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Glorious
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:30 pm

JBI wrote:
Or perhaps just an attempt to realistically portray the sort of moral ambiguity that comes up in real wars?


Next you are going to start telling me that the "independent contractors who were working on the uncompleted Death Star were innocent victims"!
 
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:31 pm

alloyD wrote:
I thought it made sense in the narrative. Before they launch for the final mission, the rebels were talking about how they had all done things they weren't proud of and it would all be meaningless if they just abandoned the fight and ran from the empire.

Agreed. Rogue One put the "war" in Star Wars. This was a war movie set in a fictional universe we all know so well. My favorite book of all time is Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, and it is the most terrifying depiction of the horrors of war I have ever read/watched. The titular character, the "hero," at the end orders an act of genocide and her words when it is done are haunting: "I shudder at the depth of my sin."

In war, "good" and "bad" are a matter of perspective. It's all about "allies" and "enemies."
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:38 pm

Glorious wrote:
JBI wrote:
Or perhaps just an attempt to realistically portray the sort of moral ambiguity that comes up in real wars?


Next you are going to start telling me that the "independent contractors who were working on the uncompleted Death Star were innocent victims"!

Well... is it any different than "nuking the sh1t out of ISIS"? Using massively destructive force (or the threat thereof) to quell a guerilla uprising? To bring it into real life terms, does anyone who builds or designs weaponry with only one purpose- to kill other people if it has to be used- think him/herself a "bad guy"?

Jyn's father hated what he was doing, as did many who were clearly forced labor. But others were just "doing their job" in their minds.
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:52 pm

I should have hyperlinked that. Sorry.

What I said is a quote from a movie in which people talk about the moral ambiguities implicitly inherent in the original films. Before even the prequels were made.

In other words, I was subtly confirming what JBI said. I just don't see how this sort of thing is out of place in Rogue One (which I haven't seen). It's always been there, from the Cantina scene onwards (at least until Lucas "fixed his 'glitch'"), but a movie dealing with espionage is probably going to put it out there much more prominently than a movie about an Iowan farm boy drafted by destiny to fly a plane in the battle of midway. The latter is about purpose and glory, the former about ambiguity and how identity is a wilderness of mirrors.
 
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:05 pm

There was a lot of moral ambiguity in the movie - which I thought was good.  (..there is also a lot of back-plot in this story that is NOT being represented by any of the movies (including this one), rather it's pulled from a series of books).

The problem however, is that many of the scenes showing it - did NOT have characters "working through" those situations as they happened.

Ex. Rebel executes Rebel informer for security and expediency, with little more than an emotional "oh well" - and not even a sarcastic "sucks to be you - oh well". 

-and that's just poor scene writing and direction that leads to characters you neither love nor hate. :(
 
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:25 pm

After watching this movie, I came to the conclusion that Rogue One = Starwars: Red shirt edition.

I really, really, really wish that at least one of the characters... preferably the lead, had survived and maybe had some kind of parallel storyline that we didn't know before. Rogue one feels like a missed opportunity and a waste, in hindsight.
 
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:31 pm

I agree that the characters were mostly bland, other than K-2SO, but that's probably largely because Alan Tudyk.
 
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:42 pm

CScottG wrote:
(..there is also a lot of back-plot in this story that is NOT being represented by any of the movies (including this one), rather it's pulled from a series of books).


Uhhh.... why would it be? Didn't Disney publicly announce it wouldn't be doing that not long after the purchase?

Like, that horse has left the stable, and Disney has good reasons for it. I can imagine better things to do with my creative types than making them reference an insane filemaker pro database with tens of thousands of entries. I'm not sure why people are still acting as if this is a thing, maybe it was, but it's over now.

CScottG wrote:
The problem however, is that many of the scenes showing it - did NOT have characters "working through" those situations as they happened.


I don't know, I didn't see it. Even then, I don't even really understand what you are trying to convey. What does "working through" a situation have to do with the moral ambiguity of it?

In the original movies they seemed to jump from situation to situation with little time for introspection, you know, "boring conversation anyway" and "I bet you have" kind of stuff.
 
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:47 pm

captaintrav wrote:
I agree that the characters were mostly bland, other than K-2SO, but that's probably largely because Alan Tudyk.

Chirrut Imwe and K2-SO were the highlights of the movie for me.
Other than that, it felt like a very competent but completely unnecessary footnote to the mythology and saga of the franchise.
Still better than TFA, though, but that's not saying much, since TFA was your favorite band getting together for a reunion tour once they'd blown all their money on drugs and prostitutes.
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:49 pm

I just saw the movie yesterday.  It made sense to me that the characters wouldn't spend a lot of time reflecting on the unfortunate choices they had to make at times.  At the time of the story those involved in the rebellion have been living in these conditions for quite a while, so it's not like this is something new they'll have to struggle with and figure out.  Andor says as much at one point while trying to explain things to Jyn.
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:46 pm

Glorious wrote:
CScottG wrote:
The problem however, is that many of the scenes showing it - did NOT have characters "working through" those situations as they happened.


I don't know, I didn't see it. Even then, I don't even really understand what you are trying to convey. What does "working through" a situation have to do with the moral ambiguity of it?

In the original movies they seemed to jump from situation to situation with little time for introspection, you know, "boring conversation anyway" and "I bet you have" kind of stuff.

Working through that thought process and reaction when faced with doing something despicable even if it's for "the greater good", or even if it's just for that person's own "good". The ambiguity is: do I murder someone for myself or my cause (and particularly someone who isn't a straight-up bad guy), or allow a potential and likely catastrophe to occur by not doing so: both decisions are awful and there needs to be a personal accounting for the character making this decision IF that character isn't a psycopath and you want to have some emotional connection to them.  This isn't a matter of defense, or just another faceless storm trooper.

The scene that I'm speaking of actually did have some personal reflection by the character, but it was very poorly done - and it didn't setup enough emotional drama for a later scene in the movie that (tried) to show the anguish in already having committed multiple atrocities .  Plus, it pretty much *was* the point of the movie: the Rogue is very much a villain even if he happens to be one of the protagonists.
 
-I think it was mostly just bad direction. (..in the amount of time that they spent on the scene vs. what really mattered about the scene.)
 
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:00 pm

CScottG wrote:
Working through that thought process and reaction when faced with doing something despicable even if it's for "the greater good", or even if it's just for that person's own "good". The ambiguity is: do I murder someone for myself or my cause (and particularly someone who isn't a straight-up bad guy), or allow a potential and likely catastrophe to occur by not doing so: both decisions are awful and there needs to be a personal accounting for the character making this decision IF that character isn't a psycopath and you want to have some emotional connection to them. This isn't a matter of defense, or just another faceless storm trooper.


Again, I haven't seen the movie, but what you are talking about doesn't seem to fit the tone of the original franchise.

Or, you know, adventure/action movies in general.

Han Solo originally shot first. People actually seem to identify with him better than the Han Solo who comically shoots second after Greedo fires a warning shot at an imaginary tinkerbell flying a foot above and two feet the left of where Han was sitting.

But, you know, sure.
 
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:09 pm

Glorious wrote:
Again, I haven't seen the movie, but what you are talking about doesn't seem to fit the tone of the original franchise.

Or, you know, adventure/action movies in general.

Han Solo originally shot first. People actually seem to identify with him better than the Han Solo who comically shoots second after Greedo fires a warning shot at an imaginary tinkerbell flying a foot above and two feet the left of where Han was sitting.

But, you know, sure.

Hey Glorious, I think I know what's askew.

Judging a War Movie by Action Movie standards might be the issue here. Sure, it's Star Wars... but not as we know it, and certainly not as a remix of the Hero's Journey.

Apologies if you already grokked that and you were making a point that I missed.
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:19 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
Apologies if you already grokked that and you were making a point that I missed.


I don't know, I guess I need to see the movie because I can't understand what exactly either CScottG or "the" are even getting at.
 
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:27 pm

I liked RO. I say we need more movies like this, where nobody survives. :P No, really! How do you reduce Hollywood's puffy-chested self-importance? No more sequels, no more reprisal roles. All of a sudden, Hollywood actors have to get the job and then OWN IT every time.

Maybe if they're busy enough finding new roles, some of them might get off their high horses and leave the rest of us alone.

Voldenuit wrote:
...TFA was your favorite band getting together for a reunion tour once they'd blown all their money on drugs and prostitutes.


I liked TFA, but man this was really very funny! :lol:
 
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Re: Rogue One

Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:27 pm

Glorious wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
Apologies if you already grokked that and you were making a point that I missed.


I don't know, I guess I need to see the movie because I can't understand what exactly either CScottG or "the" are even getting at.

Yeah.  But do NOT go into it thinking it's like the original franchise, it isn't.  Instead it's the gritty back-story that allowed the Rebels to actually be effective.
 
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:18 am

DPete27 wrote:
A couple other thoughts:

1) did the final space air battle between the rebel and imperial fleets bother anyone?  The scale (size)  of the imperial destroyers frequently seemed incorrect (too small).  Also that the rebel fleet just pops into the middle of 3(?) Imperial destroyers and the destroyers barely fire a shot.  Etc etc

I tried looking up the "scale" of the ships - the problem is that there are apparently several classes of Imperial Destroyers, so while it may not have looked right - presumably it was a smaller class of Destroyer.

The Destroyers should have been shown with more command/tactical problems during the battle a'la Star Trek (..interior personnel scrambling), as it was: I think you are correct, a pathetic reaction for what should have been far superior forces.  (..they could have even shown the command as arrogant when the Rebel ships arrived, like "our shields are more than a match for their pathetic freighters, lets just deploy our Tie Fighters to mop up this rabble".. or something like that.)


..I personally had more problems with the lighting. When they started into the battle it was like full light-sources from all directions to get a good view of everything, when instead there should have been numerous "black" areas (including shadows created from structures on the ship).
 
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:02 am

Forge wrote:
The problem here is that the Rebels aren't whitewashed. They ARE terrorists, they ARE rising against the legitimate (though unloved) Galactic government.

I'd be fine with Rebels being terrorists if I had some idea of why they were fighting. Ep 4 set this up rather well with the Empire hunting Luke down and in the process massacred his adoptive family. Sure, we do have the scene where Jyn's mother is killed but it didn't seem like it was in the Empire's plan do to so though the Empire really didn't care either way as they got Galen as they ultimately wanted. This scene sets up Jin's motivations in the story but not the Rebellion's.

Forge wrote:
Completely and totally wrong on multiple points. What you ACTUALLY have is a Rebel intelligence operative murdering an informant who is panicking and about to compromise both the informant and the handler. I would have done the same in that situation, and I wouldn't have even thought about it too much. If we are breaking the law and doing clearly illegal things, and you suddenly start talking about needing to turn yourself in, you may have a big surprise coming.

I get that the informant being there complicated the escape, not only because the informant was physically handicapped but are correct about the panicking. There was just no 'get yourself together' speech as the Empire's troops were closing in. It was more 'screw this' and then blam blame blame with the blaster. That's fine for setting up the character as some one truly ruthless but goes against the idea of the Rebels being the good guys early on as we are not shown anything worse from the Empire.

Forge wrote:
Yeah. And? Do we only kill red coats in uniform, on the battlefield, while standing in proper lines, with opposing officers saluting properly, or do we do what needs doing, so that we win? "What needs doing" is very often some dark and terribly unpleasant stuff.

I have no problem with doing what needs to be done as long as I understand the motivations behind those actions. We got taxation without representation and the Boston Massacre as reasons to go after the red coats. The audience doesn't get to see what it is like to live under Empire rule or similar events that take place which would form a large open rebellion. The audience doesn't get the opportunity to learn why blatant terrorism is necessary.

Forge wrote:
I don't mean this to sound like a personal attack, but I think you should avoid researching any wars. I think it would upset you a great deal to find out how unclear the good guys/bad guys split can be, and I think the "shades of gray" would likewise confuse. Again, not meaning that as an attack.

The thing with historical wars is that we can look up the causes for it. In this movie the audience is thrust into conflict after it had started without establishing why one side is doing what they are doing. I would consider the Death Star and its ability to destroy planet as a reason to fight toward its destruction or the disbanding of the Senate in Ep 4. Those reason happen chronologically after the beginning of this movie.

Forge wrote:
They routinely exterminate and enslave entire planets? They performed an internal coup of a well-liked but terribly inept government?

We don't get to see your first example at all. That'd be plenty of reason to fight but the audience doesn't get shown that. The internal coup we see in Ep 2 and Ep 3 are within the rules the galactic senate. And well if they're willing to follow the pleas of Jar Jar to create an chancellor with vast authority, then the galactic senate got what they deserved. This highlights some of the major story issues in the prequels.

Forge wrote:
They SLAUGHTERED THE JEDI? Do you really need the list repeated in Rogue One? Did you forget it all?

The Jedi were slaughtered because their failed coup to take down the Emperor. The problem here is that Jedi didn't go to the Senate with evidence to then dispose of the Emperor. Rather they want directly to him to confront him and were betrayed by Anakin. Basically if weren't directly involved with the Jedi during this time frame, you had no reason to believe that the attempted coup on he Emperor didn't go down as was stated. Where did the main characters in this story get their motivations having not directly witnessing what took place in Ep 3?

Forge wrote:
FFS, they are ACTIVELY building a weapon whose primary purpose is to VAPORISE PLANETS. Do you really think it would go unused, and be a deterrent?

Order of operations on this one. The Death Star is a perfectly valid reason to organize a rebellion in hopes of stopping that planet killing weapon. They don't know about this weapon until middle this movie until after we see plenty done by the Rebels.

Forge wrote:
]Where do you draw the line? Sure, the Rebellion is getting up to speed, but something I think a lot of folks overlook; that's most of the Rebel fleet fighting at the end of Rogue One. At least 50% or so. Compare that to the fleet in ROTJ. It's only a few years later, and they have easily 10-20X the number of ships. Why? Because the Empire has advanced to more brutal methods. There are proto-Rebels planning for the worse case scenario as far back as Episode II. With the events of Episode III, they have the visible and clearly 'evil' acts they need to take up a flag and start resisting (Jedi purge). The Senate being dissolved in EpIV was less the shot heard round the world and more Pearl Harbor. The Rebels were already well underway, they just started getting more and more support from the general public.

I'll do you one better. In Ep 4 we actually get to see how life is under the Empire. Luke's family was killed for just buying the droids which unknown to Luke's family had the Death Star plans. It was pure purge mode. Those scenes in Ep 4 did more to setup how evil the Empire was than we get early on in Rogue One. Ep 7 does a lot more to setup the first order as the new evil in the galaxy by brutal purge of the camp in the beginning of the movie with Kylo Ren. A scene like that is exactly what Rogue One needed in the beginning to balance out the acts that the 'good guy' Rebels were doing.

Forge wrote:
Dude got no legs. Hard to run. He could see the explosion and the shock wave, knew there was little to no chance of surviving it. Sent the info and spies on their way and checked out as a martyr, with his army. I have no problems with that.

He was an extremist and it would have fit his character to have tried to survive. It would have been fine narratively to have him die trying considering his legs. The cliché 'don't worry about me and save yourself scene'. Instead we just get 'I'm fine with that explosion behind me. I'm gonna stand here and chill. How about them Space Yankees?'

Forge wrote:
The whole MOVIE needed more polish, or not to have been gutted and reshot on short notice. You missed a lot of signs that the movie was torn apart and taped back together, but noticed the overall disjointedness.

This we agree on. I did spot a few things that were different that what was shown in the earlier trailers. Still better than the sloppiness of the prequels.

Forge wrote:
Yeah well, that was one of many casualties of the reshoots. Originally Krennic did not go to the tower, Cassian did not magically get up and catch up to the action. Even further back, before the first reshoots? Cassian never fell, and Krennic waded through the shallows to the shore through dead troopers, while Cassian and Jyn ran away across the beach. Welcome to the continuity hell that is reshoots.

Yeah, the scenes of them running on the beach with the Death Star plans was in an early trailer. I couldn't tell that Krenmic going to the tower was a reshoot, just horribly out of character. In fact, him on that planet seems contrived. It would have fit the Star Wars lore better if he survived the Rebel heist only to be kill off by Vader for his failures which results in Tarken becoming its governor.

Forge wrote:
You mean the corvette with a suicide vest that drove the disabled ISD into the other one, killing thousands? It was like watching the USS Stark bombing all over again! (I mostly kid).

Yeah. It just needed Michael Dorn yelling 'prepare for ramming speed!' on the bridge.

Forge wrote:
They weren't on the tower, Krennic was. I felt that entire bit was hammy and crappily done. I initially thought the shot clipping the tower and landing a mile behind it was a miss or something, I was very disappointed in that gunner's targetting. I guess he was trained to hit planet-scale targets only.

Yeah that scene is clunky. I remember them heading toward the elevator to get out but never actually leaving the base until surprise cut, we're on the beach now! Hency the surprise that they're alive for a few more moments after the blast clipped the tower.

Forge wrote:
Vader's role in the movie should have been more of a cameo. Him rampaging at the end was cool but unnecessary for the story.

My problem with this scene was Vader transitioning from this combat monster here to the old man in a suit ineffectively flailing with Obi-Wan a few hours later. Vader's level of physical prowess has been WILDLY inconsistent through the various movies and shows.[/quote]
Agreed. Vadar got nerfed for Ep 4.


Forge wrote:
The Death Star was not at Scarif until the very end of the battle. She may not have gotten a very good look. Also, rewatch Episode IV. She isn't shocked. She is captured by Vader in the first minutes and doesn't reappear till mid-movie. She never had time to tell anyone about the Death Star, but she knew about it. The part that SHOCKED her was the main superweapon firing at full power and turning her peaceful homeworld full of traitors into a peaceful planetary dust cloud full of electrons. I was waiting for them to screw that up in Rogue One, but they very painstakingly called out "single reactor ignition" and only shot at single-city-sized targets. Thus Leia seeing the full power shot wipe out Alderaan in IV still works.

In Ep 4 it was clear that she knew of the Death Star before arriving on it. Via hologram she tells Obi Wan the importance of the data on the droids.



Forge wrote:
I agree on Tarkin. They made his face move much more than Peter Cushing did. I'm guessing the real Cushing look came across as wooden-faced.... You know, like Cushing actually looked, and the studio disagreed. I thought CGI Leia had the opposite problem. I left RO thinking she looked plastic-y and overly glossy. Therefore, as soon as I got home, I pulled up EpIV and looked at her scenes. Sure enough, she looks plastic in EpIV, and her lips in particular are so red and so glossy that they look inhuman.

Yeah, the stiffness of Tarken in Ep 4 is just the cool demeanor of a disciplined military officer. It was appropriate for the role.

Leia just seems to reside in the uncanny valley but it wasn't due to her animation. It was the eyes and skin tone that did it for me.
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:12 pm

Maybe they are working their way backwards in time with the Star Wars Story franchise.. Maybe the next one will be a piece between Ep. 3 and Rogue One... :D
 
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:31 pm

druidcent wrote:
Maybe they are working their way backwards in time with the Star Wars Story franchise.. Maybe the next one will be a piece between Ep. 3 and Rogue One... :D


TBH, personally, I am good with that. The Clone Wars and Rebels toons have been top notch. I am ok with RO especially after reading the Rogue One: The Utimate Visual Guide. It just flesh's out the universe and quite honestly gives Disney a chance to tag the plethora of information out there as cannon.

Case in point...those of you that have played Knights of the Old Republic know some of the story behind Taris. Disney made it Cannon in RO because one of the Ambassadors in the Alliance is from Taris; Senator Tynnra Pamlo of Taris.
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:48 pm

Glorious wrote:
Next you are going to start telling me that the "independent contractors who were working on the uncompleted Death Star were innocent victims"!

Nobody is innocent. You are all guilty!

Guilty!

GUILTY!
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:10 pm

Definitely my favorite of the Star Wars movies.  It was simple, fun, and at times frightening in the way the movie drew viewers into battle.  The scene where the walkers appeared and the scene where Darth Vader was storming the ship were terrifying.  I'm old enough to have seen all of the movies in the theater and this one was the most fun.
 
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:39 pm

For reference from what I consider better despite its obvious flaws:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x410f69

(..I don't think I can stress this enough: it should be seen with a good stereo system in the dark for best effect, and of course at its highest resolution.)

It's heavy-handed in a cartoon fashion (..Ezera is a definite blunt stereotype), because it is a cartoon. Visually - again, a cartoon. Falls from great heights without obvious use of the force to slow the drop - another obvious flaw (..and why do I think Wiley Coyote with an Acme anvil about to drop on him after landing???). Characters like Kanan and particularly Ahsoka getting better and then worse and then better again in battle - oh so comic-book. 

Still.. IF interested - see what you think of it. In particular - do you have a connection with the characters, a substantive level of empathy? Was the mood good? Did the dialog have purpose? How about the music conveying the scene? Was the "set" good (..even though it was a digital drawing?). etc.. ..and of course was the plot interesting?
 
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:46 pm

druidcent wrote:
Maybe they are working their way backwards in time with the Star Wars Story franchise.. Maybe the next one will be a piece between Ep. 3 and Rogue One... :D

Well, since one of the Disney stand-alones is supposed to be Han Solo's origin story, I think you'll get your wish.
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:11 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
druidcent wrote:
Maybe they are working their way backwards in time with the Star Wars Story franchise.. Maybe the next one will be a piece between Ep. 3 and Rogue One... :D

Well, since one of the Disney stand-alones is supposed to be Han Solo's origin story, I think you'll get your wish.

Ok, who in Hollywood is young, looks somewhat like Harrison Ford, and ooooooooozes charisma?
 
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:52 pm

CScottG wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
druidcent wrote:
Maybe they are working their way backwards in time with the Star Wars Story franchise.. Maybe the next one will be a piece between Ep. 3 and Rogue One... :D

Well, since one of the Disney stand-alones is supposed to be Han Solo's origin story, I think you'll get your wish.

Ok, who in Hollywood is young, looks somewhat like Harrison Ford, and ooooooooozes charisma?



He's already been cast: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2403277/
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tanker27
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:59 pm

CScottG wrote:
For reference from what I consider better despite its obvious flaws:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x410f69

(..I don't think I can stress this enough: it should be seen with a good stereo system in the dark for best effect, and of course at its highest resolution.)

It's heavy-handed in a cartoon fashion (..Ezera is a definite blunt stereotype), because it is a cartoon. Visually - again, a cartoon. Falls from great heights without obvious use of the force to slow the drop - another obvious flaw (..and why do I think Wiley Coyote with an Acme anvil about to drop on him after landing???). Characters like Kanan and particularly Ahsoka getting better and then worse and then better again in battle - oh so comic-book. 

Still.. IF interested - see what you think of it. In particular - do you have a connection with the characters, a substantive level of empathy? Was the mood good? Did the dialog have purpose? How about the music conveying the scene? Was the "set" good (..even though it was a digital drawing?). etc.. ..and of course was the plot interesting?



/facepalm

If you hate it so much why do you watch it?
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Airmantharp
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:09 pm

tanker27 wrote:
/facepalm

If you hate it so much why do you watch it?


I've been silently asking myself this since his first post...
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CScottG
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:01 pm

tanker27 wrote:
/facepalm

If you hate it so much why do you watch it?

..did I say I hate it?  
 
CScottG
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Re: Rogue One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:03 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
tanker27 wrote:
/facepalm

If you hate it so much why do you watch it?


I've been silently asking myself this since his first post...

..and what was my first post?

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