i rather like the gfx card idea, slap some more transistors on the GPU for sound, let the thing render to uber-fast gddr3 (memory isnt the limit anymore; and with turbocache, you wont need the full 256MB anyway) and put a daughtercard on it for your audio jacks/codecs (like dfi and abit are doing)

this also opens up a BIG door for an attack on ATi sacred ground, the AIW cards, by having a tuner, sound, and gpu on one card it eliminates the patch cables, being nvidia means multiple companies will make them (i hope), it also means an HDTV tuner may be possible

i wanna see the look on their faces if nvidia makes a personal cinema card with a built-in sound card

How about just a PCI-E 1x slot, and bundle it with the boards?

I have a feeling Nvidia will be bringing us some more interesting things on the front of bouncing and propogating sound.

There was a paper a while back about using the GPU for sound processing. I'm thinking that nvidia is probably going this route. http://www.bionicfx.com/. Given the fact that work has already been done and it's in software, Nvidia probably just needs to write a driver abstraction layer, and probaby create a break out card out actually get the sound out.

If this is a video / sound card in one, I won't be fucking impressed.

I'm not buying a GF 9900 ultra for 600$ US just to get 5.1 and "bonus" decent 5.1 sound.

If they have a standalone and it's also FREE with the video sure but video only = no, ... what if ATI kick ass with their opposiing card.

mmmmmmmmm

I too would prefer a discreet card. I might very well opt for an ATI video card, thank you very much.

SoundStorm2?! Hmmm, the bitter pill of the Bush re-election doesn't taste so bad now!

Here's to hoping they release a standalone PCIe x1 card, since rumor has it that Creative will be releasing the Sound Blaster Zenith next year with PCIe and Dolby Digital Live support.

I for one, do not want a sound/video card in combination. If a company makes a great sound solution but a poor video solution at any given generation, or a good video solution but an average sound solution, I'm stuck with either not choosing either piece of hardware, or choosing a video card but disabling its onboard sound and asking why I paid the extra cash (assuming I can disable it). If nVidia offers SS2 as both an on-the-mainboard solution AND as a discrete sound card I can put with any sound board, I like it. This way, SoundStorm 2 could be marketed much as the GeForce chips are, to any company willing to build a board. It would also offer the option for a high-end cards, if a company was willing to put quality DACs on them.

PCI has enough bandwidth for real time DD encoding. There were rumors that it didn't, but nVidia never confirmed them. Realistically, there's no way that PCI couldn't have enough. 8 uncompressed 24-bit 192khz audio channels only add up to 36 MB/s. SoundStorm does substantially less than that.

Soundstorm 2 as part of a USB 2.0 internal card reader!!!

I'd far rather see a discrete PCI-E x1 card, than integrated onto the graphics card.

For one, I upgrade graphics cards rather more often than I upgrade soundcards, and don't particularly want to pay the price premium for an 'extra' soundcard every time.

For another, once you put two DVI ports onto a graphics card backplate, there's not a lot of room left for all the ports that soundcards need! :)

Unless, of course, they go for double-width cards as standard ...

Or even a low-profile x1 soundcard that would dovetail with a x16 graphics card, sitting underneath the exhaust vents from the graphics card's heatsink?

Digital Life article is pretty good (and in english).

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/nvidianforce/

Looks like pre-DD processing (mixing, 3D, DSP effects, etc.) is done in system memory by the APU directly, then fed to DD encoder which (speculation) may need a pass in mem as well to stay a block or two ahead. All processing is "24-bit internally" but I dont know if that means 24-bits in the buffers, or just 24-bit in the registers (ala 3dfx), so its hard to say what hits mem back and forth. The nVidia HT "Packet Timing" stuff probably makes this work at all. If thats true, then SS might actually need HT and its own hacked mem controller to work well (and cheaply) and maybe a reason why if PCI was not happy.

Who wants SoundStorm or a $180 6600 GT with a HT interface? :)

I do! Scr*w PCI-Express :)

For whatever its worth, here is a nVidia whitepaper on its APU:

http://www.nvidia.com/attach/7136

From a regugitated nVidia docs:
http://www.inqst.com/articles/nforce/article.htm

Notice the render in memory part....
And remember soundstorm was born out of the unified memory arch. xbox.

nForce’s APU: An Industry Leading Audio Processor

The Xbox audio processor is widely viewed as being the best audio processor to be used in a gaming console. Not only is the Xbox’s audio highly sophisticated, it requires a minimum of CPU resources -- in gaming consoles the audio processor must pull its own load.

The nForce has the same Dolby Digital 5.1 audio engine native to the Xbox. The nForce APU (Audio Processor Unit) is a multi-DSP unit capable of four billion operations per second. It can simultaneously process 192 2D voices and 64 3D voices -- all fully hardware accelerated. Like the Xbox itself, the APU was designed with DirectX 8 in mind. This full DirectSound hardware implementation supports occlusions, reflections, reverberations, Doppler shifts, and other real-time hardware accelerated sound effects. The APU supports full DSL2 accelerations.

The APU also enjoys benefits from having HyperTransport paired with the IGP’s generous memory interface. With so much bandwidth available to it, the APU can render effects directly and reliably to system memory.

While a few existing high-end sound cards provide hardware enhanced Dolby Digital decoding, only the nForce provides real-time Dolby Digital AC-3 encoding certified by Dolby Labs. This unique capability means that the APU can encode a DirectSound compliant game in real-time into a 5.1 Dolby Digital stream to be sent to an external Dolby Digital decoder for playback through a home theater system.

For access to some of the APU’s more sophisticated features, NVIDIA will be providing a breakout box similar to what is bundled with high-end consumer level audio cards such as the “Sound Blaster Live! Platinum 5.1”.

The history of integrated audio is a sad one. Up until now, nearly all integrated sound solutions have been feeble software driven engines. Not only do these implementations commonly slow even the fastest gaming rigs by ten percent or more, but the quality of sound and the flexibility of sound effects are executed to the very lowest standards.

The nForce makes a jarring break from this legacy by providing audio capability that is comparable to the most expensive consumer level add-in cards. By comparison, all other integrated sound solutions look pathetically underpowered. If the nForce achieves significant market penetration, the integrated APU could pose a real threat to the future of standalone audio cards.

Krogoth255 - What I read said they cancelled them both.

Ahah! So this is why nVidia canceled the NV50.

I believe the new soundstorm will come in pill form first, followed soon after by liqui-gels. If the Inquirer is to be believed.

Get an M-Audio Revo.

I too hope it's a descrete card. I think the potential is there to make some money, considering it's really only Creative with add-in cards.

It's like deja vu... only 10 years later
http://www.firingsquad.com/features/nvidiahistory/page2.asp

NVIDIA's first product wasn't only about graphics. The NV1 also integrated a playback-only sound card, something quite popular at the time. With 32 concurrent audio channels of 16-bit CD-quality audio and hardware phase shifting for simplistic 3D sound, the NV1 was actually more impressive than many first generation PCI sound cards.

Audio and video on the same card in PCIe? I LIKE! If there aren't problems with noise, I'm all for it!

...the new SoundStorm "will come in a way that you won't expect."

And the article directly below this one is about Nvidia graphics technology being used in the PS3. Uhh, can we connect the dots here? Nvidia provided Soundstorm for the Xbox, I'm pretty sure they will provide an updated version for the PS3, as surround sound has been the biggest limitation of the current PS2, with games only being able to support Dolby Surround, and in some cases DTS.

Toasty's 2005 Nvidia prediction: Brand spankin' new Soundstorm technology in the PS3.

It's official.

I just hope whatever it has will be consistant between manufacturers, and a ton cheaper than creative. if anyone can compete with creative, I'de say nVidia can with their market hold and history in this reletivly un-touched market.

I really hope they don't go with integration to a gfx card or mobo, a fully featured discrete sound card would be preferable for me

I hope this one isn't as dissapointing as Soundstorm. As far as integrated solutions go it was the best but it didn't deliver half of what it promised and continues till this day to have problems.

Huang said, cryptically, that the new SoundStorm "will come in a way that you won't expect."

It's coming on a floppy disk.

I think #1 is correct... combine the sound processing with the GPU.

And if you're really clever you can even share processing between the graphics and the audio silicon.. A pixel pipe is a big floating point DSP. What does Soundstorm need for encoding 5.1 Dolby with greater than 16 bit precision? A big floating point DSP.

Personally I'd prefer to see this as a stand alone PCI or PCI Express card rather than a component intergraded with the graphics card. Doing so lowers upgrade costs when you don't want to upgrade everything.

It would also be more of an attack on Creative's marketshare as an add in card than it would be as an intergraded component. Therefore forcing Creative to innovate (particularly in their drivers).

All I can say is I hope they fix the audio drivers this time...

i hope and pray nvidia finds success with this, just to crush Creative and their crappy sound blaster drivers once and for all!

Sounds to me like Nvidia is going to have SoundStorm2 built into future graphics cards. Would make sense because PCI-E 16X would offer enough bandwidth for Dobly Digital Encoding.

Only problem is that I really want it as a add-on card or built into my motherboard.

I also hope they don't charge an arm or a leg for SS2 in their graphics cards.