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CScottG
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:20 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
CScottG wrote:
The first scene was "wtf?".  I think I'd need a team of writers trying to explain that scene.  (I mean, you have just about an entire planet to hide in and the best you can do is confront something like 8 people when you have 3 (that could be trained to snipe from just about anywhere), have had all the time in the world to plan/plant traps etc.. and the person hiding is the engineer when it comes to weapons design, etc..)


It's a bit hard to take the rest of your criticism seriously when this slipped you by: he went for the singular purpose of making sure that there would be some way for the rebels to destroy the station. If he'd not gone, they'd eventually have finished it without him; killing the dudes that came for him wouldn't have changed that and would have put his family in more jeopardy.

That was his sacrifice.

Um, NO.

He most certainly did NOT want to go at that time (..and his wife sure as hell didn't want him to go).  It wasn't until later that he formulated his plan. Try to remember the holo "confession" he made, and how events progressed as he related in that confession. (..he wasn't "playing ball" when they re-acquired him, it was only after he'd seen how far they had progressed (presumably based on his original research) that he decided to put on the appearance of dedication to the Empire.)

Note: if it had been as you suggest then Forest's character (as a personal friend trusted enough to care for his daughter & wife, and a rebel leader to boot) would have known what he was trying to do..

The whole reason for the "farming planet" was to get away from the Empire so he wouldn't be forced to do research for the Empire at the threat of his wife and daughter. (..and I believe the Empire didn't know of the daughter until she raised her head at the farm, so it's likely they left at about the first trimester of the wife's pregnancy - ie. the added emphasis for getting away from the Empire.)

He of course did know that the Empire was coming for him from the moment he left, but the threat of his family (his wife as far as they knew) wasn't allowing him to NOT work for the Empire. If he get's taken again, he tell's them his wife is dead and can just tell them to go to hell - he won't help them (..though it's fine and dandy to say that until they start into torture).
 
Airmantharp
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:40 pm

Lol.

You mean later, when he had flashbacks about it?

Okay ;).
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CScottG
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:23 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
Lol.

You mean later, when he had flashbacks about it?

Okay ;).

Later - as in AFTER the first scene.  (..it's even the same in books in this respect - the scene between Erso and Krennic on "farm world" doesn't make sense. BTW, in the books the child was well known to Krennic - it just didn't seem that way with the dialog in the movie.)
 
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:47 pm

Are you talking about Catalyst?

If so she was 5 man! Sure Krennic knew her at 5 but shes matured and a whole different person. If you can spot a person whom you met at 5 and never seen for 16+ years out of a crowd well then.....kuddos to you. :roll:
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CScottG
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:13 pm

tanker27 wrote:
If so she was 5 man! Sure Krennic knew her at 5.. 

The dialog IN THE MOVIE (from what I remember) on the "farm world" did NOT suggest that Krennic knew about her. (..they talk about Erso's wife, and he lies saying she' dead, but I don't remember them talking about Erso's daughter at all - after all: they are both leverage over Galen.)
Again, the very first scene in the movie (confrontation between Krennic and the Erso's). 

..nothing to do with 16 year later scenes.
 
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Re: Rogue One

Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:41 am

/facepalm.......reread your post.

Krennic also says..."....and find the girl too." IN THE MOVIE.
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Re: Rogue One

Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:24 am

tanker27 wrote:
/facepalm.......reread your post.

Krennic also says..."....and find the girl too." IN THE MOVIE.

Correct, he specifically told his troopers to find her, hence the 10 minute long hide and seek scene that followed. If he didnt know she existed then what what were the stormtroopers looking for if they got what they came for.
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CScottG
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Re: Rogue One

Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:37 pm

tanker27 wrote:
/facepalm.......reread your post.

Krennic also says..."....and find the girl too." IN THE MOVIE.

Time to read it again. :wink:

He does say that, but I believe that's only upon seeing the girl when she pop's her head up from the hilly brush (and they spot her of course) - AFTER what happens to her mother.
 
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Re: Rogue One

Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:51 pm

CScottG wrote:
tanker27 wrote:
/facepalm.......reread your post.

Krennic also says..."....and find the girl too." IN THE MOVIE.

Time to read it again. :wink:

He does say that, but I believe that's only upon seeing the girl when she pop's her head up from the hilly brush (and they spot her of course) - AFTER what happens to her mother.

THAT'S IT! I'M JUST GOING TO HAVE TO SEE THE MOVIE AGAIN SO I CAN COME BACK AND SETTLE THIS!
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Re: Rogue One

Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:01 pm

MileageMayVary wrote:
CScottG wrote:
tanker27 wrote:
/facepalm.......reread your post.

Krennic also says..."....and find the girl too." IN THE MOVIE.

Time to read it again. :wink:

He does say that, but I believe that's only upon seeing the girl when she pop's her head up from the hilly brush (and they spot her of course) - AFTER what happens to her mother.

THAT'S IT! I'M JUST GOING TO HAVE TO SEE THE MOVIE AGAIN SO I CAN COME BACK AND SETTLE THIS!

LOL! :lol:

-really, it doesn't matter.  There were two major flaws in the first scene:

1. Galen, who is a genius with multiple talents and disciplines, knows what's coming (specifically Krennic) and the best strategy to deal with this problem is a lame-ass "I'm not what I used to be".. and "oh, my wife's dead" - so it won't do you any good to take me. Krennic has only to think about it for a nanosecond (..ok, maybe 1 or 2 seconds) to realize that it's a lie.

2. Krennic, who is pretty smart himself, has a major bargaining chip to hold-over Galen: taken-out.  There is NO WAY IN THE FAR, FAR AWAY GALAXY that would occur, even if he ALREADY had Galen's daughter as well. It would have been easy enough for the Deathtroopers to have reacted to the attack on Krennic as a retaliatory attack, and Krennic to have shouted something like: "..NO FOOL's, I need her".


It's just really bad writing.  Any scene should not only be plausible, but likely (..built up from whatever information is provided within that scene and before it).
 
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Re: Rogue One

Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:34 pm

CScottG wrote:
It's just really bad writing.  



I'm a huge SW fan. Read every book, every comic, and watch it like no one's business. Heck I went out of my way to download and covet Harmy's editions! But this ^, did you expect anything more? It's Star Wars for pete's sake, in every medium of it out there there is some god awful writing. (although Clones and Rebels are damn near perfect.)

Just enjoy it for what it is. Absorb the lore and enjoy it all, no need to dissect it like its a deep Kurosawa film. :wink:

MileageMayVary wrote:
THAT'S IT! I'M JUST GOING TO HAVE TO SEE THE MOVIE AGAIN SO I CAN COME BACK AND SETTLE THIS!


BWAHAHAHA
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Re: Rogue One

Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:47 pm

Actually for me it wasn't a matter of dissection initially: I was somewhat incredulous as I watched it.  It was very much a "WTF" moment - making me think I missed something (which I might have) as I was watching it - and this happened several times (for differing reasons) during the movie.

The dissection portion comes after watching: wondering why I did NOT like the movie (..overall), and then wondering why others are lauding it as one of the best movies of the entire series. It makes me question if we were even watching the same movie. :o  (..that reaction of: "dude, there were obvious glaring faults with this movie you think is so great".)

I've literally seen many better episodes of Disney's Star Wars Rebels animated series.

Still, there were many things I did like about the movie: the underlying story was good (with its integration into the series), Galen's motivation for (final) cooperation, striving to not loose hope especially in relation to the sacrifices that had already been made (and by one character in particular), a very well presented character with the droid, a "look" far more in-keeping with the original trilogy, a pretty good space battle (..that was only marginally jarring because of lack of light-shading on the ships) - and with one really good scene, a fantastic couple of cameos of Vader, etc..
 
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Re: Rogue One

Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:48 pm

I enjoyed the movie.I will say it was obvious that an ~84 year old James Earl Jones provided the voice for Vader; his lines were not nearly as menacing as they used to be.
 
Airmantharp
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Re: Rogue One

Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:00 pm

CScottG wrote:
tanker27 wrote:
/facepalm.......reread your post.

Krennic also says..."....and find the girl too." IN THE MOVIE.

Time to read it again. :wink:

He does say that, but I believe that's only upon seeing the girl when she pop's her head up from the hilly brush (and they spot her of course) - AFTER what happens to her mother.


I mentioned flashbacks to throw you a bone; apparently you're not willing to reconsider what you wrote.

So here's this: they *flash back* to a scene where Krenic is there with Galen Orso, Lyra, *and* their daughter Jyn, *before* he's off farming, *while* he's an Imperial Scientist.


The only thing I felt was puzzling while watching that opening scene was why he didn't kill himself, or why his wife didn't do it, to keep his knowledge away from the Empire, and that was explained in full in his vid to Jyn.
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CScottG
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Re: Rogue One

Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:16 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
CScottG wrote:
tanker27 wrote:
/facepalm.......reread your post.

Krennic also says..."....and find the girl too." IN THE MOVIE.

Time to read it again. :wink:

He does say that, but I believe that's only upon seeing the girl when she pop's her head up from the hilly brush (and they spot her of course) - AFTER what happens to her mother.


I mentioned flashbacks to throw you a bone; apparently you're not willing to reconsider what you wrote.

So here's this: they *flash back* to a scene where Krenic is there with Galen Orso, Lyra, *and* their daughter Jyn, *before* he's off farming, *while* he's an Imperial Scientist.


The only thing I felt was puzzling while watching that opening scene was why he didn't kill himself, or why his wife didn't do it, to keep his knowledge away from the Empire, and that was explained in full in his vid to Jyn.

Ok, I don't remember that - and as a byproduct: don't remember when it occurred in the movie (..it's not a matter of reconsideration - it's just not something I remember at all). (..and there were other scenes that were like that: the planet hopping scenes that I remember almost nothing of.) Scenes that are out of time break continuity for me (unless they are really compelling), and it's probably another thing that bothered me about the movie that I wasn't fully aware of.  (..and I'll note that others didn't explain that detail either; it make me wonder if others had a similar reaction.)

What I do remember of his vid to Jyn was about his recapture after they parted. His wife didn't kill him because he was precious to her, same as their child. He didn't kill himself at the farm because he didn't want to die, and he thought he could talk his way out of it (..a very stupid premise for a smart character). He didn't kill himself after being recaptured for the reasons he gave in the vid. (..which was totally believable - and a very nice background plot twist, but I don't remember his planning at that point having anything to do with his reasoning in the farm-world scene).
 
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Re: Rogue One

Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:46 am

I loved it.

Absolutely 100% best possible movie that they could make with this plotline. I went in expecting it to be a total disaster and Disney to ruin everything. Nope. It was flawless asides from like 3 lines of dialogue in the whole thing. Plot made complete logical sense. All the characters had reasonable and realistic motivations. All the "pandering/fanservice" was completely 100% logical and valid for it to be there. Loved it all. Raced home and watched A New Hope afterwards for the millionth time.

No idea what CScottG is on about. The first 30 minutes of the movie were some of the most Star Wars-y bits and honestly without that I would have hated it. Did not feel like they were jumping around for no reason. Those scenes were extremely important. None of them could have been removed or condensed in my opinion. Honestly reading CScottG's complaints sounds like he watched the movie drunk and wasn't paying attention :P oh well luckily it was soooo good we can all see it again and see who was right or wrong!

Now that we know Disney can handle a moderately darker story (wish it was darker... tbh), maybe they should do a Bobbafett spinoff instead of Han Solo. I'm still very worried about the Han Solo spin off....
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Re: Rogue One

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:10 pm

yogibbear wrote:

No idea what CScottG is on about. The first 30 minutes of the movie were some of the most Star Wars-y bits and honestly without that I would have hated it. Did not feel like they were jumping around for no reason. Those scenes were extremely important. None of them could have been removed or condensed in my opinion. Honestly reading CScottG's complaints sounds like he watched the movie drunk and wasn't paying attention  :P oh well luckily it was soooo good we can all see it again and see who was right or wrong!

:P :D
I didn't think they were jumping around for no reason, rather several of those planet-hopping scenes were too numerous (again, and again, and again) and weren't compelling enough (..to me obviously).  Also, I didn't remember the flashback scene at all (..not drunk, just so much more focused on the present actions of the scene that the "flashback" sequences didn't register in long-term memory).  I'm assuming here the flashback scene was a "new direction" to replace the scrolling text at the beginning to offer back-plot. Ironically, I like the scrolling text. Note: I do like the occasional short-lived planet-hopping scene, just not numerous scenes strung together.

Again though: none of this seems to negate my problems with Galen's and Krennic's actions (first scene). And the later hologram video (again, from what I remember) doesn't support planning at that time (first scene): the actions that occurred later (..working with the Empire for really good reasons). ..and I've not yet heard a valid argument for why the first scene "played-out" the way it did.. (Galen eating a phaser doesn't make sense either, not when there are SOOOOOOOOooooooooooo many other things he could have planned for - especially when his character is as smart as he is.)  Like-away, but that doesn't make the scene any more compelling. :wink:

(btw, I very much liked the look of it, and the acting in the first scene - more so than much of the rest of the movie, which in general was also good. The only actor's ability that was at best mediocre IMO was the second lead, who just absolutely had NO charisma, and even then most of my problems with him probably had more to do with scene direction and dialog scripting. ..Whitaker's character was pretty bad, but not for lack of character or charisma.  But the only substantive character I gave a mental cry-out to when watching its exit was the droid - and that's serious problem w/ the entire move; ALL of those character's should have elicited something greater than a "meh". The first scene "exit" was more of a "wtf"? - some emotion, particularly when "amplified" by the daughter, but mostly just jarring in it's pointlessness as an obvious bad plot device to create a condition where the daughter's life is horribly and irrevocably changed.)
 
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:36 pm

Finally got to see it. Major awesomeness.
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Re: Rogue One

Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:59 pm

CScottG wrote:
tanker27 wrote:
/facepalm.......reread your post.

Krennic also says..."....and find the girl too." IN THE MOVIE.

Time to read it again. :wink:

He does say that, but I believe that's only upon seeing the girl when she pop's her head up from the hilly brush (and they spot her of course) - AFTER what happens to her mother.

Just came back from seeing it again. The little girl is hiding nearby but they never spot her. Krennic says "They have a child! Find it!"
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Re: Rogue One

Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:28 pm

MileageMayVary wrote:
CScottG wrote:
He does say that, but I believe that's only upon seeing the girl when she pop's her head up from the hilly brush (and they spot her of course) - AFTER what happens to her mother.

Just came back from seeing it again. The little girl is hiding nearby but they never spot her. Krennic says "They have a child! Find it!"

Cool! :D

Was it better the second time? Also, did you remember the flash-back sequence (..that I'd totally forgotten)?  Finally, did you see (or not see/perhaps from some resolution I'd missed) the problem with Galen's approach (given his character) to his problem (of returning to the Empire), or was it as previously suggested that his reasoning was to actually return at that time with the intent of a saboteur?
 
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Re: Rogue One

Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:09 am

I didn't care for it. The CGI of Tarkin really irked me. Especially since there were a lot of scenes with "him" front and center. Leia was also very fake looking.

K2SO was by far my favorite character.
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Re: Rogue One

Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:18 am

Yeah, the "uncanny valley" seems to be most peoples #1 gripe.  I honestly didn't have that much hate for it (..perhaps because I was less than enthralled with the other characters).

I can understand Tarkin, but Leia - she just wasn't necessary to see "full frontal".  They should have just used her reflection in the window (or some other reflection point with a close-in) rather than having her turn around.  (..she was particularly fake looking IMO.) I could have also them doing the same for Tarkin (reflection, 1/4 turn, etc.) by cutting his script substantially; he was important to drive the antagonist (Krennic), but it could have been pared-down quite a lot.


-and yeah, K2SO was actually a good character.  ..there is a very similar tactical Droid named Kalani in the animated series Star Wars Rebels:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kalani_( ... ical_droid)

The 2 part final of last season's Star Wars Rebels: Twilight of the Apprentice, was (IMO) considerably better than Rogue One and The Force Awakens.. despite the fact that I'm not into "cartoons" (..and it couldn't have lasted more than 40 minutes combined - though perhaps there is genius in that).
 
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Re: Rogue One

Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:21 am

A couple other thoughts:

1) did the final space air battle between the rebel and imperial fleets bother anyone? The scale (size) of the imperial destroyers frequently seemed incorrect (too small). Also that the rebel fleet just pops into the middle of 3(?) Imperial destroyers and the destroyers barely fire a shot. Etc etc

2) there was a part in the movie (I can't remember who or where) that someone said to contact a person that did well "in the clone wars." Who was that a reference to? Did this person ever actually show up in rogue one?
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:52 am

I saw it and it was OK.

The first scene was fine. It could have used some more polish in the script department but it did what it needed to do.

My main issue for the first half of the movie is that I had to ask myself if the Rebels were the good guys. You have a Rebel intelligence officer kill another Rebel in cold blood because the information would slow him down while escaping. Then you have the Rebels doing a prison transport break. This is followed up by the Rebels performing an ambush on an Empire convoy where again, a Rebel intentionally kills another Rebel in the heat of combat. Oh and a copy of K2SO is killed when it was not clear that it wasn't him. Then they go try and get Galen but one of the Rebels was secretly going to assainate him. Seriously, these are the good guys?

I'm all for layers of gray in story telling but the story ends to set up the scenario for this level of desperation. Otherwise the plot is asking the viewer to not like these characters. Show me what the Empire is doing to the people to get them motivated to rebel. We only have Jyn's motivation setup, not the Rebellion's cause. Sitting between Ep 3 and 4 doesn't do much in this regard either. At the end of Ep 3 you have a power hungry Empiror and the slaughter of the Jedi but is that enough to create an open rebellion for the general public to join? The galactic senate doesn't get disbanded until Ep 4.

Saw's character just deciding to stay behind after being setup as such an extremist made no sense. Him dying while escaping the explosion would have been fine thematically as this was going to be one of those rocks fall and everyone dies affairs.

I liked Galen's message and the choices he made. That worked me and made me empathize for his situation.

The final act could have used some more polish. The guy who fell in the archive room should have stayed down as it was overly cliche that he came back. I personally thought it would have been more clever if K2SO copied himself into the other droid they scanned to get the facility map.

I did like the break down of things the Rebels had to do to get the plans off of the planet. I do think having AT-AT on the beach was a bit much but the space battle was really, really good. Loved the battering ram technique to bring down the shield.

The shot on the beach waiting for Death Star's blast to destroying the base was over done. In fact I thought they were already dead as the Death Star's shot clipped the top of the tower where they were.

Vader's role in the movie should have been more of a cameo. Him rampaging at the end was cool but unnecessary for the story. Same for CGI Leia being literally at the battle. It would have fit better if a pilot managed to escape the battle to meet up with Leia's ship. Ep 4's start wouldn't be compromised as Vader literally saw that ship escape from the battle where the plans were stolen! This also means that Leia saw the Death Star before being taken there in Ep 4 so even if they didn't have the plans, the secret super weapon was no longer secret.

CGI Tarken would have been fine if the animators didn't exaggerate or add unnecessary facial expressions. It looked like the studio wanted to show off their software than make good performance. CGI Leia was a bit in the uncanny valley but the animation there was fine.
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:57 am

DPete27 wrote:
2) there was a part in the movie (I can't remember who or where) that someone said to contact a person that did well "in the clone wars." Who was that a reference to? Did this person ever actually show up in rogue one?


I thought that they were referencing Obi Wan as they needed to give a reason for Leia to seek him out in Ep 4. Otherwise how would Leia know about Obi Wan to immediately seek him out given the movie's ending?
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:52 am

the wrote:
My main issue for the first half of the movie is that I had to ask myself if the Rebels were the good guys. You have a Rebel intelligence officer kill another Rebel in cold blood because the information would slow him down while escaping. Then you have the Rebels doing a prison transport break. This is followed up by the Rebels performing an ambush on an Empire convoy where again, a Rebel intentionally kills another Rebel in the heat of combat. Oh and a copy of K2SO is killed when it was not clear that it wasn't him. Then they go try and get Galen but one of the Rebels was secretly going to assainate him. Seriously, these are the good guys?

Maybe it was a reaction (or over-reaction?) on the part of the scriptwriters to all the flak Lucas caught over the "Han shot first" controversy? Or perhaps just an attempt to realistically portray the sort of moral ambiguity that comes up in real wars?
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:26 am

just brew it! wrote:
Or perhaps just an attempt to realistically portray the sort of moral ambiguity that comes up in real wars?

That's certainly the way I took it.
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:18 am

I thought it made sense in the narrative. Before they launch for the final mission, the rebels were talking about how they had all done things they weren't proud of and it would all be meaningless if they just abandoned the fight and ran from the empire.
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:59 pm

Okay, I hate these, but here's the quote/reply mash:
My main issue for the first half of the movie is that I had to ask myself if the Rebels were the good guys.

The problem here is that the Rebels aren't whitewashed. They ARE terrorists, they ARE rising against the legitimate (though unloved) Galactic government.
You have a Rebel intelligence officer kill another Rebel in cold blood because the information would slow him down while escaping.

Completely and totally wrong on multiple points. What you ACTUALLY have is a Rebel intelligence operative murdering an informant who is panicking and about to compromise both the informant and the handler. I would have done the same in that situation, and I wouldn't have even thought about it too much. If we are breaking the law and doing clearly illegal things, and you suddenly start talking about needing to turn yourself in, you may have a big surprise coming.
Then you have the Rebels doing a prison transport break.

Where did you think replacement Rebels come from? We can't wait for Mommy Rebel and Daddy Rebel to fall in love and spend 20-30 years making a replacement. You take the manpower you can get, where you can get it, and you just try to avoid compromising your moral stance to do so. This is WAR.
This is followed up by the Rebels performing an ambush on an Empire convoy

I see no problems here.
where again, a Rebel intentionally kills another Rebel in the heat of combat.

So I think I'm seeing the issue here. You're throwing around "Rebel" like they issue licenses and passports. You're thinking there's a High Rebel Council that approves all requests to immigrate to RebelLand. They're an insurgent movement. Saw's men are a RIVAL FACTION. They are NOT friends, not co-workers, not even necessarily allies. Getting a member of a schismatic and more militant/violent faction killed in combat is filed strictly under "Oh bummer", along with unintentional civilian kills.
Oh and a copy of K2SO is killed when it was not clear that it wasn't him.

So they had told K2-SO to stay in the ship. He had grumbled but agreed. There was no reason to think that ANY OF THEM were K2-SO. He shouldn't have been there at all, and I would have shot both, no question. They are DROIDS. You can't hold your fire because one looks just like your childhood droid nanny! It's a DROID. It will do as it is programmed to do!
Then they go try and get Galen but one of the Rebels was secretly going to assainate him. Seriously, these are the good guys?

Yeah. And? Do we only kill red coats in uniform, on the battlefield, while standing in proper lines, with opposing officers saluting properly, or do we do what needs doing, so that we win? "What needs doing" is very often some dark and terribly unpleasant stuff.
I'm all for layers of gray in story telling but the story ends to set up the scenario for this level of desperation. Otherwise the plot is asking the viewer to not like these characters.

I don't mean this to sound like a personal attack, but I think you should avoid researching any wars. I think it would upset you a great deal to find out how unclear the good guys/bad guys split can be, and I think the "shades of gray" would likewise confuse. Again, not meaning that as an attack.
Show me what the Empire is doing to the people to get them motivated to rebel.

They routinely exterminate and enslave entire planets? They performed an internal coup of a well-liked but terribly inept government? They SLAUGHTERED THE JEDI? Do you really need the list repeated in Rogue One? Did you forget it all? FFS, they are ACTIVELY building a weapon whose primary purpose is to VAPORISE PLANETS. Do you really think it would go unused, and be a deterrent?
We only have Jyn's motivation setup, not the Rebellion's cause. Sitting between Ep 3 and 4 doesn't do much in this regard either. At the end of Ep 3 you have a power hungry Empiror and the slaughter of the Jedi but is that enough to create an open rebellion for the general public to join? The galactic senate doesn't get disbanded until Ep 4.

Where do you draw the line? Sure, the Rebellion is getting up to speed, but something I think a lot of folks overlook; that's most of the Rebel fleet fighting at the end of Rogue One. At least 50% or so. Compare that to the fleet in ROTJ. It's only a few years later, and they have easily 10-20X the number of ships. Why? Because the Empire has advanced to more brutal methods. There are proto-Rebels planning for the worse case scenario as far back as Episode II. With the events of Episode III, they have the visible and clearly 'evil' acts they need to take up a flag and start resisting (Jedi purge). The Senate being dissolved in EpIV was less the shot heard round the world and more Pearl Harbor. The Rebels were already well underway, they just started getting more and more support from the general public.
Saw's character just deciding to stay behind after being setup as such an extremist made no sense. Him dying while escaping the explosion would have been fine thematically as this was going to be one of those rocks fall and everyone dies affairs.

Dude got no legs. Hard to run. He could see the explosion and the shock wave, knew there was little to no chance of surviving it. Sent the info and spies on their way and checked out as a martyr, with his army. I have no problems with that.
I liked Galen's message and the choices he made. That worked me and made me empathize for his situation.

I thought he was a real scumbag who deserved that blaster shot. Sure, he did the best he could to undermine and compromise the project, but his original reasons for rejoining were far from altruistic, and he joined for the money in the past. He was one of those flawed people trying to make up for past screwups by playing hero now. Better than sitting back and doing nothing, but even better to stand up, throw down your tools, and die shouting the truth when you first realize you're building superweapons.
The final act could have used some more polish.

The whole MOVIE needed more polish, or not to have been gutted and reshot on short notice. You missed a lot of signs that the movie was torn apart and taped back together, but noticed the overall disjointedness.
The guy who fell in the archive room should have stayed down as it was overly cliche that he came back.

Yeah well, that was one of many casualties of the reshoots. Originally Krennic did not go to the tower, Cassian did not magically get up and catch up to the action. Even further back, before the first reshoots? Cassian never fell, and Krennic waded through the shallows to the shore through dead troopers, while Cassian and Jyn ran away across the beach. Welcome to the continuity hell that is reshoots.
I personally thought it would have been more clever if K2SO copied himself into the other droid they scanned to get the facility map.

I expected that, so I'm kind of glad that didn't happen. It would have been happier, but predictable. I don't mind my heroes dying for a good cause. Having them come back next movie for 'Reasons' cheapens that.
I did like the break down of things the Rebels had to do to get the plans off of the planet. I do think having AT-AT on the beach was a bit much but the space battle was really, really good.

I didn't think the AT-ACTs were a problem. They matched up well with the capabilities of the AT-ATs we saw later. X-Wing blasters are lots more powerful than the ones on the snowspeeders. What DOES confuse me is the explanation. AT-ACTs are written up as being heavy cargo lifter variant AT-ATs. Specifically Death Star parts are mentioned. If so, why were they on Scarif? No direct connection between Scarif and the Death Star exists in the final theatrical cut. I'm guessing originally the DS was constructed in orbit of Scarif, under that shield. Just a guess, though.
Loved the battering ram technique to bring down the shield.

You mean the corvette with a suicide vest that drove the disabled ISD into the other one, killing thousands? It was like watching the USS Stark bombing all over again! (I mostly kid)
The shot on the beach waiting for Death Star's blast to destroying the base was over done. In fact I thought they were already dead as the Death Star's shot clipped the top of the tower where they were.

They weren't on the tower, Krennic was. I felt that entire bit was hammy and crappily done. I initially thought the shot clipping the tower and landing a mile behind it was a miss or something, I was very disappointed in that gunner's targetting. I guess he was trained to hit planet-scale targets only.
Vader's role in the movie should have been more of a cameo. Him rampaging at the end was cool but unnecessary for the story.

My problem with this scene was Vader transitioning from this combat monster here to the old man in a suit ineffectively flailing with Obi-Wan a few hours later. Vader's level of physical prowess has been WILDLY inconsistent through the various movies and shows.
Same for CGI Leia being literally at the battle. It would have fit better if a pilot managed to escape the battle to meet up with Leia's ship. Ep 4's start wouldn't be compromised as Vader literally saw that ship escape from the battle where the plans were stolen! This also means that Leia saw the Death Star before being taken there in Ep 4 so even if they didn't have the plans, the secret super weapon was no longer secret.

The Death Star was not at Scarif until the very end of the battle. She may not have gotten a very good look. Also, rewatch Episode IV. She isn't shocked. She is captured by Vader in the first minutes and doesn't reappear till mid-movie. She never had time to tell anyone about the Death Star, but she knew about it. The part that SHOCKED her was the main superweapon firing at full power and turning her peaceful homeworld full of traitors into a peaceful planetary dust cloud full of electrons. I was waiting for them to screw that up in Rogue One, but they very painstakingly called out "single reactor ignition" and only shot at single-city-sized targets. Thus Leia seeing the full power shot wipe out Alderaan in IV still works.
CGI Tarken would have been fine if the animators didn't exaggerate or add unnecessary facial expressions. It looked like the studio wanted to show off their software than make good performance. CGI Leia was a bit in the uncanny valley but the animation there was fine.

I agree on Tarkin. They made his face move much more than Peter Cushing did. I'm guessing the real Cushing look came across as wooden-faced.... You know, like Cushing actually looked, and the studio disagreed. I thought CGI Leia had the opposite problem. I left RO thinking she looked plastic-y and overly glossy. Therefore, as soon as I got home, I pulled up EpIV and looked at her scenes. Sure enough, she looks plastic in EpIV, and her lips in particular are so red and so glossy that they look inhuman.

Leia compare, if anything her lips were much redder in IV, though super-shiny in both:
https://i.imgur.com/uHtRCVF.jpg
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:22 pm

Forge wrote:
...
I agree on Tarkin. They made his face move much more than Peter Cushing did. I'm guessing the real Cushing look came across as wooden-faced.... You know, like Cushing actually looked, and the studio disagreed. I thought CGI Leia had the opposite problem. I left RO thinking she looked plastic-y and overly glossy. Therefore, as soon as I got home, I pulled up EpIV and looked at her scenes. Sure enough, she looks plastic in EpIV, and her lips in particular are so red and so glossy that they look inhuman.

Leia compare, if anything her lips were much redder in IV, though super-shiny in both:
https://i.imgur.com/uHtRCVF.jpg

Even Fisher herself commented on it in her memoir:
Carrie Fisher wrote:
Who wears that much lip gloss into battle?
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