Windows 8-Ball Consumer Preview

There aren’t many experiences in life more disconcerting than waking up and not knowing where you are or how you got there. I was privy to this uncomfortable experience once during college, following a late night of studying for my History of American Beverages exam. I’m feeling some serious déjà vu right about now, only this time I’ve awoken to the Windows 8 Metro interface instead of an unkempt farm field and curious geese.

This past Wednesday, Microsoft opened the flood gates on its Windows 8 Consumer Preview. I’ve been very interested to see how Microsoft would merge its desktop and mobile paradigms ever since I got my grubby mitts on a Windows Phone 7 device and discovered that, hey, this isn’t half bad. Having carried a Windows handset for the past few months, I’ve come to appreciate the quickness and ease of use provided by the Metro interface. I was pretty psyched to see how it would blend into the PC experience, so I downloaded the 64-bit Win8 image from Microsoft’s website.

Without any fancy touch-based hardware lying around, I ventured into the parts closet and dusted off an unused Core 2 Duo tower. After installing a spare hard drive, I flipped the power switch, slapped in the Windows 8 install disc, and beheld… a fish? I’m still not sure what that was all about. Perhaps it was a metaphor, foreshadowing the feelings of aquatic extrication to come.

The setup routine was pretty straightforward and intuitive. Unlike prior versions, Windows 8 asks you to cough up an awful lot of personal information to obtain a precious Live ID. The routine stops short of asking for credit cards and first-born children, but it still feels invasive. My email address was requested early on—with the promise to not send me spam. However, later in the install process, I had to uncheck a box that would automatically sign me up to receive MSN’s "special offers."

After a couple reboots and a trip to the coffee maker to refill my mug, the monitor went black. I could hear the hard drive grinding away, frantically seeking for the last few bits of information needed to launch my first Windows 8 experience. I took a long sip of my coffee. As the mug dropped out of view and the screen came back into focus, I found myself in a spartan blue field surrounded by curious colored tiles.

Coming directly from Windows 7, I honestly didn’t know what to do beyond clicking tiles to launch the corresponding applications. Right-clicking the background only brings up an option for "All Apps," which displays several cluttered columns of icons for your installed applications. Right-clicking live tiles doesn’t do much, either. You get a menu bar across the bottom of the screen with a scant few options to pin and unpin things. As a power user, Metro’s lack of immediately available options makes me see red. When options do present themselves, an inordinate amount of mousing is required to accomplish simple tasks.

Things get a little more promising as the mouse pointer finds its way to the lower left corner of the screen. Upon entering this hot-zone, an obnoxious "Start" graphic pops up, then promptly disappears if you try to center the mouse pointer on the image. This behavior feels extremely unnatural. I’m used to pop-up graphics persisting as long as the pointer remains over some part of the image. To actually click the start graphic, the cursor must remain in the bottom corner’s tiny hit zone.

Once you’ve managed to click on the Start icon, Metro fades away and reveals the familiar (albeit more angular) Windows Aero desktop with one glaring omission. Over the past 17 years, Microsoft has taught millions upon millions of people that clicking the Start button is an essential entry point to any computing activity. Surprise! It’s gone. There isn’t even an option to bring back the old girl. The registry hacks enabling a Win7-style Start menu have been even removed from this release. Instead, we’re left with an empty space on the taskbar and a usability puzzle to solve.

When I arrived at the desktop for the first time, with no desktop icons and nothing yet pinned to my taskbar, I was unsure how to proceed. Out of habit, I moused to the empty lower left corner anyway. Lo and behold, that same out-of-place Start graphic popped up and promptly disappeared the instant I left its minuscule hit zone. Clicking the graphic brought me right back to the blue, tiled, dumbed-down Metro UI. Arghh! It’s extremely disorienting and distracting to be thrust into a completely different interface every time you need to launch an application that isn’t pinned to the taskbar or desktop.

Hot spots in the corners are something of a theme in both the Metro and desktop modes. Mousing to the upper left corner will show you a small preview of the last active Metro app that was running. Holding the cursor against the screen’s edge and moving downward will eventually reveal all of one’s running Metro apps.  From here, one can left-click an app to call it up or right-click to close it.  Frustratingly, there is no option to close a Metro app when you’re actually using it.

Holding the cursor in the upper right corner of the screen reveals the "Charms bar". This bar is a list of consistent buttons, akin to what you’d find adorning the bottom of an Android device. There are dedicated buttons for Search, Share, Start, Devices, and Settings. It’s nice to have a persistent Settings button that changes context depending on the running application, but that’s a Metro-specific function. The Settings context doesn’t change in desktop mode, and the Charms bar tends to be invoked inadvertently when closing maximized windows.

In its current form, I feel Windows 8 is woefully inadequate for desktop power users. At best, the Metro tiles can be organized into groups and used like a restrictive version of Stardock’s Fences. For touch-enabled devices, however, Windows 8 will truly be able to shine. Swiping from the edges of the screen to access menus is more natural and intuitive than having to drive your mouse pointer all over creation to call up and click on options that seemingly never pop up near the cursor’s present position.

After playing with the OS, it’s painfully obvious Windows 8 should be marketed purely for touch devices. The fact that it can run regular desktop applications may suggest otherwise, but even in desktop mode, everything tries to get you back to the Metro interface as soon as possible. In fact, desktop mode feels a lot like a virtual machine, existing for those rare moments when you need to dock your tablet to a keyboard and get some meaningful work done. Admittedly, I could happily put up with the annoyances of the desktop interface if I were only using it in such short bursts.

For devices without touch capabilities, things will get a little dicey. It would be unfortunate if Microsoft decided to force this touch-optimized interface on its corporate customer base. Windows 8 feels positively schizophrenic when used with the keyboard-and-mouse combo common among business users. Unless Microsoft has plans in place to simultaneously support and promote Windows 7 as its desktop-oriented OS, a "Professional" version of Windows 8 with the ability to turn off the Metro enhancements and reinstate the Start menu would be a smart move. At this point, I wouldn’t even consider purchasing the OS for a desktop or laptop I needed to be productive using. It’s simply the wrong tool for the job.

On the plus side, even this early release appears to be extremely stable and well polished. If hardware makers build Windows 8 devices that can play to the strengths of the operating system, you might find me changing my tune regarding usability. I think it would be universally awesome to have an Atrix-style smartphone or a dockable tablet capable of running full-blown Windows programs in a pinch. There’s still much work to be done before we can all carry our computers in our pockets, but this appears to be the path Windows 8 is taking.

Comments closed
    • squeeb
    • 8 years ago

    Yea, I’m gonna have to pass.

    • Anarchist
    • 8 years ago

    Microsoft is telling us, via windows 8, the desktop computing is dead.

    • helix
    • 8 years ago

    [quote<]... a fish?[/quote<] It only makes sense if you zoom out and see the whole picture. [url<]http://i.imgur.com/BXPOv.jpg[/url<]

    • Ricardo Dawkins
    • 8 years ago

    Windows 8 is the next Windows 7…sorry for all the haters and macolytes.

    • FuturePastNow
    • 8 years ago

    Well, I sat two very different people down in front of my Win8 laptop today. The first was my friend who works in IT, who is the most computer literate person I know, and the second was my girlfriend, possibly the least computer literate person I have ready access to.

    IT guy couldn’t figure out a way past the lock screen with the mouse, but he tried Win-A and that worked. He figured he could get used to it, if he had to, since Win-R and the other commands he knows and uses still work. He doesn’t think the removal of the start button is a very good idea, though. His verdict: normal people are gonna hate it.

    Girlfriend spent several minutes trying to get past the lock screen to the login prompt. I’m not sure what key she eventually hit, it wasn’t Win-A, but maybe Windows took pity on her. At the Start Screen, the first couple of apps she tried to open asked for Microsoft Account logins; no fun to be had there. Then she opened the camera app, which she didn’t want, so I let her figure out how to close it.

    I tried to give her a hint, that she’s dealing with an interface designed for a touchscreen. That just caused her to touch the screen, which didn’t work very well as it’s not a touchscreen. Eventually she noticed that the mouse cursor changes at the top of the screen, and was able to drag the app window off to the side, pinning it onto the right third of the screen. Then she got up and walked away. Her verdict: normal person hates it.

    This is not going to be pretty for Microsoft.

      • kizzmequik_74
      • 8 years ago

      That lock screen is irritating on at least a couple of levels: for one, it doesn’t tell you how to unlock, and the upward swipe/click and drag needed feels counter-intuitive (coming from an Android/iOS perspective). Would it have killed Microsoft to put a “swipe upward to unlock” notification somewhere there?

      Funny, my girlfriend had a similar experience with the app pinning, only she didn’t up and walk away, and instead angrily instructed me to fix it. Naturally, I had no clue.

    • yogibbear
    • 8 years ago

    I haven’t got the consumer preview installed or anything, but has anyone tried sharing their desktop (like if you were doing a conference call) and could comment on Windows8 -> Windows 8 desktop sharing and what happens when you switch from a .ppt to whatever sharing application you are using and then to windows explorer to find other related excel spreadsheets / photos etc. ?

    Also what happens when you share Windows 8 -> Windows 7 ? Any quirks?

    I just want to know if metro pops up during any of these attempts and if it is as jarring as I imagine it being for the person on the other end.

    • LoneWolf15
    • 8 years ago

    I installed both the client, and Server CP in VMs this weekend.

    I haven’t had a lot of time to play, but at least for the moment I’m calling the new Windows 8 Server the “You-better-know-PowerShell-or-you’ll-be-Screwed” edition.

    I’m not saying it’s a bad OS, it’s way too early for me to judge, and it does have some neat features I’ve not come close to scratching the surface of yet. But to all admins, I’d advise getting a copy and lab-testing it; it’s a bit of a shock if you’re really used to GUI-managing your Server 2003/2008 environments, some of which you can still do, and some of which you may not have the option to do.

    • Thresher
    • 8 years ago

    Just perusing some of the feedback here and it seems that at least most of us self-selected tech types aren’t crazy about Windows 8. I have no idea what non-techies think about it, but then again, they weren’t likely to download the preview in the first case.

    We geeks can be very resistant to change, but I wonder how this plays among the average user. Will they be mystified by it? Will they like it? Power users like us have legitimate beefs with some of the design and usability choices made in Win 8, but I have a feeling we ask more of our OS than most people do.

    I wonder if Microsoft is taking into consideration any feedback about the usability of Windows 8 prior to releasing it. Releasing this in its current form, notwithstanding any bug squashing and tweaks, I think may be a disaster of Vista proportions. I just don’t think the average user is going to “get” Metro on the desktop. But then again, my own expectations may color my opinion on this, so I’d really like to see what sort of feedback there has been from the non-geek sector on this.

    • sweatshopking
    • 8 years ago

    does this sound amazing? [url<]http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-app-to-bring-back-start-menu-on-desktop[/url<]

      • David_Morgan
      • 8 years ago

      *Out of hiding* — Yes…. that would make this Windows 8 crash dummy very happy indeed. Signed up for the email alert upon launch. Good find. *Back in the bunker*

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 8 years ago

        It’s an “App”. MIcrosoft is not putting it directly in the OS, and you could probably download classic start as well. However, that’s only a bandaid on a broken leg. You’ll still have to use Metro on work computers, or anything else you haven’t personalized.

          • DeadOfKnight
          • 8 years ago

          I’m willing to bet that businesses will be hesitant to switch over to Windows 8 right away and will instead opt to refresh their systems to Windows 7 and hold on for dear life like they have been with XP until a future Windows release makes things more accessable. That may change over time, but I don’t see many enthusiasts or businesses jumping on Windows 8 upon release.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            that’s fair, but with os upgrades they often skip a cycle. it just means they’ll get windows 9. likely, anyway. who knows, maybe they’ll ditch windows altogether and all run ubuntu! wouldn’t that be great!

    • sweatshopking
    • 8 years ago

    any of you dicks read this?: [url<]http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/03/microsofts-ambitious-step-into-the-future-the-windows-8-consumer-preview.ars[/url<]

      • FuturePastNow
      • 8 years ago

      Yes, I’ve read that. I’ve read most of Microsoft’s excuses for Metro and articles by tech pundits shilling for it.

      • BobbinThreadbare
      • 8 years ago

      I just read though it, on the 2nd page it sounds like there are quite a few issues using it as a traditional desktop.

        • End User
        • 8 years ago

        Metro is just an atrocious waste of space on a 2560 x 1440 display.

        • sweatshopking
        • 8 years ago

        sure. i don’t disagree, this does feel like a beta. THAT being said, i think the amount of qqing and rage (see l33t’s posts) is overblown. my biggest issue was resolved discovering the right click in the bottom left, but i do think it does need work.

          • l33t-g4m3r
          • 8 years ago

          Overblown? Windows 8 is Microsoft BOB, and you yes men tools are the biggest reason I’m “raging” about anything. Stop denying theres a problem. If Microsoft wants to destroy their OS, that’s their prerogative, but I’m not going to play make-believe and go along with it. If you like Mac more than Windows, then stay with Mac. Windows users do not want or need a Mac / tablet interface.

          As for the linux isn’t ready crowd, I challenge you to try out Mandriva or perhaps Mint. Mandriva is damn close to being a legitimate windows replacement. Everything works out of the box, and most necessary applications are included. The initial setup and basic usage has no learning curve, but you’ll need to learn stuff for anything advanced. That isn’t a big issue considering what you’re facing with windows 8. KDE is a superior desktop compared to Metro, and it shouldn’t hinder productivity, or look like a baby’s first computer toy. Considering the low entry cost, I don’t see any major downfalls to trying it out.

          Quite frankly, I’m tired of Microsoft’s constant dumbing down, and if this gets people to switch, I’m all for that. The propaganda is what’s actually aggravating, more than anything else. If Microsoft was completely honest about what they were doing, then I think we could then have an open and honest discussion about what to replace it with, otherwise all we get is noise.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            i stopped using mint after it failed repeatedly to install without serious issues.

            I have been using ubuntu since 7.04, and i don’t honestly think it’s close to a replacement. I like the fact that it’s open source, and i like the philosophy behind it. I personally also love the power of the terminal. that being said, it’s not a replacement for anyone that does ANYTHING other than facebook/email.

            i wouldn’t say i’m a yes man, but i do like metro. I like it a lot. I think it’s the nicest gui on the market, and as i’ve said 100000 times before, i don’t do work on computers. A lot of the qqing is about productivity, and in my case, it’s a non issue. word works the same, excel, access, etc. that’s where i do all my “work”. I don’t mind the changes, because it doesn’t really impact me. the right click bottom left solves my power user issues, and i don’t mind the other changes. I [i<] actually prefer [/i<] the new closing system of grabbing and pulling down vs the X's in the top right. i think it's easier, and faster. I also [i<] enjoy [/i<] messing around with different gui's and os's. I also don't understand why you keep comparing this to osx. it's not the same at all. apple has a fine gui, but it's nothing like metro. Also, many people feel that osx has a good set of power utilities. i've heard some of them have been disappearing, but that's mostly server tools. What "power user" functions, like actual real ones you use everyday, are you losing with this windows 8 transfer? I'm asking, cause i'm curious.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            To be honest, I’m not a Mint or Ubuntu user. I’ve tried Mandriva, which I love, and Debian. My dad swears by Debian, and even will compile his own, but I prefer Mandriva’s ease of use. It really does work. Unlike other Distro’s, I’ve actually gotten games to run, like UT2004, quake3, and a few others. It also played movies and music quite well. Whether or not the windows emulators work I dunno, as that’s not something I’ve spent time with. I’m sure I’ll look more into it down the road. I’m also accustomed to using LibreOffice in windows, so that’s not going to be a switching issue for me.

            OSX? Dunno. The useless flashiness of the GUI perhaps. No, it’s not the same, but I like the classic windows desktop not Metro’s touch screen abomination, or goofy sidebars. OSX probably is a better GUI than Metro, but that doesn’t mean I like either. I think the fact that a lot of Mac users like Metro says a lot about Mac users, and also says a lot about why classic windows users don’t like Metro. Metro isn’t windows, plain and simple. The interface looks like Microsoft BOB, and there needs to be a way to turn it off for desktop purposes.

            I’m ready to jump ship now, been on the fence since 7 really. 8 is only the icing on the cake. I’m tired of Microsoft dumbing down the UI, making it uselessly flashy, hiding options behind a million prompts and wizards. If they want to make a GUI for dumb people fine, just don’t force it on the rest of us. When Microsoft quits supporting the classic desktop, then I’ll quit supporting Microsoft. It’s that simple.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            you don’t see how the fact that you can only get games that are almost a decade old to run might be a problem?

            most distro’s work great for htpc’s. that might be one of their best uses.

            do you use the ugly windows 95 style start menu? personally, i like pretty. i like my computer to be attractive. I always skinned the f out my xp, vista, 7, etc. that’s one of the things i enjoy most. Not so much these days, but i used to do it a lot a few years ago when i was late teens/early 20’s. i think metro is attractive, and it doesn’t impact the things i do in any meaningful way.

            I can appreciate your position, when you take the time to articulate it. I think you might have some valid points, and if you’d take the time to talk about your actual concerns, rather than the M$ stuff, you’d probably find more support. I know, i’m guilty of the same thing. well, i’m off to bed. it’s almost 10 here. I have to get up early, as i’m fasting. love you guys.

            Josh

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            ‘you don’t see how the fact that you can only get games that are almost a decade old to run might be a problem?”
            No. This isn’t a problem for people who have specific games they like. For example, my brother only plays quake live and starcraft. It would be a problem for myself, being that I like to collect. However, I don’t prioritize console ports, and could probably get by depending on how well emulators work. I’ve heard oblivion runs, and if that’s the case a lot of other games should run too.

            “do you use the ugly windows 95 style start menu? personally, i like pretty.”
            It’s not ugly, it’s functional. I’ll take function over form anyday. Form follows function, not form over function. It isn’t that you can’t make the classic GUI pretty, because classic start does just that, and it includes a search bar.

            “I can appreciate your position, when you take the time to articulate it. I think you might have some valid points, and if you’d take the time to talk about your actual concerns, rather than the M$ stuff, you’d probably find more support.”
            The problem is that Microsoft isn’t listening to it’s base. They admittedly have a roadmap that they’re following, and it doesn’t involve real user input. *See the Kaneko interview. If this truly is the case, the only discussion we need to have is what to replace windows with, or how we fire Steve Kaneko and Ballmer.

            • Corrado
            • 8 years ago

            They don’t work great for HTPC’s until they support CableCARDs properly and easily like MCE does. I would LOVE to not have to run MCE/Xbox360’s as extenders on all my TVs, but theres no other HTPC program with proper CableCARD support. I can’t get Walking Dead, Mad Men, Comedy Central, HGTV, DIY, etc OTA, so having robust OTA support doesn’t really help much.

          • BobbinThreadbare
          • 8 years ago

          I have a question. Pushing the Windows key brings up the start page, can one then start typing in a search like the Vista/Win7 start menu?

            • ChronoReverse
            • 8 years ago

            Nope, you have to use WinKey+Q (or was that WinKey+I?) to do that.

            INTUITIVE!

            • BobbinThreadbare
            • 8 years ago

            That sounds awful, being able to just push WinKey and start typing is the single greatest interface improvement Microsoft has made since probably Win95 was introduced.

            • [+Duracell-]
            • 8 years ago

            This is wrong information. You can hit the windows key and start typing to initiate the search just like Windows Vista/7.

            • [+Duracell-]
            • 8 years ago

            Yes, you can start typing for a search. It defaults to searching for apps, but it also searches for settings and files. The same UI element also searches inside other Metro apps that allow it to be searchable.

            • BobbinThreadbare
            • 8 years ago

            I could probably live with it then.

            I think having a whole screen pop up would be jarring though.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            yeah, idk what bobbin is talking about. search still is there in the start menu the same way it was in 7, with the only difference that it defaults to applications.

            • BobbinThreadbare
            • 8 years ago

            I think you mean ChronoReverse, I was just asking.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            i do in fact. it was late or early, or tuesday. one of them.

            • ChronoReverse
            • 8 years ago

            My mistake. It’s still there but you don’t see it until you start typing. Made me think it was removed.

            Of course, Windows 8 is all about hiding information it seems =(

    • Krogoth
    • 8 years ago

    Judging by this community’s reactions.

    It looks like Windows 8 is the second coming of ME for desktops/workstations.

      • ChronoReverse
      • 8 years ago

      There are some things nice though. e.g., performance seems to be up (boot is fast for instance).

      If there was a way to simply turn off Metro easily without registry edits and bring back the Win7 Start Menu, I’d be fine with Win8 (except I’d call it a service pack hmmm…)

        • Krogoth
        • 8 years ago

        The problem is Windows 8 it is really, Vista: Third Edition with a new touchscreen friendly UI slapped on….

        Great, I had just made a ME reference!*

        *-For you newcomers/kiddies, Windows ME was originally going to be called Windows 98: Third Edition but since 2000(the year) was around corner. Microsoft Marketing drones decided to pitch in the whole millennium craziness.

      • Ifalna
      • 8 years ago

      So, Krogoth not impressed?
      Me neither.

    • Chrispy_
    • 8 years ago

    So, to summarise this blog post, Windows 8 is a step in completely the wrong direction for any non-touchscreen device.

    I’ve been ranting about the phone/tablet features having no place on a desktop PC for months, but is there ANYONE who sees merit in Windows 8 from a desktop perspective?

    I could never use Linux because everything I really care about on a PC is written [b<]solely for Windows[/b<], but Microsoft could learn a lot from Linux. That's an OS written for the people, by the people. It's pretty clear that Microsoft doesn't listen to what people want, just unstoppably forging a path so deep that people have no choice but to follow it.

      • Compton
      • 8 years ago

      I think the comparisons to previous UI changes are slightly irrelevant. Win8’s dumbed-down nature and counter-intuitive… well, everything… is not a desktop OS — it is a tablet/phone OS (perhaps even a great one at that). Even the best phone interface and OS are worthless on a desktop where mouse and keyboard are king. MS learned this when they shoehorned Windows in the original Windows Mobile phones years ago. Now that they’re trying to do the opposite, it’s going to encounter resistance from all Windows users.

      Windows 7 is clearly better than previous releases (for me it was immediate, but others took time to adjust). It works for novice and power user alike, and there are always new aspects and features to be learned as familiarity grows. There isn’t anything to learn with Win8, except that it is designed for devices with touchscreens.

      Win8/Metro is a reactionary move, and I believe MS will concede that Metro isn’t for everyone.

        • Chrispy_
        • 8 years ago

        I would be much happier and welcoming if they didn’t call this Windows 8. That implies that it replaces Windows 7 as a successor, the latest version.

        If they called it “Windows Touch 8”, or something, that would be fine. I’d probably welcome it with open arms because it be good at what it was aimed at – touchscreen devices.

        As it is, with Microsoft [i<]pretending[/i<] it's a desktop OS for the real world, software vendors are going to be copying the themes, styles and elements from Windows 8 into their new versions of their products. To see how badly this worked out, just look at all the big-name applications that have been utterly ruined by adopting Microsoft's ribbon bar instead of sensible menu bars.

          • sweatshopking
          • 8 years ago

          what applications have been utterly ruined by the ribbon? office wasn’t. the new explorer is great. the default menu’s that open the ribbons is fantastic.

            • BobbinThreadbare
            • 8 years ago

            The ribbon really sucks in Excel and MSPaint.

            • Thresher
            • 8 years ago

            And it’s pretty pointless in Outlook and IE 10.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            i think it’s fine in excel, and it has improved my spreedsheets. as for paint, wtf? that’s the worst program in the world already, i don’t see how the ribbon could make it worse.

            • BobbinThreadbare
            • 8 years ago

            It takes me at least twice as long to find stuff in the Excel ribbon with non-intuitively named tabs than it used to with the old menus.

            Granted I don’t use Excel very often, nor have I ever, but when I didn’t know what I was doing before I could find stuff faster than I can now.

            • Chrispy_
            • 8 years ago

            All of the above points are true. The Ribbon isn’t better, it’s just different – and whilst being different, it wastes more screen space.

            CAD pacakges, are a prime example. They have used hundreds of tiny little buttons for decades, because you need ALL of the tools, ALL of the time, and having to switch between different tabs of a ribbon bar distracts you from your workflow. If you don’t need a tool on your workspace, we don’t need it wasting space in a big fat ribbon bar. Tucked out of the way in a nice thin menu was fine thanks.

            So yeah, 3DS Max, AutoCAD, Revit have all been ruined by ribbon bars, and whilst I wouldn’t say Office has suffered for the ribbon bar, it’s no better for it, and I’ve had nothing but five years of complaints as people who knew where things were in Office2003 are STILL hunting for which silly ribbon menu things have moved to.

            • Usacomp2k3
            • 8 years ago

            I will have to definitely disagree with you. The ribbon makes so much more sense with layout and finding parts. And it doesn’t take up any space when you have it minimized. The best of both worlds. The improvements in Outlook are just as significant, IMHO.

    • FuturePastNow
    • 8 years ago

    I’ve been using it for a couple of hours now, and so far, I’m terribly annoyed by it all. Metro is in-your-face awful. Nothing intuitive about it. I can’t believe they’ve got research data showing people like to use this schlock.

      • l33t-g4m3r
      • 8 years ago

      They don’t have honest data, and it’s an agenda. Listen to steve kaneko’s interview and you’ll get the picture. Windows is basically being developed in a bubble by yes men working for psychopaths.

      [url<]http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/16/2640634/steve-kaneko-microsoft-design-metro-office-interview[/url<] Kaneko: "We're not looking over our shoulders" "one plus one equals eleven when we do what we do" (1984) "we're no longer comparing... and I like that feel" "teams thinking one to two steps ahead" "there is more coming" "we have a roadmap" "we no longer have to look outside" "it's not an arrogance" (LOL, like hell it isn't.) "this isn't anything we needed permission to do" (screw the users) "up our game so users don't get overwhelmed" "we're not done" "committed to this" "right thing for the business" ($$$) "there's already too much noise in the equation" (resistance) "myself and a bunch of others / went off-site talked about all the levels of details of what we just described" "conversation at the executive level where they're more receptive of what we're talking about / pushing us to do more" (Ballmer needs to go.) "this is the level of craft that we have to up our game to, because stripping all that out comes at a risk if we don't execute it really well" interviewer "I'm a mac user" "that interface has always felt overly complicated to me" (classic windows) "I like windows 8 / Metro" "I won't force you into any more office conversation" -proving you're not a journalist, but a suck up repeater. This interview is so crazy it's beyond denial. If you want to get a good picture of what to expect in the future, listen to everything this man says because this is a preplanned roadmap. Time to abandon ship.

        • danny e.
        • 8 years ago

        wow. a tool talking to a douche.
        Some of what he says makes sense but some of it makes me a bit nervous.

        He came on board to give XP it’s look and feel? great. So, he is the great mind behind the playskool look.

    • ChronoReverse
    • 8 years ago

    If you’re going to make me use Metro, then give me a BACK key. Make it Esc or Backspace or SOMETHING.

      • tdsevern
      • 8 years ago

      Exactly. And let the user choose (as an option in settings) if that back button goes back to the desktop or back to the start menu.

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 8 years ago

        But that would be an intelligent idea. We can’t have that now. Metro must be the dumbest GUI ever, while being praised as the best thing since sliced bread. Dissent is not tolerated, you will live with the problem until windows 9 fixes it. Only then will you be permitted to admit the flaws in 8 to sell 9.

          • sweatshopking
          • 8 years ago

          man. your posts are almost as annoying as mine are.

      • Xaser04
      • 8 years ago

      Fully agree.

      A simple back button would make alot of the built in “apps” much easier to navigate. I know you can hit the windows key again (or click the bottom left of the screen) but the “app” is still running in the background unless you use the new “extremely intuitive…. LOL” close method.

    • Ifalna
    • 8 years ago

    The moment MS forced me to use Metro, was the moment Windows 8 died for me. This UI is UTTER CRAP for a Desktop PC. My Friend and I gave Win8 a new name, based on the weird unsorted colors and the way we have to input “commands”: Windows Kindergarten.

    Thanks MS, but uh … no thanks.

    • DarkUltra
    • 8 years ago

    Metro no grow.

    This is an argument I miss from the discussion. With the Metro UI, users cannot grow past the smartphone level.

    With the Win7 Start Menu I can right click files and quickly find their location. I can drag files to other programs. It is compact (a single list) so I can reach every program and search result with a single click. All these usability features is not possible with the Metro UI and its start screen.

    Having a big 24″ monitor and several applications open and quickly shift between them with task bar. Think OC your PC and running OCCT, IBT, GPUZ, AI suite to monitor temperatures and a text document to note progress. Impossible with Metro UI.

    [url<]http://jooh.no/web/3930k_overclocking.png[/url<] The classic UI in Windows 7 lets the user grow and learn new ways to organize and be more efficient. The Metro UI will hold people back at smart phone level. I love the windows phone and it will be a huge advantage to have access to file system and desktop programs on a Windows 8 tablet, but the Metro UI has very little to offer desktop users, other than nice animations and bloating away the pixels. I want the new explorer in Windows 8 so I can minimize the ribbon and use the quick access toolbar, and the unified file transfer dialogue. Unfortunately these vanish if I enable the classic Start Menu. I hope this has changed in the Consumer Preview. Best of both worlds!

    • chuckula
    • 8 years ago

    Using the consumer preview right now on a spare drive (this is actually the first time this machine has ever run any version of Windows outside of the occasional VM experiment).

    For reference, this system is a Core 2 E8400 with 8GB of RAM and an 8800 GT video card. Not exactly a badass system by modern standards.

    The Good: I will give MS credit, the UI for Windows 8 is extremely smooth and the OS does not appear to be a resource hog. I use Windows 7 at work on a more modern system (i3 530) and while it is not sluggish, the graphical smoothness of Windows 8 is a step up. The eye candy is not too over the top and fonts look pretty clean.

    The Bad: Metro is a freakin’ pain in the @#%$@! from a usability perspective. I had to use my cellphone to go online and get the instructions for how to actually exit out of a window. I can see how the UI could be nice for a tablet.. but… MY PC IS NOT A TABLET (reminds me of the line “my dad is not a phone.. duh!”). The biggest gripe I have is that EVERYTHING seems to be dumbed down and oversimplified to the point that I couldn’t do real work with the interface on a daily basis.

    I wouldn’t mind changes to the start menu, but dumping the start menu entirely for the metro “tiles” is a recipe for disaster for anyone who uses more than one program. The best part about the interface changes in Windows 7? They put the search bar right into the start menu! 90% of the time I just type in a quick term and I can get to complex functionality or find what I want without having to surf through multiple menus or go hunting through the control panel! All of that functionality has just disappeared in Windows 8. Instead, I’m left with a bunch of “tiles” that don’t give me what I want, and the number of steps to get to the “all programs” window is ridiculous.

    Hey MS: I know that you are obsessed with Apple, but guess what: Keyboards & Mice did not wink out of existence just because somebody at Apple said the word “iPad”. I don’t mind having a dumbed-down interface for MS phones (that I’ll never have to use anyway) but there is no way in hell this type of interface will ever fly for getting real work done.

    Another thing: 1. The right mouse button STILL EXISTS! Let me use it! Even Apple does better than this! At least the right mouse button works if you use a multi-button mouse with a Mac. 2. Getting to the settings for the new programs (which pop out from the right-hand side of the screen) is flaky at best. They like to show up randomly for half a second and then disappear without letting me click on what I want.

    One last thing: I’m not overly fond of MS basically trying to force you to use their online services starting from the beginning of the installation process. I managed to duck out of that in installation, but this looks like a power grab by MS to con the ignorant masses into signing their lives over to MS or they’re led to believe that Windows “won’t work right.”

      • Meadows
      • 8 years ago

      [quote<]The best part about the interface changes in Windows 7? They put the search bar right into the start menu![/quote<] Surely, you mean Vista.

        • yogibbear
        • 8 years ago

        Yeah I hate all the idiots that say Vista sucks and then declare windows 7 features are why it was awesome (yet those features became relevant with Vista).

          • l33t-g4m3r
          • 8 years ago

          7 is the Mojave Experiment. [url<]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojave_Experiment[/url<] Sure, there are small improvements, but there is no major difference, and the GUI is actually less usable. Navigating 7's control panel is extremely annoying.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 8 years ago

            the specific feature this branch of the discussion is talking about is the Start Menu’s integrated search – which was added in Vista.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            Point being? The specific feature this branch of the discussion was talking about was tools who like 7 for the features that originated in Vista.

            “Yeah I hate all the idiots that say Vista sucks and then declare windows 7 features are why it was awesome (yet those features became relevant with Vista).”

            The Mojave Experiment is relevant here, because that’s exactly what we got going on. Brainwashing, doctored case study data, and one sided opinions.

            “The experiment was criticized by Gadgetzone.com for cherry-picking positive statements and not addressing all aspects of Vista. The necessary hardware and software was already set up for the participants and demonstrated by a salesman, so they were unable to try out the software themselves. The criticism from the blogosphere was echoed by the New York Times.”

            They don’t have honest data, and it’s an agenda. Listen to steve kaneko’s interview and you’ll get the picture. Windows is basically being developed in a bubble by yes men working for psychopaths.

            [url<]http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/16/2640634/steve-kaneko-microsoft-design-metro-office-interview[/url<] Kaneko: "We're not looking over our shoulders" "one plus one equals eleven when we do what we do" (1984) "we're no longer comparing... and I like that feel" "teams thinking one to two steps ahead" "there is more coming" "we have a roadmap" "we no longer have to look outside" "it's not an arrogance" (LOL, like hell it isn't.) "this isn't anything we needed permission to do" (screw the users) "up our game so users don't get overwhelmed" "we're not done" "committed to this" "right thing for the business" ($$$) "there's already too much noise in the equation" (resistance) "myself and a bunch of others / went off-site talked about all the levels of details of what we just described" "conversation at the executive level where they're more receptive of what we're talking about / pushing us to do more" (Ballmer needs to go.) "this is the level of craft that we have to up our game to, because stripping all that out comes at a risk if we don't execute it really well" interviewer "I'm a mac user" "that interface has always felt overly complicated to me" (classic windows) "I like windows 8 / Metro" "I won't force you into any more office conversation" -proving you're not a journalist, but a suck up repeater. This interview is so crazy it's beyond denial. If you want to get a good picture of what to expect in the future, listen to everything this man says because this is a preplanned roadmap. Time to abandon ship.

        • chuckula
        • 8 years ago

        Really what’s Vista? Everybody knows that Microsoft released Windows 7 after Windows XP.

        (Obligatory XKCD reference: [url<]http://xkcd.com/566/[/url<])

      • killadark
      • 8 years ago

      Don’t judge them so strictly yet its still a consumer preview they might just be reading our reactions and making changes. well atleast that’s what im hoping for.

        • Chandalen
        • 8 years ago

        Don’t give them a free pass either. Let them know exactly what you hate and what you want, and [i<]maybe[/i<] as you say they will listen.

    • FireGryphon
    • 8 years ago

    Microsoft sees that the future is in mobile computing, and it’s using the Windows brand name to gain itself the mindshare of that market. No doubt Windows 7 will continue as the more viable desktop OS, and Windows 9 will be a more mature 7 + 8.

    • Sargent Duck
    • 8 years ago

    Been using the consumer preview since it came out and personally, I just skip right past Metro and do everything on the “typical” desktop. I like what they’ve done with the ribbon bar on the file folders and I like how 2 screens shows different backgrounds. What I don’t like is how when I play a song, it opens up the music app on the metro screen. I find Metro to be really annoying* when using keyboard/mouse

    For me, Windows 8 would be very good if there was an option to disable Metro and re-instate the classic start menu. I’d be very happy with this.

    *Coming from a Windows 7 phone user who loves Metro on his smartphone.

    • From40zto5thz
    • 8 years ago

    Here are my thoughts on windows 8 after using it on both a laptop and desktop. The system is not truly designed for personal computers. The system is designed for tablets that will be docked and computers with touchscreen interfaces, this is apparent by all the UI designed around swipes, the size of the metro tiles and the whole charm thing. The fact that you have two settings on one device is ridiculous.

    It is a totally jarring experience when you press the start button and it takes you back to metro.this is inexcusable.

    I understand that the company wants to change and attract the generation y’ers but there should definitely be a separation in sku’s for desktop and tablet users or allow users to disable the metro interface or else I won’t be upgrading. In fact I’m deleting the Windows 8 partitions today from my desktop even though I do like the ribbon improvements in explorer but metro kills the deal.

    • End User
    • 8 years ago

    I’m running Windows 8 on a dual 1920×1200 desktop. The mix of Metro UI and the classic desktop UI is very jarring.

    • Corrado
    • 8 years ago

    So what are we going to do, as enthusiasts? We don’t like OS X Lion/Mountain Lion, we don’t like Windows 8 Metro, we don’t like Gnome Unity….

    So are we seriously going to be stuck with old OS’s? No. We’ll adapt. Everyone HATED Win95 when it came out, remember? “They changed the way EVERYTHING works! I hate this!” Then XP came out and “Oh it looks like its for kindergarteners. Look at the stupid bright colors. LOL WINDOWS FISHER PRICE!” So XP had flashy colors and changed the way the start menu and interface worked, so it was teh suck. Then the ‘die hards’ wouldn’t let XP go to move to Vista/7 because they dumbed it down and added 3D/transparency stuff, and changed the way things were layed out and how the interface works. Now 7 is the greatest thing ever and 8 is teh suck because its got flashy colors and changed the way the interface works.

    Seriously you guys are hilarious. Its the same thing every few years. EVERY TIME. We’ll all end up moving to Windows 8, and when they start showing off 9 we’ll all grumble and complain about the ‘flashy colors and dumbing it down and they changed the way things work’

    No shit! If they didn’t change things, drastically, you’d say they’re ripping you off and its just a service pack and they’re lazy and sitting on their asses. They can’t win.

      • l33t-g4m3r
      • 8 years ago

      No. We won’t adapt, 8 is too much. We’ll switch to linux with a classic desktop GUI if necessary. Screw Gnome.

      Bare minimum, the classic shell program will see a massive user increase.

        • Meadows
        • 8 years ago

        Don’t tell enthusiasts what to do, you [i<]viral linux salesman[/i<].

          • l33t-g4m3r
          • 8 years ago

          You’re one to talk. Why don’t you take your own advice. People can make up their own mind on how to handle Windows 8, and I think you’ll see that it isn’t the way you want them to. Also, how am I a “salesman” when Linux is free, and I’m not receiving a kickback. (unlike you shilling for MS) I also am not endorsing linux, as much as it is the only viable alternative. All it would take is one good GUI and the windows tax would dissolve into the abyss.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            osx is a viable alternative. despite your rambling. I like you l33t, well, i try to. But you’re crazy. the issues with linux are not the gui. it’s everything else. the gui is the least of the problems. it’s the fact that it’s buggy, fragmented, and uses an alien file system. People (most) understand C:\ they don’t understand root / it’s confusing, and so people hate it. they have learned that .exe means they can run it.
            if you EVER have to use the terminal, to a layman, you’re a fail, and let’s be honest, even using a new version, you’re going to end up in the terminal. maybe not everyday, but often enough. i’ve run enough distros to know you require it, and my mom/dad/grandparents/brothers/sisters aren’t going to settle for all the issues linux brings.

            People have learned a great deal about how windows operates, and the fact that it has access to all the software in the world. Linux needs a hell of a lot more than a new gui to sort those issues out.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            I somewhat agree with you, but you’re poorly stereotyping linux. These so called problems aren’t as bad as you claim, and like you said OSX is a viable alternative. Otherwise, Mandriva is probably the best distro I’ve come across for windows users. Everything is configurable via the GUI, you don’t need to use the terminal, and document / file management is easy. Drivers and codecs are also pre-installed.

            Holes in your statement:
            “People understand C:\”
            -this type of navigation disappeared with breadcrumbs, people now understand drives and my documents.

            “.exe means they can run it.”
            -not when the .exe extension is hidden by default. The avg user does not know what an EXE is, they see Icons.

            “People have learned a great deal about how windows operates”
            Not when Microsoft is keen on destroying that knowledge every new OS. This statement was only true from DOS-XP. Not anymore. This problem is exactly what I’m complaining about, and until Microsoft stops ruining their OS, there is no point in sticking with it. If I have to spend 200$ and relearn every new Windows OS, then I might as well learn Linux for free.

            “it’s confusing”
            And Windows 8 isn’t? More accurately, it’s artificially limited to the point of confusion.

            “it has access to all the software in the world.”
            -No it doesn’t. Obviously. Linux also has greater access to free software, which offsets Microsoft’s broader support.

            “it’s everything else. the gui is the least of the problems.”
            You just said OSX was a viable alternative. What is OSX based from? OSX is a GUI / custom Distro, nothing more. We also have chromebooks and router firmwares based off linux. Businesses like Autozone are also fully linux based. There is no spoon.

            “my mom/dad/grandparents/brothers/sisters aren’t going to settle for all the issues linux brings.”
            If they don’t know how to use windows, they won’t know the difference. I know from experimenting on my own relatives. The only thing they need is access to the web / email / documents, and KDE handles that just fine. Not troubleshooting viruses is a big bonus too.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            tldnr: learning a new os is learning a new os. why learn linux, if you can learn new windows AND keep your software.

            not in order:
            “Linux also has greater access to free software”
            don’t be crazy. there are more free programs and access to software by an order of magnitude for windows over linux.

            “breadcrumbing” no. most people don’t even know what a hard drive is. they call it a “c drive”. while you’re right that it has been made easier, linux is not as clear. i don’t agree.

            “exe’s” your point is fair. There is still some confusion about shortcuts vs exe’s. i’ll cede that point.

            “OSX is a GUI / custom Distro, nothing more” yes it is. it’s a nonfragmented privatized darwin based os. it’s hardly the same thing. I have no issues with the gnu/nix kernal. it’s the fact that because it’s open source, it’s all over the place. without somebody MAJOR to come in and produce a STANDARIZED AND WIDELY USED OS on it, it’s not ready for average use. You want google to come save you? they might be able to make an os, but i’d trust them no more than MS. in that case, you’d be back to square one.

            “The only thing they need is access to the web / email / documents, and KDE handles that just fine.” sure. if THATS THE ONLY thing they do, and don’t mind using the inferior office packs that are available for nix. too many people dl stuff, and then “why doesn’t this work”. “i’ve got this game i used to play that nobody has ever heard of”. etc.

            tbh, i haven’t troubleshoot any viruses in a LONG time. tell people to install mse, and then i’ve been good. even my father who downloads EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD hasn’t had one in a long time.

            AND i never said they don’t know how to use windows. I’d say most people do. most people i deal with anyway. I’ve installed linux on probably 30 people’s computers over the years, from varying tech backgrounds, myself included, and guess what? exactly 0 people have stuck with it. they ALWAYS go back to windows. i still use it periodically, but it’s not useful for your average person. you talk about having to relearn your gui, how about relearning every program? no ms office, no photoshop, no REAL games, etc. (and wine works for SOME games, but it’s not a real alternative unless you’re a die hard, it’s simply not as good) you’re in a worse position then when you started. PLUS, THEY BRING OUT A NEW UI EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS, THEN YOU HAVE TO RELEARN A NEW UI TOO! how is that better? I suppose you could stay with the old one, but then, just stay with your old windows and you’ve saved yourself a ton of work.

            • Meadows
            • 8 years ago

            “Viral salesman” was a sarcastic remark, you doofus. Because you’re attacking everyone with the same template paragraph.

        • sweatshopking
        • 8 years ago

        hahhahahahahahahahahahaahaahhahhahaahahhahahhhaahha nobodies going to do that.

      • sweatshopking
      • 8 years ago

      pretty much this. ^ you get my +1. these guys qq no matter what they do.

      • danny e.
      • 8 years ago

      I skipped Win 95 & went to 98.
      XP colors can be changed so it didnt look annoying. I always changed the look / feel of XP as the first thing after installation.
      Vista I avoided.
      Win 7 is nice except for the uncustomizable start.. which would be nicer with just a few options to change size.
      If Win 8 can be customized to avoid the drawbacks then I might get it someday, otherwise I’ll avoid it. Maybe Win 9 will be better.

      So, in conclusion, give people an option and they will just customize the product the way they like, give them no options and they will ignore they product

      • stmok
      • 8 years ago

      [quote<]So what are we going to do, as enthusiasts? We don't like OS X Lion/Mountain Lion, we don't like Windows 8 Metro, we don't like Gnome Unity....[/quote<] (1) I don't own a Mac. (2) Skipping Windows 8. Sticking with Windows XP or 7 if I need Windows for specific roles that Linux/BSD can't do due to Windows-only apps. (3) I don't use Gnome in Linux/BSD. Xfce for me. [quote<]So are we seriously going to be stuck with old OS's? No. We'll adapt. Everyone HATED Win95 when it came out, remember? "They changed the way EVERYTHING works! I hate this!" Then XP came out and "Oh it looks like its for kindergarteners. Look at the stupid bright colors. LOL WINDOWS FISHER PRICE!" So XP had flashy colors and changed the way the start menu and interface worked, so it was teh suck.[/quote<] The thing about WinXP was that it still offered the option to switch to the old Classic interface. So those transitioning from Win95/98/2k will have relatively few issues. This is especially important for business, where one will require re-training and time for employees to get used to things. [quote<]Then the 'die hards' wouldn't let XP go to move to Vista/7 because they dumbed it down and added 3D/transparency stuff, and changed the way things were layed out and how the interface works. Now 7 is the greatest thing ever and 8 is teh suck because its got flashy colors and changed the way the interface works.[/quote<] I tolerate Win7's GUI out of necessity. It doesn't offer Classic interface, while at the same time it requires more clicks to do the same thing as before. (Since Microsoft added a few more layers in order to simplify things for the general user base.) Its like going from point A to B...It used to be a straight line with the Classic interface. Direct and to the point. Now we have all this extra crap we don't need. Why couldn't they have an Advance Users Mode that allows one to retain Classic interface? [quote<]Seriously you guys are hilarious. Its the same thing every few years. EVERY TIME. We'll all end up moving to Windows 8, and when they start showing off 9 we'll all grumble and complain about the 'flashy colors and dumbing it down and they changed the way things work'[/quote<] This isn't a slight change. This is a big change at the fundamental level. Win8's Metro doesn't feel intuitive on the traditional desktop platform. Its so different that it isn't funny. In fact, it doesn't even make sense from a desktop perspective. Its more suited for the tablet/smartphone platforms. Maybe even those All-in-One systems with a touchscreen. Its just clumsy for the mouse/keyboard combo. [quote<]No **** If they didn't change things, drastically, you'd say they're ripping you off and its just a service pack and they're lazy and sitting on their asses. They can't win.[/quote<] They aren't changing to improve things like refining it for the better. I'll gladly pay for something like that...They're deliberately changing things for the sake of changing. What's worse is that they offer NO OPTION to go back to the older interface. ie: Microsoft customers will feel like they've been strung along at MS's whim. MS says "jump", you say "How high?". MS says "bend over", what do you do? I tell them to "pi$$ off! I'm sticking to your older products that are still supported by your 5yr+5yr lifecycle." This is like trying to design a fighter plane to do everything for everyone. Result? You get this overpriced piece-of-crap project called the JSF (Lockheed Martin F-35). The current production of the plane doesn't even meet the requirements of the military, let alone its foreign partners. So what do they do? Lower the requirements! Blow smoke in our faces with Lockheed Martin's marketing BS. (The technology in the F-35 isn't mature, and its going to increase costs because it hasn't been refined. LM wants the taxpayer to fund the debugging part of the project.) A fighter plane that forms the backbone of an air force should be designed for one role: A dogfighter that is simple to build, easily maintainable, reliable, affordable to buy and to keep running. Ground attack is secondary. See Northrop T-38/F-5/F-20 and Douglas A-4 Skyhawk projects. Its better to have lots of capable planes (that give expensive ones a run for their money), than a few overpriced high quality planes. The Germans learned this the hard way in WWII. (Their Me262 was a bad-ass jet fighter in an era of propeller planes. The problem is that they built too few for it to make any difference to the war.) Likewise, for an OS. Keep that $hit simple and clean. Trim out all the layers of GUI fat. Direct and straight to the point. Retain the menu system, but keep the applications categorised like what's done in Xfce. Fast, robust, and secure. Change things only to improve it. Not for the sake of changing or recklessly responding to competition. Do one thing, and do it well...For when you try to be everything for eveyone, you often find you'll end up being nothing for no one.

        • sweatshopking
        • 8 years ago

        wut? an f-35?
        tldnr version: i like airplanes.
        and xfce is so ugly, i can’t stand to look at it. wtf is taht. a mouse? wtf.

    • Jakubgt
    • 8 years ago

    Look at the bright side.. Boot times are significantly increased, shutdown is almost instantaneous, and several more performance tweaks should follow. Throw in a classic start menu + an option to remove metro and Microsoft will both worlds

      • mcnabney
      • 8 years ago

      Yes, because taking hours and hours updating and relearning Win8 will really pay off when the 0.000001% of my time that is horribly wasted starting/rebooting is reduced. Win7 already sleeps/wakes in a second or two. Seems to be perhaps the dumbest improvement to value. Compatibility and speed being the top reasons.

      • Meadows
      • 8 years ago

      [quote<]Boot times are significantly increased [...] and Microsoft will both worlds[/quote<] I'm not sure you can English

        • Jigar
        • 8 years ago

        LOL – Dam, Meadows, you made me spill my coffee…

        • Krogoth
        • 8 years ago

        [url<]http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/403/Girls.png[/url<]

      • FuturePastNow
      • 8 years ago

      Microsoft is not going to give you the option of a classic start menu, nor any setting to turn off Metro. There will be 3rd party applications that do those things, and probably registry hacks, but nothing built into the OS.

    • oldog
    • 8 years ago

    For what it’s worth; the RDP app seems to be much, much faster in Win 8. I don’t believe that I saw any information to suggest that this aspect of Windows was speeded up.

    Also, for pen based tablets, the handwriting recognition program is superb and a definite step up from Win 7. Unfortunately, navigating with the pen is harder than on Win 7. Go figure.

    • sschaem
    • 8 years ago

    Count me out, I have zero interest in any of this, specially when most of this social junk is available via a web browser.

    But I will try it out next week or so… and most likely get myself educated on the latest linux distro at the time.

    I wonder if Microsoft got infiltrated by “saboteurs”… windows8 is truly laughable outside of the tablet market & phone market.

    • egon
    • 8 years ago

    It’s like the Joint Strike Fighter of operating systems – an attempt to create a single platform that satisfies overly-divergent roles, resulting in a design that’s suboptimal for one or more of the roles it’s intended to fulfill.

    • jackbomb
    • 8 years ago

    Something I’ve noticed: Mac users seem to really like the consumer preview (at least the six I’ve talked to). Perhaps this won’t be the Mac seller that Vista was.

      • Fighterpilot
      • 8 years ago

      Windows 7 64bit is a very nice OS.
      Unless there’s some killer new functionality in Windows 8, they appear to be fixing something that isn’t broken.
      Touch might be great on mobiles but for the desktop just now,no.
      Also I think the colors for Metro are weak and it looks gay.

        • sschaem
        • 8 years ago

        yep, Windows8 looks terrible… I’m no UI expert. but why do they use super saturated primary color for no reasons ?

        Game, calendar and mail is electric green … because ?
        Messaging and music is bright purple .. because?

        It almost look wrong, like a graphic bug where the UI is not rendered correctly.
        I hope its just a beta and all this will be redone by a professional UI designer.

        The whole thing look like a random mess. mixing UI styles, no orders or organizations complete waste of real estate, to many slow and annoying animations…

        So far all the stuff I read about windows8 in blogs and preview is so lame that Windows seem to have a serious identity crysis that I dont want to be a part of.
        I dont need or want a tablet (until one support accurate pen input), so I have zero need or interest in this mess. But if I did want a tablet, windows8 seem like a decent option.

          • faramir
          • 8 years ago

          It’s metrosexual.

          • Meadows
          • 8 years ago

          It’s spelt “crisis”.

        • Voldenuit
        • 8 years ago

        The new features in W8 which might potentially interest enthusiasts are:

        – ReFS: probably more useful in the server space than for consumers
        – Hybrid Boot: useless if you have a SSD, and an SSD is probably a better upgrade at the same price than shelling out $100 for a new windows license
        – Improved Task Manager: nice, but not essential
        – Improved File Copy dialog box: again, nice, but not essential
        – Improved thread scheduling: probably more interest to BD users than other CPU models, but again, if you’re going to spend another $100 for an OS update, you should have gotten a 2500K instead :p.

        Everything else (LiveID, Metro, Windows Store, etc) sound like fluff to me.

        I predict that 3 weeks after MS launches Windows 8, there will be a massive outcry from the consumer base, and they will start issuing ‘Windows 7 downgrades’ like they did for Vista :P.

      • l33t-g4m3r
      • 8 years ago

      I’m sure Mac users will love 8, especially since it has been brought down to their kindergarten, bright shiny buttons, intelligence level. (Remind me again why MICROSOFT is catering WINDOWS to MAC USERS.)

      Truly pathetic Microsellout is now catering their GUI to the minuscule Mac and non-savvy crowd. Lose 50% to gain 5%. Smart. Perhaps it may appear so if you’re arrogant enough to assume the majority of windows users are loyal consumer whores, and you can shove this down our throats because you have a monopoly, but that isn’t really the case. Linux is a real alternative now, and this could just be the push people need to switch. If this causes a great migration, I will laugh manically.

        • Meadows
        • 8 years ago

        The majority [b<]will always be[/b<] "non-tech-savvy". [quote<]Lose 50% to gain 5%.[/quote<] Cite your sources. [quote<]Linux is a real alternative now[/quote<] No, it isn't.

          • l33t-g4m3r
          • 8 years ago

          “No, it isn’t.” Chromebooks beg to differ.

          “The majority will always be “non-tech-savvy”.”
          And if you give them a dumbed down linux GUI, then they’re none the wiser. You contradict yourself, and I’m 100% right. Not to mention that 8 has gone beyond catering to non-savvy, but instead creating non-savvy by making the OS a walled garden. People who are so brain dead they need 8’s GUI aren’t real windows users anyway, you could stick anything in front of them, including Linux. I’ve tried it with relatives, it works and they can’t break the OS as easily.

          “Cite your sources.” HA. You amuse me. We all know statistics are lies, but it’s pretty obvious that the Mac crowd is smaller than the Windows crowd, and you shouldn’t be catering to an audience that doesn’t use your product.

          Microsoft has shot themselves in the foot. This is the beginning of the end. Lie and deny all you want, I don’t care. You aren’t fooling anyone but yourself, and it won’t change the results. Microsoft WILL lose sales on this abomination. If anybody asks me for advice, I’ll now recommend a mac or linux depending on their price range.

            • Meadows
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]You contradict yourself, and I'm 100% right.[/quote<] You're a child.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            sounds like something i’d say!

            • JohnC
            • 8 years ago

            Why do you bother with trolls…

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            Says the liar. 1: You say Linux isn’t viable: False. That’s not true on any number of levels, and businesses definitely don’t agree with you. 2: You claim people are so stupid the OS/GUI doesn’t matter, which contradicts your claim that windows 8 is better. It is clearly possible to create a Windows 8-like GUI for Linux that removes all control and thought from the user. It’s called a chromebook. I don’t see where you have a leg to stand on here.

            • Corrado
            • 8 years ago

            ChromeOS may be Linux based, but saying Chromebooks are Linux isn’t any different than saying OS X is BSD. Sure, its based on it, but its not really the same thing.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            No, it is Linux. It’s a Distro/GUI that runs on linux, not much different than running KDE or Gnome off Ubuntu. The only change is that all responsibility has been removed from the user. It’s not impossible to duplicate the chromebook concept with another GUI. All you need is somebody to make a custom GUI on a closed platform. Gasp! I just discovered Apple’s secret!

            • Corrado
            • 8 years ago

            Apple’s secret is a closed platform? Really? Cuz the kernel and a LOT of the drivers are open source.

            Check it out:

            [url<]http://opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-1073/[/url<]

            • Voldenuit
            • 8 years ago

            The problem is that Apple is not under any obligation to return any of its forks or proprietary code to the open source community (and doesn’t).

            Nor does it open its hardware system to other PC makers.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            Exactly. Apple is the perfect example of what I’m talking about, as well as chromebooks. Microsoft is too late to this market if that is what they are going for, and forcing desktop users to adjust to a radically new touch based GUI is going to alienate their base. The base loves the old GUI, look how long people stuck to XP, and some still are. 8 is nothing more than the straw that breaks the camel’s back. People are going to flee en-masse to the first linux based XP clone that comes out.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            That’s not what I meant and you know it. Apple’s OS is closed, linux is not. This is all walled garden profiteering, and if Microsoft is going to join the crowd, we all might as well jump ship.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            why? because they have an app store? where did you want to track down your tablet applications? DAMN YOU UBUNTU FOR HAVING THE SOFTWARE SOURCE!!111 seriously. you need to understand the difference between having options for third party software, and not. you can still get whatever x86 software you want, but you also have the option of an malware free appstore. what’s wrong with that?

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            Whether or not the App Store is locked in is trivial when “Apps” are designed to play nice with the new OS. If regular programs don’t work well with the Metro UI, that combined with laziness will cause the App Store to eventually become the only way to download software, much like steam. Microsoft will also take a cut for distributing software. Microsoft isn’t trying to become a Mac as much as they’re becoming Steam on a Tablet. You thought GFWL was bad? Just wait for the App Store.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            i don’t mind gfwl. Most of my buddies have xbox’s, so we chat in game. as for the app store, so far it seems to run great. I’m not sure what you think is going on. If regular programs don’t work well with the new windows, then that’s up to lazy developers to fix, or pay ms to do it right.

            • TakinYourPoints
            • 8 years ago

            Except that you can install any normal desktop applications that you want on OS X or Windows 8 outside of Metro. OS X and Windows may be closed operating systems, Windows more closed overall than OS X, but neither is a walled garden in terms of limiting the standard desktop applications you can install.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 8 years ago

            Linux and ChromeOS have one really important key feature in common, though: neither are a viable alternative to Windows.

      • Thresher
      • 8 years ago

      As a Mac user, I can tell you I really dislike Metro and think it’s the wrong path to follow.

    • danny e.
    • 8 years ago

    Maybe Windows 8 is just Microsofts friendly way of trying to get us all to go outside more.

    • Thresher
    • 8 years ago

    Two things would fix this OS for me:

    Add a Windows/Start button that opens a traditional start menu. Finding stuff on that huge window is going to be awful once I load all my apps.

    Let me open more than two windows at a time. If there is a way to do it, I haven’t figured it out.

    Once you get to the desktop, it’s not bad. But the metaphor they are using just doesn’t work on a multiscreen PC. I don’t think it works on a single screen that well for that matter. For tablets, I think it has the potential to be AWESOME.

      • toddos
      • 8 years ago

      1. Type. It’s so much faster, and you can do it today (in fact, since Vista). Why navigate a list when you can type it? Want to launch “Word”? Okay, you can either mouse around until you find the Word icon in the Start Menu/Metro screen, or you can type “wo” and it’ll pop right up, ready to be run when you hit the enter key (depending on what else you have installed, you might have to type “wor” rather than just “wo”).

      2. The two-window limitation is only for metro apps. Desktop apps still run with overlapping windows, as many as you like, and continue to act exactly as they always have. The point of metro apps is that they’re supposed to be “immersive”, so you’re only doing one or two things (watching a video and having an IM chat, for example).

        • LordEkim
        • 8 years ago

        What, why do you think only two apps are “immersive” ?
        Using 2 screens, on second there is mIrc, next to is Skype, following is Foobar. And that is only first half of second monitor.
        When I’m gaming then I can see all other important stuff in real time. It is not needed to hit alt + tab.

        And just as someone (prior in comments) wrote, I will/am exploring Linux distro’s for home use (cheap, and Win is only for games anyway)

        Only problem is that my company is MS gold partner with all subscriptions, so i could end with this OS for blind/impaired (no offense).

        PS. this colors could bring my eyes to new diopter levels

      • tootercomputer
      • 8 years ago

      I had played with the developers preview, got bored pretty quickly, now just installed this. This is much more polished, finished product (as it is supposed to be now that it’s in beta).

      At first, I hated this, Trying to figure out this interface. They have made changes since the Developers Preview. I suspect there are some hidden features that for some reason they are not advertising. I found that going into the corners at a 45 degree angle activates the menu (on right) or previous screens (on left). Something like that, I’m still figuring it out.

      So I’m not sure what to make of this yet. I was totally frustrated when it prevented me from installing pale moon, but I finally figured that out. Good protection I guess. I’ll play wih it for a while.

      Installed on a i7 Lynfield system, 8g ram, dedicated velociraptor 300g.

    • WhatMeWorry
    • 8 years ago

    Apple sold approximately 52 million iPhones and iPads last quater so it makes since that they are bringing in iOS functionality into OS X. But Microsoft’s crown jewels (excluding Office and Windows Server) is and has always been the Windows operating system for PCs.

    But for Microsoft to make such a radical change in Windows 8 seems to me rather risky, expecially for what is right now only a potential market. They may get the worst of both worlds: alienating their existing base and not making much head way in the phone/tablet sector.

    The truth of the matter is that iOS and Android have a huge headstart in the mobile arena. Microsoft may – even with Nokia – come in a distant third. But Microsoft still rules in PCs and that is nothing to sneeze at.

      • Voldenuit
      • 8 years ago

      [quote<]Microsoft may - even with Nokia - come in a distant third[/quote<] It's ironic that the most interesting phone in nokia's stable - the Pureview 808 - runs on Symbian Belle because the WP7 hardware platform is too limited for nokia to innovate on.

        • sweatshopking
        • 8 years ago

        not quite. they were working on the pureview tech with symbian for years before they started using wp7. the tech is coming to wp7. that being said, wp7 isn’t perfect, as the new skype app has shown some limitations of the os. that being said, i’d still use wp7 over android, symbian, or iOS.

          • Voldenuit
          • 8 years ago

          I’ve seen it mentioned (although not from reputable sources) that the strict hardware guidelines in WP7 prevented them from adding the custom ASIC that does the signal processing on the pureview camera.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            [url<]http://wmpoweruser.com/nokias-jo-harlow-it-will-not-take-very-long-to-bring-pureview-technology-to-windows-phone/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+WmPowerUser+%28WM+Power+User%29[/url<]

          • rxc6
          • 8 years ago

          WP7 is good, but it is not there yet. Even Skype is unable to work around the limitations of the system. So until that Apollo shows up, I am not interested on it.

          • NeelyCam
          • 8 years ago

          SSK saying something bad about WP7?!?!@!1

          Now I’ve seen it all.

          You know, Skype works pretty well on Android.. just sayin’

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            yeah, i have it on my android devices. skype works as well as it can on android, crashes, etc.

            the issue with skype on wp7 is that voip is not yet a supported background task. so if you quit the app, the call ends. kind of annoying. otherwise, it works great. I hear it’s going to be fixed shortly though. Even with that annoyance, i would still rather use it on my stable wp7 device than on my unstable android ones.

            • ChronoReverse
            • 8 years ago

            What kind of useless Android device do you have that crashes all the time? Custom roms are generally required for maximum speed and the latest versions, but stability isn’t usually an issue. It’s stuff like battery life that can often be terrible.

            • sweatshopking
            • 8 years ago

            i find it to be an issue on all android devices i’ve used/had/have. Some of them randomly restart, applications crash, etc. i think the fact that android is the least reliable mobile os is well documented. part of the issue is the open code allows for crappy apps that can break your os. it HAS improved greatly from the early days

            • ChronoReverse
            • 8 years ago

            Which Android devices have you used and owned then? I’m hardly the only Android user I know and while there’s always complaints about speed and battery life, instability isn’t one of them.

      • TakinYourPoints
      • 8 years ago

      The difference is that iOS inspired functions rolled into OS X don’t supplant or trample over what works well with a mouse/trackpad and keyboard. Things like Launchpad are completely optional and don’t get in the way of using a normal UI. Same with the way OS X handles fullscreen apps compared to fullscreen Metro apps.

      Metro leans way too heavily in Windows 8 as it is. As much as I complained about some aspects of OS 10.7, at least Apple didn’t ruin the fundamentals of the OS in the same way Microsoft is doing with Metro in Win8. I really /[really]/ hope that the reception beats some sense into Microsoft and they either more smoothly integrate the two paradigms, or they segment them even further.

    • Duck
    • 8 years ago

    What happens when you press the windows key on the keyboard?

      • toddos
      • 8 years ago

      Exactly what you’d expect — it pops up the Metro page (the start menu replacement) or brings you back to the running app or desktop depending on where you were.

        • Duck
        • 8 years ago

        I wouldn’t have expected that.

          • yogibbear
          • 8 years ago

          Neither. Now I’m confused. πŸ™

          • derFunkenstein
          • 8 years ago

          given that metro replaced the start menu (and that’s been documented everywhere since the developer preview) that’s exactly what you should have expected.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            Easy now, they’re in stage 1: denial.

      • bthylafh
      • 8 years ago

      Brings up the Start screen.

    • SnowboardingTobi
    • 8 years ago

    So would it be possible to have a tablet docked on your desk and connected to the computer so that all it displays is the metro start screen? And then your main monitor can be the actual desktop? I might go for that. Or not a full blow tablet but just have a mini touch screen.

    • danny e.
    • 8 years ago

    Dear Microsoft, I don’t want a phone interface on my desktop. If I wanted to buy a crap OS I could buy an Apple.

      • Grigory
      • 8 years ago

      Short and sweet. πŸ™‚

      • Duck
      • 8 years ago

      I thumbed you up, but this is getting annoying! You would have them do a tablet edition as a separate version? Microsoft is evolving their software and doing a good job of it. I don’t see how that can be criticized for it so much.

        • danny e.
        • 8 years ago

        I’m not sure why a Win-Desktop, Win-Mobile is a bad thing but they wouldn’t need to do that either. Just allow people to customize. Don’t take away what we like and replace it with what we hate without an option to disable it.
        What would be cool would be something like a phone home page, flip between Win7 like desktop or Metro-style. Or some such.


        Visual Studio team should take over Win GUI.

      • tcunning1
      • 8 years ago

      When the MacOS seems vastly more normal and is more productive to use for someone who has used Windows since 1.0, well…something is seriously wrong. If Microsoft forces people to use this abomination there will be lines around the block at the Apple Store, and rightfully so.

    • burntham77
    • 8 years ago

    After two days with the OS, I find the process of settings things up (mainly all the icons) to be tedious, but once it’s there and I am just using the OS as I normally do (gaming, video editing, video conversion, file management), I don’t notice the OS all that much.

    They really just took the Start Menu area and blew it up to a full screen interface. It does still feel awkward though. It screams out to be touched via a touch screen, so maybe Microsoft decided it was time to push touch screens on us.

    • Decelerate
    • 8 years ago

    Skimmed-read the post so far (will dig into it when my eyes will stop wanting to close)

    That left bar looks interesting… the right one (charm bar?) too.

    Other than that, I reflect some people’s worries about the effects on productivity of the bling (not saying it’s bad, but so far we’re still in the “Oh! Shiny!” period)

    • yammerpickle2
    • 8 years ago

    Windows 8 makes me think about all those greasy fingerprints all over a touch screen monitor that I have to look at for 10 hours a day. No thanks!
    Instead make the applications I use every day faster and easier. I’d like to see some significant improvement in Direct X speed and hardware usage with next generation ultra high definition multi-monitor support. My laser mouse and several high resolution monitors beat a touchscreen for all the applications and games I run every day. That is true now, and what I see in the immediate future.

      • aceuk
      • 8 years ago

      I wonder when someone will invent a device that can add touch capabilities to a non-touchscreen monitors?

      Oh wait, they have…

      [url<]http://www.apple.com/magictrackpad/[/url<] [url<]http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/products/touch-mouse/microsite/[/url<]

    • paralou
    • 8 years ago

    Since Microsoft decided to create Windows, the OS is getting more and more complecated, including thousand and thousand obsolete files ! Using 20-30GB’s !
    But Mister Bill is the Master, and we are all the poor manipulated and stupid guys !
    Windows is not an OS anymore, it’s a real software application, includong more and more unnecesary applications, which are just good to provoke conflict situations !.
    I deplore and regret the real true Operating System, I mention the DOS !…

    When I think at the ’80’s, i was filled of enthusiasmn, and full of motivation creating program’s using C/C++, with thousand’s of lines.
    When they where compiled, is just used a floppy or diskette to save it !

    To day, when i intend to create a program, i need at least a CD or even a DVD !
    Next time, it will be a Blu-ray !

    What can we do ?… BOYCOTTING …Say NO to Windows 8 and continue using your actual version, which are doing EXACTLY the same job !

      • burntham77
      • 8 years ago

      Anytime you want to stop pretending it’s still 1998, that will be fine.

      • Ringofett
      • 8 years ago

      If you’re making a simple program that requires a DVD, I think you may be doing it wrong.. All my favorite apps are probably less than 20mb, most less than 5mb. uTorrent is a slender 723kb.

      • zoom314
      • 8 years ago

      Bill Gates is not in charge at Microsoft anymore, Baldy is…

      • sschaem
      • 8 years ago

      4K program on windows7 , enough said.

      [url<]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCh3Q08HMfs[/url<]

      • derFunkenstein
      • 8 years ago

      lolwut?

    • tootercomputer
    • 8 years ago

    I am surprised they did not use a clown fish. That would have been so . . . Microsoft.

      • cycomiko
      • 8 years ago

      Their fish selection is far more appropriate than feeding the trolls

      [url<]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betta[/url<]

    • Mystic-G
    • 8 years ago

    As neat as Metro is and great as it is for touchscreens, the overall design of the ui is trivial for desktop or laptop users. It’s like Microsoft is attempting to simplify Windows from a alternate universe, but in the process will confuse most to the point of tutorials.

    I believe most gut reactions to this will indeed be the OS’s fate in the end. A nice evolution for touchscreens and a side-step at best for desktops and laptops.

    Not too many are mentioning it, but on another note, Windows requiring a Live ID with plenty of personal information seems to be silly and a bit insulting for those who prefer to be anonymous and don’t feel like they should have an online account attached to their Windows install.

      • ew
      • 8 years ago

      FWIW you can install and use it without a Live ID. You can also adjust most of the privacy settings but they are worded in a way that will make you think you’re cutting your balls off by disabling them.

    • PeterD
    • 8 years ago

    Windows turns fishy…

    • zimpdagreene
    • 8 years ago

    I agree. Not having a option to at least bring back the start menu is the wrong way to go. I do enough swiping on my phone.

    • ew
    • 8 years ago

    [quote<]a "Professional" version of Windows 8 with the ability to turn off the Metro enhancements and reinstate the Start menu would be a smart move[/quote<] Excellent idea! And they'll sell this version at a $100 premium. Instead of "Windows 8 Professional" it will be call "Windows 8 Pay Twice for Windows 7".

    • Grigory
    • 8 years ago

    I wonder if they are trying to pull a Vista only to follow it up with a Windows 7.

    • bcronce
    • 8 years ago

    I used Win8 for a day, I didn’t like it. It’s a horrible OS
    I used Linux for a day, I didn’t like it. It’s a horrible OS
    I tried exercising for a day, I didn’t lose any weight. It’s a horrible way to lose weight.
    I tried eating fruits and vegetables for a day, I was still sick. Eating healthy is a horrible way to stay healthy.

    Use it for a month, then get back.

      • JohnC
      • 8 years ago

      I’m sure that anyone will be able to adapt to this GUI abomination after a while, but that’s not the point. The point is people shouldn’t be FORCED to adapt to a single certain way that OS manufacturer arrogantly assumes is “right” for EVERYONE and for EVERY device.

        • DragonDaddyBear
        • 8 years ago

        So, if Apple does it then it’s OK but if Micro$oft does it people give them flack?

        Apple has intergrated more of their iOS in the last two revisions and no one said they were arrogant and it’s going to continue…

          • JohnC
          • 8 years ago

          I never said what Apple does is “ok”; in fact, I don’t really like the direction which Apple is also taking their OSX at, but we are not discussing the Apple products here.

          • TEAMSWITCHER
          • 8 years ago

          First off, when Apple introduced the iPad it was a separate product from it’s popular Mac Platform. Microsoft is attempting to leverage the popularity of Windows to attract developers to its nascent tablet platform – that is why Windows desktop and laptop users must suffer the Metro interface.

          Second, the iOS features that Apple brought “Back to Mac” were optional, allowing users to continue using their Macs as they always have. In fact every OS X update has brought incremental and evolutionary changes that have been widely accepted by it’s user base. There has never been a Vista-like experiences in the world of Macintosh – not since Jobs return in 1997.

          • clone
          • 8 years ago

          who mentioned Apple?

          I don’t own Apple nor will I for a while to come.

          • TakinYourPoints
          • 8 years ago

          That’s because Apple hasn’t compromised the traditional GUI in the process of rolling in a few things from iOS. I complained about some of the changes in Lion, but at least these things are easy to ignore completely (Launchpad) or they integrate well with the normal UI (fullscreen apps). Nothing in Lion is as obtuse or jarring as similar functions (Metro and fullscreen Metro apps) in Windows 8.

          As much as we thought Apple was seemingly screwing things up with OS X Lion, Microsoft showed just how much worse things can be, it is pretty amazing. I’ve picked up Microsoft OSes for almost nothing with a friend’s employee discount for over a decade, and for now I think I’ll continue sticking with Windows 7.

        • bcronce
        • 8 years ago

        The point is research has shown that people use to the Win8 UI are more productive than people use to Win7 UI.

        Screw research, I DON’T LIKE IT!

          • Grigory
          • 8 years ago

          I am sure that there is research what would be the best car for people to drive. That doesn’t mean that people want drive it. Nobody buys something they don’t want to if they are not forced to somehow.

          • PeterD
          • 8 years ago

          Don’t believe the research.
          Win8 is made to gain marketshare on smartphones and tablets, not to make us more productive.
          Anyway: what kind of productivity? Most people use their tablets for gaming, for Cx’s sake.

            • bcronce
            • 8 years ago

            The research from one of the largest research labs in the world. You know, the one that MS owns. Bigger than Intel and IBM combined.

            And I wasn’t reading marketing info, I was reading blogs of people with PHDs in user interfaces. The kind of people who stake their diploma on the quality of their research.

          • JohnC
          • 8 years ago

          What research are you talking about? What kind of PC users participated in that research? What OS have they used before, and for how long, and for which purposes?

        • Aussienerd
        • 8 years ago

        Are you for real.

        Unless you crated an OS yourself then you use the product that they are offering, or don’t buy it.
        They are the ones creating it so, yes their way is right. If you don’t like it create your own.

        I hate the arrogance of people sitting in a forum telling people who are doing something in the real world, that they are wrong and they need to change to your way.

          • Voldenuit
          • 8 years ago

          The customer is king. And as a business, you have to work harder for the coin of the customer who didn’t want your product in the first place.

          • clone
          • 8 years ago

          it’s not arrogance to dislike something, just like garbage movies are garbage no matter how much effort went into them to make them garbage.

          MS’s Zune was garbage and it failed.
          Vista was crap and it hurt MS.
          WinME was garbage and it hurt MS.

          if consumers don’t like it then yes they are doing it wrong because the product in question is destined for consumers.

          a failure in the making is anyone hoping to provide a service a product or a lifestyle who ignores what ppl want from that service, that product and that lifestyle.

          whining that ppl aren’t interested is silly.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            HEY. Don’t knock Vista when it’s the same exact OS as 7, only you retain more of the original GUI. (Mojave Experiment) I accurately predicted windows 8 would be this bad from the direction Microsoft was taking 7. It’s only going to get worse. Eventually Windows will be indistinguishable from a Mac, and both OS’s will be unusable walled gardens. That’s the goal.

            • TEAMSWITCHER
            • 8 years ago

            I have the Mountain Lion developer preview and it is nothing like Windows 8. Applications designed for Mountain Lion are not recompiled versions of their iOS counterparts. This means that you can run ALL applications from the desktop in movable/resizable windows. You can also run the apps full screen if you desire, but the difference is you may choose how best to work, and you never have to leave the OS X desktop to do anything.

            With Windows 8, the Metro UI forces all applications to run full screen, or in flip mode (4/5 the screen) or dock mode (1/5 the screen) – there are no more movable/resizable windows. Think I’m wrong? Many of Windows 8 new features are Metro-only applications. Like the Start Screen and the App Store. Windows 8 has completely de-emphasized the Windows desktop experience.

            Now do you see the difference? If Microsoft is successful in converting all applications to Metro, then Windows will be something completely unlike OS X. In fact the very brand “Windows” will be a misnomer, as there won’t be any windows at all.

        • NewfieBullet
        • 8 years ago

        How exactly is anyone being forced to use Windows 8. If you don’t like it, use Windows 7 or Linux or buy a Mac. You always have a choice. Use it. Personally, I’ll be sticking with Windows 7.

      • clone
      • 8 years ago

      or I could stay with Win7 and be happy which I will do.

      I tried Vista 3 times, once for a week, once for a month and once for 6 months, went back to XP each time 2X’s because I hated it and the last because the OS became corrupt and while I didn’t like it I didn’t hate it enough to switch back until forced but as soon as the option became available I did go back.

      first time I installed Windows7 I liked it and still like it.

    • jjj
    • 8 years ago

    I was worried that the Charms bar will be a pain,since i tend to close maximized windows without even looking.
    I do see the Metro UI as bloat on desktop and notebook and the dumbed down, so called apps ,they are pushing for it aren’t helping.I’m not at all excited about touch monitors and laptops either,don’t want to poke at the screen,nor do i want fingerprints on it. Touch will also add to the cost quite a bit (a lot more than folks think).

      • toddos
      • 8 years ago

      Closing maximized windows works just fine. The hotspot for the charms bar brings it up, but does not highlight it and there’s no hit target for the charms bar in the corner. So worst case you fling your mouse to the top-right corner, get a flash of the transparent version of the charms bar, click, and close your app. Done.

    • crsh1976
    • 8 years ago

    Caveat: I have yet to play around with the CP of Windows 8

    Something strikes me as odd with the gazillion screenshots I’ve been seeing since the CP came out this week: everything looks over-designed. It looks great, but I’m not sure what that does for my productivity once the novelty of looking at cute stuff wears off (in fact, I’d wager the prettied-up UI hinders my productivity more than anything).

    Just my 2 cents.

      • Game_boy
      • 8 years ago

      “””””””Just my 2 cents””””””””

    • mightymightyme
    • 8 years ago

    I really found myself liking alot once I played with it for a while. The OS has a lot of similarities to Ubuntu’s Unity that I love. The quick typing feature for finding and launching apps is very fast, and a great way to launch applications. I really wish they would release the Office 15 beta to see how they play together.

    • sweatshopking
    • 8 years ago

    A) close metro apps by grabbing the top of them and dragging them down. works on the desktop too
    B) right click the bottom left of the desktop for many of the options you guys seem to be missing

      • ew
      • 8 years ago

      How am I supposed to know this without you telling me? There are no clues in this UI that help convey how do things. You just have to poke around until you get the behavior you desired. Or ask sweatshopking but I don’t want to rely on you. Nothing person. πŸ˜›

        • toddos
        • 8 years ago

        It’s a beta. Why would you expect a manual?

        Or, you know, watch all of the videos that accompanied the launch of the beta, showing you things like the hot corners, the swipe-down to re-arrange and/or close apps, the charms bar, etc.

          • yogibbear
          • 8 years ago

          Damn you I want my obnoxious moving and bouncing “Press START to begin!” back!…… I’m lost without it!

      • ecalmosthuman
      • 8 years ago

      I’m sorry, but closing apps by “grabbing…and dragging…” ALL SET.

        • toddos
        • 8 years ago

        You can also use the universal “close an app” shortcut key that we’ve all known and loved since (at least) Windows 95 — alt+F4.

        But that kinda misses the point that Metro apps don’t [b<]need[/b<] to be closed in the traditional sense. They'll suspend themselves nicely when you switch away, only taking up a small amount of RAM and no CPU. And if the RAM they're using is eventually needed elsewhere, they go away entirely.

      • End User
      • 8 years ago

      It is all terribly awkward.

    • slaimus
    • 8 years ago

    So it is very tablet centric right now. Can you test it on a tablet like the Acer W500?

      • burntham77
      • 8 years ago

      Check Amazon. There are people on there who have bought that tablet, and other Windows 7 tablets, and loaded Windows 8 onto it successfully. They say that it shines in a tablet environment.

    • codedivine
    • 8 years ago

    [quote<]and beheld... a fish?[/quote<] I completely lost it at this point πŸ˜€

      • cycomiko
      • 8 years ago

      Microsoft used the [url<]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betta[/url<] fish with Windows 7 beta as well. Is it really that difficult for people to grasp?

        • Grigory
        • 8 years ago

        Obviously. And sadly.

    • Voldenuit
    • 8 years ago

    ‘Outlook not so good’.

      • JustAnEngineer
      • 8 years ago

      “Cannot predict now”… “concentrate and ask again.”

      • chuckula
      • 8 years ago

      [quote<]'Outlook not so good'.[/quote<] This Magic 8 ball knows everything! I'll ask it about Exchange server next!

    • DragonDaddyBear
    • 8 years ago

    It’s better but I think it needs some work.

    I still think Ubuntu is a great OS for home users. My wife would be 100% lost in this and she couldn’t figure out any of OS X’s nice tricks. She went from Windows Vista/7 to Ubuntu’s Unity over night.

    Still, there is hope yet for Microsoft. I do think standardizing their interface accross all of their products (namely Xbox, Phone, and this desktop/tablet UI). Cudos. I’d say two steps forward, one step back.

      • khands
      • 8 years ago

      Personally I think they went a little overboard trying to get it unified, there’s a half way point between this and seven that’s missing.

        • DragonDaddyBear
        • 8 years ago

        That’s Microsoft’s usual way of things, but it doesn’t work for consumers. While companies LOVE backwards compatability, consumers don’t really care about upgrading. It works then they buy a new “something,” especially computers.

        Apple does this better than anyone. They draw clear lines. If you try to support too much your code blows up, becomes inefficent, and takes too long to develop. Microsoft is gambling here. But they need to maintain consumer awareness or risk futher market share. Let’s be honest, who cares about Windows any more? Most companies are still on XP!

        Manufactures need this break, too. They are having a hard time selling $$$ PC’s. Apple is the #1 $1,000+ computer maker. I have a feeling that this is huring Microsoft’s relationship with Dell and HP and the likes.

        And that middle step is the Destop “app.” If anything needs improvment, it’s the ability to use “8” with out touch. That would be the best “middle step” IMO.

        Sans prior thought, this is likely the best departure from the normal Microsoft in years and a gamble that will likely pay off. Considering the size of Micro$oft, Balmer should be given a big pat-on-the-back complement for successfully getting this far. \end rant

        EDIT: And the live tiles, if used right, is one of the coolest things Micro$oft has done in a long time. It’s what people wished Widgets were.

          • DragonDaddyBear
          • 8 years ago

          Anyone want to tell me why I have been down ranked?

            • Ringofett
            • 8 years ago

            I’d of been tempted to knock it one for asking who cares about Windows, when Win 7 has been a record breaker in the sales department. If there was incredible apathy towards Windows, Ubuntu, Mint & crew might be getting market share, but they’re still a rounding error. People might disagree with the analysis of it being a good move too, though I think the average Joe might like it a little more then the average TechReport reader. Got $1 that says MS caves and adds back in a very classic-style option for the desktop.

    • Game_boy
    • 8 years ago

    It’s a Betta fish. No deep meaning there.

      • Ari Atari
      • 8 years ago

      Well, it is a pun. Does that count as meaning?

        • ecalmosthuman
        • 8 years ago

        No.

    • BKA
    • 8 years ago

    These were my exact thoughts after using 8 for a while. I felt more unproductive than usual at work. I’m usually all for change. But this change is not for the better of the desktop and unless the Start button makes a reappearance I won’t be running this on my main desktop.

      • Mourmain
      • 8 years ago

      Maybe it just needs a little time for us to adapt? Any change for the better would have to fight against entrenched habits.

      The question is, does it prove to be better after a period of use?

        • BKA
        • 8 years ago

        I’m just saying if I have to go out and buy a touch screen monitor to fully enjoy Windows 8 it probably won’t happen.

      • TakinYourPoints
      • 8 years ago

      Businesses are going to stay away from this like the plague. Imagine the cost of support and retraining.

      It’ll be a replay of enterprise demanding Windows XP licenses when Vista was available, they’re going to demand Windows 7 while Windows 8 is out.

      • yogibbear
      • 8 years ago

      It took me about 2 weeks of regular use of word and excel to adapt to the ribbon and i actually PREFER the ribbon now that I know where everything is. The only thing I hate is having to go into the options and manage add-ons a bit more than usual for specific things.

      I expect it’ll take me ~2 weeks to get used to windows 8. I don’t like the metro thing but I’m sure I’ll learn how to get around it.

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