TR Forums

tanker27 wrote:

I've got to say that this thread has turned ludicrous and you people have sucked and destroyed all the sci-fi out of a sci-fi movie. Next Argument Mad Max: Fury Road

No thanks... I've already had to read too many knuckle draggers moan about the "feminist agenda" in that movie.

derFunkenstein wrote:

tanker27 wrote:

I've got to say that this thread has turned ludicrous and you people have sucked and destroyed all the sci-fi out of a sci-fi movie.

Even then, it's mostly fantasy in the first place. Space wizards, anybody? Augment-free psychic powers? I mean, come on. There's nothing that can "destroy" the Star Wars universe because nothing is impossible in the Star Wars universe. In the Star Wars universe time is distance and distance is time. The EU had to retcon what Han meant. The Star Wars universe was broken before ANH hit movie screens.

That doesn't make it bad. In fact, it makes it better because Star Wars is and has always been about turning off your brain and watching Space Wizards kiss their sisters.

And you're right, many of the SW rules are retcons or figured out after the fact (and the discussions generally make them more interesting). Here's a universe-breaker from the OT: the lightsaber! Why didn't Obi just drop his lightsaber (or use the force) to send it straight into the Death Star's reactor? That blade can cut through ANYTHING, eliminating the need to Force-guide a pair of torpedoes into a tiny hole! Why did Luke use that grappling hook to grenade an AT-AT when he could have just cut a foot off? Why aren't lighstsabers or their knife equivalent standard issue to get through blast doors?

Oh Totally Oh My Like Totally Man.
I mean what did I just watch?!!!@!@!~!? I mean, it was totally Leia who put in the torpedo~! Dumb pilot could never done it. Only a chauvinist cut could make it look like it was Luke.
I mean, what like what was that? Although I guess we need to be grateful that the dirty old man failed first.

derFunkenstein wrote:

But, I mean, Carrie Fisher was just beyond hot. Her apparent bra-lessness in that white gown meant the world to me as a pubescent child.

Um, it was more than "apparent".

I'm glad you are here to tell us these things.

Captain Ned wrote:

derFunkenstein wrote:

But, I mean, Carrie Fisher was just beyond hot. Her apparent bra-lessness in that white gown meant the world to me as a pubescent child.

Um, it was more than "apparent".

At the time I wasn't entirely sure, is what I meant. Nowadays you can tell in the HD releases. It's an argument in favor of owning the Blu-Ray versions.

cphite wrote:

Judicator wrote:

Dude, the only part of your post that wasn't opinion was the part where you linked to sites that compiled other people's opinions. We're discussing the merits of a work of fiction; it's by definition opinion. So maybe turn down the pretense just a bit, eh?

Wrong, again. I posted facts: revievs, Luke "prominent in VII" as a MacGuffin, and another link to a YT video where Mark Hamill speaks his mind about how bad the choices RJ made for Luke, so, yeah, whatever, keep LOL!-ing.

Reviews are opinions. And even Mark Hamill was stating his opinion. Granted, his opinion carries a lot of weight, but it's still an opinion.

I know this may sound crazy to you, but people are allowed to interpret stories differently than the actors, or the directors, or even the writers. Mark Hamill didn't like where they took the character; and that's fine - he's entitled to that opinion. The writers and the director made the call; because in their opinion it made sense. Some fans liked it; others didn't like it. It's all opinion.

TL;DR: The point I'm trying to get across is: yeah, I agree, opinions are just opinions but when you factor money in the equation of moviemaking, well, they are not just simple opinions anymore, that's why big youtubers and big reviewers have been kind towards this movie. I get one thing from this: RJ was a bad choice, which is my opinion but facts seem to tell the same story.

I write this just to clarify my point.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion, yeah, RJ is both the writer and director.
Opinions and facts. OK, let's take a look at who wrote the screenplay of the successful movies of the franchise: Lawrence Kashdan, VII was written mainly by Lawrence Kashdan, the same goes for V, and VI, he is a succesful writer.
The point is: LK is a prized writer so why RJ decided to write VIII himself?
Facts tell us that LK may almost certainly had written a better screenplay, at least if we look at what he has done in the past.
The majority of people don't like VIII and they have made reviews based on their opinions, the movie made almost half the money than VII because of those opinions and if I get it right they make movies to make money.

We can debate all day long about opinions but one fact is right there, right before our eyes: VIII is doing worse than they expected to, a saga movie made just 200M more than Rogue one which is a spin off!

So Mark Hamill's opinion seems on point and in line with reality, he even stated that he hoped fans wouldn't get angry.
For sure RJ's opinion (and directing and everything else he's done with this movie) has led to smaller box office results, which is a fact.
I've never, ever thought that a Star Wars movie would compete against Jumanji in the daily BO: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/daily/. Let's be clear VIII made 1.3B, Jumanji 770M but it is still going strong and if it keeps this pace it can make more money while VIII which has tanked.

derFunkenstein wrote:

At the time I wasn't entirely sure, is what I meant. Nowadays you can tell in the HD releases. It's an argument in favor of owning the Blu-Ray versions.

Carrie was quite clear in interviews that George required her to "run free" during shooting.

Judicator wrote:

TL;DR: ........BLA BLA BLA AD NAUSEUM......

I do not think you know how TLDR works. >.<

derFunkenstein wrote:

Captain Ned wrote:

derFunkenstein wrote:

But, I mean, Carrie Fisher was just beyond hot. Her apparent bra-lessness in that white gown meant the world to me as a pubescent child.

Um, it was more than "apparent".

At the time I wasn't entirely sure, is what I meant. Nowadays you can tell in the HD releases. It's an argument in favor of owning the Blu-Ray versions.

Oh for sure in EP VI when the Twilek fell through Jabba's floor to the Rancor pit an actual boob fell out! You can see it in many copies except the online version I think.

Captain Ned wrote:

Carrie was quite clear in interviews that George required her to "run free" during shooting.

She said George told her to remove the bra because there were no Bra's in Star Wars.....or something like that.

Now that you guys mention it, I do remember reading about that...eh...costume decision.

derFunkenstein wrote:

Now that you guys mention it, I do remember reading about that...eh...costume decision.

Imagine trying that angle today.

I'm missing what happened to the Knights. Killed each other? Secret missions? Founded another temple? Self-exiled like Luke? Joined outbound flight?

Ongoing jedi/potential jedi (force sensitive) hunting missions.
That and being "political commissars" on all flagships.
In my headcanon: Tahiri 2.0 and one of my OCs, Valin Horn 2.0 and various others are KORs. Besides these, I just get a list of Luke's student from EU and flip coins.

So, there is nothing definite that points to their role in the next film? I can see them away on recruiting missions, yes.

My original theory is that they were agitating to make Luke dictator, which may explain why Luke did not seek them out after he had recovered from his tragic fight with Kylo.

actually, that's pretty interesting. For maybe half a week I was entertaining the possibility of Luke!Snoke.

superjawes wrote:

Here's a universe-breaker from the OT: the lightsaber!

Why didn't Obi just drop his lightsaber (or use the force) to send it straight into the Death Star's reactor? That blade can cut through ANYTHING, eliminating the need to Force-guide a pair of torpedoes into a tiny hole! Why did Luke use that grappling hook to grenade an AT-AT when he could have just cut a foot off?

Why aren't lighstsabers or their knife equivalent standard issue to get through blast doors?

The handle itself is still subject to damage (maybe not at the top where the plasma beam extends from, but lower). Even nearing the molten cut for long should damage it sufficiently, though think about how fried Qui Gon's hand holding the Lightsaber would/should have been! (..and his head, arms, torso, and legs - anywhere near those cuts.)

"..this is impossible!"

umm, yes - yes it is. (..and I remember thinking that the first time I saw the movie.)

https://youtu.be/pUbXyd-fK8Q?t=136


-I don't think the crystals that powered the Lightsaber and Deathstar were common (..could be wrong though).

CScottG wrote:

-I don't think the crystals that powered the Lightsaber and Deathstar were common (..could be wrong though).

They are not. The jedi got their Kyber Crystals from Ilum, Dantoonie, and Adega. While the Sith used synthetic crystals. Kylo Ren's crystal has a crack in it hence the look/need of a crossguard. The Synthetic crystals used are actually stronger and produce a more powerful 'blade'.

Also Jedi and Sith alike used other force sensitive materials to power their lightsabers from time to time. Physical remains and shards of glass were also common. (Oh, And the highly prized Krayt Dragon Pearl)

That the DEATH STAR is powered by lightsaber crystal is the worst idea ever.
If the Emperor took away all lightsaber crystals from the Jedi to power the DEATH STAR, how come he had enough to power a moar power DS 2? If he didn't use all of the stash for DS1, why didn't he? It's not like he expected the DS 1 to get destroyed.
And if the DS2 was using synthetic "kyber" crystals, why was the ray of mass destruction still green in color? If you can tune synthetic color, why only red in lightsaber color?

I think we're going to have to accept that the Star Wars movies are going to become like the James Bond movies. There will be good ones, there will be bad ones. But even the bad ones are kind of enjoyable if you don't care too much.

Hyperspace missiles: Cheap and devastatingly effective. You don't need much. Hell, put an astromech droid in an X-Wing, back up its hard drive and promise it a nice new body and an oil bath if it takes out the bridge. The biggest problem with the idea of a guided hyperspace missile is "why didn't they think of this before?"

Mad Max - Fury Road: It really should have been called The Fast and the Furiosa. The plot is silly, as it basically is a bunch of people fleeing in one direction and then fleeing back towards their start point. That said, it's 90 minutes of OMG awesome car chases. There are elements of world-building that make no sense, but I can forgive a lot for awesomeness. Which I think is why I have so many issues with TLJ. There isn't enough amazing fight scenes to make me forgive the plot holes. Awesome cinematography and wonderful musical score are not sufficient.

The bigger question is why was Holdo able to run the Home One with herself.
According to the wook, the minimum skeleton crew is 1000 or more or a Mon Calamari Cruiser like that. You don't press buttons on a panel and expect a capital ship to move.
And if Home One could be run by having a single individual for movement, why do you need anyone else? Or maybe even a droid.
Next tech in SW. Super mobile Star Destroyer run by a single Astromech.

Dark Mage: There is an article announcing that TLJ has 4 oscars nominations. (All in the sound and video department). The opening statement was something like Unfortunately TLJ didn't get the best director or best film nominations. I stopped reading and control f found the 4 minor nominations and closed the page...

Darkmage wrote:

.......wonderful musical score are not sufficient.

With the exception TLJ. It was non-existent....forgettable.... much so that I actually had to look it up to see that John Williams did it.

Darthutos wrote:

Next tech in SW. Super mobile Star Destroyer run by a single Astromech.

How about BB8 controlling a Chicken walker in convertible mode?

Darkmage wrote:

I think we're going to have to accept that the Star Wars movies are going to become like the James Bond movies. There will be good ones, there will be bad ones. But even the bad ones are kind of enjoyable if you don't care too much...

The Last Jedi isn't bad on its own, imo. Without the presence of most of the original characters, it could have been another decent standalone almost as good as Rogue One. It's the character inconsistencies that bother most of us, I guess.

Luke's ending could have been better. But the quasi-gnostic dispensation has to cycle out eventually, to make room for the next tandem. Ep VIII was as good an opportunity as any. Although, I was surprised that Snoke was made peripheral. But his demise was nicely done.

As suspected, the writers cribbed tropes from all over millennia. Finn is no longer the lucky charm used to deus ex the plot as needed, so he now fills in as proper Orion sidekick in Rey's adventures. In line with the retelling, I wouldn't be surprised if Poe winds up as her father. It was interesting to see the ancient Semiramis story mimicked, up until Rey chose not (or didn't have it in her) to seduce Kylo. If she were the daughter of an Imperial VIP, Kylo is definitely not telling her after having eliminated his rival.

If Rey doesn't end up with Kylo to succeed or usurp his rule, perhaps Leia will get to adopt her or even discover a relation via the Solo side. However it happens, the nomen 'Rey' actualizes as royalty from out of the desert, adding a win-win to the diversity bench of Disney Princesses (urgh).

Hyperspace missiles: Cheap and devastatingly effective. You don't need much. Hell, put an astromech droid in an X-Wing, back up its hard drive and promise it a nice new body and an oil bath if it takes out the bridge. The biggest problem with the idea of a guided hyperspace missile is "why didn't they think of this before?"

Others pointed out that there must be a maximum range of effect. Terminal targeting would be unguided line-of-sight at distances measured in the tens of thousands of miles. A kind of rear-launched torpedo, but one that happens to drive a straight vector approaching c. So the cases where this fictional tactic works will be very few.

Probably the reason it 'worked' here is because they were strung along in a stern chase, with ships almost stationary relative to each other. The cruiser's position and aspect was neglected long enough for it to slide and bear within the effective envelope. The FO commanders recognized the maneuver once they realized their mistake.

Bear in mind that a lot of the First Order's officers have never actually been in a proper capital ship battle. People like Hux were born and raised in the Unknown Regions, and the FO has been keeping a low profile for their entire life (right up until they fired Starkiller Base). Sure, they will have had a few skirmishes against the Resistance's starfighters, but they haven't gone toe to toe. It's pretty understandable that they will have made dumb mistakes in their first real battle.

Another thing is that the First Order are Ottomans in Space. They did an enderun with their biggest ships, where various FO classes are trained. I suppose they cannot afford to lose many of them.

The historical Ottomans were a second-rate power with first-rate soldiers, who imported doctrine and tech from industrialized countries. Perhaps the FO was setup similarly, developing their own good troops but buying arms and war machines from industrialized core worlds. Corellian shipyards built most of the original Empire's big hulls, they could be doing the same for the FO.

NTMBK wrote:

Bear in mind that a lot of the First Order's officers have never actually been in a proper capital ship battle. People like Hux were born and raised in the Unknown Regions, and the FO has been keeping a low profile for their entire life (right up until they fired Starkiller Base). Sure, they will have had a few skirmishes against the Resistance's starfighters, but they haven't gone toe to toe. It's pretty understandable that they will have made dumb mistakes in their first real battle.

Their first real battle whittled the rebels down to where they can fit into a single cargo ship. They did all right. I can't say the same for the Admiral of the Purple Hair.

trackerben wrote:

The FO commanders recognized the maneuver once they realized their mistake.

Which implies it's been done before...yet you could skip more than a few key battles in the original trilogy if so.

Waco wrote:

Which implies it's been done before...yet you could skip more than a few key battles in the original trilogy if so.

That's the retro implication. The opportunities would still be limited to rare conditions like those of the chase, but it would be among their outlier doctrines.

One thing I don't accept is that the First Order needed to buy off the hacker for info on what was going on at the Resistance cruiser. In the real world, we already have ground arrays that can track and resolve objects in cislunar space through Earth's atmosphere, some to the lunar surface.

A fictional spacefaring civilization would have developed passive optical and active ranging platforms for scanning/returning any visible region, if only to fix debris/mine fields and spacecraft tracks. Unless those fleeing Resistance transports were going FTL straight from their hangers, they should have been easily spotted and acquired with lasers that already pulse to those distances.

trackerben wrote:

That's the retro implication. The opportunities would still be limited to conditions like those seen in the chase battle, but it would be among their outlier doctrines.

That's the part I don't agree with, though. It just doesn't fit with the existing movies in any way. Big rock, hyperdrive, capital ship. Even *if* you buy that large hyperdrives are expensive, full-on capital ships are more so. Super Star Destroyers even more so. Death Stars even more so...etc.

Waco wrote:

That's the part I don't agree with, though. It just doesn't fit with the existing movies in any way. Big rock, hyperdrive, capital ship. Even *if* you buy that large hyperdrives are expensive, full-on capital ships are more so. Super Star Destroyers even more so. Death Stars even more so...etc.

Yup, and hundred-ton masses that can exit 'jump' while retaining sizeable sub-c velocities (say 72K mps) would obliterate anything short of a large metal asteroid. Readers of Haldeman's SF classic Forever War would know what I'm talking about. Of course, these are fictional amounts of energy conversion and dissipation. But just the wide availability of cheap hypervelocity rocks would change the nature of Star Wars battles. For one thing, barrages of hyper-V grapeshot to overload EM shielding would precede lasing, with droid-smart missiles loitering to dart through gaps in collapsing shields.