Personal computing discussed

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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:39 pm

bthylafh wrote:
becoming obsolete. This is Windows 7.

Whew. What a relief. I feel soooo much better. :o
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:45 pm

End User wrote:
GE's statement is clear - iOS and macOS available devices available to their global workforce.

I'll post it again:

"GE will standardize on iPhone and iPad for mobile devices and also promote Mac as a choice for its global workforce of more than 330,000 employees."


It doesn't mean anything. It means that their developers for presentation apps on iOS will use Macs, which is not only blatantly obvious but also, as it turns out, not even remotely new:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/01/ ... ry_company

That's from OVER FIVE years ago, nearly SIX.

I work in this space, I know exactly what they are talking about because they're directly targeting this SDK at people like me. You fundamentally don't even understand what that announcement is about.
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:46 pm

End User wrote:
Why are you a member of a tech site whose primary purpose is to push the latest tech news?


Why are you a member? You're just trolling with this ridiculous schtick.
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:54 pm

A flame war on an in-line, non-threaded discussion forum. Such 2001. So obsolete. Wow.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:55 pm

End User wrote:
Why are you a member of a tech site whose primary purpose is to push the latest tech news?


I might be reaching a bit here, but...

It's very possible that group A "everyone who is interested in the latest technology" and group B "everyone who has the resources to purchase said technology" might not overlap fully.
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:55 pm

End User wrote:
Why are you a member of a tech site whose primary purpose is to push the latest tech news?


Keeping up on tech != mandatory device churn.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:22 pm

End User wrote:
Why are you a member of a tech site whose primary purpose is to push the latest tech news?

Keep it up and the impending lock is on you.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:24 pm

Glorious wrote:
End User wrote:
Say goodbye to the Enterprise

"GE will standardize on iPhone and iPad for mobile devices and also promote Mac as a choice for its global workforce of more than 330,000 employees."


Yeah, OK. See, I don't deal with Predix, but I do routinely deal with its direct competitors and you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

"promote Mac as choice" = You need MacOS to develop for iOS.

This isn't remotely about replacing the Microsoft Corporate laptop/desktop, it's about developers working in Industrial Automation making apps with red/green lights relating to instrument readings on industrial devices so managers can look at them at home or on the floor. It's about how a minor division at GE are now being issued Macs because that's the only way they can build SDK to offer to those developers.

You're completely off-base with this.

This gels with my experience. My "choice" was to either develop for iOS on a Mac or or not develop for iOS.

Also, 330,000 GM employees don't have computers or even a need for them if they're in manufacturing. I started to write a sentence like, "That article sounds like a press release published by Apple." Then I saw it was posted on Apple In Cider and it cited WSJ, which has continued to remain an Apple rah-rah rag long after Mossberg's departure.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:43 pm

Oh my. I was issued a total ban warning by Captain Ned. I'm so naughty for voicing my opinion.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:44 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
This gels with my experience. My "choice" was to either develop for iOS on a Mac or or not develop for iOS.


Right.

When you're in industrial automation you're likely already accustomed to having umpteen different environments. I'm sure there's some industrial concern somewhere that has a real-deal corporate standard for everything in the space, but in regular real-life, according to everything I've ever seen, it's a hodge-podge of randomness strewn over decades of acquisition.

So it's totally not abnormal to get machines, whether virtual or not, to build and develop upon. I have 4 physical computers sitting on my desk right now. It's not uncommon for me to have sessions into 5 different computer architectures across three different OSes, and that's just on the Level 2 side, not the Level 1 side (DCS/PLC).

I could have been issued a Mac too, but I strenuously made the case that we'd be ill-suited to develop apps solely for iOS (at the time you had the choice of blackberry, android, or iphone as your work phone) and instead advocated that we stick to web screens that can be viewed on anything. We have an analytics solution that is not tied to a particular IA vendor like Predix is, mostly because GE stuff (while it exists) isn't as common as Allen-Bradley, Emerson and Foxboro (in that order) in the plants I support.

Now, though, we're all iphone only (as of last month), and I just forcibly got mine when they threatened to de-activate my blackberry. So maybe that (iOS development) will come back around again, I don't know.

And, as someone who just had to set the thing up for email and 2FA VPN, Apple and Enterprise are still not exactly friends. They just won because executives like them, because blackberry cratered in the consumer segment, and because android is a fractured and confusing mess. If I was in procurement, I'd hate to try and think about what to approve as the new corporate standard phone. I don't even want to think about replacing my personal Galaxy S4 because it's like the paradox of choice. The Iphone makes that really easy, and the update support is also good.

But, you know, most importantly, Apple now ruling the non-BYOD corporate phone world is not displacing Microsoft. Microsoft was never there, and their attempts to try were obviously dead several years ago at this point (right? not sure exactly).

And, lolno, a few people being allowed to get Macs through procurement (because they need them or really want them personally) is not the bell being rung as the impending death of MS enterprise. Especially not when I can show another press release from 5.5+ years ago saying the exact same sort of thing about Apple acceptance at GE.

I mean, for heaven's sake.
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:49 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
End User wrote:
Why are you a member of a tech site whose primary purpose is to push the latest tech news?

Keep it up and the impending lock is on you.

WOW!
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:57 pm

Glorious wrote:
I could have been issued a Mac too, but I strenuously made the case that we'd be ill-suited to develop apps solely for iOS (at the time you had the choice of blackberry, android, or iphone as your work phone) and instead advocated that we stick to web screens that can be viewed on anything.

The apps I use most on my Mac are kind of odd:

Microsoft Office 2016 (corporate O365 account) - Word, Excel, and Outlook mostly
Visual Studio 2017 - the artist formerly known as Xamarin Studio
VirtualBox with a VM running Windows 10 and proper VS2017, because the Mac version does not support TFS
Chrome/Firefox/Filezilla

The Mac is literally a hardware dongle for iOS build support. I have Xcode installed because I need the CLI tools (which I don't directly use because Visual Studio scripts the build process), the iOS Simulator for iOS testing, and Application Loader to interface with iTunes Connect. Everything else either comes directly from Microsoft or has a Windows equivalent.

Out of around 4,000 employees there are (from what I can tell) fewer than two dozen Macs used to build various iOS apps in each department. That should be enough to qualify us to have a profile on WSJ linked by Apple Insider, I guess.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:18 pm

spiketheaardvark wrote:
Lab equipment is the worst. Electron microscopes and scintillation counters are among the worst. The technology has been around for a long time, new machines are still rather expensive, but they not noticeably better than the old equipment. The real pain comes in trying to get the data off of these things and onto you laptop. A usb port is a very welcome sight. 3.5 floppies aren't a big issue becuase you can still by USB power external drives. I'm not sure what I'd do if I needed 5.25, i'm not sure the drive or the media is still available. you'd probably have to move the data through two three different machine to get it to something sufficiently modern. I'm convinced most burnable CDs are sold to scientist trying to move data. My new problem is Win XP machines not recognizing my 64gb exfat flash flahs drive. It's to big for fat32 and there are so many Mac users around I don't what to use NTFS. I keep a small flash drive around work with the patch file to enable exfat just this reason.


It's not just due to old tech but security issues can delay upgrades. In many DoD networks flash media or anything with USB connections are unauthorized on networked stations due to security restrictions. Transferring large files is done by burning CD's when emailing is not possible on such networks. Fax machines are also mandatory on the medical side when encryption is not available to relay private patient information.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:18 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
The Mac is literally a hardware dongle for iOS build support. I have Xcode installed because I need the CLI tools (which I don't directly use because Visual Studio scripts the build process), the iOS Simulator for iOS testing, and Application Loader to interface with iTunes Connect. Everything else either comes directly from Microsoft or has a Windows equivalent.


heh.

Some of the aforementioned PCs on my desk are only there because they have literal hardware license dongles, you know, on their parallel port. :wink:

I'm not any sort of OS zealot, much less a UX one, and I always find it really weird when people get all worked up about the relatively trivial matter of what platform they prefer---Oh, that's nice. You have a choice? :wink:
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:05 pm

Glorious wrote:
But, you know, most importantly, Apple now ruling the non-BYOD corporate phone world is not displacing Microsoft. Microsoft was never there, and their attempts to try were obviously dead several years ago at this point (right? not sure exactly).

For BYOD, no, but the Palm Treo on Windows Mobile (was it version 6.5 or something) made decent inroads with corporations, if I recall correctly.
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:24 pm

Glorious wrote:
Some of the aforementioned PCs on my desk are only there because they have literal hardware license dongles, you know, on their parallel port. :wink:


Oh God, I remember HASP dongles.

Not favourably, of course...
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:29 pm

Glorious wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
The Mac is literally a hardware dongle for iOS build support. I have Xcode installed because I need the CLI tools (which I don't directly use because Visual Studio scripts the build process), the iOS Simulator for iOS testing, and Application Loader to interface with iTunes Connect. Everything else either comes directly from Microsoft or has a Windows equivalent.


heh.

Some of the aforementioned PCs on my desk are only there because they have literal hardware license dongles, you know, on their parallel port. :wink:

I'm not any sort of OS zealot, much less a UX one, and I always find it really weird when people get all worked up about the relatively trivial matter of what platform they prefer---Oh, that's nice. You have a choice? :wink:


We still have some software that uses a hardware dongle, even though in some cases it can be served up via the network. It is a pain in the ass because then you need a physical machine to serve it up rather than a VM. (Server guys don't want to pin a USB port to a VM cause then it's stuck on one VMware host)
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:30 pm

K-L-Waster wrote:
Glorious wrote:
Some of the aforementioned PCs on my desk are only there because they have literal hardware license dongles, you know, on their parallel port. :wink:


Oh God, I remember HASP dongles.

Not favourably, of course...


I'm installing some software right now that needs a USB HASP for licensing. The USB dongle isn't even the worst, it's the install that takes hours.
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:47 pm

Pic of hardware locks for the new players.
The parallel ones actually go back to early 90s. White ones are Rainbow Technologies locks...another of the names from back then. As I recall, these were originally plugged into the back of a 486DX50 running DOS 3.3.

Why I still have them in a bin at work is a whole other issue....my personal museum of odd stuff I guess. And yeah, I still have the 5.25" floppies for some of that software too.

Image
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:20 pm

just brew it! wrote:
I suspect we'll start to see similar issues with flagship capacity HDDs in a few years, once the helium has had a chance to leak out.

Perhaps. I've been assured that they should run for 7+ years even at high altitude without problems.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:50 pm

Glorious wrote:
I'm not any sort of OS zealot, much less a UX one, and I always find it really weird when people get all worked up about the relatively trivial matter of what platform they prefer---Oh, that's nice. You have a choice? :wink:

Ah but that's the point. If you want to make your product available to ~50% of the North American mobile audience, you don't get a choice. You *have* to have a Mac.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:56 pm

videobits wrote:
Pic of hardware locks for the new players.
The parallel ones actually go back to early 90s. White ones are Rainbow Technologies locks...another of the names from back then. As I recall, these were originally plugged into the back of a 486DX50 running DOS 3.3.

Why I still have them in a bin at work is a whole other issue....my personal museum of odd stuff I guess. And yeah, I still have the 5.25" floppies for some of that software too.



I loath those hasp keys. Only place I've seen them is to protect software whose only purpose is to run $100k+ scientific equipment. What good is it to pirate the software that I can't use without the machine? University pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a machine and yearly service contract at 5-10% the cost of the machine and they get all stingy with the software to run the thing.
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:59 pm

spiketheaardvark wrote:
I loath those hasp keys. Only place I've seen them is to protect software whose only purpose is to run $100k+ scientific equipment. What good is it to pirate the software that I can't use without the machine? University pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a machine and yearly service contract at 5-10% the cost of the machine and they get all stingy with the software to run the thing.


Probably to deter people who'd balk at paying four to five figures to upgrade to a newer version of the software and would go the yo-ho-ho route instead. Scientific instrument s/w is insanely expensive even without a support contract.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:08 pm

derfunkenstein wrote:
Ah but that's the point. If you want to make your product available to ~50% of the North American mobile audience, you don't get a choice. You *have* to have a Mac.


Yup.

That was exactly what I was getting at (maybe unsuccessfully): I typically don't have any sort of choice in regards to platform, which is why I think it's so weird that people obsess over the trivialities between them.

I use what the situation demands, just as you do. "Choice" almost never factors into it.

This isn't just professionally, but personally: Games? Well, that's Windows. Or when Crashplan dumped their consumer accounts, backblaze doesn't have a linux client, so here I am on Crashplan business now. And so forth.
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:09 pm

Glorious wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
The Mac is literally a hardware dongle for iOS build support. I have Xcode installed because I need the CLI tools (which I don't directly use because Visual Studio scripts the build process), the iOS Simulator for iOS testing, and Application Loader to interface with iTunes Connect. Everything else either comes directly from Microsoft or has a Windows equivalent.


heh.

Some of the aforementioned PCs on my desk are only there because they have literal hardware license dongles, you know, on their parallel port. :wink:

I'm not any sort of OS zealot, much less a UX one, and I always find it really weird when people get all worked up about the relatively trivial matter of what platform they prefer---Oh, that's nice. You have a choice? :wink:
Yeah, no choice. I have a Dionex IC system licensed by a USB dongle in WinXP. A second OI Analytical TOC analyzer runs Windows CE from an SD card and the app that processes the data via network runs only in WinXP. Longer ago, I had two chromelean cards that could be run in a single PC by stacking the dongles on the parallel port running in Windows 3.11 and later on windows in OS/2 (ran smoother than just using windows which was not up to running two of the boards on the same PC).
bthylafh wrote:
spiketheaardvark wrote:
I loath those hasp keys. Only place I've seen them is to protect software whose only purpose is to run $100k+ scientific equipment. What good is it to pirate the software that I can't use without the machine? University pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a machine and yearly service contract at 5-10% the cost of the machine and they get all stingy with the software to run the thing.


Probably to deter people who'd balk at paying four to five figures to upgrade to a newer version of the software and would go the yo-ho-ho route instead. Scientific instrument s/w is insanely expensive even without a support contract.
Yes to the insanely expensive part.
Last edited by Mr Bill on Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:11 pm

Mr Bill wrote:
Yeah, no choice. I have a Dionex IC system licensed by a USB dongle in WinXP. A second OI Analytical TOC analyzer runs Windows CE from an SD card and the app that processes the data via network runs only in WinXP. Longer ago, I had two chromelean cards that could be run in a single PC by stacking the dongles on the parallel port running in Windows 3.11 and later on windows in OS/2 (ran smoother than just using windows which was not up to running two of the boards on the same PC).


We have a chem lab for steel (etc...) sample spectography: we just upgraded a machine/instrument to Windows XP this year!
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:22 pm

Glorious wrote:
Mr Bill wrote:
Yeah, no choice. I have a Dionex IC system licensed by a USB dongle in WinXP. A second OI Analytical TOC analyzer runs Windows CE from an SD card and the app that processes the data via network runs only in WinXP. Longer ago, I had two chromelean cards that could be run in a single PC by stacking the dongles on the parallel port running in Windows 3.11 and later on windows in OS/2 (ran smoother than just using windows which was not up to running two of the boards on the same PC).


We have a chem lab for steel (etc...) sample spectography: we just upgraded a machine/instrument to Windows XP this year!

Good Grief. :o
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:26 pm

Just wondering, but is there anyone still using CP/M on i8080/Z80 machines in 2017? Apple II systems with a Z80 card counts as well.
 
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:29 pm

Glorious wrote:
Yup.

That was exactly what I was getting at (maybe unsuccessfully): I typically don't have any sort of choice in regards to platform, which is why I think it's so weird that people obsess over the trivialities between them.

Ah ok so now we’re on the same page. And I agree. It’s a “task” to do whether it’s deveopment, backups, or gaming and you should use the best tool for the job.
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Re: Obsolete IT in the wild

Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:59 pm

Glorious wrote:
We have a chem lab for steel (etc...) sample spectography: we just upgraded a machine/instrument to Windows XP this year!


Out of curiosity, is that a newly-developed upgrade, or has it actually taken that long for the certifications and approvals to trickle through?
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