Personal computing discussed

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whm1974
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:17 am

Glorious wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
I have heard that the IRS gets really nasty toward US citizens who don't pay capital gains taxes and treats those cheaters far worse then those who cheat on income taxes.


No, the ones they've been on a absolute rampage against are those with secret foreign assets. If you didn't take one of the various amnesties, your lawyers would thank God if they were just after you for felony tax fraud (not even some generic misdemeanor evasion!) instead.

If you have a FBAR problem you are FUBAR'd.

I certainly wouldn't want to get into trouble with the IRS.
 
Yan
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:27 am

just brew it! wrote:
and you're willing to risk shortening the life of your video card due to additional wear and tear

Is there any evidence that "mining" physically damages the video card? I agree it would make sense, but I'm wondering if there's any actual evidence.
 
whm1974
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:32 am

Yan wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
and you're willing to risk shortening the life of your video card due to additional wear and tear

Is there any evidence that "mining" physically damages the video card? I agree it would make sense, but I'm wondering if there's any actual evidence.

I've heard reports that AMD cards that were used in mining were failing a months after they sold later as refurbished to gamers looking to save money when this whole mining craziness first started.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:32 am

Yan wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
and you're willing to risk shortening the life of your video card due to additional wear and tear

Is there any evidence that "mining" physically damages the video card? I agree it would make sense, but I'm wondering if there's any actual evidence.

At the very least, it forces the fan to run at full speed all the time. That'll wear the fan out faster even if the electronic components are not damaged at all.
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Glorious
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:35 am

Yan wrote:
Is there any evidence that "mining" physically damages the video card? I agree it would make sense, but I'm wondering if there's any actual evidence.


Those fans really aren't rated to run 100% 24/7, particularly not when pushing higher temperature air.

I don't know how anyone could have a dataset with enough rigor to statistically demonstrate it, but I can personally say that video cards aren't exactly the most reliable component to begin with, and 24/7 full power/heat cannot be doing them any favors.
 
ludi
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:21 am

Yan wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
and you're willing to risk shortening the life of your video card due to additional wear and tear

Is there any evidence that "mining" physically damages the video card? I agree it would make sense, but I'm wondering if there's any actual evidence.

I can't point to anybody's study, and given the nature of the crypto-currency markets I doubt you could get good data for one, short of setting up a purpose-built testbed. But it's enough to know the miners are not making a long-term investment, they're running their equipment as hard as possible for the short time in which it is still valuable to them, and then dumping it for whatever residual they can get.

Ask any middle/high-end gamer which part in their system fails first, and "vidoe cards" will be somewhere in the top three. It's already a heavily stressed component due to the nature of the manufacturing cycle, the heat output, and the form-factor. Buying it after someone else put 1800 hours of full-power operation on it guarantees a shorter life, the only question is how much shorter.
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Vhalidictes
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:27 am

Glorious wrote:
Why? Because these clowns DON'T pay their taxes, and while slow, the US government is inexorable. Sure, blah blah blah BLOCKCHAIN, but while no one is even pretending to seriously advocate bitcoin acceptance anymore, the exchanges remain the obvious problem that I have been pointing out since the beginning.


Glorious, I'm a little surprised to see you arguing in favor of the IRS. It's interesting to me that the US is one of only a few countries in the world that assesses foreign income of its citizens.
 
Vhalidictes
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:29 am

whm1974 wrote:
Yan wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
and you're willing to risk shortening the life of your video card due to additional wear and tear

Is there any evidence that "mining" physically damages the video card? I agree it would make sense, but I'm wondering if there's any actual evidence.

I've heard reports that AMD cards that were used in mining were failing a months after they sold later as refurbished to gamers looking to save money when this whole mining craziness first started.


Yeah, it's not really that good a deal as those cards are mostly done when they're resold. It's possible that the RX series might outlast the craze, they are fairly low-power GPUs.

I don't know that I'd take the risk though.
 
Yan
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:46 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
Glorious wrote:
Glorious, I'm a little surprised to see you arguing in favor of the IRS. It's interesting to me that the US is one of only a few countries in the world that assesses foreign income of its citizens.

Many (most? all?) countries tax the foreign income of their residents. The US is unique in taxing non-resident citizens.

Since I'm in Canada, I have no opinion about the IRS, but the IRS doesn't make the rules.
 
Glorious
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:59 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
Glorious, I'm a little surprised to see you arguing in favor of the IRS. It's interesting to me that the US is one of only a few countries in the world that assesses foreign income of its citizens.


FATCA (and the pre-existing tax regime it strongly reinforces) is an explicit act of Congress, not a regulatory ruling by the IRS. So on that basis alone there is no reason for me to disfavor the IRS.

I am, of course, against the concept of citizen-based taxation and very dismayed at the comically non-reciprocal implementation of FATCA, but in this context, the former is irrelevant and the latter immaterial.

Particularly since you're not even being accurate, as the issue is not "foreign income", it is non-resident *AND* foreign income: Virtually every country taxes their residents, citizen or otherwise, for their income, foreign or otherwise. The difference you speak of is how the US, probably uniquely at the point, taxes its citizens regardless of residency or income source in perpetuity.

So, if you are an American citizen resident in the United States and realize a gain via selling bitcoins on foreign exchange, yes, you should pay taxes on them. This is not a distinguishing feature of the United States tax regime, it is just utterly pedestrian scofflawery.

That fact that other aspects of our tax regime are inequitable or even unjust does not mean bitcoin aficionados get a free pass on not paying basic taxes anymore than I should be able to convince my company to cease withholding and just cut me a check for my gross pay.
 
Vhalidictes
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:19 pm

Ah, I get it. You're against citizen income taxation in a general sense but since it's a thing the altcoin crowd should suffer as well follow the same laws as everyone else.
 
DPete27
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:30 pm

just brew it! wrote:
At the very least, it forces the fan to run at full speed all the time. That'll wear the fan out faster even if the electronic components are not damaged at all.

I checked in on my mining this morning. GPU humming along at 100% utilization, 63C, fans at 17%. Since I know I need exponentially more voltage above ~1266MHz I decided to run at 1235MHz and 930mV. Stay frosty!!
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whm1974
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:30 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
Ah, I get it. You're against citizen income taxation in a general sense but since it's a thing the altcoin crowd should suffer as well follow the same laws as everyone else.

How could we run modern government without citizen income taxation?
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:32 pm

And this is where the discussion needs to move to R&P.
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whm1974
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:38 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
And this is where the discussion needs to move to R&P.

Sorry about that. Even without me butting in, this would have moved to R&P anyway...
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:59 pm

Debate split and moved here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=119733
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
DPete27
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:37 pm

Nearing 24 hours of Ethereum mining and.....color me frustrated.
1) I spent a few hours getting everything set up last night. It was no easy task. It just amazes me how someone good enough at coding/programming to make such a complex computing system such as Ethereum can somehow not manage to create a singular graphical UI for users...... Furthermore, to not even include a comprehensive setup guide with your program download.
2) Tutorials were barely helpful, many of which are over a year old. If you have problems, good luck.
3) When I got home from work today I googled how to check my Ethereum balance.....which said my balance is zero. So either I set the miner up wrong, made some error in the vague account creation process, or I made an error in checking my balance.
4) With all these problems already, I dread having to figure out how to actually get US Dollars out of this whole ordeal.

Maybe all this complexity is on purpose to deter new users. I dunno.
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Yan
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:17 pm

DPete27 wrote:
3) When I got home from work today I googled how to check my Ethereum balance.....which said my balance is zero. So either I set the miner up wrong, made some error in the vague account creation process, or I made an error in checking my balance.

I don't know about Ethereum specifically, but the way most of these currencies work, you "mine" for a longish period of time (much longer than 24 hours) and get a largish credit.

You might want to join a pool. Many miners mine together and share the results. That way, instead of getting a largish credit once in a blue moon, you'll get smaller credits much more frequently.

According to this calculator, with a RX 480, expect to get 0.448217 ETH per month. I don't know what are the sizes of the credits for Ethereum, but surely they're at least 1 ETH. In other words, if you don't join a pool, don't expect to get a credit more often than once every two months, on average (and possibly much longer, depending on how Ethereum works).
 
NovusBogus
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:24 pm

DPete27 wrote:
Nearing 24 hours of Ethereum mining and.....color me frustrated.
1) I spent a few hours getting everything set up last night. It was no easy task. It just amazes me how someone good enough at coding/programming to make such a complex computing system such as Ethereum can somehow not manage to create a singular graphical UI for users...... Furthermore, to not even include a comprehensive setup guide with your program download.

Welcome to the world of open source software; volunteer contributors tend to worship the command line. Even those projects that do offer a GUI tend to just have it tacked onto a CLI-based core (see Linux, git, etc.). It's the FOSS tradeoff, power and freedom at the expense of general usability and noob-friendliness.

2) Tutorials were barely helpful, many of which are over a year old. If you have problems, good luck.

See #1, also bear in mind that many of the cryptocurrency subject matter experts are in it for themselves so helping others runs counter to their stated purpose. This is triply true of altcoins, which tend to lack BTC's political undercurrent in favor of pure greed and speculation. They do exist, they just tend to be drowned out in all the noise.

3) When I got home from work today I googled how to check my Ethereum balance.....which said my balance is zero. So either I set the miner up wrong, made some error in the vague account creation process, or I made an error in checking my balance.

This is gonna depend on how you have your miner configured, whether it's directly hooked to the network or part of a mining pool, how the pool payout is calculated, etc. I haven't followed Ethereum all that closely so I'm not sure what the prevailing winds are here. It's going to be hard to remotely debug what's going on here, so probably more reading in your future.

4) With all these problems already, I dread having to figure out how to actually get US Dollars out of this whole ordeal.

I have a rather dim view of the exchanges, so I certainly won't argue that cashing out in favor of fiat is an easy proposition. The difficulty is going from store credit to actual cash money, and the last time there was a cryptobubble a bunch of exchanges got conveniently 'hacked' right about the time users were trying to cash out. As noted, BTC can be used to buy things on many websites but AFAIK nobody's touched the others. Maybe go from ETH to BTC to cool stuff from Newegg?

Maybe all this complexity is on purpose to deter new users. I dunno.

Well...yeah. Cryptocurrency is the domain of cipherpunks, anarchists, and hackers. Tread lightly.

Again, there's basically two factions in play here. One will do anything to make a quick buck, and the other liked the Helios ending in Deus Ex so much that they're trying to make it a real thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm supportive of the basic idea of cryptocurrency and think it's good that you're learning it without sinking a whole lot of money on new hardware, but my reasons for being so have very little to do with income potential and a whole lot to do with R&P and my tendency to prefer the company of machines.
 
DrDominodog51
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:48 pm

I recently started mining Ethereum myself since my Fury spends its life idling around.

DPete27 wrote:
Nearing 24 hours of Ethereum mining and.....color me frustrated.
1) I spent a few hours getting everything set up last night. It was no easy task. It just amazes me how someone good enough at coding/programming to make such a complex computing system such as Ethereum can somehow not manage to create a singular graphical UI for users...... Furthermore, to not even include a comprehensive setup guide with your program download.
2) Tutorials were barely helpful, many of which are over a year old. If you have problems, good luck.
3) When I got home from work today I googled how to check my Ethereum balance.....which said my balance is zero. So either I set the miner up wrong, made some error in the vague account creation process, or I made an error in checking my balance.
4) With all these problems already, I dread having to figure out how to actually get US Dollars out of this whole ordeal.

Maybe all this complexity is on purpose to deter new users. I dunno.


1) What software are you using? I'm using Mist for my wallet which has a nice GUI, but my mining software, Claymore's Dual Ethereum Miner, has a good command line interface.

2) Yip. I agree 100% with this point.

3) Are you mining in a pool or by yourself?

4) Some website, I saw, claims to be able to do this. The company running the website is based in CA and seems to comply with US law. The website requires a driver's license be on file. I haven't tried the website yet, so I'm not linking it here though.
Last edited by DrDominodog51 on Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Captain Ned
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:56 pm

DrDominodog51 wrote:
4) Some website, I saw, claims to be able to do this. It is based in CA and seems to comply with US law. It requires a driver's license be on file with the website. I haven't tried the website yet, so I'm not linking it here though.

Day job here. Any US-based endpoint (where coins become USD & vice versa) MUST honor the Customer Identification Program rules laid out in the anti-money laundering regulations (31 CFR Chapter X, for the terminally sleep-deprived). Chief among that is a scan of a photo ID and a hard physical address.

Don't get into "coin" thinking you'll be anonymous.

[/Day Job]
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Yan
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:43 pm

NovusBogus wrote:
DPete27 wrote:

4) With all these problems already, I dread having to figure out how to actually get US Dollars out of this whole ordeal.

I have a rather dim view of the exchanges, so I certainly won't argue that cashing out in favor of fiat is an easy proposition. The difficulty is going from store credit to actual cash money, and the last time there was a cryptobubble a bunch of exchanges got conveniently 'hacked' right about the time users were trying to cash out. As noted, BTC can be used to buy things on many websites but AFAIK nobody's touched the others. Maybe go from ETH to BTC to cool stuff from Newegg?

I've successfully changed Litecoins to real euros deposited in a bank account at Kraken.
 
Redocbew
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:03 pm

Did you say "REEEELEASE THE KRRAAAAKEN!!!" before making the exchange?
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just brew it!
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:54 pm

@DPete27 -

Based on a few minutes of poking around on Google, it looks like with a single node mining solo your production rate is going to be very uneven, as there's a statistical "luck of the draw" element to whether it generates a block that you will get credit for. You may go days (or weeks? not sure...) without producing anything.

I've also seen a few references to the fact that the total amount of new Ethereum generated per year is fixed. If that's the case, then with all the recent interest in Ethereum mining you've got a vastly expanded pool of users chasing after a fixed supply of additional Ethereum. So time to mine a unit for any given user goes way up. The price of Ethereum has also gone way up, offsetting this; but I have no idea whether the price increase is proportionally less or more than the increase in mining difficulty.
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Captain Ned
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:57 pm

Redocbew wrote:
Did you say "REEEELEASE THE KRRAAAAKEN!!!" before making the exchange?

Do you play World of Warships??
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whm1974
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:10 pm

just brew it! wrote:
@DPete27 -

Based on a few minutes of poking around on Google, it looks like with a single node mining solo your production rate is going to be very uneven, as there's a statistical "luck of the draw" element to whether it generates a block that you will get credit for. You may go days (or weeks? not sure...) without producing anything.

I've also seen a few references to the fact that the total amount of new Ethereum generated per year is fixed. If that's the case, then with all the recent interest in Ethereum mining you've got a vastly expanded pool of users chasing after a fixed supply of additional Ethereum. So time to mine a unit for any given user goes way up. The price of Ethereum has also gone way up, offsetting this; but I have no idea whether the price increase is proportionally less or more than the increase in mining difficulty.

Personally I rather go with bitcoin first since there are already exchanges and places to buy goods for bitcoins. Does NewEgg take Bitcoins or other Crypt-currencies?
 
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:15 pm

The problem with bitcoin is that it isn't economical to mine any more unless you have an ASIC-based miner and nearly-free electricity.
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whm1974
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:20 pm

just brew it! wrote:
The problem with bitcoin is that it isn't economical to mine any more unless you have an ASIC-based miner and nearly-free electricity.

Well in my case my power bill is included in my rent. I suppose I could get a couple of ASICs and start mining, hell if it would allow to buy more and better computer hardware than I could otherwise afford it be worth it. Unfortunately I would end up getting kicked out by my case manager boss for having a sky high power bill.
 
DPete27
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:06 am

I had seen some things about mining pools when I initially started. Looks like I do indeed want to get into a pool since I'm not in this for the long haul (or confident that ethereum will stay at it's current value) I got into nanopool last night. However, when I checked this morning, ethminer had crashed with a DAG error. I had a heck of a time getting it to even run last night (since there are wildly varying instructions on how to set this up). Any other mining pool recommendations?

DrDominodog51 wrote:
What software are you using?

Was on geth and ethminer mining solo. As I mentioned, I was trying to get set up to mine for a pool last night. I saw nanopool had a link to Claymore also, but Chrome blocked the download reporting a virus. If you wouldn't mind helping me out, send me a PM. Maybe we can skype or something.
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ptsant
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Re: Tell me about the new Crypto-Currency

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:13 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Hawkwing74 wrote:
I think he is in Bitcoin for the "long haul." :o

You might want to let him know that, despite what proponents believe, tracing Bitcoin transactions to individuals is trivially easy these days.

[/day job]


Even when the individual has a personal wallet? Wouldn't that mean matching the IP to a person? Law enforcement can do it, but is it trivially easy for NON-law enforcement?
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