Personal computing discussed
Moderators: askfranklin, renee, emkubed, Captain Ned
DreadCthulhu wrote:Well, it looks VW is going to get pretty hammered in the US, where they sold 500,000 cars that were cheating. But what about Europe, where they sold some 8 million cars or so with a defeat device? Anyone have any idea what kind of penalties VW is going to face on the other side of the pond? Sure, the Germans will probably let them off with a slap on the wrist, but what about say France or Italy? Some bright member of those governments might realize that if they can toss VW into the legal crapper, it would probably help out Peugeot, Citroen, Renault, and Fiat sales.
morphine wrote:I'm a happy member of the EU and like the general environmental and energy concerns, but the system well and truly failed this time. We were supposed to have the tight pollution controls.
morphine wrote:I agree with the poster above. I'm a happy member of the EU and like the general environmental and energy concerns, but the system well and truly failed this time. We were supposed to have the tight pollution controls.
Chuckaluphagus wrote:Apparently, upper-level VW managers decided that the cost of being caught was likely to be very cheap while a law-abiding emissions control system would have added $300 to $350 to the cost of each diesel Volkswagen sold.The USA regulates nitrogen oxides much more strictly than Europe, and carbon dioxide much less so. The EU has the reverse.* The entire reason for the defeat mechanism was to try and fake past very stringent US NOx emission requirements with a vehicle that was theoretically designed to comply with EU regulations, all within a limited monetary budget.
Captain Ned wrote:morphine wrote:I agree with the poster above. I'm a happy member of the EU and like the general environmental and energy concerns, but the system well and truly failed this time. We were supposed to have the tight pollution controls.
Europe focuses on CO2 for climate change purposes whereas the US focuses on NOx for smog reduction purposes, and tech to reduce one often increases the other.
JustAnEngineer wrote:Apparently, upper-level VW managers decided that the cost of being caught was likely to be very cheap while a law-abiding emissions control system would have added $300 to $350 to the cost of each diesel Volkswagen sold.
Waco wrote:I wonder how they'll force owners to go for the buyback or fix. I know many who don't care and would rather have the original power + economy...
ludi wrote:AFAIK the entire state of California requires a bi-ennial (two-year) recertification for SMOG checking. A good chunk of Colorado does (some counties don't participate). Quite a few other states and/or major metro areas do as well, such as Chicago mentioned above. So, if the owner's vehicle is deemed noncompliant and they refused to obtain the manufacturer's free fix, I can't see them having many legal alternatives if their plate application is denied (other than transferring the vehicle to an unregulated jurisdiction).
just brew it! wrote:Yup. Rural owners might not be forced to do anything, but anyone who gets an emissions check will have to get the fix or be unable to register the vehicle.Waco wrote:I wonder how they'll force owners to go for the buyback or fix. I know many who don't care and would rather have the original power + economy...
I imagine in areas where there is mandatory verification of emission control systems (like here in the Chicago metro area) the state could deny license plate renewal. That'll only catch the ones in large metro areas with a smog problem (which is where the federal Clean Air Act mandates this verification), but that's where it matters the most.
superjawes wrote:just brew it! wrote:Yup. Rural owners might not be forced to do anything, but anyone who gets an emissions check will have to get the fix or be unable to register the vehicle.Waco wrote:I wonder how they'll force owners to go for the buyback or fix. I know many who don't care and would rather have the original power + economy...
I imagine in areas where there is mandatory verification of emission control systems (like here in the Chicago metro area) the state could deny license plate renewal. That'll only catch the ones in large metro areas with a smog problem (which is where the federal Clean Air Act mandates this verification), but that's where it matters the most.
Although I think it would be silly to completely avoid the fix. Sure, you might lose power/economy, but you'd get cash in your pocket. Alternatively, you can sell back the vehicle at a somewhat fixed price, avoiding the depreciation associated with flooding the used market (assuming that is how the buyback program works).
superjawes wrote:just brew it! wrote:I imagine in areas where there is mandatory verification of emission control systems (like here in the Chicago metro area) the state could deny license plate renewal. That'll only catch the ones in large metro areas with a smog problem (which is where the federal Clean Air Act mandates this verification), but that's where it matters the most.
Yup. Rural owners might not be forced to do anything, but anyone who gets an emissions check will have to get the fix or be unable to register the vehicle.
Although I think it would be silly to completely avoid the fix. Sure, you might lose power/economy, but you'd get cash in your pocket. Alternatively, you can sell back the vehicle at a somewhat fixed price, avoiding the depreciation associated with flooding the used market (assuming that is how the buyback program works).
just brew it! wrote:In IL they just connect a cable to the OBD port, and if there aren't any emissions-related codes you're good to go. I suppose they might have a different procedure for VW vehicles affected by the recall.
ludi wrote:just brew it! wrote:In IL they just connect a cable to the OBD port, and if there aren't any emissions-related codes you're good to go. I suppose they might have a different procedure for VW vehicles affected by the recall.
We have about a five minute ramping dyno test here, and both the tailpipe emissions and realtime OBD-II data are analyzed. There's also a brief visual inspection to verify the presence of the vapor-recovery equipment, and a pressure test of the fuel tank cap (for vehicles that aren't capless by design). New vehicles are exempt for a few years.
just brew it! wrote:I hope they've got iron-clad evidence of willful lawbreaking by the individual who was arrested. Otherwise this sets a precedent that I'm not entirely comfortable with.
NYT wrote:James Liang, a former Volkswagen engineer who worked for the company in California, pleaded guilty in September to charges that included conspiracy to defraud the federal government and violating the Clean Air Act. But Mr. Schmidt’s arrest brings the investigation into the executive ranks.
Glorious wrote:That engineer they indicted plead guilty a few months back. To conspiracy.
Thus he's almost certainly snitching and the Feds almost certainly have something substantive towards intent.