What started as an editorial jest has been taken by the Maccies as an assault on their worldview. It's the same sort of response we get when we post things here in support of President Bush, or against the democrats. This is amusing and disturbing at the same time.

Tech Report is bagging Apple and their products?
I say : good for them! I'm not an Apple fan either!

Why?

(1) False advertising = (initially) Claiming they have THE fastest 64bit CPU.
=> Examples :
(a) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15015
(b) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3797261.stm

You now see Apple have dropped this. In Australia, the rules and penalties are stricter and harsher. I never saw them advertise having the fastest 64bit CPU in the first place, here in Australia...They did say it was a fast CPU...Not THE fastest.(Which is far different from the US ad, saying they had THE fastest).

(2) Apple says their Mac OSX is "Unix-like".
=> Because IT IS UNIX! Why do you think its better than Windows! Why do you think its far more resistent to malware and such?!
=> It uses technologies that you can download for FREE off the web!
example : Its network stack is taken from FreeBSD...You can download the latest variant of FreeBSD and burn on two CDs.
=> Apple just slapped everything together with a pretty GUI and charge a sum of money from it.
=> They take technologies from open-source communities and don't contribute in any way back. (typical behaviour expected is to support the group you've taken from by either some form of donation to help the project)...Apple is like "Ha ha ha, I've taken the stuff you've worked hard on for years, repackaged it and selling to gullible Apple customers (sheep) at a price. They aren't even aware they can get some of this technology for FREE...Hahahahahaha! We're making $$$$$$ off lots of sheep out there!"

(3) People say Apple hardware is more reliable.
=> That's funny. Because all Apple did is use PC parts and slapped them together with PowerPC architecture and add their own custom drivers!

(4) Apple tricksy the weak minded and unaware.
=> If I re-wrote FreeBSD down to a level where it performed just as well or even BETTER than Mac OSX but runs only on x86/AMD64/EMT64 architecture, and gave it away for free, would everyone go for that? (including apps that do things better than Apple's)

(5) Apple punish those who reveal things about Apple's products.
=> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18923
=> http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/01/05/think/index.php

If you know too much, get ready for the legal onslaught from Apple.

(6) Apple charges higher for products than what their really worth.
Example : Here in Australia, the difference between a 256MB stick and 512MB stick of DDR SDRAM is about $40 to $60 Aussie inc. GST (Price varies from brand to brand, but I looked at A-Data, KingMax, Kingston, Geil, Corsair, OCZ and a few other no-names to get a rough idea)...

Apple Australia charges AUD$120 for upgrading the Mac mini from 256MB (default) to 512MB DDR SDRAM.

This is the same with notebook hdds they're using on the Mac mini. (I assume they are, given the size of the Mac mini).
Upgrade from 40GB to 60GB (Apple Australia) => $80 Aussie
Upgrade from 40GB to 60GB (at a typical online Aussie computer store => $40 to $60 depending on spin-rate (rpm) and brand.

I'm agreeing with #86 (PLASTIC SURGEON) about Apple in general...If anyone can put a bunch of PC bits together in a stylish case, coupled with a solid OS and apps that "just work" for the gullible "point and click" crowd...You can sell anything!

Heck, if Apple can do it, why can't anyone else? :)
There's plenty of sheep out there, why not make lamb chops out of them?

hilarious stuff.. i love how apple lovers used to believe they had the air of sophistication about them... and more importantly how they continute to carry this feeling and use it to justify EVERYTHING apple comes out with.. it's just ridiculous now... it's just like a super-republican or democrat.. they don't even care what the politician believes in.. whatever they say goes because they're associated with the 'group' of preference...

i think the ipod is a terrible rip off and every time i see one i'm reminded of how quickly this world is deteriorating to the toils of marketing, hype, and 'fashion'.. whatever the hell that is... it's as sad as watching president bush get re-elected..

the shuffle is EVEN worse... like everyone else has said on here a million times before.. the bang for the buck just isn't there people.. if you like white that much, wrap your sandisk player with a piece of paper ffs

It would be nice if TechReport would do an actual review of a product before making statements like this that make the assumption that anyone interested in buying an iPod Shuffle is either incompetent or having the wool pulled over their eyes unknowingly. It is disingenuous and hurts the good reputation I have of this site I feel. If I wanted to read a biased viewpoint I would go elsewhere. I come to TR because I feel they try to be objective about their reviews and base their opinions on the facts as they see them to be through the course of their many reviews.

Saying your not a Mac hater just because you like the Mac Mini is like me saying I'm not a Republican hater just because I happen to like Arnold Schwartznegger. The exception does not prove the trend wrong.

But seriously, why don't you guys try reviewing some Apple product? Costs money to review? What?

Apple certainly has made overblown PR stunt claims in the past and present at times, but people don't seem to mind it when other companies make outrageous claims like "The safest Windows ever" for WinXP (my opinion: WinXP "sucks less" and is generally ok, but by no means "safe"). Everytime TR posts something regarding Apple it seems to have a negative slant typically, or at best it has an air about it like the person doesn't believe that something from Apple could possibly be good.

I happen to use both platforms and I see the strengths and weaknesses of each daily.

Anyways opinion pieces like this do nothing to make TR better I think. You guys can do lots better and I think you know it.

I think the Shuffle is a very clever idea.

If the interface needed is too small to be practical, then removing it entirely is something of a stroke of genius. User interfaces (and interactions in general) are all about expectations. If you have a screen interface, you expect to use it and enjoy using it. Remove the interface and people will just click on the buttons until they find the song they want.

It is important to remember that the Shuffle is not hard-drive based, and therefore can only store a small number of songs.

In any case, I would still need to try it out to see if their idea works, but I really think they thought 'outside the box' on this one.

I don't see any reason for the Macolytes to make a song and dance over this (other than the fact that they're macoyltes)

The shuffle is simple, there's really nothing especially advantageous about the device. The user interface is not revolutionary, having no LCD is a big minus, replacing the battery does not look easy (might not even be possible without fscking things up), what does it have to make itself stand out? Price? According to that Shuffle vs Sandisk article it isnt even cheaper than the competition that has more features? (http://davesipaq.com/articles/iPOD_Shuffle_Sandisk_MP3.html **Cheers for the link Hellsbellboy)

One thing I'm not clear on is whether you need software to transfer files onto the shuffle, personally I feel being able to transfer files to a flash drive without any special software is critical. If I had a flash mp3 player I'd want it to double as a file donkey, no question. If the shuffle can't even do that then it's a waste of money. I got the impression that the sandisk could transfer files without the aid of any specialised software, please correct me if I'm wrong. Actually one of those Sandisk players is starting to look pretty sweet.

As far as Damages objectivity, there's not a thing wrong with what he stated. He simply pointed out how Apples marketing manages to put a positive spin on the lack of a feature, and then that people actually fall for it! How is this any different from the ATI or Nvidia marketing that we're so used to seeing tilt the facts to their own products benefit? I don't see anyone disproving the point he made, only people crying 'wah damage said mean things about Apple boohoo'

I have an ancient RioVolt SP100, a CD-based mp3 player. Its capacity - 700 MB on a disc - is comparable to 512MB-1GB players. The main unit usually goes in my backpack when I use it, and is always in a protective case that hides all the buttons and the display, as well. The little remote that comes with it is a simple piece, with play/pause, stop, skip forward/backward and volume buttons and no display at all. I use the remote almost exclusively, hardly ever going to the main unit (due to the carrying case's bad design), but thanks to a clever little trick, the remote is more than sufficient for navigating through 8 to 10 albums. The track skip buttons also double as album skip buttons if you press once, then press again and hold them down instead of just a single press. Implementing similar functionality on the Shuffle would make it a lot easier to use. Actually, it is entirely possible that Apple has in fact done this, but since I haven't come across a thorough review I cannot get confirmation.

edited for clarity

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/25/apple_cuts_mini_memory_price/

Can anyone recommend an good alternative to TR? I never knew TR was such a Childish Basher page.

I have been visiting here regularly for years. I guess I must have missed the past Apple stories because the last two I saw here were quite pathetic. Nothing more than pure trolling. The Apple Shuffle Sham? Come on Guys.

I don't own anything from Apple and I wont be getting either a Mini or Shuffle as they don't fit my needs. I look at electronics pretty much the same who ever builds it, so when I see this kind of crap that I usually see trolls engaging in on Usenet I really have to wonder at the motivation. Bored?

I find the professionalism quite lacking.

Before automatically jumping to Apples defence perhaps you should consider the assertion Damage was making; are people going to be buying the Shuffle because it is the best product, or are they going to buy it because of Apples branding/marketing? Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see the answer to that question.

So instead of attacking the point Damage made you'll cry him down for Apple bashing? It's just like andurin said, where's all the people defending the phantom console?

why does something necessarily have to be one way or the other?

anyone who doubts that "the reality distortion field" that Damage refers to exists has not been paying attnetion.

Apple has some good products and it has some bad products like any other company, but I cannot think of ANY other company that makes its outlandish claims, or that has such a powerful cult-like following.

iTunes was lauded as the best windows application ever created.
the G5 was heralded as the world's first 64 bit desktop computer
OSX called the greatest operating system ever made
and here is an excerpt from their laptop page;
Lightning-fast graphics
With twice the amount of memory — 64MB of DDR SDRAM, to be exact — now included with its NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 processor, the new 12-inch PowerBook G4 offers a noticeable boost in graphics performance.

anyone who knows what an fx5200 is will find that an insult to their intelligence.

All companies try to do a good job of marketing their products, but I can't think of any other company that tries to distort reality to this degree, and i think it upsets people.

As a graphic designer i was very upset in the g3/g4 days when apple acouldn't scale up the speeds and the technology fell far behind the rest of the industry, yet they still claimed to be the fastest and charged 3,000 dollars for their machines. It's what made me leave apple to begin with.

At the moment they have a very strong product line out, with the mac mini, the new flat imac, the different flavors of ipod and a competitive desktop. The only area in which they are lacking might be their laptops compared to the Dothan and mobile a64.

I like apple, I have always liked apple, but a lot of what they do and say is ridiculous and should be addressed as such. Doing so does not make you a mac basher anymore than laughing at intel for having to swallow their BS about clockspeed makes you an intel basher. Damage both called apple out for something that was pretty much a load of marketing crap, but then felt the need to say by the way, apple has other good products to try to stem the tide of incensed mac lovers.

it's a bummer not only that he felt the need to do that, but furthermore that it seemed to be totally ignored. . . .

I love it, someone posts an EDITORIAL and they're getting bashed for having bias. Isn't that the point of an editorial, pointing out your opinion?! I agree, bias should stay out of reviews and tech articles. Editorials on the other hand, thats the defacto sanctioned output for opinion at otherwise 'bias free' content sources.

I guess I should wiegh in on this discussion. As far as I can tell, Scott did take a quick swipe at Apple because they turned the Shuffle's lack of interface into a marketing ploy. However, it seems to me that the gist of his post is critical of the student's comment on the user interface. And really, Scott's argument makes sense - the guy doesn't think other interfaces are good enough, so he switches to a product with no interface? That doesn't make sense to me either, Scott.

In addition, I think that his statement obviously has to be viewed as an educated opinion. None here can deny that Scott knows what he's talking about - he has the technical knowledge and business sense to keep this site going. This was not a review of the product, as Thresher said. That being true, I would like to point out that when reviews are done here at TR, a section is always present that says "if you have questions about our testing methods, discuss them in our forums."

And what of the Phantom console? I don't see anybody questioning a site's objectivity for saying things about this product, with no reviews being done. It does seem that only when the comments involve Apple do the threads and posts start flying.

I've used PC and Macs in my day, and I'll vouch for both. iPods and iRivers too. Scott's comments weren't an indictment on the product so much as an indictment on those who readily champion those products because of blind loyalty. IMHO.

I love the smell of Mac Bashing in the morning.

/hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha/ *rofl*

nice to know some things never change....

I really don't know what all the fuss is about when it comes to the shuffle. Its simple really why the people who like it, like it, and why those who don't don't.

The shuffle is fashionable, easy to use(and I mean stupid easy), and it's an ipod. It's a status/cool thing. 9 of 10 kids on the University campus I'm on that have Mp3 players have iPods. The general public doesn't care that you can get a sandisk player that has more features + a screen for a cheaper price. Its ugly. As for the Shuffle, its an iPod, its simple, its PRETTY, and does the job of a basic MP3 player. Most people are quite happy to follow the flock *shock*.

Those who don't like the Shuffle, don't want to or are tech savy enough to know what's good for their money. Unfortunately, Apple's customer base is full of people that like it because it "looks pretty".

Anyway, I'm off to find my own shuffle for my iBook. ;)

Anytime a Mac/Apple story hits is when TR degenerates into fanboy wars. Kinda sad. :'(

This is like the slashdot story on the ipod : "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

Of course TR is not antimac, but the other idiot reviewer posted a mini mac story comparing it to a user assembled PC used an Antec 3000 case. Good work TR!!!! It'd be nice if you guys understood a thing or two about what real people (ie. not tech dorks) like and want in products.

Heres why people want the shuffle :
1. price
2. size
3. it works (unlike creative crap)
4. itunes and ipod heritage.

Heres why they may not want to buy it :
1. no screen
2. itunes only interface to device

Whew! Finally read through all of this!

Well it looks like everyone got in a huff because of an opinion. Welcome to the Internet! Everyone has a voice! If Scott doesn't like it, he doesn't like it. End of story. No amount of "Creative sucks, so Apple must be cool!" will change his mind. No amount of "I hate iTunes, burn Apple at the stake!" will change any Mac lover's mind. I would strongly suggest just discussing the merits of the product rather than going around with personal attacks. On that note:

The iPod shuffle is, really, no more than an mp3 player with 5 buttons. Even its own little blurb on Apple's website doesn't say anything about it THAT ANY OTHER PLAYER CAN'T OR WON'T DO:

Apple:
"Time to mix things up. Meet iPod shuffle, the unpredictable new iPod. What will it play next? Can it read your mind? Can it read your moods? Load it up. Put it on. See where it takes you. Choose from pocket-size 512MB or 1G models starting at $99(1) and surprise yourself."

Two sentences can sum this up. It can shuffle your tunes. No really, it's small and it can shuffle. NOW BUY ME!!

Even Apple admits it's a trendy thing:

"...iPod shuffle weighs as little as a car key and makes a tuneful fashion statement. "
...and those signature white earbud headphones tell the world you love to listen in style. "

Buy it for looks. Buy it for white earbuds.
So really, what does it do better than other players? I really want to know. Bottom line it doesn't. The Rio Nitrus is a 1.5GB player that sells for less than 140 (although this is a HDD based player, so feel free to toss this out I guess). I use a muvo nx for the gym, and the interface is just fine. A little jog dial for next/back song and volume. The LCD screen is good because I can do two things: a) check battery life and b.) Change EQ settings and player settings.
So, I ask again, what does it do better?
And if anyone says interface, let me first say he who has used the device cast the first stone :).

Geez calm down mac dudes. The staff are people and they are free to post their opinions if they choose, (just as you would if you had a site of your own). Scott in no way reported false data or tried skewing the truth. It's clear that this is his opinion and judgement on the product, he's not trying to pass this off as real news. Attacking and threating to leave just because someone posted something you don't agree with is childish. Grow up and stop letting such petty things anger you so much.

wow.
lots of shiny parts being waved about.

this just in, Phantom consoles really arent anything special. Its just a crappy PC. *waits for the throng of Phantom lovers to swarm TR and wave about their shiny pieces*
.. oh thats right.. only Apple zealots get that uptight.

Havin read the newspost and the first 20 comment entries I was expecting nothing but mac bashing and I got it, no wonder with such a subjective newspost.
I read lots of comments on Toms hardware guide in the past of him being an intel fan but this newspost is AGAIN another instance were TR goes to live up to it's anti-mac status. I expect better of TR.
The little excuse 'By the way, lest you think I am just an anti-Mac partisan' also just don't cut it.

Its significantly cheaper than just about any other flash player for the storage size. Its also significantly smaller. Apple makes no effort at all to hide the fact that it has no screen. It is also one of like 3 or 4 flash players that can directly plug into your PC without a cord attachment. And it charges via USB as well. Pretty convinient if you ask me. Besides, at 512 to 1 gig, you wont have THAT much music on it... I'd probably use upwards of half the space for non-music storage.

If you have a problem with it, don't buy it. Bitching about it just makes you look like a anti-mac crybaby...

Damage, I've taken a while to think about this before making any real comments, but I have to agree with some of the remarks made here.

My only complaint is that you bagged on this product without reviewing it. Had you actually taken the time to use the product and still found it lacking I don't think I would have an issue at all with your remarks. But the fact is you are assuming that Apple is disguising the lack of an LCD by playing up the random feature, while it may be that Apple did the marketing analysis and found that people don't NEED the LCD on a smaller MP3 player because they play songs randomly. Apple took the behavior and built a marketing campaign around it rather than saw a defect and tried to hide it with a clever marketing move.

By making remarks like this, you put your objectivity in question, something I would think a hardware review site would find very valuable. Tomshardware has never really recovered from some of the missteps he made with hardware vendors. People automatically doubt his reviews because they wonder if the vendor paid for it. Is it worth losing credibility for a $100 product? I doubt it.

Your remarks carry weight. People assume objectivity on this site because you have established yourselves as being honest reviewers. But now I have to wonder if you purposefully bag a vendor simply because you don't like them, their sales person, the distributor, or whatever.

Review the product. If the lack of an LCD bothers you after using it, state it. But don't insinuate that something is simply a marketing trick without trying it. Your reputation is on the line with every little offhanded comment like the one you made today.

Sorry if I've rambled, but this is the one tech site where I regularly participate in the community. That community has developed in part because of your reputation for fairness. I'd hate to see that reputation diminished because of a silly comment.

in response to snowdog's post.. yes, tr does have a heavy anti apple bias. i come here for the non-apple news.

they got better after a while of people calling them out on the complete lack of objectivity but its been going back to the old days now. the x86 crowd that grew up with the anti-mac sentiment cannot be convinced that anything apple produces is in any way good for technology as a whole.. and all apparently because of their hatred for the performa based macs they used in high school and because of the pro-mac crowd that used powermacs instead.

apple does some wonderful stuff and it affects the x86 world for the better (Windows 3.11 -> Windows 95 = Windows 3.11 with MacOS 7 features.. Windows 95 -> 98 = Windows 95 with MacOS 8 features)... plus their case designs have been beatiful since they released the first monitor-less mac (i'm talking about internal arrangments here, not from the outside).

no matter what apple releases, some people will find a way to focus entirely or majoritively on the negative.. this site especially.

evidence? the complete bashing of a product that TR hasn't even bothered to use.. i can't think of any other company that TR will regularly bash product's for without any sort of review first..

If the imac mini used a via or athlon xp processor TR would have loved it... too bad Apple released it.. same thing with the iPod and the iPod shuffle.

Quotes from around the net:

"It would be PREFECT for jogging!" - http://www.macuser.org.sg/yabbse/index.php?topic=19590.msg134680

"... the running strap costs $30!!!" -russellbeattie.com

"Apple's flash-based iPod shuffle isn't for everyone." -macworld.com

[snip]