Personal computing discussed

Moderators: Captain Ned, emkubed

 
Kramer4President
Gerbil In Training
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:27 pm

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:57 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
And, flight is delayed a second time. Yeah, I'm posting this right after the prior message, but I'm sitting at the airport waiting on my flight and updating progress.

After dinner, and finding out I had another hour of "unplanned free time", I decided to give Ms Pacman a bit more love. While I was eating, it dawned on me that if the hsync signal wasn't making it to the monitor, then no amount of pot twisting would work. I had pulled the wiring harness connector off the filter board, but I hadn't disconnected the filter board from the main board. I didn't take pictures, but there was signs of some corrosion on the main board fingers. I re-installed the filter board and...

Image

Now totally stoked! Even better, the joystick and buttons all work. Each plays a different sound at the menu. Hit the credit switch on the back of the coin panel and...

Image

Image

You can't tell, from the crappy blurred picture, but Ms Pacman is all corrupted due to playing with half Pacman and half Ms Pacman ROMs since the daughter card is removed, but the game plays. Sound works and has more than enough volume. Joystick seems to respond well, as does the 2 player button. The 1 player button doesn't seem to do anything, but I'm assuming thats due to the DIP switch settings.

With a functioning system, I plugged the Ms Pacman daughter card back in and went back to the garbage screen in the first picture I posted. I pulled the daughter board off it's mount and started unsocketing chips. When the plastic from the socket for the middle EPROM came off with the EPROM... Well, that socket will have to be replaced. But, there wasn't any damage to the wipes and I fit the plastic back in place and plugged the EPROM back in. Plugging it all back together resulted in slightly different garbage on the screen. While I was looking at it, I noticed that there was a wire hanging loose off the ribbon cable that runs from the main board to the daughterboard. It looks like there was a problem with conductor #1, near where it entered the plug on the daughterboard, so someone snipped it back and soldered a jumper wire to it. However the other end was hanging loose. I tried plugging it into pin one on the socket, but that didn't do anything.

So, the mainboard works. I need to build a new ribbon cable, and replace all the socket on the daughter board. At least thats the start. I'm going to try and get the parts ordered this week, so they are waiting when I get home.

At this point, the decision has been made. The cabinet will get a full reconditioning. There didn't appear to be any burn in visible on the monitor, but the plexiglass is so dirty, it's hard to say what the actual state of the monitor is. I'll likely clean things up a bit more and turn up the brightness a little. If the monitor isn't too burnt in, I'll order a new set of caps for it, and the mainboard as well. I'll tackle all that when I pull the guts out to sand down the cabinet.

--SS

this is epic, you should find a local artist to work the paint, could be worth a pretty penny down the line
 
SecretSquirrel
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Topic Author
Posts: 2537
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: North DFW suburb...
Contact:

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:36 am

The Egg wrote:
SecretSquirrel wrote:
So now, I'm pondering how original to keep things. I am lucky enough to have a cabinet where everything is intact and is either functional or can be made so, in its original form. Take the power supply, for example. A new, high efficiency switcher is only about $35. Not a huge expenditure given I expect to be into this project for around $1k, including tools and stuff that this project will be an excuse to add to the shop. But, the cabinet isn't going to be on 24x7, maybe a couple hours a week, so efficiency isn't a huge deal. Lighting is another area. My first instinct is to replace all the incandescents with LED bulbs. I'm also certainly going to do that for everything I can find a LED equivalent that will go in the original socket. But what about the marque lighting? It's a fluorescent job. It doesn't come on now, and I'm going to assume the ballast is shot, along with the bulb. My thought would be to replace it with an LED unit of similar length. I also have a bunch of 12V white LED strip that I could use for the marquee, though that would require a new power supply.

I view powersupplies much like mechanical storage in old systems ----- since they don't really affect the experience (unless something's wrong), I don't care much about originality, and would rather have reliability and less screwing around. If the original PSU is dead, I'd get the new HE one. For marque lighting on the other hand, I'd go original. Not only to keep it looking the same, but also because it's easier.


In general, I agree.

In this case, the power supply, at least the parts external to the PCB is just a step down transformer. On the main PCB, its a few diodes, capacitors, a linear regulator, and a pass transistor. Because of the way the board voltages are generated, you have to feed the onboard linear supply and keep it functional, even if you do use a switcher in place of the transformer. The 12VAC input is rectified and sent directly to the audio amp, as well as feeding the voltage regulator input. So you can feed it with 12VDC, and feed the 5VDC side directly as well, so the regulator doesn't really do anything, but you have to keep all the parts of the original power supply functional, or you are likely going to short out your switcher. So all it saves you is the heat generated by the onboard regulator.

In the case of the marquee lighting, you will arguably add complexity going to LEDs, but reliability should increase as well. The existing lighting setup is a ballast transformer, starter, and fluorescent tube + socket. The stock setup appears to a 4100-4200K ~800 lumen bulb, though I'll need to verify when I get home. The setup is an old style preheat magnetic ballast so the most likely failure point is the starter with is a couple of bucks at the local home store. Assuming they have a bulb and starter, I'll likely pick one up for the time being. The $10 or so would be worth it to see the marquee lit while working on other stuff.

--SS
 
SecretSquirrel
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Topic Author
Posts: 2537
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: North DFW suburb...
Contact:

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:59 am

Kramer4President wrote:
this is epic, you should find a local artist to work the paint, could be worth a pretty penny down the line


If it was in a bit better shape, I would seriously consider keeping the original paint job and paying to have it restored. However, its in such bad shape that there isn't much point. You would have to repaint so much that you wouldn't really be able to claim it as a restored paint job. My plan is to strip it and sand it down to the work, then order a stencil set and repaint it. I've been looking for and excuse to buy a HVLP paint sprayer for my compressor, and this looks like a pretty good reason.

I'm going to take the control panel to a local shop to have it sand blasted and then powder coated and I'll order a new overlay for it. The current intent is to keep the original joystick and buttons, since they seem to work fine. The joystick, especially, I'd like to keep original, though obviously I'll replace the switches in it if I need to.

The monitor bezel will get replaced. I'm debating whether to go glass or acrylic for the main monitor overlay. The cabinet came with a piece of acrylic, already cut, but I haven't looked to see how much it has been damaged over time in storage and moving. It may get used as the overlay while I'm working on other parts of the cabinet.

It is possible that I can keep the original marquee. Looking at it, it doesn't appear to have much damage. It's going to come down to how faded it is.

On a tangential note, the nook were I plan to put it is wide enough to put two stand up cabinets side by side. If I remember correctly, its 59" wide, so two cabinets will fit perfectly with enough room on the sides to get some air flow. I already have the ok to have both Ms PacMan and Galaga. The original plan was the 20th anniversary combo cabinet, but stumbling across this changed the plans a bit. 1941 would be the other game I would love to have. Those were really the three that I spent lots of quarters on growing up. Both of us would love a pinball machine as well, but the space requirements are a bit of a problem there, not to mention the cost.

--SS
 
SecretSquirrel
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Topic Author
Posts: 2537
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: North DFW suburb...
Contact:

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:06 am

An interesting article I stumbled across.

https://retrobitch.wordpress.com/2019/0 ... -the-game/
 
FireGryphon
Darth Gerbil
Posts: 7646
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: the abyss into which you gaze

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:22 am

Great article. There’s something to be said for preserving the life of something.
Sheep Rustlers in the sky! <S> Slapt | <S> FUI | Air Warrior II/III
 
SecretSquirrel
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Topic Author
Posts: 2537
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: North DFW suburb...
Contact:

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:02 pm

Got home Friday night and had a box from Mouser waiting for me.

Saturday morning was time to tackle the daughterboard. Here is the patient. You can see the bad wire on the connector cable.
Image

We can rebuild it. We have the technology. ... Better than it was before. Part of the contents of the Mouser box. The sockets are still relatively cheap, but they are double wipe sockets. Replacing every socket on the board, even though the four 20 pin ones may not really need it. The blue items are the ribbon cable connectors.
Image

With all the chips pulled, you can see the top 24 pin socket is broken in the upper left.
Image

Just a hint for folks rebuilding. The EPROMs were marked with their board location, but the various 20 pin chips weren't, When you take things out, place them in relation to each other as the would appear on the board. Works for screws and bolts too.
Image

I was definitely tired of desoldering by the time I got everything off. It looked like someone had done some "repair" work on the U7 socket (the broken one). I doin't know if they had replaced it, or were trying to desolder it, or what, but there was an excess of old flux and if they had replaced it, their soldering skills left much to be desired. I washed and scrubbed the board to get ride of as much of the old flux as I could.
Image

I installed all the new sockets and tacked them in place, to ensure a good even installation. Also installed the two new electrolytic capacitors.
Image

Image

Soldering all the sockets was way faster than desoldering. Taking them off probably took two hours. Soldering the new ones in place? Maybe fifteen minutes. Twenty if you include washing the board to remove any new flux residue.
Image

Everything re-installed. I should probably break down and get an IDC connector tool. I have two pairs of large pliers that did the job just fine, but left some teeth marks on the plastic. Normally, when I do a project, I'll purchase any tools I need along the way and slowly build up my tool collection. I make cables so rarely that I didn't think it worth it. Kinda wish I had....
Image

So I knew the main board worked as a Pac-Man board. The question is "would my three hours of work bring it to life as a Ms Pac-Man?".
Yep! :D :lol:
Image

Image

I did find that the Player 1 button didn't respond, but everything else was functional. So now it was time to do some clean up work. I pulled the front glass of and removed the monitor bezel. I didn't take a picture of the monitor before I started, but man was it nasty. A bunch of cleaning later...
Image

So with the monitor clean and the smoked acrylic overlay off, I could see the actual state of the display. It's pretty burned in. I'll have to decide later if I want to spring for a replacement, or convert to an LCD (unlikely).

Cleaned the bezel and smoked acrylic sheet and put it back in place. The acrylic is in fairly decent shape, but will likely get replaced anyway as it is cheap and does have scratches in it. No way you could have 30+ year old acrylic that doesn't have scratches.
Image

The dirt coming of this machine is interesting, to say the least. I don't think it was well stored after it was retired from service and I suspect that it saw service in an establishment that saw a fair amount of smoke. This is the back side on the glass. You can see the bottom where the artwork is peeling up. I couldn't help but end up removing a bit while cleaning. It just flaked off. In the end, I'm going to get a new graphics overlay, and probably a new sheet of glass, so it's not the end of the world. The brown is "dirt". It took several passes to get it all off.
Image

Much cleaner now. If you compare to the previous, you can see the little bit of artwork that I ended up removing.
Image

All back together. You can just see the right hand latch for the control panel at the bottom of the picture.
Image

I didn't take pictures of it, but while I had the control panel off, I cleaned the cobwebs and dust out. One of the leaf switches on the joystick had gotten bent, though was still functional. It got straightened. All the switch contacts got a decent cleaning. That brought Player 1 switch back to life.

With everything cleaned up, you can actually make out what it one screen in normal lighting. It really was that bad.
Image

Image

With that, on to the marquee light, to see what things looked like there. I didn't take much in the way of pictures as it was pretty boring. Remember how I said the cabinet wasn't stored the best? This is the starter for the marquee light.
Image

That is a dirt dauber nest. The cabinet was full of them. That wasn't actually the problem with the light though. The ballast was shot. It was an open circuit when I probed it. I picked up a new electronic ballast and a new set of bi-pin sockets, as well as a 4100k 18" tube. I was actually really lucky in that I didn't even have to drill a new hole in the light fixture to mount the new ballast. Got it all wired up, and clean the marque while I was at it.
Image

The marquee is actually in really good shapre. There are a few scratches in the artwork paint at the very bottom, but you can't really even tell with it installed. Until I get new artwork to compare it against, I can't tell how faded it is, but if the colors are relatively close, I'll probably keep the original marquee.

I replaced both bulbs in the coin door. Out of curiosity, I tried the coin mechanisms. The right hand side worked almost immediately, and after running a few quarters through it to loosen things up, it seemed to be reliable. The left side just seemed to eat quarters. The coin chute showed some denting and deformation. When I took it apart, I found out why it wasn't working. It was jammed with two slugs, a quarter, a nickel, and a penny. So, along with a dime I found earlier, the cost of the cabinet has been reduced to $99.59. :lol: I straightened up the coin chute and put it all back together. Both side now, pretty reliably, accept quarters. If the counter is accurate, this machine has taken over 190k quarters in its lifetime. :o
Image

So what do I do now that I have a fully function Ma Pac-Man?
Image

Play it, of course!
Image

Today, I picked of a replacement power switch as calling to old one "functional" was a stretch at best. I also have a cord to replace the existing power cord. Someone had broken the ground prong off, probably so they could plug it in to a cheap, two-prong extension cord.

So what now? Well, the monitor needs some TLC. This is a picture take before I cleaned everything, which is why its fuzzy looking.
Image

You can see the non-uniform grid. I expect the monitor would benefit from a cap kit, though I need to consider whether i want to rebuild it, or replace it and get ride of all the burn in...

I also need to pull the main board and re-cap it. It seems reasonably stable, but there is a small bit of hum in the audio. I have all the caps, so I just need the time.

While I was digging around and cleaning, I realized what a find this machine is. It is an original, un-modified, Ms. Pac-Man. The wiring harnesses still have their factory id tags on them. Cabinet no 10371.
Image

So I'll probably re-cap the main board, then take a bit of a break on it as a project since the next step is going to be tearing everything out of the cabinet and starting the paint work.

--SS
 
BIF
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 7:41 pm

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:37 pm

Joust fan here. And also Defender, because it had hyperspace jumps! Missile Command and Galaga were depressing to watch, because those cities and ships never survived. Dig Dug gave me headaches. "Punch Out!" was at the 7-Eleven where I worked. All my shift long, I heard "Break", "Fight!", and "Body Block!" It kind of turned me off to those old machines.

Well done on this project so far. What do you plan to do about restoring the graphic artwork on the control panel and other places?
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 52435
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:43 pm

Man, I'd almost be inclined to leave the paint work as-is. Not out of laziness, but because the wear and tear is like battle scars to be proudly worn, befitting a machine of that vintage.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
SecretSquirrel
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Topic Author
Posts: 2537
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: North DFW suburb...
Contact:

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:27 am

BIF wrote:
Well done on this project so far. What do you plan to do about restoring the graphic artwork on the control panel and other places?


The plan for the side and kick plate are to sand them down an the redo the artwork from stencils, rather than going the large vinyl sticker route. The control panel will get re-powder coated and have a new screen printed overlay applied.

just brew it! wrote:
Man, I'd almost be inclined to leave the paint work as-is. Not out of laziness, but because the wear and tear is like battle scars to be proudly worn, befitting a machine of that vintage.


That thought had crossed my mind, especially when I was playing Saturday night and realized my hand was resting on the left edge of the cabinet just as noted in the article I posted earlier.

--SS
 
derFunkenstein
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 24925
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:28 am

I agree, I'd leave the shell like it is. Recap the board and the display if they need it, but it's the sign of an era. Wipe it down with a damp cloth if you must, but leave it in original condition.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Twittering away the day at @TVsBen
 
G8torbyte
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:09 pm
Location: NJ, near Philly
Contact:

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:41 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
That is a dirt dauber nest. The cabinet was full of them.


Friggin' dirt daubers!!! I don't miss them from living in the south. I hated cleaning those nasty nests out of sheds.
Very cool project! Love Ms Pac Man, visited her many times at Aladdin's Castle in malls during the 1980's.
Last edited by G8torbyte on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Later, -G8tor
Building PCs and gaming since"Chuck Yeager's Air Combat" 1991
Current setups: X99 Command/Control Station and DIY mini-ITX NAS Build
 
toki
Gerbil XP
Posts: 302
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:55 pm

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:07 pm

I always see people talk about a tron game that you stood up to play, but the tron game I remember is one that you sat in it to play. Tron man, tron! lol
 
BIF
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 7:41 pm

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:00 pm

toki wrote:
I always see people talk about a tron game that you stood up to play, but the tron game I remember is one that you sat in it to play. Tron man, tron! lol

Battletech had a clustered set of pods you could sit in and play against others. There were screens high and low in each pod and they had sound wired in each. Literally, you would sit INSIDE of these and shut the door behind you.

The only place I saw them was at Dave & Buster’s. But there were 6 or 8 pods, and you had joystick and throttle controls, as well as the ability to form teams and do battle with each other. Great fun!
 
MOSFET
Gold subscriber
Gerbil XP
Posts: 337
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:42 am

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:25 pm

I like that you stayed with fluorescents in the marquee. Very well-done job on those sockets. Interested to see how you proceed with monitor and art when the time comes.
Be careful on inserting this (or any G34 chip) into the socket. Once you pull that restraining lever, it is either a good install or a piece of silicon jewelry.
 
SecretSquirrel
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Topic Author
Posts: 2537
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: North DFW suburb...
Contact:

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:26 pm

Work continues. The main PCB has been re-capped. This may, or may not have made things better. Once I got the board back in, the display has gotten jumpy. Could just be a dirty edge contact. Could also just be coincidence. I have a cap kit for the monitor on order, along with a HV probe for discharging the monitor. Like so many projects, this one is going to result in new tools in the collection. :D

The board I have in the cabinet came installed with a speed chip. I burnt a regular 6F EPROM and installed it. I forgot how much harder Ms Pac-Man is at regular speed. :oops: In a blast from the past, I dug out my old EMP-10 programmer from Needham's Electronics. Many need programmers don't support the old 2532 EPROMs used on these boards. FreeDOS running in VirtualBox to run the software. People give me a hard time for still having a true serial/parallel IO card in my system. Occasionally it's very useful. :lol:

While I had the programmer running, I verified the all the board ROMs against the Mame images I have. They all match, other than the speed chip. I have ordered enough 2532A and 27C16 EPROMs to populate both my boards. Always good to have spares. The second board is going to take a bit of TLC. Somebody did strange things to it. I think they were trying to mod it to not need the daughter board.

Image

You can see the spaghetti someone soldered on. The EPROM at 6J is actually two stacked on top of each other. The top one has a single pin bent out with a wire soldered to it. The 74LS42 at 7N has had at least one pin pulled out of the board. It almost certainly needs to be replaced. I'm not sure what is under the big black blob at 6H. I haven't pulled it off yet.

I do want to try an restore this board to proper working order as it actually has a serial number on it. It's board 12404. The board I have in the cabinet doesn't have a serial number, unfortunately. I would have been thrilled to have a matching board and cabinet, but I cant' be that lucky.

I also have a replica Midway coin door plate on order as the one one the machine is in bad shape and it's unlikely that I can restore it without hurting the printing on it.

My plan is to make a temporary wiring harness to replace the coin door, mainly the credit switches, to keep the game playable and then take out the coin door and take it completely apart. I need to see if I can remove the rust from the shiny bits and polish them up, of it I need to order replacements. I might try and do that while I waiting on the cap kit and HV probe. Once they get in, it will be time to take everything apart. The monitor will come out to be cleaned and recapped. If that goes well enough, then I can continue with the referb. All the exterior metal will go off to get poweer coated. And I'll finally have to make a decision on the artwork....

Guess I need to clean up my upstairs hobby room so I have space to work on the monitor and test it out. :oops:

--SS
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 52435
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:50 am

toki wrote:
I always see people talk about a tron game that you stood up to play, but the tron game I remember is one that you sat in it to play. Tron man, tron! lol

There were two back in the day, released a year apart:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron_(video_game) (1982)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discs_of_Tron (1983)

The second one was produced in both stand-up and sit-down versions. I remember playing both at the arcade when I was in college.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
thegleek
Darth Gerbil
Posts: 7440
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 11:06 am
Location: Detroit, MI
Contact:

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:25 am

SecretSquirrel wrote:
I'm not sure what is under the big black blob at 6H. I haven't pulled it off yet.


The blobs are typically Dallas NVRAM ic's to save high scores. Maybe this was an attempt at an early high-score kit?

I don't think the hack job on the main pcb was to bypass the daughter pcb.
––•–√\/––√\/––•–– nostalgia is an emotion for people with no future ––•–√\/––√\/––•–-
 
SecretSquirrel
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Topic Author
Posts: 2537
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: North DFW suburb...
Contact:

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:51 pm

thegleek wrote:
SecretSquirrel wrote:
I'm not sure what is under the big black blob at 6H. I haven't pulled it off yet.


The blobs are typically Dallas NVRAM ic's to save high scores. Maybe this was an attempt at an early high-score kit?

I don't think the hack job on the main pcb was to bypass the daughter pcb.


I know what the Dallas NVRAMs look like and this isn't it. I pulled it and it has an EPROM of some sort on the bottom. Unfortunately, it is actually a blob of epoxy that was set in a form., so I can't tell more about the bottom chip, but it also has a spaghetti wire coming out as well. I was able to chip off the top of the epoxy and the top chip is a Midway PROM.

It's the fact that some of the wires were run to unused spots on the edge connector that make me think they were attempting to put a switch in. It also has two extra sockets that have been added and some other attempts at "re-work" on the bottom of the board.

--SS
 
ludi
Lord High Gerbil
Posts: 8250
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:47 pm
Location: Sunny Colorado front range

Re: Stumbled on a new project this weekend.

Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:33 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
That thought had crossed my mind, especially when I was playing Saturday night and realized my hand was resting on the left edge of the cabinet just as noted in the article I posted earlier.

Third option, preserve it in situ with a 2K clear coat.
Abacus Model 2.5 | Quad-Row FX with 256 Cherry Red Slider Beads | Applewood Frame | Water Cooling by Brita Filtration

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest