Personal computing discussed

Moderators: Captain Ned, emkubed

  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 16
 
Usacomp2k3
Gerbil God
Posts: 21993
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:53 pm
Location: Orlando, FL
Contact:

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:17 pm

IIRC there was an order (similar to order 66) that went into effect if the emperor were to die that would cause all the military arm of the Empire to try to do...something, basically a kamikaze mission that ended up wiping out the entire fleet. The shipyard just made new ships for the new kings in town, aka the first order.
 
CScottG
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1105
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:10 pm

Some people seem to object to the bomber scene..

well,

I think the cabin was deep, everything seemed to have artificial gravity (..it's a given for the franchise), presumably the bombs were heavy - and presumably they picked up sufficient velocity until leaving the bottom of the ship's bomb-bay doors.

What was wrong was that the bomb ship was moving at some rate forward of the ship being bombed, and the ship being bombed was moving at some rate reward of the bomber ship. The bombs shouldn't have been so concentrated in area (..either that or the perspective for the ship being bombed was absolutely massive and neither ship was moving very fast at all - which I'm cool with).


Speaking of perspective.

How about the size of the Millenium Falcon on the Jedi planet vs. the number of people entering it in the last scene? :roll:
 
NTMBK
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:21 am

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:29 am

CScottG wrote:

Speaking of perspective.

How about the size of the Millenium Falcon on the Jedi planet vs. the number of people entering it in the last scene? :roll:


Fortunately, the Falcon had the TARDIS on board at the time.
 
CScottG
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1105
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:17 pm

NTMBK wrote:
CScottG wrote:

Speaking of perspective.

How about the size of the Millenium Falcon on the Jedi planet vs. the number of people entering it in the last scene? :roll:


Fortunately, the Falcon had the TARDIS on board at the time.



I was thinking EXACTLY that. :wink:
 
JumpingJack
Gerbil
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:37 pm

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:32 pm

Tried to watch Star Wars IV A New Hope yesterday, and when Luke appeared on screen the entire feeling was different. All I could see was old man who drank green tinged milk from the tit of a weird looking walrus. Thanks Rian Johnson, you completely destroyed Star Wars. Even the prequels did not do this .... at least after Vader 'turned' in ROTS, at least we can extrapolate some continuity as time would pass and the Vader we are introduced to in ANH was battle hardened and evil. But this pile of trash, the most beloved character of the franchise, and this is the way you (Johnson) see him as an elder? WTF man... what has been seen cannot be unseen.

Anyone who truly loved the original should do themselves a favor... do not see The Last Jedi. Period.

Maybe JJ Abrams can start the next movie off like Rey having a bad nightmare and waking up from it and starting over again???? Please???
 
NTMBK
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:21 am

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:07 pm

JumpingJack wrote:
Tried to watch Star Wars IV A New Hope yesterday, and when Luke appeared on screen the entire feeling was different. All I could see was old man who drank green tinged milk from the tit of a weird looking walrus. Thanks Rian Johnson, you completely destroyed Star Wars. Even the prequels did not do this .... at least after Vader 'turned' in ROTS, at least we can extrapolate some continuity as time would pass and the Vader we are introduced to in ANH was battle hardened and evil. But this pile of trash, the most beloved character of the franchise, and this is the way you (Johnson) see him as an elder? WTF man... what has been seen cannot be unseen.

Anyone who truly loved the original should do themselves a favor... do not see The Last Jedi. Period.

Maybe JJ Abrams can start the next movie off like Rey having a bad nightmare and waking up from it and starting over again???? Please???


Oh, the irony. You honestly sound just like Luke whining in ESB, when he goes searching for a mighty Jedi master Yoda, and instead finds a green weirdo in a swamp.
 
Judicator
Silver subscriber
Gerbil
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:40 pm

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:24 pm

cphite wrote:
Judicator wrote:
Sorry for my bad english.
Honestly for me it isn't just they killed Luke, it would've happened sooner or later, but there are a couple things to take into account.
I knew they were going to kill the old generation but with the Carrie Fisher's death i hoped they would rethink it making Luke die in IX and Leia in XIII, it would have made much more sense. There will not going to be CGI Leia so either they recast her or make an off-screen death I guess.


I will never, ever, forgive Rian Johnson for how he handled Luke.
The same guy who stopped his training to go to save his friends knowing it probably was a trap.
The same guy who spared a wampa that nearly killed him.
Now this guy lives milking sea cows, that scene was disgusting and after he drunk he looked straight at the camera, WTH!?
He not only basically has retired in a distant planet while waiting to die but he even wanted to kill his nephew, his own blood, in the sleep because he sensed darkness in him, Luke!

Luke was the guy who faced both the most evil and powerful sith in the galaxy and the second most evil and powerful sith in the galaxy at the same time because he sensed there was some good in Darth Vader and all that without killing anyone! An optimist to say the least.

That is nonsense, is stupidity, it's not a bold/risky choice: that is beyond bad writing, it's ignorance of what SW and its characters are, it's idiotic.
I swear I can go on forever with all the stuff that breaks the continuity or the lore of SW, with (the still) underdeveloped or disposable characters, the pointless chase, the sub quest, the bad humor/jokes and other inesplicable things that ruin this movie.


Because he comes to realize that even if he saves the ones who have good in them, the pattern just continues. Anakin became Vader because the Jedi collectively failed him; an entire council of people who are supposedly masters of reading people among other things, didn't notice that the boy they saved from slavery was being crushed by guilt from leaving his mother behind, or that he was in love with Padme and terrified of losing her, or that he was filled with self-doubt, etc, etc.

Anakin didn't turn to the dark side because he wanted to be evil. He turned to the dark side because he wanted to bring order to a world in which his slave mother was murdered by raiders; and in which his pregnant wife doesn't have to die. The Jedi council, especially Yoda, actually see that he's filled with fear and anger - and realize that he's potentially the most powerful Force user ever - and decide to allow his training anyway.

Luke himself is tempted to the dark side in Ep6 when he almost kills Vader, stopping only at the last moment because - ironically - he hears the Emperor laughing, takes note of Vader's missing hand, and realizes that he's going down that path himself.

Then, after the empire is defeated, Luke finds himself faced with a nephew who is turning to the dark side despite all of Luke's best efforts... he comes to realize that when people have this kind of power, there is always temptation to misuse it. And where there is temptation, there will always be those who succumb to it. He sees the pattern and decides that the best way to stop the pattern is to stop teaching the powers in the first place.

Whether or not he's right about that, it's a completely reasonable conclusion for him to reach. And frankly, going away instead of outright murdering his nephew is completely within character for Luke as he was depicted in the earlier films.


Sorry but I disagree: it may be reasonable but is against what Luke has done in the past. We aren't talking about some random, inexperienced jedi: that is Luke Skywalker one of the most powerful jedi trained by Kenoby and Yoda. Yes, he's faced the dark side multiple times but without being seduced by it. He has proven to be able to react and handle the dark side's temptation, and now he should be much stronger than when he was a kid. But all of a sudden (they basically live together) he realizes the darkness is mounting in his nephew but what he does? He runs away without confronting him. Luke? He knows what's the dark side, who better than him could help Ben solo? And how couldn't he sense Snoke influencing Ben? Then (again) at the end of the movie instead of truly confronting him he sends out his projection. That's two times Luke, the most powerful jedi, doesn't confront Kylo (an emo fanboy who got his butt kicked by Rey) because who knows why. That contradicts what's happened in the OG.
To me that's just bad character representation/writing, it makes no sense, really.

But honestly that is just the insult added to the injury like Leia basically unharmed by an explosion that floats back to the ship where then she opens a door and nobody gets sucked into the space. Like Finn instantly dragging Rose to the Rebel base. Like Rose that saves the Horses-rabbits and ignores the children slaves or Finn and Rose being able to run away while chased by the FO gunning the mothership. Or Yoda force lighting while Obi Wan told Luke "If you decide to confront Vader I won't be able to help you" or something like that making Obi Wan a liar basically. The nonsense chase, some ships could just micro space jump in front of the resistance ones and defeat them. Too many inconsistencies and choices that are just bad/against the lore or simply stupid, too many to even try to list them all. RJ just tried to surprise the audience with poor/bad choices, I don't want to be disrespectful but I feel like he wasn't ready to handle this franchise. There are fan fictions that are very, very interesting, well made and respectful of the lore and characters
 
JumpingJack
Gerbil
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:37 pm

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:36 pm

NTMBK wrote:
JumpingJack wrote:
Tried to watch Star Wars IV A New Hope yesterday, and when Luke appeared on screen the entire feeling was different. All I could see was old man who drank green tinged milk from the tit of a weird looking walrus. Thanks Rian Johnson, you completely destroyed Star Wars. Even the prequels did not do this .... at least after Vader 'turned' in ROTS, at least we can extrapolate some continuity as time would pass and the Vader we are introduced to in ANH was battle hardened and evil. But this pile of trash, the most beloved character of the franchise, and this is the way you (Johnson) see him as an elder? WTF man... what has been seen cannot be unseen.

Anyone who truly loved the original should do themselves a favor... do not see The Last Jedi. Period.

Maybe JJ Abrams can start the next movie off like Rey having a bad nightmare and waking up from it and starting over again???? Please???


Oh, the irony. You honestly sound just like Luke whining in ESB, when he goes searching for a mighty Jedi master Yoda, and instead finds a green weirdo in a swamp.

Damn straight I am whining.... that POS movie was not any better than the prequels.
 
G8torbyte
Gold subscriber
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:09 pm
Location: NJ, near Philly
Contact:

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:57 pm

JumpingJack wrote:
NTMBK wrote:
JumpingJack wrote:
Tried to watch Star Wars IV A New Hope yesterday, and when Luke appeared on screen the entire feeling was different. All I could see was old man who drank green tinged milk from the tit of a weird looking walrus. Thanks Rian Johnson, you completely destroyed Star Wars. Even the prequels did not do this .... at least after Vader 'turned' in ROTS, at least we can extrapolate some continuity as time would pass and the Vader we are introduced to in ANH was battle hardened and evil. But this pile of trash, the most beloved character of the franchise, and this is the way you (Johnson) see him as an elder? WTF man... what has been seen cannot be unseen.

Anyone who truly loved the original should do themselves a favor... do not see The Last Jedi. Period.

Maybe JJ Abrams can start the next movie off like Rey having a bad nightmare and waking up from it and starting over again???? Please???


Sorry Mark Hamill, I feel for you brother. Those who were with you from the beginning are just as disappointed as you are: "That was not my Luke Skywalker" to us as well as you state in the interview. There is a disconnect with the "official critics" and the audience as the Rotten Tomatoes rating is trending down on the audience score. What Luke did to Rey when she brought him back his old saber was totally out of character. I was saying WTF as well! Luke would not do that...
Rian Johnson's response to fans is lame and back-firing on his stated goal.
Later, -G8tor
Building PCs and gaming since"Chuck Yeager's Air Combat" 1991
Current setups: X99 Command/Control Station and DIY mini-ITX NAS Build
 
drfish
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Elder
Posts: 5182
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 7:53 pm
Location: Zeeland, MI

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:27 pm

NTMBK wrote:
Oh, the irony. You honestly sound just like Luke whining in ESB, when he goes searching for a mighty Jedi master Yoda, and instead finds a green weirdo in a swamp.


Thank you! I couldn't quite find the way to put into words why I wasn't offended by how Luke was handled in this movie as much as others seem to be (even though I still have very mixed feelings about the movie overall). I mean, Luke is great and all, but I think he's also always been characterized as a bit of a selfish brat so I had no problem believing that after a pretty major speed-bump he got all huffy and sulked off to be alone forever.
TR BBQ XV is happening 6/23/18. Don't miss it!
 
G8torbyte
Gold subscriber
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:09 pm
Location: NJ, near Philly
Contact:

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:42 pm

True, Luke was a whiny guy at the beginning:

but he did seem to have matured to a wiser persona in ROTJ.
Later, -G8tor
Building PCs and gaming since"Chuck Yeager's Air Combat" 1991
Current setups: X99 Command/Control Station and DIY mini-ITX NAS Build
 
Hawkwing74
Silver subscriber
His Holy Gerbilness
Posts: 13954
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:51 pm
Location: Streamwood, IL

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Yes he was whiny in ANH. But then he kinda saved the Rebellion over and over. He had to grow up fast after his relatives were turned into char.

What is with the milk-drinking creature? I will probably refuse to pay my money to Disney this time. What is the explanation for that?

I also do not understand...what is the overarching story of this trilogy? I don't know if it has one. The Bildungsroman of Anakin and Luke could be mirrored in Rey, if her character had any purpose besides being a force prodigy. One could also say the prequel trilogy was the fall of the Republic and the Jedi, and the original trilogy was the defeat of the Empire.

The almost total lack of world-building in TFA left huge things unexplained. Bad people blow up some planets, good people fight them. The rest of the inhabited worlds shrug? It wasn't like the Republic even fought back. Was the Republic not really coherent but instead medieval fiefdoms of a handful of planets? They can't bother explaining.
 
CScottG
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1105
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:38 pm

Hawkwing74 wrote:

..What is with the milk-drinking creature? I will probably refuse to pay my money to Disney this time. What is the explanation for that?

I also do not understand...what is the overarching story of this trilogy?



Got milk? Milk does the body good.

-it's there to show that you adapt to the situation-at-hand (or tit as it were) and the surrounding environment - like fishing. How else would you survive (with multiple options for food) in such a harsh environment where there is no land-based farming? Sort of like Tatooine's reliance on "farming" water from the air. Disgusting (yet necessary) like splitting-open a pack animal and sleeping inside it to escape freezing conditions on Hoth. Luke is practical. The scene did miss a good opportunity for dialog as a response from Rey though (..explaining just that).


I sensed two things with this plot:

1. The rebellion is decimated (..a concentrated rebellion is no longer tenable), YET it is now spread far and wide keeping low and "waiting things out" until the Empire shrink's into itself (..a'la Rome shrinking after it's expansion.) In other words, yes we are under Roman occupation, but life goes on and we are waiting for a better opportunity to revolt when conditions become lax or problematic at the core (Rome/Coruscant) and increasingly worse on a planet-by-planet basis. Decadence sets in: the rich get richer, and the poor become slaves - a condition leading to revolt.

2. Tropes are being squashed. You don't need to be of special birth to be special. The bad guys aren't always bad, and the good guy's aren't always good (..like asking too much from their compatriots and friends). Black and White, Good and Bad, aren't quite so definite. Balance may be better obtained with cooperation between opposing sides. Opposing sides need no longer define themselves by such tropes: "Jedi" and "Sith".
 
the
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 917
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:26 am

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:03 am

I just got back from seeing it and I have some thoughts to share.

Things that I liked:
The opening scene - Trolling the general was funny and unexpected. Maybe it did get a bit too long but I'm OK with that here.

Luke Skywalker - General consensus is that Luke has gone full grumpy old man and not the Luke that they knew form the previous Star Wars installments. I'm actually OK with this as there is context for him becoming a hermit. I thought it was a good twist for his character having to deal with failure. Kylo Ren was created because of Luke's failure is a good thing and would ultimately change a person. I also like that that scene was told three different times and from two different angles. Perspective is more powerful than truth.

Yoda - perhaps Yoda could have had less one-liners but the speech that failure is the best teacher was great. It ties well with Luke and how he failed with Ben Solo. Also Yoda gained force lighting even in death. That's cool.

Snoke's Death - How Snoke dies came a bit out of left field for me but I like how it was done. Not through any five minute fight scene, just clever positioning and by surprise. I also like the royal guard battle afterward and how for a bit Rey and Kylo Ren swapped light sabers.

Poe's plan/mutiny - This fit the character exceptionally well. I do have issues with some of these scenes but it isn't with his character arc in it or his motivations for it.

Kylo Ren didn't kill Leia. I liked that brief moment of hesitation and then it nearly happens anyway. Despite his hesitation, he carries on. Good portrayal for his character.


Things that were meh:
Snoke - Despite the idea that he is a mastermind and placed himself as leader, he really is just kinda there.

Light speed ramming. Being able to hit each other at relativistic speeds is an awesome attack strategy when you're willing to be a kamikaze. My beef is that Snoke's ship survived. But not only does it survive, it just magically knocks everyone unconscious and moves them around a bit like someone bumping a chess board: Rey teleports to the Snoke's personal ship the Millennium Falcon, Rose/Finn weren't executed, General Hux pulls a reverse spawn camping maneuver by appearing over an unconscious Kylo Ren. So the shipped survived and everyone got moved into a position they need to in a single step.

The rebel bomber. I'm OK with this as it appeared that the bombs were deployed on rails so there was some propulsion.


Things that I disliked:
The last scene with the kid looking up at the stars. This rubbed me the wrong way as the true Disneyifcation of Star Wars. I get that the theme of this movie was hope and the outline of this idea in this scene is fine but the execution doesn't set well for me. It reads like a subliminal message to go buy Rebel rings and play with more Star Wars toys.

Luke's astral projection. Not a fan of this as a means of stopping the First Order from entering the base. It plays up Luke too much as a legend.

Rey's secret teleportation ability. She jumped from the throne room to the Millennium Falcon even though she was supposed to have escaped in Snoke's personal craft. Or perhaps the Millennium Falcon was Snoke's personal craft the entire time.... dun dun dun. She jumps around and it feels disjoined if you noticed it.

Time or the lack there of. So the rebel ships are crusing along running out of fuel F but Finn and Rose have plenty of time to go on a side quest that takes X amount of time to get there and Y time. Yeah, things aren't adding up to produce a nice clean time line. If you want to have side quest plot, fine but pull those characters out of the main plot line before you lock the remaining characters down.

Where is the rest of the First Order fleet? For being on the verge of crushing the resistance and then having to trail a couple of ships for awhile you'd think they'd call in backup to prevent their escape/utterly crush them from the other direction.

Hermit or not to hermit. Luke seemed to be living the life of hermit but he has walrus he could milk and some space nuns to help take care of the old Jedi island. Basically he was alone when he needed to be and convenient.

Luke's and Yoda's pyro adventure was for naught. Yep, the religious texts of the Jedi survive to be read another day! I'm not irked that they survived but rather the bait and switch for the audience that they were supposed to have been destroyed earlier in the movie and then you see them on the Millennium Falcon at the end with no explanation that they were there.


Things that I hated:
Admiral purple hair has no plan but really she does. The tactic of traveling to a near by abandoned rebel based had to be disclosed after the mutiny concluded. She needed to come off a bit stronger that she did have a plan but Poe was in no position to actually know it. Tie this into the idea of learning form failure and Poe's comments about needing to know things had great potential in the script but what we got feels incredibly weak compared to the potential here. What we got fell flat and that Poe was correct in his actions every step of the way until random rebel base is revealed.

The guitar solo at the end. I mean the light saber duel between Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker Seriously, in the middle of a military campaign to deliver the finishing blow to your resistance, why would you stop to do a 1-on-1 duel? Nope, your army marches on. Sure, the leaders may seek each other out so audience can have a nice climatic interaction but you don't stop everything else to do it. It allows for things like letting the enemy escape.... oh wait.

Leia's great space vacuum adventure. Just no. OK, she is Luke's brother and would have been trained as a Jedi had Luke failed against Vader but her talents were never explored beyond receiving a telepathic message from Luke. Nope, that was the scene she should have died in.

Rose saving Finn and then Finn saving Rose. The subplot was setup for a hero's sacrifice and there wasn't any sort of dramatic payoff. To top it off, Finn was able to drag Rose back to base before the guitar solo started going. This runs counter to the previous scene of admiral purple hair ramming Snoke's ship at light speed and killing herself in the process.


Overall it felt 'meh' as if the script need another pass to clean out a few rough edges. I have more issues with how the movie was put together and executed than where they were trying to go with it. It wasn't bad but I can't see how critics have been giving it universal praise. The Last Jedi does have some clear flaws. However, I am interested where they'll go for Episode 9 now that Episode 8 has taken the series in a direction I didn't expect. I'm pretty sure I'll wait to hear more audience reviews before showing up to theaters next time.
Dual Opteron 6376, 96 GB DDR3, Asus KGPE-D16, GTX 970
Mac Pro Dual Xeon E5645, 48 GB DDR3, GTX 770
Core i7 3930K@4.2 Ghz, 32 GB DDR3, GA-X79-UP5-Wifi
Core i7 2600K@4.4 Ghz, 16 GB DDR3, GTX 970, GA-X68XP-UD4
 
CScottG
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1105
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:26 am

the wrote:
I just got back from seeing it and I have some thoughts to share.

Things that I disliked:
The last scene with the kid looking up at the stars. This rubbed me the wrong way as the true Disneyifcation of Star Wars. I get that the theme of this movie was hope and the outline of this idea in this scene is fine but the execution doesn't set well for me. It reads like a subliminal message to go buy Rebel rings and play with more Star Wars toys.


Hmm, doesn't the kid?:

..ever so slightly use the force to grab the broom?
 
Darkmage
Gold subscriber
Lord High Gerbil
Posts: 8048
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:44 am
Location: Hell, Virginia

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:22 am

Honestly, I'm cool with Luke going all wise, old, cranky Jedi and living as a hermit. I mean, it's not like there's precedent for that elsewhere in the series, right?
If there is one thing a remote-controlled, silent and unseeable surveillance/killing machine needs, it’s more whimsy. -- Marcus
 
Captain Ned
Gold subscriber
Global Moderator
Posts: 27036
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:38 pm

Now that your humble mod has seen the movie, I've lifted the spoiler lock. Besides, it's time anyways.

Movie-making: Needed better editing to take out about 15 minutes or so.

Physics: You went to a Star Wars movie expecting accuracy on the level of 2001 or The Martian? The screaming TIE fighters didn't annoy this child of Apollo back in 1977 and they sure don't now. Besides, I liked the homage to Twelve O'Clock High.

Mythos: I had no issue with Luke. I've never lost a nephew to the Dark Side but I still understand his weltschmerz. I'm cautiously optimistic on where the Rey/Ben thing will end up, but am prepared to be disappointed. The one thing I can't accept is Leia's Force-pull back to the ship (assuming it was all her).

Yoda's "pageturner" comment was a bit off for Yoda, but that's the Disney effect in play. The entire theatre got a good laugh over Chewie and the BBQ Porg pathos.

In all, about what I expected for a trilogy mid-piece based on ESB. It certainly hasn't driven me from the franchise, though after 40 years the chances of that are damn slim.
Humans sleep soundly in their beds because rough cats stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
 
CScottG
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1105
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:43 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
..The one thing I can't accept is Leia's Force-pull back to the ship (assuming it was all her).



That's odd. Remember that Vadar was going to "scrap" Luke in favor of Leia. She probably has gob's of raw potential - which in a dire moment should manifest to save her life.. and that's assuming she didn't have some training or simply "pick it up" herself over the years after Return of the Jedi. Just about everyone else with the force has, and usually at a much younger age.


I only had a few *jarring* moments that I couldn't accept.. like the previously mentioned Millennium Falcon size vs. a nearly unlimited capacity. The "Tooling" with you comment at the beginning, though funny was also jarring: it's just not a word I'd accept in that universe. Snook looking *very* different from TFA's - more humanoid (now sounding and looking a lot like the head vampire in Underworld).

Some of the Force tricks, which seem SOOOooooo much stronger than before and took so little EFFORT. Remember how much effort it took to concentrate to do things before that did NOT relate to close force-pulls or personal movement? I'm pretty sure Yoda plotz'ed half his body weight getting the X-Wing out of the swamp in RJ; Palpatine nearly desiccated himself using a bit of force lightening. Snook on the other hand can not only manipulate dreams and other force-wield communication between other force-wielders over vast distances - but can do it simultaneously with more than one, AND can force Rey around like a floating puppet while doing the same with other objects and people with less effort than taking a fart. Luke, who was never as strong as his father, can project himself over a vast distance to the point of being physical (as in the contact with his sister) ..even though it took the toll it did.

I can accept ascended Yoda pulling lightening without a lot of effort. Bendu (un-ascended) did this in Star Wars Rebels (..though I think this ended in the same manner as Luke's projection.)

TFA's Ben stopping a plasma (presumably) blast with Force was also jarring. (..I can accept deflection with a light saber, not a "Force-block".)


Though not jarring, I did find that Snook didn't really present any palpable fear to any scene. I really miss that from the originals. Star Wars Rebels even has that on some of their episodes - it makes things far more compelling. Vader was super creepy. The Emperor wasn't exactly a cuddly Ewok either. Rebels has Inquisitors and Thrawn (who isn't even a force wielder).. along with occasional extras (..like those spiders). Speaking of Inquisitors - DAMN this grouping of movies is missing a huge opportunity to inject fear with them.
 
Darkmage
Gold subscriber
Lord High Gerbil
Posts: 8048
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:44 am
Location: Hell, Virginia

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:44 am

CScottG wrote:
Though not jarring, I did find that Snook didn't really present any palpable fear to any scene. I really miss that from the originals. Star Wars Rebels even has that on some of their episodes - it makes things far more compelling. Vader was super creepy. The Emperor wasn't exactly a cuddly Ewok either. Rebels has Inquisitors and Thrawn (who isn't even a force wielder).. along with occasional extras (..like those spiders). Speaking of Inquisitors - DAMN this grouping of movies is missing a huge opportunity to inject fear with them.

I think there is a lot to this. Star Wars has forgotten how to do a proper villain. Vader was a great villain as he projected menace on the screen. Even the Emperor benefited from this as the scary hologram that held Vader's leash. More to the point, Vader exuded confidence and competence. He executed people when necessary, he took over cities, he assaulted planets - all without appearing to exert himself. Emo Ren just isn't scary when he throws a temper tantrum at every setback.
If there is one thing a remote-controlled, silent and unseeable surveillance/killing machine needs, it’s more whimsy. -- Marcus
 
douglar
Gerbil In Training
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:36 am

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:55 pm

Hawkwing74 wrote:

..What is with the milk-drinking creature? I will probably refuse to pay my money to Disney this time. What is the explanation for that?

I also do not understand...what is the overarching story of this trilogy?


Maybe it's an allegory that describes how the writer felt about his job? You know, another day milkin' the space cow?

I thought TLJ was very weak. Plot holes kept making me a skeptic and the tone shifts made me wince.
    Bombing run was silly because these are space ships, not B17s
    "Slow mo space chase" didn't make sense, because the FO could have micro jumped a few cruisers in front of the fleet.
    "Mary Poppins Leia" was laughable
    "Space Vegas" was a waste of screen time that didn't advance the plot at all
    The "Kamikaze" Cruiser didn't make sense since the FO could have done that to the Resistance at any time
    Snoke had no back story and no sense of menace
    Running a rickety speeder into a deathstar cannon doesn't seem like a realistic attack
 
Ryu Connor
Gold subscriber
Global Moderator
Posts: 4295
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Marietta, GA
Contact:

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:04 pm

Lucky Jack Aubrey wrote:
Nerd question: what the hell happened to the Imperial fleet? Yes, the Emperor fell. Yes, Vader died. Yes, Vader's super star destroyer command ship crashed into the Death Star II (but cf Han Solo's comment in ROTJ: "There are a lot of command ships"). Yes, the Empire itself fell and became the Republic again. Yes, several ships were likely destroyed at the Battle of Endor. Yes, we saw a crashed Star Destroyer in the desert on Jakku. But what happened to the rest of the massive fleet? I always assumed that the remaining fleet command acceded to Republican authority after the fall of the Empire (if they didn't, they'd have a pissed-off ascendant Jedi to deal with). There was no direct indication in the movies that the whole thing was destroyed at Endor or elsewhere. The pre-empire Republic had a fleet. Did the post-empire Republic just decommission the whole thing and become a pacifist regime? Will we see the remnants of said fleet in Episode 9?


Lawrence Kasdan, J.J. Abrams left this to other writers to expound upon in the comics and novels. What happened is only partly portrayed in TFA. All the ships crashed into Jakku were the result of the last great battle of the Empire. The Empire lost the battle of Jakku and signed an armistice. The remaining forces of the Empire left for the Unknown Regions to regroup and become The First Order.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Jakku

As for the New Republic, Starkiller Base in TFA destroyed the fleet and the new government. Not that the New Republic was much interested in fighting. This is why Leia's forces are called "The Resistance". They're an unsanctioned attack force of the New Republic backed by only a small number of worlds who trusted Leia's warnings of danger about The First Order. Try as she might, Leia could not get the broader New Republic worlds to accept that The First Order was a real threat. Our beloved Rebels are once again terrorists.

Based on events in TLJ it would appear that the worlds of the Republic are weary of war. They have lost hope as Leia puts it. Hard to blame the various worlds really and the subplot with DJ, Finn, and Rose sort of punctuate that the constant warfare since the rise of the Empire has left the galaxy with some problems.
All of my written content here on TR does not represent or reflect the views of my employer or any reasonable human being. All content and actions are my own.
 
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Posts: 24334
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:15 pm

CScottG wrote:
Speaking of Inquisitors - DAMN this grouping of movies is missing a huge opportunity to inject fear with them.

They'd be startling at least..."NOOOO-body expects the Jedi Inquisition!"
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
Lucky Jack Aubrey
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2315
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:13 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Re: STAR WARS TIME!

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:07 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:
Try as she might, Leia could not get the broader New Republic worlds to accept that The First Order was a real threat.

Hmmm. I find their lack of faith disturbing.
 
NTMBK
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:21 am

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:05 pm

douglar wrote:
I thought TLJ was very weak. Plot holes kept making me a skeptic and the tone shifts made me wince.
    Bombing run was silly because these are space ships, not B17s


Ah come on, space combat in Star Wars never made sense anyway. George openly acknowledged that he was just ripping off old WW2 films like Dambusters. If you try to apply logic, the entire thing falls apart. Why the hell would you have carriers and fighter aircraft in space? I enjoyed that scene because it leaned hard into the same WW2 vibe as the original films.
 
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Posts: 24334
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:22 pm

Carriers in space make a pretty darn good amount of sense. Fighters are small and have limited fuel. Why waste it all traveling?
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
ChronoReverse
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:20 pm

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:55 pm

I'm okay with the bombs themselves actually. They could be propellentless self-propulsion for all I care.

The remote control itself is what broke my immersion. It basically screams "we want you to sympathize with this heroic character but we only can do that with such an obtuse method".
 
douglar
Gerbil In Training
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:36 am

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:11 am

NTMBK wrote:
Ah come on, space combat in Star Wars never made sense anyway. George openly acknowledged that he was just ripping off old WW2 films like Dambusters. If you try to apply logic, the entire thing falls apart. Why the hell would you have carriers and fighter aircraft in space? I enjoyed that scene because it leaned hard into the same WW2 vibe as the original films.


There's nothing wrong with the WW2 vibe. Screaming ships and space flames add to the visceral impact of a movie experience. But the decisions here were disconnected and senseless and made the whole "bombing run" battle a joke. The necessity of the bombers was never fully setup and explained. Battles in war movies need to have necessary setup and payoff to justify the loss. "Itsa Fleet killer!" didn't cut it. It seemed uneven that Poe was able to shoot all the cannons off a dreadnought by himself but couldn't provide effective fighter escort. Then you got people hanging out inside the bomb bay compartment with the space doors open who don't seem to need space suits. WTF? Didn't the WW2 counterparts have air masks? Ending the big battle with a personal struggle to capture a slippery remote control that really needed a freaking wrist strap was too much. The kicker was that the entire battle didn't even move the plot forward. It was all pointless contrivance for special effects and didn't move the plot forward any more than two blasts from an ion cannon. The resistance was going to leave the planet anyway. Blowing up the Dreadnought changed nothing about their predicament since it was immediately replaced with the even bigger Snoke's flagship. It would have added to the movie's momentum and continuity if the Dreadnought was Snoke's ship. The only thing I got out of the battle was the sad cost in human lives & Poe's recklessness. The sadness was in jarring contrast to the prank phone call to start the battle, especially when you put it in front of the resistances desperate situation. Sometimes contrasts accentuate differences, but here it seemed to cheapen everything. Then it was weird that Poe seemed unphased by all the death, but perhaps if I could commit mutiny like he did without any consequences, maybe I wouldn't be phased either. It all seemed like bad story telling.
 
G8torbyte
Gold subscriber
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:09 pm
Location: NJ, near Philly
Contact:

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:15 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
CScottG wrote:
Speaking of Inquisitors - DAMN this grouping of movies is missing a huge opportunity to inject fear with them.

They'd be startling at least..."NOOOO-body expects the Jedi Inquisition!"


Some of my favorite skits from Monty Python...I CONFESS!!!!!
Later, -G8tor
Building PCs and gaming since"Chuck Yeager's Air Combat" 1991
Current setups: X99 Command/Control Station and DIY mini-ITX NAS Build
 
kvndoom
Silver subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2703
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:47 pm
Location: Communistwealth of Virginia

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:19 am

I get all the "Leia Poppins" hate, and it was a WTF moment for me too. Lots of folks agree that it would have been the perfect moment to kill off the character. Now we either get CGI Elderly Leia or an offscreen death between episodes. Neither of those scenarios is going to set well with the masses.

However, letting Leia die at that point in the film would have led to a LOT of scenes getting re-shot and I wonder how much that would have delayed the movie from its planned release date. On the other hand, I think (hope) SW fans would have been very forgiving if the movie got pushed back due to the real-life death of Carrie Fisher.
A most unfortunate, Freudian, double entendre is that hotel named "Budget Inn."
 
the
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 917
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:26 am

Re: STAR WARS TIME! - Spoiler Lock Lifted

Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:54 pm

kvndoom wrote:
I get all the "Leia Poppins" hate, and it was a WTF moment for me too. Lots of folks agree that it would have been the perfect moment to kill off the character. Now we either get CGI Elderly Leia or an offscreen death between episodes. Neither of those scenarios is going to set well with the masses.

However, letting Leia die at that point in the film would have led to a LOT of scenes getting re-shot and I wonder how much that would have delayed the movie from its planned release date. On the other hand, I think (hope) SW fans would have been very forgiving if the movie got pushed back due to the real-life death of Carrie Fisher.


Only the scenes on the salt planet would have had to be reshoot as clever editing could have moved the bridge scene further back in the chain of events. For example, they could have had the ship struck when they just got out of light speed, simply incapacitating Leia. Then she recovers at the same time in the film. Only when they they are fleeing toward the planet do we get the scene where her ship is shot down and she's sucked into space. Cut the scene where she speaks with Luke on the planet as that no longer makes sense and the only things that would need to be reshoot are a couple of shots as they escape. Even then, I recall a few of those simply being where Leia was in the background and she could have been digitally removed form the scene without it impacting anything. Bonus, the film could have setup the death of Leia as the final motivation as to why Luke got involved on the salt planet. It also would give merit to him using astral projection instead of simply flying there after Rye as the time-line would have had Rye on the Snoke's ship and not enough time to fly there himself.
Dual Opteron 6376, 96 GB DDR3, Asus KGPE-D16, GTX 970
Mac Pro Dual Xeon E5645, 48 GB DDR3, GTX 770
Core i7 3930K@4.2 Ghz, 32 GB DDR3, GA-X79-UP5-Wifi
Core i7 2600K@4.4 Ghz, 16 GB DDR3, GTX 970, GA-X68XP-UD4
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 16

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests