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just brew it!
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:03 pm

The 2 tablespoons given in the recipe sounds a bit much given some of the comments in the Amazon listing. Regardless, I'm intrigued as well.
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whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Maybe we can start something like providing recipes for foodies on low and fixed incomes for meals that tastes way better then the SAD, but don't cost a whole lot.
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:12 pm

A good friend of mine went through culinary school, spent time working up the chain at several primo Boston restaurants, then came back home to VT to get out of the culinary rat-race. He's now the senior flavor designer for Ben & Jerry's (nb: This has some personal benefits, mainly wife & I are advance testers). If you've ever seen a food-porn show about how B&J comes up with things, you've seen him.

His raw-egg hand-whisked Caesar salad with quality anchovies (i.e. not the Cento tinned stuff) is simply amazing.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:24 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Maybe we can start something like providing recipes for foodies on low and fixed incomes for meals that tastes way better then the SAD, but don't cost a whole lot.

Therein lies the rub. I have no desire to know your domicile but if you want to find some of these "out-of-the-way" ingredients you either need to pony up on Amazon or start searching out in local ethnic groceries (one high point of my local area being so accepting of refugees is that the variety of ethnic food stores simply boggles the mind). They're out there, you just need to let yourself walk through the door. If you happen to live in a place that does farmers' markets, not only will you see some of these things for sale, you'll also be able to ask (be very respectful here) where you might be able to acquire the same yourself. Make friends with your ethnic restauranter/grocers/food trucks.

Remember, most ethnic recipes (especially Asian) have been about stretching expensive protein with locally-derived cheap flavors that could be gathered easily on a quick walk.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:25 pm

just brew it! wrote:
The 2 tablespoons given in the recipe sounds a bit much given some of the comments in the Amazon listing. Regardless, I'm intrigued as well.

I'm quite sure you can adjust to taste. I'm wondering how long the bottle will last if you reduced the amount used to two teaspoons?
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:30 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Maybe we can start something like providing recipes for foodies on low and fixed incomes for meals that tastes way better then the SAD, but don't cost a whole lot.

Therein lies the rub. I have no desire to know your domicile but if you want to find some of these "out-of-the-way" ingredients you either need to pony up on Amazon or start searching out in local ethnic groceries (one high point of my local area being so accepting of refugees is that the variety of ethnic food stores simply boggles the mind). They're out there, you just need to let yourself walk through the door. If you happen to live in a place that does farmers' markets, not only will you see some of these things for sale, you'll also be able to ask (be very respectful here) where you might be able to acquire the same yourself. Make friends with your ethnic restauranter/grocers/food trucks.

Remember, most ethnic recipes (especially Asian) have been about stretching expensive protein with locally-derived cheap flavors that could be gathered easily on a quick walk.

Thanks Ned. Looks like I will have to go out of my comfort zone to buy some of this stuff. I do own a slow cooker and even use it every now and then, so maybe I'll start using it more often. On another note, I would like to try my hand at making pumpkin stew later this year.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:32 pm

whm1974 wrote:
I'm quite sure you can adjust to taste. I'm wondering how long the bottle will last if you reduced the amount used to two teaspoons?

One teaspoon is 4.93ml. I'll leave the rest to you.

As I said, this would be a "company" dinner where your inner Sicilian is using all of the high-end stuff for that specific reason.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:38 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
I'm quite sure you can adjust to taste. I'm wondering how long the bottle will last if you reduced the amount used to two teaspoons?

One teaspoon is 4.93ml. I'll leave the rest to you.

As I said, this would be a "company" dinner where your inner Sicilian is using all of the high-end stuff for that specific reason.

Oh I understand that, but I was thinking of buying a bottle of that stuff and using it more often than a once or twice a year type of thing. Hence using teaspoons instead of tablespoons.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:41 pm

whm1974 wrote:
do own a slow cooker and even use it every now and then, so maybe I'll start using it more often.

Hhrm. If you're really looking to taste these new spices, you need to be sauteing this stuff right to the point of serving (a wok would be better). Once you get beyond oregano, thyme, rosemary, and cumin, crockpots are where spices either go to die or so concentrate as to make the end result inedible.

That fresh pasta dish, once the water is boiling, is 3-5 minutes from pasta in water to plate. Don't forget to save some of the pasta water as that's the single best ingredient for firming up pasta sauces. Have your sauce hot, move the drained pasta to the sauce, then add pasta water as needed to firm up the sauce and make everything silky.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:45 pm

whm1974 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
The 2 tablespoons given in the recipe sounds a bit much given some of the comments in the Amazon listing. Regardless, I'm intrigued as well.

I'm quite sure you can adjust to taste. I'm wondering how long the bottle will last if you reduced the amount used to two teaspoons?

Of course you can adjust. But never having made it before, there's no way of knowing whether the suggested amount is to your taste or not without doing it at least once. 2 tbsp is about 1/3 of the bottle... 2 tsp more like 1/10th.
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just brew it!
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:47 pm

Also, like Ned says, you don't need to buy expensive ingredients to make really good food. Most ethnic recipes came from "the common folk". It's all in knowing how to prepare those ingredients, and GIYF there. :wink:

And yes, if you're going to do a lot of Asian cooking, you really want a wok. Is your stove electric or gas? Electric may be a bit of a challenge...
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whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:48 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
do own a slow cooker and even use it every now and then, so maybe I'll start using it more often.

Hhrm. If you're really looking to taste these new spices, you need to be sauteing this stuff right to the point of serving (a wok would be better). Once you get beyond oregano, thyme, rosemary, and cumin, crockpots are where spices either go to die or so concentrate as to make the end result inedible.

That fresh pasta dish, once the water is boiling, is 3-5 minutes from pasta in water to plate. Don't forget to save some of the pasta water as that's the single best ingredient for firming up pasta sauces. Have your sauce hot, move the drained pasta to the sauce, then add pasta water as needed to firm up the sauce and make everything silky.

Right, but slow cookers are great for making stews out of tough cuts of meat that take a long time to cook properly. I like slow cookers because they are basically "fire and forget" type of cooking.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:50 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Also, like Ned says, you don't need to buy expensive ingredients to make really good food. Most ethnic recipes came from "the common folk". It's all in knowing how to prepare those ingredients, and GIYF there. :wink:

And yes, if you're going to do a lot of Asian cooking, you really want a wok. Is your stove electric or gas? Electric may be a bit of a challenge...

Unfortunately I don't own a wok, and my stove is electric.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:58 pm

Well, you're not going to be able to make authentic tasting Asian dishes in a slow cooker. A skillet on an electric stove may give acceptable results for small amounts, but don't expect to be able to make more than a couple of portions at once. The key to good stir fry is short cooking times over very high heat.
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whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:08 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Well, you're not going to be able to make authentic tasting Asian dishes in a slow cooker. A skillet on an electric stove may give acceptable results for small amounts, but don't expect to be able to make more than a couple of portions at once. The key to good stir fry is short cooking times over very high heat.

I guess I would have to buy a wok and do some experimenting with my stove.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:13 pm

just brew it! wrote:
The key to good stir fry is short cooking times over very high heat.

When the mood hits me for stir-fry, I set up the brew burner on the back deck just to have some chance of wok hai. Fueling rates can get to the point where if it's really humid I need to wrap a dish towel soaked in boiling water around the burner/tank regulator.

For those who have never snooped around a true Chinese kitchen:

You may see that row of woks along the back wall and occasionally see massive flames coming out of the pit hole enveloping the wok and reaching to the grease traps. The untold secret of true Chinese restaurant wok cooking is that they have a helper to get those flames of Mt. Doom. Pure oxygen. There's a knee lever by each of those woks that adds pure oxygen to the fire (LOX or GOX doesn't really matter here). Without turning your oxy-acetylene welding/cutting rig into a propane/acetylene rig, you're just never going to get the same temps. It's why us Westerners must make wok dishes in very small batches then combined it all at the end.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:40 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Thanks Ned. Looks like I will have to go out of my comfort zone to buy some of this stuff.

If you've got local ethnic groceries by all means head there. I've yet to find one that won't be helpful if I ask for ingredient X in the wrong language; they actually want to get us New England WASPs buying the real spices. The past 10 years and the local openness to refugee populations has given me food purchasing opportunities that I doubt exist in "metros" similarly-sized or up 1 magnitude.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:54 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Thanks Ned. Looks like I will have to go out of my comfort zone to buy some of this stuff.

If you've got local ethnic groceries by all means head there. I've yet to find one that won't be helpful if I ask for ingredient X in the wrong language; they actually want to get us New England WASPs buying the real spices. The past 10 years and the local openness to refugee populations has given me food purchasing opportunities that I doubt exist in "metros" similarly-sized or up 1 magnitude.

I guess I would have to do some shopping round more widely than I usually do. And as I said earlier Save-A-Lot does have a wider selection of ethic foods than Ruler foods does. Or least they did when I use to shop there regularly some years ago.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:02 pm

whm1974 wrote:
I guess I would have to do some shopping round more widely than I usually do. And as I said earlier Save-A-Lot does have a wider selection of ethic foods than Ruler foods does. Or least they did when I use to shop there regularly some years ago.

You need to leave your comfort zone. Most ethnic groceries are more than happy to teach us whitebreads about what we've been missing, and your palate will be very happy. Best part is that in true ethnic stores, prices are pretty darn reasonable.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:10 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
I guess I would have to do some shopping round more widely than I usually do. And as I said earlier Save-A-Lot does have a wider selection of ethic foods than Ruler foods does. Or least they did when I use to shop there regularly some years ago.

You need to leave your comfort zone. Most ethnic groceries are more than happy to teach us whitebreads about what we've been missing, and your palate will be very happy. Best part is that in true ethnic stores, prices are pretty darn reasonable.

It sure does sounds like it pays to shop around.
 
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:55 pm

An amusing thread.
just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
How hard is to start a campaign promoting mushroom ketchup as putting advertising everywhere that real ketchup doesn't use tomatoes but mushrooms? When you ask for ketchup, demand the real stuff made from mushrooms, not fruit.

Well... if you want to trace it all the way back to its origins, it was really made from fish.

Captain Ned wrote:
WHM:

Here you go. It's the closest thing to old Roman garum.

https://www.amazon.com/IASA-Anchovy-Syr ... 6WGIK?th=1
This puts me in mind of a book a friend of mine gave me. Quite an interesting read... Salt A world History. It details how salt was used to preserve fish (anarobic lactic acid fermentation, fish in a barrel with lots of salt) during the Roman Empire thus leading to large amounts of garum. Some interesting discussion about the deforestation of europe to produce salt. Then the shock on the market when salt mines were discovered. It also discusses in the new world how the fledgling USA managed to make itself salt independent. Also, some quite interesting discussion about salt being the first medium of taxation. First as a requirement that you buy your salt from the king who controlled the price and then ramping up to 'every citizen must buy so many pounds of salt from the king each year at the salt tax cost'.
Last edited by Mr Bill on Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Captain Ned
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:04 pm

Well, the English word "salary" can be traced directly back to the term for the salt ration issued to Roman legionaries, the salarium.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
whm1974
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Re: Mushroom ketchup and spices.

Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:30 pm

Mr Bill wrote:
An amusing thread.
just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
How hard is to start a campaign promoting mushroom ketchup as putting advertising everywhere that real ketchup doesn't use tomatoes but mushrooms? When you ask for ketchup, demand the real stuff made from mushrooms, not fruit.

Well... if you want to trace it all the way back to its origins, it was really made from fish.

Captain Ned wrote:
WHM:

Here you go. It's the closest thing to old Roman garum.

https://www.amazon.com/IASA-Anchovy-Syr ... 6WGIK?th=1
This puts me in mind of a book a friend of mine gave me. Quite an interesting read... Salt A world History. It details how salt was used to preserve fish (anarobic lactic acid fermentation, fish in a barrel with lots of salt) during the Roman Empire thus leading to large amounts of garum. Some interesting discussion about the deforestation of europe to produce salt. Then the shock on the market when salt mines were discovered. It also discusses in the new world how the fledgling USA managed to make itself salt independent. Also, some quite interesting discussion about salt being the first medium of taxation. First as a requirement that you buy your salt from the king who controlled the price and then ramping up to 'every citizen must buy so many pounds of salt from the king each year at the salt tax cost'.

Yeah I have the same book on my kindle. Yeah salt was a widely taxed medium since everyone needed it and use it in some fashion or another. In fact the requirement that subjects had to buy large of amounts of it one of the biggest factors that lead to the overthrow of the Kingdom of France.

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