ATI seemed like they were on top until i saw some benchmarks, which nvidia then came on top, its so confusing to chose! but luckily i found this website that has an awesome ATI review and are soon to have an even better ATI Driver review. its at [im not telling you! because the PR's of this forum hate you and dont want anyone else but them to help you!], it actually helped me a whole lot!

Darn [pr's here hate ppl l;ike you 'n me so im not telling, stuff it] does not have their driver review up yet! oh well, wen it comes up i hear its gonna be freakin awesme! i cant wait i cant wait, waaaaah!

This is interesting, as many buyers will base their next purchase not on DX9 but openGL.... so ATI may not have the better buy this time around...

though keeping it to one molex is a big plus...

I do not know what to base my next purchasing decision on. I have two questions that will help determine it though.

1) Will it fit in my Shuttle XPC SN85G4?
2) How will it perform with Doom 3 and (possibly if it ever comes out) HL2?

I have always liked both companies and have owned both a Radeon 9700 Pro and a FX 5900. Currently using a 5900XT in my Shuttle box.

I just do not understand why Nvida cannot recapture the performace lead. Perhaps the failure of NV30 was/is too much to overcome. ATI it seems is not going anywhere.

Personally it's a hard choice for me between ATI X800 and Nvidia 6800.

NVIDIA 6800 PROs
Seems faster in most games. Usually older games.
Has PS/VS 3.0 support.
Could get a big performance boost once DX 9.0c is released.

NVIDIA 6800 CONs
No big improvement in new games. Ex. Far Cry
Image quality is same as FX 5950. Maybe even worse.
Cheats are inevitible.

ATI X800 PROs
Temporal AA means faster and better AA.
Image quality seems to have improved.
Normal mapping compression improves next generation game speeds. Ex. Far Cry
Doesn't require 1 PCI slot.
Doesn't need 400w+ power supply. Almost as 9800 XT.

ATI X800 CONs
Not a clear winner in performance.
No PS/VS 3.0 support.
PS/VS 2.0b is not a standard.
Nvidia Fanboys still hate ATI no matter what.

I guess this time it depends who offers the cheaper product. Seriously who buys $500 video cards anyway?

So, I have this problem. I have an old video card, Geforce3 TI 500. I was wondering what you folks thing I should get next; once i saw the Geforce 6800 benchmarks, I was in awe. Now that ATi has shadered those dreams, I will probably go for the ATi800pro and OC it.

System is P4 2.26 512 RAM.

Thanks
-K

"www.absoluteinsight.net" has a huge ATI driver article coming tomorrow so you can see what the best is to use if your going with the X800, i found it really helpful! I have it all planned out now, hehehe

Wow 200 Comments. Have not seen that since we dropped AG's. BTW, I'm post #200 :)

Heh... looks like ATI has taken down the "Ruby" demo. Maybe their servers got buried? LOL

Edit: It's back now, looks like they were still futzing around with the layout of the site as of this morning. I was actually kind of hoping that it would be runnable on 9xxx hardware (albeit at reduced frame rates)... download page says it requires an X800 though. Oh well.

Hey, I just have to know, after learning all you have about these cards, do you believe that the 6800 Ultra will eventually win this battle because of their more advanced technology or do you believe ATI has its prorities in line and that the speeds of these cards will be obsolete by the time we need this technology? Also, the 6x may look better than the 6800's 8xS, but the 6800 can go up to 16x... is that just overkill? Is the 6x enough?
Thank you for your time and i would really appreciate it if you write me back.

I use my server Dual Xp's Iwill for mostly storage, Using cheap Sata drives, and Promise controllers running on 66mhz pci slots which are the Third and ouch First cpi slots.... so thats the only reason i wouldnt want to block a pci slot....

But question if anyones got ideas ?

My duals are at 2.4ghz , Iwill mpx2 , would a X800 Pro be any good ? or should i plan to build a new athlon64 system ?
Currently running a 9700Pro on her.

Question to all of you who b1tch and m0an about 2 slot video cards. Just how many PCI slots do you actually use? I'm looking at my nice big primary box, and I'm using two slots, one for a sound card, and my GF4 4200 sitting in the AGP slot. 9 times out of 10 the mobo is wired such that the PCI slot next to the AGP slot shares an IRQ, that's reason enough for me to never use that slot anyways.

So, you've got a vid card, sound, ethernet, raid of some form, and a tv tuner... what else are you tying your slots up with that you need every last one?

As a 9800 Pro owner these cards are giving me the upgrade itch but i wont be fooled this go around. When HL2 and Doom3 FINALLY come out i will buy an updated version of one of these cards...

Let quake3 die in peace people. Let it die in peace :P.

I find it funny that they bench @ 1600x1200 4xAA and 16XAF or whatever the hell they do nowadays for these cards - it seems crazy to me.

Am I the only person who doesn't use these features?
Honestly, I've got a Radeon 9800 Pro, 1gb of PC3200 and a P4 3.0 - If I enable AA on ANY GAME in 1024 or higher it's too slow for me!?!?

I don't honestly think my threshold is that high and or demanding - and I didn't notice any REAL graphics difference which struck me as must have.

PLUS if you buy a 500$ video card, get used to AA / AF for 18 months then some new games come out which look great on your card but only smooth without AA / AF it effectively "forces" you to upgrade AGAIN because you've become used to AA / AF and can't live without it (I've heard people saying that, it's not just a theory of mine - I spose it makes sense)

Personally honestly I'd like this (at most)

1280x960
STUPIDLY AMAZINGLY RIDICULOUSLY high resolution NICE quality textures
All those cool shader effects and stuff
No AA or AF
Lots of polygons.

That's all I need - lots of poly's, lots of texture detail and lots of cool shader stuff on the images - I'd much prefer 3x texture detail than 4xAA or some wank :(

Anyone agree?

What's the current state of ATI's 3d acceleration support under Linux?

I'm also nearing the time to upgrade my GF4 Ti4200. ATI's latest offerings are looking more appealing than nvidia's (we'll see when the mid-range cards are released) but multiplatform support for me is a must.

Last time I looked into it, 3D Linux support from ATI was still spotty. No Linux drivers = no sale. FWIW, the nvidia linux drivers have worked flawlessly with Enemy Territory, UT2003, and whatever else I've thrown at it.

As Joe Pesci would say in the movie "Casino", ATI got runned over by NVIDIA.

Of interesting note, Driverheaven overclocked their x800xt in their review. They managed to get a core clock of555mhz compared to the orginal core clock 520mhz. The ram they overclocked to 600/1200mhz from 560/1120mhz. Being a high end chip, those seem to be somewhat decent overclocks. This could however filter down to the Pro version, and even though it only has 12 pipes, could be a very nice overclocker

"Even if you're a fan boy/girl of a particular brand, there's no denying that, for the most part, ATI's Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition is the speed leader. While it's very close throughout most of the race, the X800 XT Platinum Edition just comes out on top more often. It's important to remember that NVIDIA's cards offer full SM30 support and FP32. It's just that games with these features won't be out for quite some time.

A more important consideration is one you may not expect. To run both the GeForce 6800 Ultra and Ultra Extreme, NVIDIA recommends a 480W power supply (PSU). While I'm lucky enough to have very high-end stuff and a power supply that powerful, these things are not common. I looked through the May issues of popular computer gaming magazines, and not a single "über extreme ultra high-end maximum" gaming machine came with anything over a 425W PSU. If you've got an OEM machine like a standard HP, Dell, Gateway, or other "mass-market" brand, chances are you have a 350W PSU at best, and it may be proprietary, meaning you can't just replace it on your own. This means that you may be required to update your PSU along with your video card, a task that many haven't the first clue how to do. In contrast, both the new Radeon X800 cards have a recommended PSU of 300W, as does the GeForce 6800 GT.

Additionally, both the 6800 Ultra and Ultra Extreme are double-wide cards, and both require two molex connectors. (A molex connector is one of those white power cords like the one plugged into your hard drive and optical drive.) Even then, both cards require two separate feeds; a y-connector that splits one molex in to two will not suffice. Again, in contrast, both new Radeons and the GeForce 6800 GT have one molex connector and are single space cards.

For many (especially those with small form factor cases that are all the rage), such power and space considerations make their next video card purchase a no-brainer."
-GameSpy-

That huge link tells it all....

I'd say it's a draw. nVidia and Ati have both shown their own innovations, nVidia with support for new technology, an architecture designed to deliver 32FP for shaders, etc., while Ati has shown tremendous ability to improve an existing chip with highly innovative architecture that allows for boosted performance even with advanced textures and things like AA.
I am going to sit out this round though because I as well as many others will not make the plunge until both Doom III and HL2 are on shelves.
Ati has the slight edge when it comes to current high-end games, but this lead can be reduced by improved drivers on nVidia's part (hopefully without IQ-reducing optimizations), so the case isn't closed quite yet. nVidia's support of SM 3.0 may seem like an unnecessary feature for quite some time, but as I recall the updated Crytech engine that will be featured in an upcoming revamp of FarCry uses true displacement mapping. Yes, I do realize most of the new features are SM 2.0, but displacement mapping is specifically a 3.0 feature, which is why he (The Crytech dude at the NV40 Launch Event) clearly stated that what was being shown was 2.0 & 3.0 effects. The R420 uses N-shaders for virtual displacement mapping, and it just doesn't support all the new effects we'll be seeing. At the same time HL2 will be using image enhancing features supported only by Ati.
So the decision is a tough one, although if I had to make the decision right now, I'd go with Ati simply because of their lower power requirements, and their support for HD resolutions. Although I hope an nVidia card-maker decides to go with an external power solution rather than eating up two molex connectors.
Furthermore, I hope the R500 will be out around the time HL2 ships. With its support for SM 3.0, it might have everything I need (performance, IQ, & feature support) to truly be happy with my choosing them.
"I think the main feature that people are looking at is the 3.0 shader model and I think that’s a valid question. What we felt was that in order to really appeal to the developers who are shipping volume games in ’04 Shader 2.0 would be the volume shader model of use. We do think it will be important down the road."
I think I'll wait for you down the road, Dave.

Hate to burst your bubble but, Doom3 and HL2 (If it ever comes out this year) will really push the envople. I don't think even the 6800U can handle these games at 1600x1200 at max details with a playible framerate. 1280x1024 is a more realistic max resolution for this generation of cards and CPUs.

Sorry, it's meant to be a reply to #43 :(

Are there any new 2-D features or windows GUI features on these cards/drivers?

Well I was bored so I decided to add up all the scores. I excluded the aquamark though (I prob should have since it really isn't that synthetic right?) and the synthetic benchmarks. I also added the min and average frames together on prince of persia and painkiller (comments?).

6800 Ultra Extreme = 6492.31 total FPS
6800 Ultra = 6378.74 total FPS
X800 XT Platinum = 5957.3 total FPS

Other things go into a decision as well, prob would be best to add up the performance on the rez you use (like for me my monitor wont let me do anything past 1280x1024 at a decent refresh rate). I donno I just thought it was interesting is all, no need to flame, but please correct what you see is wrong.

I am pretty sure I added everything correctly....

WOW! New Graphs! This is awesome! :D

I'm only going to worry about the price when Doom3/HL2 are gold and I'm building a system.
If things go poorly there will be another generation of cards out before this happens.

Am I the only one who is seriously looking at the 6800 GT as the optimum price/performance winner? I was thinking of an Ultra but the power req. were swaying me to the R420. But now that I've seen numbers for the single molex GT at 4 bills I'm sold.

Sorry about any typos. The first revision up is pretty rough, but I am working on it. :)

This is what I get for being sick today.........late read, but excellent review.
Now I am just waiting for the AIW, DUAL DVI, DUAL HDTV Tuner version.

I sometimes think we make sh*t up just to argue about stuff.

Heh. You mean like some of the crap in this thread?

Did anybody see the [H]ard|OCP review? Their method seems to conclude even more in the favor of the X800's rather than the 6800's. I kinda like the way they go about the benchmarks too since it more matches the way you would use your video card at home - highest settings that are playable. It puts the old games that get 100+ FPS in a better perspective.