Personal computing discussed

Moderators: askfranklin, renee, emkubed, Captain Ned

 
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Posts: 25427
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:08 pm

Some of this stuff is "this other website does this really well, and TR should get into it" and that's a recipe for dying a swift death. It's a lot of investment into a space where someone else already dominates. I think if coverage was expanded, it'd be better to expand it into something that nobody else does (or does well).
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Twittering away the day at @TVsBen
 
Vhalidictes
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1835
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: Paragon City, RI

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:23 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Some of this stuff is "this other website does this really well, and TR should get into it" and that's a recipe for dying a swift death. It's a lot of investment into a space where someone else already dominates. I think if coverage was expanded, it'd be better to expand it into something that nobody else does (or does well).

That's a good thought, but it's kind of tangential to the issue of "not enough articles published of any type".

Sure, TR would take risks branching out, no doubt of that. But I currently only visit the main page twice a week (Tuesdays and Fridays, typically) because new TR content is that infrequent.

EDIT: Even I was surprised. Is this the latest article? The front page re-orders stuff upon refreshing so I can't be completely sure.
 
Mr Bill
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1819
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Colorado Western Slope
Contact:

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:03 pm

I see your view derFunkenstein. I just thought maybe TR could get review units more easily if a youtube presentation was offered. It seems like the last few releases of hot hardware, only those darned youtube reviewers got any units.
X6 1100T BE | Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ | XFX HD 7870 | 16 GB DDR3 | Samsung 830/850 Pro SSD's | Logitech cherry MX-brown G710+ | Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex mouse | SeaSonic SS-660XP 80+ Pt | BenQ 24' 1900x1200 IPS | APC Back-UPS NS-1350 | Win7 Pro
 
DancinJack
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4494
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:28 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
That's a good thought, but it's kind of tangential to the issue of "not enough articles published of any type".

EDIT: Even I was surprised. Is this the latest article? The front page re-orders stuff upon refreshing so I can't be completely sure.


I'm not sure where it was decided that the sheer number of articles was the issue? It may be for some, but honestly that's not really close to the top of the list for me. TR has always been about quality, and not necessarily quantity. The big items got covered, and covered super well. My biggest issue is that isn't happening anymore.

I think that if this (the qty) is the issue for most people, then there is a simple solution. You can check other places (and it sounds like people are, so don't take this as me telling you what to do. that isn't my intention ). I know no one wants to do that, but if there just isn't enough news for some it's easy to find other places.

http://techreport.com/archive.x?types=articles - This should show you all reviews in reverse chronological order by default.
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
Vhalidictes
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1835
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: Paragon City, RI

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:43 pm

DancinJack wrote:
I'm not sure where it was decided that the sheer number of articles was the issue?  It may be for some, but honestly that's not really close to the top of the list for me.  TR has always been about quality, and not necessarily quantity.  The big items got covered, and covered super well.  My biggest issue is that isn't happening anymore.  

High quality reviews are more important, sure. Where can I find the testing results for the new Kaby Lake i5 and i3 series? I'd like to see the i3 results in particular because it would make a good proxy for the new HT Pentium performance. 

(Sure, I could go to Bench (not that RyanTech has a i3 review either), but the point is that I'd prefer to see the TR results)

Also, thanks for that link!
 
DancinJack
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4494
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:48 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
I'm not sure where it was decided that the sheer number of articles was the issue?  It may be for some, but honestly that's not really close to the top of the list for me.  TR has always been about quality, and not necessarily quantity.  The big items got covered, and covered super well.  My biggest issue is that isn't happening anymore.  

High quality reviews are more important, sure. Where can I find the testing results for the new Kaby Lake i5 and i3 series? I'd like to see the i3 results in particular because it would make a good proxy for the new HT Pentium performance.


You mean at other places? I know it's not everything we want, but it's something!

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... 50k-review (i3 7350K)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10968/the ... champion/6 (looks like they have a 7600K)

Edit: You meant TR. That's what I said above. TR just isn't getting the same hardware they used to (at least that's how i figure it...) I can't imagine someone is holding onto a 7600K and 7350K behind the scenes at TR and we just haven't heard.
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Posts: 25427
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:54 pm

Mr Bill wrote:
I see your view derFunkenstein. I just thought maybe TR could get review units more easily if a youtube presentation was offered. It seems like the last few releases of hot hardware, only those darned youtube reviewers got any units.

Ah, that may be. It's kind of a gamble, but if it paid off it'd be great. Thing is, those Youtubers that got review units are also pulling down way more views than the average, too.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Twittering away the day at @TVsBen
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25690
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:59 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Mr Bill wrote:
I see your view derFunkenstein. I just thought maybe TR could get review units more easily if a youtube presentation was offered. It seems like the last few releases of hot hardware, only those darned youtube reviewers got any units.

Ah, that may be. It's kind of a gamble, but if it paid off it'd be great. Thing is, those Youtubers that got review units are also pulling down way more views than the average, too.

And the price to pay there may be the review cannot badmouth the product/vendor. Do you really want editorial independence be compromised for the sake of more review units?
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
Mr Bill
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1819
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Colorado Western Slope
Contact:

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:01 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
Mr Bill wrote:
I see your view derFunkenstein. I just thought maybe TR could get review units more easily if a youtube presentation was offered. It seems like the last few releases of hot hardware, only those darned youtube reviewers got any units.

Ah, that may be. It's kind of a gamble, but if it paid off it'd be great. Thing is, those Youtubers that got review units are also pulling down way more views than the average, too.

And the price to pay there may be the review cannot badmouth the product/vendor. Do you really want editorial independence be compromised for the sake of more review units?
I suppose the idea would be to present the best aspects (per the manufacturer's desire) to the youtube audience and the written article can be more thorough and honest in its evaluation.
X6 1100T BE | Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ | XFX HD 7870 | 16 GB DDR3 | Samsung 830/850 Pro SSD's | Logitech cherry MX-brown G710+ | Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex mouse | SeaSonic SS-660XP 80+ Pt | BenQ 24' 1900x1200 IPS | APC Back-UPS NS-1350 | Win7 Pro
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25690
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:15 pm

Mr Bill wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
Ah, that may be. It's kind of a gamble, but if it paid off it'd be great. Thing is, those Youtubers that got review units are also pulling down way more views than the average, too.

And the price to pay there may be the review cannot badmouth the product/vendor. Do you really want editorial independence be compromised for the sake of more review units?
I suppose the idea would be to present the best aspects (per the manufacturer's desire) to the youtube audience and the written article can be more thorough and honest in its evaluation.

I'm sorry, but IMO this is the line that should not be crossed.
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
Mr Bill
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1819
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Colorado Western Slope
Contact:

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:18 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
I'm sorry, but IMO this is the line that should not be crossed.
I pretty much agree and maybe Scotts presence at AMD will give us a little boost in that department. Just so we don't have to cross that Rubicon.
X6 1100T BE | Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ | XFX HD 7870 | 16 GB DDR3 | Samsung 830/850 Pro SSD's | Logitech cherry MX-brown G710+ | Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex mouse | SeaSonic SS-660XP 80+ Pt | BenQ 24' 1900x1200 IPS | APC Back-UPS NS-1350 | Win7 Pro
 
CScottG
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1252
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:59 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Mr Bill wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
And the price to pay there may be the review cannot badmouth the product/vendor.  Do you really want editorial independence be compromised for the sake of more review units?

I suppose the idea would be to present the best aspects (per the manufacturer's desire) to the youtube audience and the written article can be more thorough and honest in its evaluation.

I'm sorry, but IMO this is the line that should not be crossed.

I fail to see why the line would have to be crossed.
A video does NOT have to include any subjective commentary.
Nor does NOT having subjective comments mean that the video/content-creators have become less honest.
 
Captain Ned
Global Moderator
Posts: 28704
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:08 pm

CScottG wrote:
A video does NOT have to include any subjective commentary.

A video going out over your byline implies editorial approval of ny and all statements made in the video. Bad/sick/wrong. Maintain editorial independence and forsake the "Tom's Hardware" cash to keep one's integrity.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Posts: 25427
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:32 pm

That's just the top of the slippery slope. TR would be better off shuttering the site than giving up editorial freedom for a couple YouTube dollars. A video without "opinion" is basically just an ad. See the RX 460 builds/advertorials at Hexus and PCPer for an example of what you're inviting.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Twittering away the day at @TVsBen
 
MOSFET
Gerbil XP
Posts: 373
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:42 am

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:37 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Some of this stuff is "this other website does this really well, and TR should get into it" and that's a recipe for dying a swift death. It's a lot of investment into a space where someone else already dominates. I think if coverage was expanded, it'd be better to expand it into something that nobody else does (or does well).


While I believe this has been mentioned, things that really glued me to this site over the years were articles like Geoff's SSD Endurance Experiment, Scott's Inside the Second breakout, and The Skylake Review Featuring Broadwell. There are others, but those clearly illustrate the scientific talent of the staff along with a good-natured writing style. I think this is what TR does extremely well, and it is what I personally would like to see more of. And sure, churn out an occasional copied-and-pasted SSD or mobo review - I still appreciate the main headlinings acts, like the Asus review to go with Kaby Lake release. It shouldn't be too difficult (aside from product procurement, but hey you guys do buy stuff for yourselves, occasionally, right?) to round out the coverage of some of the larger commodity parts, without devoting too much time to the journalism. There's a Samsung 960 Pro product release, and appropriate review, and then there's a Patriot Hellfire release. Testing time might be the same, but don't waste too many words on the Hellfire, I would say, as an example of a way to "round out the coverage" of said commodity parts categories.

An occasional surprise article would be awesome, and take these as mere examples, as I believe some are probably too basic for our crowd, like an HTPC build with software and settings and remote(s); a homelab setup with vSAN, Active Directory, and a Win10 DirectX9 gaming VM; software defined networking and storage; programming tips from Bruno or others; some behind the scenes looks (or diagrams) of the TR infrastructure; all the various gizmos it takes to run a website these days. I guess these are some ideas about the things I would get a kick out of reading about.
Be careful on inserting this (or any G34 chip) into the socket. Once you pull that restraining lever, it is either a good install or a piece of silicon jewelry.
 
CScottG
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1252
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:04 am

Captain Ned wrote:
CScottG wrote:
A video does NOT have to include any subjective commentary.


A video going out over your byline implies editorial approval of any and all statements made in the video. 

Is that any different than in any other format?  Moreover, do all videos require any commentary at all?

Ex. Try this video with the sound turned off:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3MfL6MVdj8

-is it still useful? 

Yup.

With the sound turned on: still reasonably objective - commenting on the testing conditions without offering opinion of the results (..though calling it a "complete breakdown" is most assuredly "optimistic").

I think this is a matter of what is reasonable - generating a video that really does very little to offend while still providing useful information in a format that *might* be more accessible, and that in turn might generate increased viewership (..and of course revenue).

Is it a "slippery slope"?  

No more so than producing a website, generating a written review, and asking for or simply receiving samples, deciding what get's reported and what doesn't, etc..  AND if it's done in the manner I've suggested (where a written article provides a subjective assessment of a product under review while the video leaves that out), I don't think there will be much for a manufacturer to complain about (..again, assuming a reasonable policy for video content).  Will the viewer bitch about that?  Sure, some will that don't want to read the review - but the obvious fall-back for others is: "READ THE REVIEW".

(..and again, I'm not anti-written review at all.  I like written reviews, particularly for their conclusions - but in many instances (though certainly not all), a video is just more accessible.)
 
HERETIC
Gerbil XP
Posts: 488
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:10 am

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:24 am

Probably going to get some flak-
In general leave the video reviews for those too lazy to read,somewhere else-not on this site please.
Some exceptions-
Could be useful for how easy/fn nightmare it is to install heatsink/cooler.
Case reviews.(bugs me how many case reviews don't show how easy/hard to access front filter)
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25690
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:01 am

CScottG wrote:
a video is just more accessible

Accessible in what way? Easier to view? People have already argued that sitting through a video is a low information density in longer amount of time. Clicking on articles vs clicking on YouTube links? I call that a wash. Easier for people who use YouTube as their search starting point? Well, you may win this one, but when you type "X review", unless you engage in some SEO you may not get a high enough result placement anyways. Easier to access? Tell that to the people who are on metered connections or poor reception (phones in particular). I don't agree with this accessibility angle.

Also, your initial YouTube video suggestion mentioned "timely", meaning early or close to 0-day access to the stuff. This may mean getting to that line that was discussed a few posts back, one that I don't think TR should cross. Besides, if no sound, just posting a bunch of pictures would be good already? But then a ton of other sites already do that, what would make TR stand out if they do the same thing?
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
MOSFET
Gerbil XP
Posts: 373
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:42 am

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:03 pm

CScottG wrote:
a video is just more accessible.


I have to repeat the dissent on this, while completely mindful that it's just an opinion. I do not consider video "accessible" - a browser in the background being static, without speaking, making noise, moving around on the screen - that's accessible. It's there when you want it, it's basically not there when you don't. I like to catch up on news during short breaks at work or throughout any other day. Short bursts of reading and filtering which occur at my own pace, leisurely or breakneck. Video and podcasts do not fit into my style of consumption. I wish podcasts worked for me, but I can't handle distraction from my surroundings (except commercial flights), even in my own home by myself.
Be careful on inserting this (or any G34 chip) into the socket. Once you pull that restraining lever, it is either a good install or a piece of silicon jewelry.
 
CScottG
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1252
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:38 pm

I'm not really thinking of "accessible" in terms of personal opinion, but rather as a trend.  (..even news, which I think of as being better communicated through print (particularly for brevity in an out-line format), is being eroded in favor of video.)

I also think the "slippery slope" argument *can* fail with respect to "embargo" product samples.. and I'm pretty sure that TR has had and reviewed multiple products under that sort of condition already without substantive compromise.  (..and IF that's the case, why should it be presumed that it would be any different with video?)
 
Redocbew
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2495
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:07 pm

Product reviews aren't just news though. They're also reference material, and videos make terrible reference material because they're not easily searchable.
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
CScottG
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1252
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:32 pm

Again, I think of print and video as being complementary.  

I'm certainly not saying print should be left for video - that would be abandoning Techreport's fundamental character. Rather I think there are multiple situations where video can enhance print, and a few where video might well be preferred (for most, though not all, of the content). PC Cases are a good example of the later (IMO): reading about a case is pretty damn boring and the pictures aren't dynamic (literally). This isn't to say that some content like the conclusion and an outline of particular dimensions (..like distances for video cards and radiators) aren't better served via print, but rather that the bulk of the review's content *could* be better presented in video.  (..and it's to the point where I personally don't read case reviews anymore.)

As far as reference value, my guess is that most of the product reviews have little value in that context.  (New technology under test? Sure.)  
 
DancinJack
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4494
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:27 pm

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processor ... vid-Kanter

Exactly the stuff TR has done in the past, and should be doing now. :(
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
CScottG
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1252
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:50 pm

(post 31):
"..In fact, PC Perspective reminds me of an older TR but with video.."

It's worth repeating.  :D
 
Kougar
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:12 am
Location: Texas

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:54 pm

DancinJack wrote:
https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Dissecting-AMD-Zen-Architecture-Interview-David-Kanter

Exactly the stuff TR has done in the past, and should be doing now.  :(

Wow, gonna watch that. Thanks for the link!

I think everybody and their Uncle has already said that they loved it when TR was doing this sort of stuff.
 
jihadjoe
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 835
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:34 am

Re: O Tech Report, Tech Report, wherefore art thou Tech Report?

Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:02 am

TR did actually do podcasts and video very well. The old ones with Jordan were the highlight of my week whenever they came out, and I ended up lining up for many delicious treats (cronuts!) based on their recommendations.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
GZIP: On