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whm1974
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Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:33 am

I just watched this on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29u_FejNuks
Now that the fact that Ketchup was first a spicy fish sauce from China and then turned into a mushroom sauce by the English I already knew, but I didn't know that it is fairly easy to make, if a bit time consuming to do. Nor did I know that left over "solids" could be turned a spice as well.

Now I like to know where I can buy a bottle of this stuff? Would I have to make myself? Would it be worthwhile for me to do so?
Has anyone here ever made the stuff?
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:41 am

Many (if not most) foods we typically buy only in mass produced form aren't that hard to make at home. Some restaurants make their own ketchup too; it's trendy to be able to claim that all of your ingredients are "locally sourced", and for condiments like ketchup that typically means you need to make it in-house since there aren't many small local producers.
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whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:23 am

I already knew that Ketchup sauces in the early US and colonial days used to be mushroom and walnut based due to reading about that time period. Not that I'm a food snob, but I try to eat foods that are different from what most other people in my "social/economic class" eat. Like I will not eat white bread, bologna, and mayo for example. Or cheap hot dogs. And I avoid regular ketchup due to the lack of taste and the high amount of sugar.

Now the leftover part left after squeezing all liquid out of that bag as shown in the video, I had thought they just threw that stuff away. I didn't know you could dry and ground that to make food seasoning. Well I'm learning something new every time I watch these kind of videos.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:43 am

The Philippines invented an even weirder ketchup - Banana ketchup during WWII, when there was a shortage of tomatoes, but lots of bananas around.
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whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:47 am

DreadCthulhu wrote:
The Philippines invented an even weirder ketchup - Banana ketchup during WWII, when there was a shortage of tomatoes, but lots of bananas around.

If I ever get the chance to try that I will. Do they still make it in the Philippines?
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:51 am

whm1974 wrote:
If I ever get the chance to try that I will. Do they still make it in the Philippines?


https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss ... na+ketchup
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:59 am

Captain Ned wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
If I ever get the chance to try that I will. Do they still make it in the Philippines?


https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss ... na+ketchup

Thanks Ned. Have you tried it?
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:06 am

Yes, but not in the Philippines. All of those products are Caribbean-based, which means they'll also be bringing some spice with them. I don't remember the brand, but I remember the spicier ones as being really good over conch fritters in the British Virgin Islands.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:09 am

Did a brief search for Mushroom Ketchup and the only stuff I can find is imported from England. No one in the US produces it?
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:11 am

whm1974 wrote:
Did a brief search for Mushroom Ketchup and the only stuff I can find is imported from England. No one in the US produces it?

I'm sure some cheffy-types do in their own restaurants, but it just doesn't have a market here.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:16 am

Captain Ned wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Did a brief search for Mushroom Ketchup and the only stuff I can find is imported from England. No one in the US produces it?

I'm sure some cheffy-types do in their own restaurants, but it just doesn't have a market here.

This is part of American History. Sigh, we don't know what we are missing. :(
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:36 am

Well, the few recipes I Googled look really simple, so have at.

EDIT: These two are related and look pretty authentic.

https://savoringthepast.net/2016/04/13/ ... m-ketchup/
https://revolutionarypie.com/2013/03/14 ... m-ketchup/

A really easy way out would be to put some ground mushroom powder in a bottle of worcestershire sauce, since worcestershire is but an intermediate step from the original fish sauce to mushroom, then tomato kethup.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:34 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Well, the few recipes I Googled look really simple, so have at.

EDIT: These two are related and look pretty authentic.

https://savoringthepast.net/2016/04/13/ ... m-ketchup/
https://revolutionarypie.com/2013/03/14 ... m-ketchup/

A really easy way out would be to put some ground mushroom powder in a bottle of worcestershire sauce, since worcestershire is but an intermediate step from the original fish sauce to mushroom, then tomato kethup.

Yeah looks fairly simple enough to do. I'm surprised that Jas Townsend and Son isn't selling this themselves. I would buy a bottle or two just to try it. I suppose I could go the easy method and just use mushroom powder and Worcestershire sauce, but that is cheating.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:39 am

whm1974 wrote:
Yeah looks fairly simple enough to do. I'm surprised that Jas Townsend and Son isn't selling this themselves.

Setting up a business to produce and distribute a perishable food product on a commercial scale is a pretty big PITA (and for something like this, unlikely to be very profitable). Presumably they don't want to make a full-time job of it and would rather keep making videos, blogging, and selling related (non-perishable) paraphernalia instead.
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whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:48 am

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Yeah looks fairly simple enough to do. I'm surprised that Jas Townsend and Son isn't selling this themselves.

Setting up a business to produce and distribute a perishable food product on a commercial scale is a pretty big PITA. Presumably they don't want to make a full-time job of it and would rather keep making videos, blogging, and selling related (non-perishable) paraphernalia instead.

Yeah that would make sense. For some odd ball reason I keep seeing untapped "business opportunities" everywhere, but I lack the motivation and of course the funding to pursue them.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:50 am

whm1974 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Yeah looks fairly simple enough to do. I'm surprised that Jas Townsend and Son isn't selling this themselves.

Setting up a business to produce and distribute a perishable food product on a commercial scale is a pretty big PITA. Presumably they don't want to make a full-time job of it and would rather keep making videos, blogging, and selling related (non-perishable) paraphernalia instead.

Yeah that would make sense. For some odd ball reason I keep seeing untapped "business opportunities" everywhere, but I lack the motivation and of course the funding to pursue them.

I think you've also got some pretty strange ideas about what would be a potentially marketable/profitable product. That's at least as big of an issue as motivation and funding. At least mushroom ketchup is a lot more plausible than the lab grown canned meat idea you were pitching in the Spam thread.
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whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:58 am

just brew it! wrote:
I think you've also got some pretty strange ideas about what would be a potentially marketable/profitable product. That's at least as big of an issue as motivation and funding. At least mushroom ketchup is a lot more plausible than the lab grown canned meat idea you were pitching in the Spam thread.

Hey the Canned Cultured Meat can use the left overs from the mushroom ketchup as flavouring. Call it Colonial American flavor or such.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:06 am

whm1974 wrote:
Hey the Canned Cultured Meat can use the left overs from the mushroom ketchup as flavouring. Call it Colonial American flavor or such.

Spread those spent mushroom bits on some sheet pans and leave them in the sun for a couple of hours and you've got some concentrated flavor right there. Grind it up and sprinkle that over some pasta or ramen for an instant umami bomb.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:12 am

Captain Ned wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Hey the Canned Cultured Meat can use the left overs from the mushroom ketchup as flavouring. Call it Colonial American flavor or such.

Spread those spent mushroom bits on some sheet pans and leave them in the sun for a couple of hours and you've got some concentrated flavor right there. Grind it up and sprinkle that over some pasta or ramen for an instant umami bomb.

I'm quite sure a little will go a long way.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:18 pm

Hmm, umami is generally from free glutamate and is why sauces like garum (and related fish sauces including Worcestershire and the mentioned original ketchup) or soy sauce are fermented (the organisms chosen have the proper proteases to digest the proteins). Marmite is created from autolysis of yeast, which presumably has its own proteases for this.

This mushroom ketchup sounds salty like the umami sauces, and mushrooms do already contain some glutamate (at least the darker parts). As it's from the 18th century when sugar was still a luxury good, it's also not going to be anything like modern sweet sauces such as the mentioned banana ketchup, tomato ketchup or plum sauce so the name could be problematic for marketing. It will also necessarily be much more expensive than mushroom gravy (which is largely flour).

There's a popular recipe for a dried ground porcini mushroom salt called, of all things, "Magic Mushroom Powder"
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:32 pm

bfg-9000 wrote:
Hmm, umami is generally from free glutamate and is why sauces like garum (and related fish sauces including Worcestershire and the mentioned original ketchup) or soy sauce are fermented (the organisms chosen have the proper proteases to digest the proteins). Marmite is created from autolysis of yeast, which presumably has its own proteases for this.

This mushroom ketchup sounds salty like the umami sauces, and mushrooms do already contain some glutamate (at least the darker parts). As it's from the 18th century when sugar was still a luxury good, it's also not going to be anything like modern sweet sauces such as the mentioned banana ketchup, tomato ketchup or plum sauce so the name could be problematic for marketing. It will also necessarily be much more expensive than mushroom gravy (which is largely flour).

There's a popular recipe for a dried ground porcini mushroom salt called, of all things, "Magic Mushroom Powder"

I wonder how many people buy this thinking it is something else entirely?
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:36 pm

Now I'm wondering if I grind this a bit finer it I could convince the local junkies to buy this from me?
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:05 pm

WTF, dude. Are you on "magic mushroons" yourself? :roll:
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:12 pm

just brew it! wrote:
WTF, dude. Are you on "magic mushroons" yourself? :roll:

Nope, just overthinking of ways to make money.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:20 pm

whm1974 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
WTF, dude. Are you on "magic mushroons" yourself? :roll:

Nope, just overthinking of ways to make money.

And maybe get yourself beat up by a pissed off "customer"?
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:25 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
WTF, dude. Are you on "magic mushroons" yourself? :roll:

Nope, just overthinking of ways to make money.

And maybe get yourself beat up by a pissed off "customer"?

Sell it as an "high enhancer"
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:29 pm

Yeah that's kinda playing into jbi's point there.
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:06 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Now I like to know where I can buy a bottle of this stuff? Would I have to make myself? Would it be worthwhile for me to do so?

If you were to actually try/buy/make even a quarter of the various stuffs that you threaten to try/buy/make around here, we would be watching YOUR variety show on YouTube.
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whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:29 pm

ludi wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Now I like to know where I can buy a bottle of this stuff? Would I have to make myself? Would it be worthwhile for me to do so?

If you were to actually try/buy/make even a quarter of the various stuffs that you threaten to try/buy/make around here, we would be watching YOUR variety show on YouTube.

If I can get off my ass and do some of this stuff, you guys could watch me do on it Youtube.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:34 pm

It's posts like that that make me wonder if you're a bot.
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