The problem here is that the Rebels aren't whitewashed. They ARE terrorists, they ARE rising against the legitimate (though unloved) Galactic government.
I'd be fine with Rebels being terrorists if I had some idea of why they were fighting. Ep 4 set this up rather well with the Empire hunting Luke down and in the process massacred his adoptive family. Sure, we do have the scene where Jyn's mother is killed but it didn't seem like it was in the Empire's plan do to so though the Empire really didn't care either way as they got Galen as they ultimately wanted. This scene sets up Jin's motivations in the story but not the Rebellion's.
Completely and totally wrong on multiple points. What you ACTUALLY have is a Rebel intelligence operative murdering an informant who is panicking and about to compromise both the informant and the handler. I would have done the same in that situation, and I wouldn't have even thought about it too much. If we are breaking the law and doing clearly illegal things, and you suddenly start talking about needing to turn yourself in, you may have a big surprise coming.
I get that the informant being there complicated the escape, not only because the informant was physically handicapped but are correct about the panicking. There was just no 'get yourself together' speech as the Empire's troops were closing in. It was more 'screw this' and then blam blame blame with the blaster. That's fine for setting up the character as some one truly ruthless but goes against the idea of the Rebels being the good guys early on as we are not shown anything worse from the Empire.
Yeah. And? Do we only kill red coats in uniform, on the battlefield, while standing in proper lines, with opposing officers saluting properly, or do we do what needs doing, so that we win? "What needs doing" is very often some dark and terribly unpleasant stuff.
I have no problem with doing what needs to be done as long as I understand the motivations behind those actions. We got taxation without representation and the Boston Massacre as reasons to go after the red coats. The audience doesn't get to see what it is like to live under Empire rule or similar events that take place which would form a large open rebellion. The audience doesn't get the opportunity to learn why blatant terrorism is necessary.
I don't mean this to sound like a personal attack, but I think you should avoid researching any wars. I think it would upset you a great deal to find out how unclear the good guys/bad guys split can be, and I think the "shades of gray" would likewise confuse. Again, not meaning that as an attack.
The thing with historical wars is that we can look up the causes for it. In this movie the audience is thrust into conflict after it had started without establishing why one side is doing what they are doing. I would consider the Death Star and its ability to destroy planet as a reason to fight toward its destruction or the disbanding of the Senate in Ep 4. Those reason happen chronologically after the beginning of this movie.
They routinely exterminate and enslave entire planets? They performed an internal coup of a well-liked but terribly inept government?
We don't get to see your first example at all. That'd be plenty of reason to fight but the audience doesn't get shown that. The internal coup we see in Ep 2 and Ep 3 are within the rules the galactic senate. And well if they're willing to follow the pleas of Jar Jar to create an chancellor with vast authority, then the galactic senate got what they deserved. This highlights some of the major story issues in the prequels.
They SLAUGHTERED THE JEDI? Do you really need the list repeated in Rogue One? Did you forget it all?
The Jedi were slaughtered because their failed coup to take down the Emperor. The problem here is that Jedi didn't go to the Senate with evidence to then dispose of the Emperor. Rather they want directly to him to confront him and were betrayed by Anakin. Basically if weren't directly involved with the Jedi during this time frame, you had no reason to believe that the attempted coup on he Emperor didn't go down as was stated. Where did the main characters in this story get their motivations having not directly witnessing what took place in Ep 3?
FFS, they are ACTIVELY building a weapon whose primary purpose is to VAPORISE PLANETS. Do you really think it would go unused, and be a deterrent?
Order of operations on this one. The Death Star is a perfectly valid reason to organize a rebellion in hopes of stopping that planet killing weapon. They don't know about this weapon until middle this movie until after we see plenty done by the Rebels.
]Where do you draw the line? Sure, the Rebellion is getting up to speed, but something I think a lot of folks overlook; that's most of the Rebel fleet fighting at the end of Rogue One. At least 50% or so. Compare that to the fleet in ROTJ. It's only a few years later, and they have easily 10-20X the number of ships. Why? Because the Empire has advanced to more brutal methods. There are proto-Rebels planning for the worse case scenario as far back as Episode II. With the events of Episode III, they have the visible and clearly 'evil' acts they need to take up a flag and start resisting (Jedi purge). The Senate being dissolved in EpIV was less the shot heard round the world and more Pearl Harbor. The Rebels were already well underway, they just started getting more and more support from the general public.
I'll do you one better. In Ep 4 we actually get to see how life is under the Empire. Luke's family was killed for just buying the droids which unknown to Luke's family had the Death Star plans. It was pure purge mode. Those scenes in Ep 4 did more to setup how evil the Empire was than we get early on in Rogue One. Ep 7 does a lot more to setup the first order as the new evil in the galaxy by brutal purge of the camp in the beginning of the movie with Kylo Ren. A scene like that is exactly what Rogue One needed in the beginning to balance out the acts that the 'good guy' Rebels were doing.
Dude got no legs. Hard to run. He could see the explosion and the shock wave, knew there was little to no chance of surviving it. Sent the info and spies on their way and checked out as a martyr, with his army. I have no problems with that.
He was an extremist and it would have fit his character to have tried to survive. It would have been fine narratively to have him die trying considering his legs. The cliché 'don't worry about me and save yourself scene'. Instead we just get 'I'm fine with that explosion behind me. I'm gonna stand here and chill. How about them Space Yankees?'
The whole MOVIE needed more polish, or not to have been gutted and reshot on short notice. You missed a lot of signs that the movie was torn apart and taped back together, but noticed the overall disjointedness.
This we agree on. I did spot a few things that were different that what was shown in the earlier trailers. Still better than the sloppiness of the prequels.
Yeah well, that was one of many casualties of the reshoots. Originally Krennic did not go to the tower, Cassian did not magically get up and catch up to the action. Even further back, before the first reshoots? Cassian never fell, and Krennic waded through the shallows to the shore through dead troopers, while Cassian and Jyn ran away across the beach. Welcome to the continuity hell that is reshoots.
Yeah, the scenes of them running on the beach with the Death Star plans was in an early trailer. I couldn't tell that Krenmic going to the tower was a reshoot, just horribly out of character. In fact, him on that planet seems contrived. It would have fit the Star Wars lore better if he survived the Rebel heist only to be kill off by Vader for his failures which results in Tarken becoming its governor.
You mean the corvette with a suicide vest that drove the disabled ISD into the other one, killing thousands? It was like watching the USS Stark bombing all over again! (I mostly kid).
Yeah. It just needed Michael Dorn yelling 'prepare for ramming speed!' on the bridge.
They weren't on the tower, Krennic was. I felt that entire bit was hammy and crappily done. I initially thought the shot clipping the tower and landing a mile behind it was a miss or something, I was very disappointed in that gunner's targetting. I guess he was trained to hit planet-scale targets only.
Yeah that scene is clunky. I remember them heading toward the elevator to get out but never actually leaving the base until surprise cut, we're on the beach now! Hency the surprise that they're alive for a few more moments after the blast clipped the tower.
Vader's role in the movie should have been more of a cameo. Him rampaging at the end was cool but unnecessary for the story.
My problem with this scene was Vader transitioning from this combat monster here to the old man in a suit ineffectively flailing with Obi-Wan a few hours later. Vader's level of physical prowess has been WILDLY inconsistent through the various movies and shows.[/quote]
Agreed. Vadar got nerfed for Ep 4.
The Death Star was not at Scarif until the very end of the battle. She may not have gotten a very good look. Also, rewatch Episode IV. She isn't shocked. She is captured by Vader in the first minutes and doesn't reappear till mid-movie. She never had time to tell anyone about the Death Star, but she knew about it. The part that SHOCKED her was the main superweapon firing at full power and turning her peaceful homeworld full of traitors into a peaceful planetary dust cloud full of electrons. I was waiting for them to screw that up in Rogue One, but they very painstakingly called out "single reactor ignition" and only shot at single-city-sized targets. Thus Leia seeing the full power shot wipe out Alderaan in IV still works.
In Ep 4 it was clear that she knew of the Death Star before arriving on it. Via hologram she tells Obi Wan the importance of the data on the droids.
I agree on Tarkin. They made his face move much more than Peter Cushing did. I'm guessing the real Cushing look came across as wooden-faced.... You know, like Cushing actually looked, and the studio disagreed. I thought CGI Leia had the opposite problem. I left RO thinking she looked plastic-y and overly glossy. Therefore, as soon as I got home, I pulled up EpIV and looked at her scenes. Sure enough, she looks plastic in EpIV, and her lips in particular are so red and so glossy that they look inhuman.
Yeah, the stiffness of Tarken in Ep 4 is just the cool demeanor of a disciplined military officer. It was appropriate for the role.
Leia just seems to reside in the uncanny valley but it wasn't due to her animation. It was the eyes and skin tone that did it for me.