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NovusBogus
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:16 pm

BTC and altcoins are fine as a means of exchange or mining them very early in the life cycle (i.e. before big players, ASICs etc. come into play) but real-money speculation on the exchanges is a dubious proposition. Though to be fair, I feel the same way about a lot of "traditional" investments too.

PSA: Newegg accepts BTC as payment, but not altcoins. I did this over the weekend, in fact, on account of having a small amount of coin from back in the day. Of course, now I feel the need to provide some good or service in exchange for coin to make up for it, but I'll deal with that another day.
 
Bensam123
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:59 pm

Glorious wrote:
Bensam123 wrote:
Bad place to ask about cryptocurrencies, pretty much anyone here will offer a 'anti-monopoly money' point of view with almost no idea of what they're talking about.


I absolutely know what I'm talking about.

Bensam123 wrote:
As far as altcoins being a good investment, there are a lot of possible 'good' investments, but that can sometimes be extremely random as even very promising coins can crash and burn.


Go gamble, because then, if you win against slight improbability, they're legally obligated to pay you.

Whereas you can make a "killing" in the crypto-space and still lose everything because the exchange you orchestrated your complicated trading scenario upon got "hacked", steals your money, disappears, announces bankruptcy, or no longer allows you to withdraw any USD from.

All the above happens multiple times a year, and that's independent of any number of user errors that can send you into penury: your hard-drive crashes, you lose your paper wallet, you fat finger the wrong address, download a wallet within a window in which it relied upon a bogus RNG, forget your password, get hacked yourself, etc...

People suffer major loses because of situations like that on a weekly basis.

Bensam123 wrote:
Yes, Ethereum is one of the biggest altcoins, there are a few other major ones. And yes they have very high impact markets. Ethereum had 482m in volume yesterday for instance. Here is the best place to locate rising and or big coins. Sort by volume: http://coinmarketcap.com/


Those volume numbers are highly dubious.

Bensam123 wrote:
Also if you want to learn about cryptos visit Bitcointalk, that is where the majority of any sort of meaningful discussion happens.


I read it all the time, and you must be joking.

Bensam123 wrote:
You'll have to read up on each coin to figure out whether or not they're worth your money. They'll eat your money if you aren't careful.


If anyone here thinks anything I say carries any weight then heed this above all else: Do not invest in crypto-currencies.



Yeah you have no idea what you're talking about. You can visit any of the larger exchanges and realize cryptos are legitimate. You're quoting failed exchanges like Mt Gox and Cryptsy. There are plenty of legitimate ways to get your money out of the 'system'. Bitstamp is popular for euros, I use Coinbase and make regular withdrawls. There are plenty of miners that do the same, which is why there is currently a run on 480/580s.

And no, Mt Gox and Cryptsy don't happen 'multiple times a year'. Once again you have no idea what you're talking about.

You definitely don't regularly read bitcointalk. You strike me as someone who read a article or two on cnn and forbes and is talking as if they participate in the community. You don't even think you can get money out of the system, although that wasn't directed exclusively at you.

BTC is probably the safest option for investment, but as I mentioned it's very easy to lose your money (as well as make money). For instance BTC has increased in value from $1k to currently at $2.5k over the last month and a half or so. While it's definitely not a 'safe' investment (such as bonds), it's the safest out of all the cryptos due to it's size and the fact that the value of most altcoins is linked to it, with the exception of really large altcoins which sometimes move against it (Ethereum for instance).
 
NovusBogus
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:07 am

w76 wrote:
I've been waiting for the hammer to fall on the investment side. Assets this risky typically require accredited investors, ie., net worth over 1 million or joint income over 300k. Certain forms of P2P lending require that, for example. A lot of brokerages won't allow clients to trade penny stocks, which are comparable in risk, even though it's legal. I still don't think FINRA/SEC/CFPB understands the risk to investors, or haven't had the time to devote to a strategy to tackle it.

And how exactly would one make the distinction? Cryptocurrency, like the fiat currencies it's a reaction to, has no intrinsic value and isn't tied to a hard asset. The meatspace analog is the foreign exchange market, which has similarly lax rules since there's not much functional difference between a college kid getting a few Mexican pesos at an airport exchange kiosk and George Soros getting a while lot of Mexican pesos directly on the spot market. Maybe George just wants to have one heck of a spring break party in Cabo. It's impossible to know for sure, since currency itself is the very definition of asset liquidity.




...and now y'all can go have some weird dreams in which George Soros and Paul Singer are playing Edward Fortyhands in a dive bar. You're welcome. 8)
 
ludi
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:24 am

NovusBogus wrote:
there's not much functional difference between a college kid getting a few Mexican pesos at an airport exchange kiosk and George Soros getting a while lot of Mexican pesos directly on the spot market. Maybe George just wants to have one heck of a spring break party in Cabo.

George doesn't look to be anywhere near that fun. (Also, there's no such thing as a "few" pesos. The typical rate against USD is something like 25:1 after the casa de cambio takes their share.)
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Glorious
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:25 am

Bensam123 wrote:
Yeah you have no idea what you're talking about.


I have been talking about bitcoin for literally six years. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=76807&p=1076649#p1076649

I said "something is seriously wrong with that picture" in reference to Mt Gox on January 28, 2014. In other words, within weeks of it collapsing. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89612&p=1193902#p1193902

I was the literally the person who noticed that Craig Wright was using a fake letter from SGI which was the first singular solid piece of evidence that indisputably demonstrated *he* was engaging in fraud (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=116857&p=1284581#p1284575

Bensam123 wrote:
You can visit any of the larger exchanges and realize cryptos are legitimate.


What, like bitfinex?

Bensam123 wrote:
You're quoting failed exchanges like Mt Gox and Cryptsy.


Those aren't the only ones, and that's literally 2 in 3 years by your own admission.

Bensam123 wrote:
There are plenty of legitimate ways to get your money out of the 'system'. Bitstamp is popular for euros, I use Coinbase and make regular withdrawls.


https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/comme ... _coinbase/

You *really* need to read my second link. There was a guy at that time who was even saying that he was withdrawing USD just fine at Mt Gox.

But, uh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox#P ... .282013.29 (USD withdrawals ended in June 20, 2013 [unless you were Roger Ver lol])

I ended up having to cite the public documents on Mt Gox's own page to show that what he was saying couldn't be true.

Do I need to make the connection to your own comments explicit, or is it implicit enough for you?

Bensam123 wrote:
And no, Mt Gox and Cryptsy don't happen 'multiple times a year'. Once again you have no idea what you're talking about.


That is a false summation of what I said. I mentioned all kinds of other serious problems.

It is not false to say that there is a major consumer-negative event at a top ten exchange multiple times a year. That's an accurate summary.

Though, again, 2 complete failures of pre-eminent exchanges in just 3 years is a terrible track record: "The prosecution lies & exaggerates, your honor! I didn't kill SIX people, I totally only killed TWO!"

Bensam123 wrote:
You definitely don't regularly read bitcointalk.


Provably false, I listed numerous links to bitcointalk in my post about Mt Gox etc... in Late January 2014. Again, read my second link, the series of posts where I literally say "Isn't this, like, a classic "Problem?" Trollface scenario?" in regards to Mt Gox, which failed scant weeks later.

So, yes, I do. I've clearly been reading it for years.

You're wrong, and knowledge doesn't equate to acceptance of your opinions either.

Bensam123 wrote:
You strike me as someone who read a article or two on cnn and forbes and is talking as if they participate in the community. You don't even think you can get money out of the system, although that wasn't directed exclusively at you.


You can, but it's rife with peril.

Normal Daytrading/speculation is effectively gambling already, but assuming you don't lose your shirt according to the numbers on your many, many monitors, you did it! Whoo! You made teh madbux!

In bitcoin, you then have to worry about an entire second round of possibly losing your shirt, because the exchanges constantly have difficulties. And guess what? If you maintain ANY kind of trading position, it's essentially impossible to not keep funds on the exchanges.

Which is... not good.

Bensam123 wrote:
BTC is probably the safest option for investment, but as I mentioned it's very easy to lose your money (as well as make money).


Fool and his money...
 
NovusBogus
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:40 pm

Coinbase being difficult? That's too bad, they seemed like one of the more respectable ones. I briefly considered attempting a USD withdrawal, but that's taking the coward's way out and would have defeated the whole point of my involvement in the first place. Plus they really wanted my real ID or a bank account, neither of which I particularly trust an exchange with. Little voyeurs would probably complain if the IP address matches a Tor exit node, too. Where's the fun in all that? :)
 
Hawkwing74
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:15 am

Anecdotal comment on the exchange being difficult. Another coworker heard how the first coworker has been "making money" so he tried to buy BTC a few weeks ago right before it had a huge spike. He couldn't get in and buy via coinbase, and so he "lost" $1000 in growth. So yes, in his case, the exchange was not easily usable.
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:20 am

NovusBogus wrote:
Plus they really wanted my real ID or a bank account, neither of which I particularly trust an exchange with. Little voyeurs would probably complain if the IP address matches a Tor exit node, too. Where's the fun in all that? :)

That's what us regulators required from exchanges in return for not forcing them out of the US.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
Vhalidictes
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:09 am

Captain Ned wrote:
NovusBogus wrote:
Plus they really wanted my real ID or a bank account, neither of which I particularly trust an exchange with. Little voyeurs would probably complain if the IP address matches a Tor exit node, too. Where's the fun in all that? :)

That's what us regulators required from exchanges in return for not forcing them out of the US.

In other words, "Follow the money". Which is oxymoronic because if the money is followed too successfully, people will just stop using it.

I don't expect cash to last much longer in the US at least, so... PMs are most likely in our future. Well, that or Beanie Babies.
 
Firestarter
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:41 am

crypto currencies are complex beasts and there's no telling yet how much they should be worth. Maybe the collective value of it all is 0, maybe it's 100 billion USD. How much they're worth to you is something that you can either discover for yourself right now, or you can forget about them and wait until somebody tells you in no uncertain terms. Who knows, if it all goes to hell it'll probably make for a nice movie like The Social Network
 
DPete27
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:09 pm

So if I were just to enter my RX480 into the Ethereum fold today (with Ethereum currently valued at $400/unit) how long would it take to make $250 worth? I've seen youtube vids made at the end of May 2017 saying the payoff of a $2700 rig is about 3 months and the value of ethereum has gone up 50% since then.

I wanna try this but I don't know where to start. Is Ethereum the best bet right now?
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whm1974
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:28 pm

My advice is that it is best to avoid Crypt-currencies entirely, way too risky.
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:38 pm

DPete27 wrote:
I wanna try this but I don't know where to start. Is Ethereum the best bet right now?

Well, it looks like the adjustment to the BitCoin complexity measure has further driven BTC mining to the massive warehouses of ASICs in China getting state-provided power (when I did a presentation on BTC in May 2016 at FRB-Chicago the best stats I could find were from late 2015 and even then, before the complexity shift, the network consumed somewhere between 175MW and 300MW steady-state draw, meaning that even the best ASICs couldn't mine profitably at US electricity prices). I predicted a price rise when the mining rate went down, but never expected anything like this.

I don't know enough about Etherium, but it looks like they've tweaked their algo to let vid cards back in the business for a while. Not sure what/where you can spend/exchange Etherium, so caveat emptor.

Also, always keep an eye on this: https://coinmarketcap.com/
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DPete27
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:08 pm

Just looking for caveat warnings. It seems too good to be true. Don't want to get into something that's unsafe. Is it probably best to format a new drive to use this instead of on my main OS drive/rig?

I'm fine trying it out even if I don't make anything. Heck, I do TRFrankenbot every October with no expectation of a payout from that. Its $15/mo for electricity on hardware I already own. Worth a try.
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whm1974
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:10 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
DPete27 wrote:
I wanna try this but I don't know where to start. Is Ethereum the best bet right now?

Well, it looks like the adjustment to the BitCoin complexity measure has further driven BTC mining to the massive warehouses of ASICs in China getting state-provided power (when I did a presentation on BTC in May 2016 at FRB-Chicago the best stats I could find were from late 2015 and even then, before the complexity shift, the network consumed somewhere between 175MW and 300MW steady-state draw, meaning that even the best ASICs couldn't mine profitably at US electricity prices). I predicted a price rise when the mining rate went down, but never expected anything like this.

I don't know enough about Etherium, but it looks like they've tweaked their algo to let vid cards back in the business for a while. Not sure what/where you can spend/exchange Etherium, so caveat emptor.

Also, always keep an eye on this: https://coinmarketcap.com/

My 2 cents is to invest in real assets and not into something this somewhere between a bubble and a scam. But hey as long you are aware of the risk.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:30 pm

I wouldn't buy new hardware for it. But if you already own the hardware, the expected return (based on current exchange rates) exceeds the projected cost of electricity, and you're willing to risk shortening the life of your video card due to additional wear and tear, there's really no harm. Just be aware that it is possible you'll have nothing to show for it in the end.
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NovusBogus
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:40 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
DPete27 wrote:
I wanna try this but I don't know where to start. Is Ethereum the best bet right now?
I don't know enough about Etherium, but it looks like they've tweaked their algo to let vid cards back in the business for a while. Not sure what/where you can spend/exchange Etherium, so caveat emptor.

Also, always keep an eye on this: https://coinmarketcap.com/

Pretty much all of the altcoins switched to very memory-heavy hashing algorithms to keep those ASIC farms in check. AFAIK Ethereum is also not deflationary like BTC and the others, though I haven't looked up the particulars. It also sees virtually no usage as a means of exchange right now, though obviously that could change if a Bitpay like company pops up and starts making deals with online retailers.

As far as mining rigs, no reason to not take advantage of hardware you already have but I'd be leery of building a new dedicated rig with a nontrivial amount of money unless you're a true believer who's not overly worried about "making money from the Internet." Cryptocurrency mining rate is a very unstable moving target, and numbers that make sense now won't make sense 2-3 months from now.

Speaking of Coinbase...

PSA: Two factor authentication is not bulletproof, especially if BTC is involved:

https://medium.com/@CodyBrown/how-to-lo ... 75fb8d0bac
https://medium.com/@TxdoHawk/i-thought- ... 90f0e758a1
 
just brew it!
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:58 pm

FWIW, reading the history of the Ethereum project on Wikipedia does not exactly inspire confidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethereum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethereum_Classic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_DAO_(organization)
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DPete27
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:17 pm

Well it certainly wasn't an easy process, but I think it's working. My GPU is pegged at 100%. I'll let it grind for a couple days, then try to figure out how to see what I have.

No idea how that works since it only prompts you to create a password for a (randomly generated? ) account name that I have no idea what it is.
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:43 am

NovusBogus wrote:
Pretty much all of the altcoins switched to very memory-heavy hashing algorithms to keep those ASIC farms in check.

There's nothing stopping the ASIC designers from adding DRAM interfaces to their chips though. I suppose it'll still act as a deterrent if the algorithms are constrained by DRAM bandwidth, since adding lots of DRAM channels is tricky/expensive.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Hawkwing74
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:42 am

My coworker is "up" on paper with Ethereum and BTC about $38k. I would sell, but I would have sold long back anyway.

I think he's likely to get burned sometime but he isn't going to take advice from me.
 
whm1974
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:58 am

Hawkwing74 wrote:
My coworker is "up" on paper with Ethereum and BTC about $38k. I would sell, but I would have sold long back anyway.

I think he's likely to get burned sometime but he isn't going to take advice from me.

I would at least cash some of it out every so often to avoid getting burned, or at least buy legal goods that I can use anyway.
 
Hawkwing74
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:02 am

whm1974 wrote:
I would at least cash some of it out every so often to avoid getting burned, or at least buy legal goods that I can use anyway.

He cashed out 1/3 of his original investment. As people said above, I agree he should cash out the other 2/3 of the original. But he is more of a gambler.
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:12 am

Hawkwing74 wrote:
He cashed out 1/3 of his original investment. As people said above, I agree he should cash out the other 2/3 of the original. But he is more of a gambler.

I hope he paid his capital gains taxes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecu ... fc3fd6e3d8
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
Hawkwing74
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:15 am

Captain Ned wrote:
I hope he paid his capital gains taxes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecu ... fc3fd6e3d8

Yeah I was reading that yesterday. I can't give my opinion on capital gains on *everything* or this will go into R&P.

I have no idea if he will pay it, but it would be next year anyway.
 
DPete27
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:24 am

Captain Ned wrote:
I hope he paid his capital gains taxes.

How many TR Gerbils claim their unpaid sales taxes from newegg purchases?
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whm1974
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:31 am

DPete27 wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
I hope he paid his capital gains taxes.

How many TR Gerbils claim their unpaid sales taxes from newegg purchases?

Not very many if any at all... I wonder how miners did bother pay on capital gains taxes, especially when the whole crypto-currency thing started? Come to think of it, the place I even get charge sale tax is Steam. I don't recall if Amazon did since I haven't brought anything from them in a couple of years.
 
Glorious
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:47 am

Captain Ned wrote:
I hope he paid his capital gains taxes.


I read a Tax Notes article that cited this affadavit from an IRS agent in the Coinbase Summons Case in which the IRS said that, in 2015, only *802* individuals filed a 8949 mentioning bitcoin in 2015. :o

The article (which I believe was from either January or February this year) further alludes, albeit briefly, to previous IRS enforcement efforts in other circumstances, like Switzerland ~8-10 years ago.

:P

Captain Ned knows, but that was when US tax enforcement went to war with the concept of private/secret Swiss banking and wink-nod tax evasion, and boy, did we ever take home some scalps. We completely reversed Swiss laws & customs and even annihilated a world-famous centuries-old bank (Wegelin) just to make the lesson clear.

---

I won't allude: The IRS is indeed at war with these exchanges. The US is why bitfinex hasn't been able to move a dollar for nearly 3 months now, and that's just our direct involvement: We clearly started indirectly pressuring China mid-late last year for them to put their indisputably mainland chinese exchanges on notice. And this is just the beginning.

Why? Because these clowns DON'T pay their taxes, and while slow, the US government is inexorable. Sure, blah blah blah BLOCKCHAIN, but while no one is even pretending to seriously advocate bitcoin acceptance anymore, the exchanges remain the obvious problem that I have been pointing out since the beginning.

So, if we could beat Switzerland into submission, an unconquered country fighting for its hundreds of years of tradition, gee. How do you feel about the chances of a bunch of shady exchanges that constantly collapse, get hacked, rob their customers, and suffer mysterious spikes of "DDoS" whenever the BTC price plummets 500-700 USD in day (like, ha, yesterday when btc-e and coinbase had numerous publicly acknowledged "problems" when the price went from ~3000 to ~2400)?
 
whm1974
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:55 am

Glorious wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
I hope he paid his capital gains taxes.


I read a Tax Notes article that cited this affadavit from an IRS agent in the Coinbase Summons Case in which the IRS said that, in 2015, only *802* individuals filed a 8949 mentioning bitcoin in 2015. :o

The article (which I believe was from either January or February this year) further alludes, albeit briefly, to previous IRS enforcement efforts in other circumstances, like Switzerland ~8-10 years ago.

:P

Captain Ned knows, but that was when US tax enforcement went to war with the concept of private/secret Swiss banking and wink-nod tax evasion, and boy, did we ever take home some scalps. We completely reversed Swiss laws & customs and even annihilated a world-famous centuries-old bank (Wegelin) just to make the lesson clear.

---

I won't allude: The IRS is indeed at war with these exchanges. The US is why bitfinex hasn't been able to move a dollar for nearly 3 months now, and that's just our direct involvement: We clearly started indirectly pressuring China mid-late last year for them to put their indisputably mainland chinese exchanges on notice. And this is just the beginning.

Why? Because these clowns DON'T pay their taxes, and while slow, the US government is inexorable. Sure, blah blah blah BLOCKCHAIN, but while no one is even pretending to seriously advocate bitcoin acceptance anymore, the exchanges remain the obvious problem that I have been pointing out since the beginning.

So, if we could beat Switzerland into submission, an unconquered country fighting for its hundreds of years of tradition, gee. How do you feel about the chances of a bunch of shady exchanges that constantly collapse, get hacked, rob their customers, and suffer mysterious spikes of "DDoS" whenever the BTC price plummets 500-700 USD in day (like, ha, yesterday when btc-e and coinbase had numerous publicly acknowledged "problems" when the price went from ~3000 to ~2400)?

I have heard that the IRS gets really nasty toward US citizens who don't pay capital gains taxes and treats those cheaters far worse then those who cheat on income taxes.
 
Glorious
Gerbilus Supremus
Posts: 12343
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:05 am

whm1974 wrote:
I have heard that the IRS gets really nasty toward US citizens who don't pay capital gains taxes and treats those cheaters far worse then those who cheat on income taxes.


No, the ones they've been on a absolute rampage against are those with secret foreign assets. If you didn't take one of the various amnesties, your lawyers would thank God if they were just after you for felony tax fraud (not even some generic misdemeanor evasion!) instead.

If you have a FBAR problem you are FUBAR'd.

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