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captaintrav
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:55 am

Hawkwing74 wrote:
tanker27 wrote:
Hey Hawking it could be worse, you could be working in sweatsh......err....Agile Development! Welcome to my world.
They are talking about bringing AGILE here. They hired some big shot to look at that. We are an extremely controlled environment so I don't know what they are smoking here. If they instead cut the fluff paperwork that is meaningless, productivity could increase.

No one reads this crap unless there is a paperwork audit. It often adds no value to quality or anything else.


Not to derail, but Microsoft has gotten involved in drinking the Kool-Aid here too with Windows 10 in the Enterprise. Trying to have a stable managed desktop environment when what amount to major(ish?) OS Upgrades every 6 months is going to be a lot more work than it was in the past when you have critical applications that tend to be fussy at the best of times and you are at the mercy of the vendor when they might release a new version that works on your new OS. The LTSB branch initially sounded interesting until Microsoft basically said it isn't supported for general purpose computing, but basically for ATMs, kiosks and such. Being on CBB only helps from the standpoint that we have some lead time, we still have to deal with the same amount of OS upgrades. It wouldn't be so bad if the updates were minor, but at the rate they're changing/adding features and deprecating others, its not the case. Fall Creators Update is a no-go for us until possibly the end of the year according to one software vendor, and by then we're only a few months from the next Windows 10 build. I would have far preferred if Microsoft marked every second spring update as CBB, but it doesn't appear that skipping forward every n builds is going to be a thing.
 
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:59 am

captaintrav wrote:
Fall Creators Update is a no-go for us until possibly the end of the year according to one software vendor, and by then we're only a few months from the next Windows 10 build. I would have far preferred if Microsoft marked every second spring update as CBB, but it doesn't appear that skipping forward every n builds is going to be a thing.

What about Windows 10 Enterprise? Did they introduce the extra SKU above Pro with intention of addressing this problem?
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:30 pm

IMO the net effect of constant OS upgrades is going to be to push more applications towards Cloud-based solutions that run in a web browser. That may very well even be their intention, given the increased focus on Cloud services. Even if the OS is changing out from under you every few months, the web browser should be a (relatively) stable client environment.

Re Agile... I've seen places where it was used as an excuse to do no long range planning, and put off critical architectural decisions until it was too late. It is very difficult to make the pieces of a large distributed system work together when the system architecture and communication protocols being used between the various pieces are getting completely redesigned every couple of weeks, right up until the scheduled delivery date. While I'll admit that's an extreme example of Agile gone really horribly wrong, it's a situation I've experienced first hand.
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captaintrav
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:32 pm

ludi wrote:
captaintrav wrote:
Fall Creators Update is a no-go for us until possibly the end of the year according to one software vendor, and by then we're only a few months from the next Windows 10 build. I would have far preferred if Microsoft marked every second spring update as CBB, but it doesn't appear that skipping forward every n builds is going to be a thing.

What about Windows 10 Enterprise? Did they introduce the extra SKU above Pro with intention of addressing this problem?


Enterprise adds some features above Pro, and that's about it. The servicing branches are all the same. With Configuration Manager you can defer the deployment of updates, but are still only allowed to defer the updates for a finite period in the case of your monthly security updates, etc which is more aggressive than before (although we're generally okay on those ones unless something is majorly broken where we've skipped a month until another vendor updates their stuff as need be). On the other hand, Windows 10 Enterprise build 1709, for example, is not going to be supported any longer than Joe Blow running Windows 10 Pro 1709. That said, we at least will have at least a year? or more to test apps before jumping say from 1607 to 1703 or whatever the current support cycle is. We're just going to be at least a build or two behind - The constant churn is going to be interesting.
Last edited by captaintrav on Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
captaintrav
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:36 pm

just brew it! wrote:
IMO the net effect of constant OS upgrades is going to be to push more applications towards Cloud-based solutions that run in a web browser. That may very well even be their intention, given the increased focus on Cloud services. Even if the OS is changing out from under you every few months, the web browser should be a (relatively) stable client environment.


Yes, and (thankfully?) IE11 is sticking around in Windows 10 for the foreseeable future. A couple of our biggest Enterprise apps are web based Oracle stuff, and they are not agile (heh) when it comes to supporting new browsers. October's CU for Windows broke one app somewhat in Internet Explorer, but Oracle has a patch coming soon. I believe they support other browsers too now, but Edge/Firefox/Chrome is no doubt more of a moving target.
 
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:12 pm

just brew it! wrote:
When I worked at a defense contractor I used to (anonymously) post the especially relevant ones on the door of the fridge in the break area. It was really scary how spot-on some of them were, but Adams supposedly got a lot of the ideas for the Dilbert strips from real-life reader submissions, so it should not come as a complete surprise.

I'm pretty sure one of my co-workers -- the one who actually had a Dilbert calendar at his desk, and a (mostly) undeserved reputation for having a bad attitude -- got blamed for the drive-by Dilbert fridge strips.
The rest of the staff was finding them too funny, so I was ordered to quit posting them on the door to my office back in the day.
ludi wrote:
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Sometimes I've been the only person on the team who has the background of an engineer. When I spoke up about it once I was told "Don't tell me what's not possible. Tell me what you need to get the job done."

That's usually around the time where the engineer replies "Very well, then I need a $100k budget increase and five unicorn hooves pickled in the tears of our customers," which usually results in reduce engineering input to future projects. And possibly a formal reprimand.
I was doing metals analysis and was asked to opine if it was possible to handle 100 samples a day 7-days a week for three months without any instrument down time. First I said it was not possible. When asked to propose how to make it possible (I was working alone) I suggested buying two more instruments and staffing at two more instrument operators and three sample prep techs. This was the equivalent of unicorn hoofs for our boss and he decided not to proceed.
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:40 pm

just brew it! wrote:
IMO the net effect of constant OS upgrades is going to be to push more applications towards Cloud-based solutions that run in a web browser. That may very well even be their intention, given the increased focus on Cloud services. Even if the OS is changing out from under you every few months, the web browser should be a (relatively) stable client environment.


The issue is which platform is more stable? I would say given the anarchic chaos that is HTML standards development and support over the last 10 years that OS - in particular Windows - is more stable. Way more stable and feature rich. Of course, it's quite possible to support every Windows since XP (even Mac OS and Linux) and web browser for even technically complex software but it requires a certain level of software development competence and developer maturity. My single codebase works on all OS platforms and web browsers.

It's been many years since I've worked in a crunch situation where I have had to come in on weekends or work late hours. Those situations are unfortunately not uncommon and have their root in bad management and weak software leadership. Chasing the latest API or third party framework as if it might provide some sort of salvation to a terminal project.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:41 pm

Pancake wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
IMO the net effect of constant OS upgrades is going to be to push more applications towards Cloud-based solutions that run in a web browser. That may very well even be their intention, given the increased focus on Cloud services. Even if the OS is changing out from under you every few months, the web browser should be a (relatively) stable client environment.

The issue is which platform is more stable? I would say given the anarchic chaos that is HTML standards development and support over the last 10 years that OS - in particular Windows - is more stable. Way more stable and feature rich. Of course, it's quite possible to support every Windows since XP (even Mac OS and Linux) and web browser for even technically complex software but it requires a certain level of software development competence and developer maturity. My single codebase works on all OS platforms and web browsers.

For applications which require optimal performance and/or low latency, I agree. But the vast majority of business applications require neither -- in general they require a minimal feature set, and the heavy lifting (if any) is done server-side.

Pancake wrote:
It's been many years since I've worked in a crunch situation where I have had to come in on weekends or work late hours. Those situations are unfortunately not uncommon and have their root in bad management and weak software leadership. Chasing the latest API or third party framework as if it might provide some sort of salvation to a terminal project.

Preaching to the choir here. I've seen it and lived it. Though in the case of the dysfunctional project I described a few posts back, that was not the cause of its downfall. That was just a case of poor management/planning, plus denial on the part of those in charge that we were well and truly hosed.
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Pancake
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:18 am

just brew it! wrote:
Pancake wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
IMO the net effect of constant OS upgrades is going to be to push more applications towards Cloud-based solutions that run in a web browser. That may very well even be their intention, given the increased focus on Cloud services. Even if the OS is changing out from under you every few months, the web browser should be a (relatively) stable client environment.

The issue is which platform is more stable? I would say given the anarchic chaos that is HTML standards development and support over the last 10 years that OS - in particular Windows - is more stable. Way more stable and feature rich. Of course, it's quite possible to support every Windows since XP (even Mac OS and Linux) and web browser for even technically complex software but it requires a certain level of software development competence and developer maturity. My single codebase works on all OS platforms and web browsers.

For applications which require optimal performance and/or low latency, I agree. But the vast majority of business applications require neither -- in general they require a minimal feature set, and the heavy lifting (if any) is done server-side.

I was more referring to the short-lived unstable nature of web APIs which tend to be poorly designed, their constant deprecation and the fiddly inconsistencies in behaviour between web browsers (which changes all the time). And as icing on the cake - JavaScript. A rubbish language which you then use to glue all these weird misfit APIs together to construct an application. As someone with nearly 30 years in the software industry (first job Z80 assembly language) I've never experienced anything quite as uniquely rubbish as web development. Web development is the new Visual Basic only worse because there are multiple runtimes (web browsers) to support although about the same proportion of mediocre hacks you have to work with.
 
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:12 am

Hawkwing74 wrote:
Just a rant thread about work.

I'm sure others have difficult bosses as well.

1) QA defects - our VP got in a swivet that QA defects cost more money than if they are caught by unit testing! Every year, they try to reduce how many QA defects we can have. It's now down to 1 *ONE* per developer per year. So you don't have to be perfect, just almost perfect.

2) Old code issues - I support code which may be 16+ years old. A piece of code was buried 5 layers down from 2003. We promoted a change. When a new client went live, this code got hit. Because this client's data was slightly different in one particular field, their service would time out every time.

It was not found by dev. It was not found by QA. It was not found by regression/performance testing.
It could NOT be found by any of these because the database in question had c.10,000 records in QA environments and c.100,000,000 records in Production. Due to the larger count, the timeout issue happened in Production.

Issue was triaged and fixed. I told my boss the code was from 2003 and why it was not found by anyone. He told me "Old code is not an acceptable answer."

3) Ex Post Facto rules - a change to a program went live this weekend. My Director told me "Why did you add a data field to service ABC? We have a rule that we never add to that." We added things to it in every year before this one. The "rule" will be published soon but previously only existed in the ether.


I wonder how many people went "OMG you have a QA team!?" or "OMG you have a test environment!?"

I do agree that your test environment needs a test DB 1,000 times bigger...
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:21 am

Pancake wrote:
I was more referring to the short-lived unstable nature of web APIs which tend to be poorly designed, their constant deprecation and the fiddly inconsistencies in behaviour between web browsers (which changes all the time). And as icing on the cake - JavaScript. A rubbish language which you then use to glue all these weird misfit APIs together to construct an application. As someone with nearly 30 years in the software industry (first job Z80 assembly language) I've never experienced anything quite as uniquely rubbish as web development. Web development is the new Visual Basic only worse because there are multiple runtimes (web browsers) to support although about the same proportion of mediocre hacks you have to work with.

Sounds like we've been in the industry about the same length of time. Did a little Z-80 assembler at a summer job I had while in college, and quite a bit of it on my own time as well. :wink:

Yes, the constant web API churn is ridiculous. Web developers always want to create and/or play with the latest shiny thing, it seems. And where JavaScript is the "Visual Basic of the web browser", I'd say PHP is its equivalent on the server side. I've dealt with some truly horrific PHP code; when all it takes to create a server back end is a copy of "PHP and MySQL For Dummies" and a cheap VPS, you get a lot of web applications written by people who have no clue about software design.
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:10 am

just brew it! wrote:
Yes, the constant web API churn is ridiculous. Web developers always want to create and/or play with the latest shiny thing, it seems. And where JavaScript is the "Visual Basic of the web browser", I'd say PHP is its equivalent on the server side. I've dealt with some truly horrific PHP code; when all it takes to create a server back end is a copy of "PHP and MySQL For Dummies" and a cheap VPS, you get a lot of web applications written by people who have no clue about software design.

Users are just as bad. Worse, even. We get RFPs all the time where many of the questions are purely technical and a lot of times I don't see how it matters. The people writing those RPFs have been burned in the past in a very specific way (old ASPX pages with IE-specific JavaScript hacks that only work on IE, for example) and want to make sure it doesn't happen again. So they go way out the other direction and put "pure HTML5 front end" in the RFP. After implementation they complain because IE11 is so slow running JavaScript. :lol:
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:29 am

For more real life development crazyness: dailywtf.com
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:43 am

Aranarth wrote:
For more real life development crazyness: dailywtf.com


The WTF here is forgetting "the" in "thedailywtf.com".
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:33 pm

captaintrav wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
IMO the net effect of constant OS upgrades is going to be to push more applications towards Cloud-based solutions that run in a web browser. That may very well even be their intention, given the increased focus on Cloud services. Even if the OS is changing out from under you every few months, the web browser should be a (relatively) stable client environment.


Yes, and (thankfully?) IE11 is sticking around in Windows 10 for the foreseeable future. A couple of our biggest Enterprise apps are web based Oracle stuff, and they are not agile (heh) when it comes to supporting new browsers. October's CU for Windows broke one app somewhat in Internet Explorer, but Oracle has a patch coming soon. I believe they support other browsers too now, but Edge/Firefox/Chrome is no doubt more of a moving target.


Quick question, is IE11 only for Enterprise? I tried installing at home (to debug a work issue) and Windows 10 complained that IE11 wasn't compatible... (sorry to fork the thread)
 
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:17 pm

druidcent wrote:
captaintrav wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
IMO the net effect of constant OS upgrades is going to be to push more applications towards Cloud-based solutions that run in a web browser. That may very well even be their intention, given the increased focus on Cloud services. Even if the OS is changing out from under you every few months, the web browser should be a (relatively) stable client environment.


Yes, and (thankfully?) IE11 is sticking around in Windows 10 for the foreseeable future. A couple of our biggest Enterprise apps are web based Oracle stuff, and they are not agile (heh) when it comes to supporting new browsers. October's CU for Windows broke one app somewhat in Internet Explorer, but Oracle has a patch coming soon. I believe they support other browsers too now, but Edge/Firefox/Chrome is no doubt more of a moving target.


Quick question, is IE11 only for Enterprise? I tried installing at home (to debug a work issue) and Windows 10 complained that IE11 wasn't compatible... (sorry to fork the thread)


Possibly. I do know that IE11 is installed with Enterprise, and I don't recall seeing it on standard Windows 10. Unsure of Pro.
 
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:30 pm

It is only enterprise and must be enabled along side Edge.
 
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:39 pm

Hmmm...if they physically removed the hated telemetry code in Enterprise edition and then sold it retail as Ultimate ala W7, I might actually be tempted to get it.
 
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:44 pm

AGILE/SCRUM have big overhead IMO, not really suited to small teams, and good luck having managers who embrace the flexible aspects of it like adjusting the work into the time available. In my experience, it usually still becomes a system of hard dates and up front requirements. The principles are OK in theory, but in practise only companies with plenty of resource to burn will be true to the principles

It's funny how internal projects always get squeezed into your every day work, as if they aren't actually a project in their own right and you get expected to just make it happen. I have very little respect for managers, yet to meet any who are truly constructive to the process. I'm sure there are a few out there though.
 
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Re: Crazy Manangement Styles

Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:04 pm

blitzy wrote:
It's funny how internal projects always get squeezed into your every day work, as if they aren't actually a project in their own right and you get expected to just make it happen. I have very little respect for managers, yet to meet any who are truly constructive to the process. I'm sure there are a few out there though.

A couple of jobs back, we referred to those as "pop-up tasks". There were a lot of weeks when I would spend ALL of my time on pop-up tasks. Management would gripe about how we were always missing our deadlines. :roll:

Then there was the project which included both hardware and software development, where we did not get functional hardware until after the complete system was supposed to have been delivered. Fun times...
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