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Topinio
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:12 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Omnivore fits real perfectly as that is what we really are. Since the birth of "Humans". both modern and archaic, we eaten anything that what was available and edible, or what could be made edible by primitive forms of "food processing" such as cutting, pounding, and cooking.

Yes, most of us. The words for the others' diets (kosher, paleo, vegan, pescaterian) are the ones that define difference, and help people adjust and get along (except the argumentative types!) ...
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:05 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Topinio wrote:
Has that ever happened IRL?
Real life experience.
Seriously, I've had vegans try to convince me that something tasted like meat. Most of those dining experiences were unpleasant.

Chipotle Black Bean Burger patties are flavorful and tasty enough that I have purchased them several times, but they do not taste like beef.

My sister and the denizens of her house try to pull that crap, too. They don't remember what meat tastes like. The texture is wrong, the flavor is wrong, and everything about dishes made with fake meats are just wrong.

They also like it when I grill because I'll make veggie burgers, and "something about the way (I) grill them" is just better. Don't tell them that it's because I don't scrape down the grill from the meatburgers before I slap on their Bocas.
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:02 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
...Don't tell them that it's because I don't scrape down the grill from the meatburgers before I slap on their Bocas.


Well, of course you wouldn't scrape them. The fats and oils ARE the flavor carriers.

Now, when I cook chili for a big group, if there are known vegans/vegetarians, I will cook two pots; one with and the smaller without. Luckily I have two crock pots, and making two is almost as easy as making one. But the meat-free almost never gets eaten much, even by the ones for whom I've cooked it. One time, not a single soul even tried the vegetarian chili. I've had it; it's delicious. I'll take it home so that it won't go to waste, but it's still disappointing to go to the trouble and have no interest.
 
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:52 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Omnivore fits real perfectly as that is what we really are. Since the birth of "Humans". both modern and archaic, we eaten anything that what was available and edible, or what could be made edible by primitive forms of "food processing" such as cutting, pounding, and cooking.

Don't forget fermenting -- that's been around since the first cave-dwelling proto-human ate some over-ripe fruit, and discovered that they liked the results! :D
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:05 pm

BIF wrote:
Now, when I cook chili for a big group, if there are known vegans/vegetarians, I will cook two pots; one with and the smaller without. Luckily I have two crock pots, and making two is almost as easy as making one. But the meat-free almost never gets eaten much, even by the ones for whom I've cooked it. One time, not a single soul even tried the vegetarian chili. I've had it; it's delicious. I'll take it home so that it won't go to waste, but it's still disappointing to go to the trouble and have no interest.

That's reasonable. I like vegetarian soups, chili included, but I just like the meat-carrying variety so much better. :lol:
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:17 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
BIF wrote:
Now, when I cook chili for a big group, if there are known vegans/vegetarians, I will cook two pots; one with and the smaller without. Luckily I have two crock pots, and making two is almost as easy as making one. But the meat-free almost never gets eaten much, even by the ones for whom I've cooked it. One time, not a single soul even tried the vegetarian chili. I've had it; it's delicious. I'll take it home so that it won't go to waste, but it's still disappointing to go to the trouble and have no interest.

That's reasonable. I like vegetarian soups, chili included, but I just like the meat-carrying variety so much better. :lol:

Seems to me that chili is one of those foods where tofu or seitan (concentrated wheat gluten) could reasonably act as a "meat substitute", since the focus is really on the sauce/seasonings.

Speaking of seitan, IME it has a texture much closer to that of meat than faux meat soy products. I suppose you don't hear as much about it due to the current anti-gluten craze.

Edit: I've had this stuff, and it's pretty good. The product description makes me laugh though. A product that bills itself as "vegetarian roast duck" (an oxymoron to begin with), and also claims to have "authentic taste and texture" is, as I noted before, just setting people up to be disappointed. How are we supposed to interpret that? It tastes and feels like authentic fake meat? :lol: The fake duck skin texture they mold into the pieces is also about as convincing as the rib shapes and grill lines on McD's McRib patties. But all that aside, it's tasty (great in stir fry!), and a good source of non-animal protein (provided you're not gluten-intolerant); but nobody in their right mind with functioning taste buds would mistake it for anything resembling actual roast duck. If you don't feel like springing for a whole 6-pack, Asian markets frequently stock it as single cans (likely for cheaper than the Amazon price too).

This variety is good too (and does not make any attempt to pretend it is meat).

Edit 2: Mmm... McRib. Possibly my favorite processed mass-produced fast food chain menu item (yes, low bar here). Aside from the occasional breakfast sandwich, it's the only reason to go to McDs. :lol:
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whm1974
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:41 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Omnivore fits real perfectly as that is what we really are. Since the birth of "Humans". both modern and archaic, we eaten anything that what was available and edible, or what could be made edible by primitive forms of "food processing" such as cutting, pounding, and cooking.

Don't forget fermenting -- that's been around since the first cave-dwelling proto-human ate some over-ripe fruit, and discovered that they liked the results! :D

Oh yes indeed, how could I forget fermenting? And I do greatly prefer fermented soy sauce over that mass produced crap.
 
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:58 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Oh yes indeed, how could I forget fermenting? And I do greatly prefer fermented soy sauce over that mass produced crap.

Kikkoman is fermented on a mass-produced scale (two large production facilities in the US), so those are not mutually exclusive descriptors. :wink:

When I was a kid they started producing a significant percentage of their product her in the US (Wisconsin), since it was rather inefficient to ship US-grown soybeans and wheat to Japan to make soy sauce, then ship the finished product back again to meet US demand. While it probably went unnoticed by the public at large, having an iconic brand like that move a substantial amount of their production here was pretty big news in the Japanese-American community.

And yes, unfermented "faux soy sauce" sucks. Might as well just splash some salted water and caramel coloring on your food.
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:48 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Might as well just splash some salted water and caramel coloring on your food.
Nasty exhibit A for ruining a steak: http://www.dalesseasoning.com/
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:46 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Might as well just splash some salted water and caramel coloring on your food.

Nasty exhibit A for ruining a steak: http://www.dalesseasoning.com/

Apparently contains "fake" soy sauce, so not surprised. If you look at a soy sauce package and see "hydrolyzed soy protein" listed as an ingredient, run away -- that's not the naturally fermented stuff.

Actually, I wouldn't marinate a steak in soy sauce (fake *or* real) regardless. Even the real stuff will ruin a steak. If you're trying to turn a cheaper cut of beef into teriyaki beef, then yeah, go for it... but please use the real stuff.
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whm1974
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:52 pm

just brew it! wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Might as well just splash some salted water and caramel coloring on your food.

Nasty exhibit A for ruining a steak: http://www.dalesseasoning.com/

Apparently contains "fake" soy sauce, so not surprised. If you look at a soy sauce package and see "hydrolyzed soy protein" listed as an ingredient, run away -- that's not the naturally fermented stuff.

Actually, I wouldn't marinate a steak in soy sauce (fake *or* real) regardless. Even the real stuff will ruin a steak. If you're trying to turn a cheaper cut of beef into teriyaki beef, then yeah, go for it... but please use the real stuff.

I sometimes cook steak with soy sauce.
 
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:00 pm

whm1974 wrote:
I sometimes cook steak with soy sauce.

If you're doing that to a decent cut of beef, it is tantamount to sacrilege. If you don't like the flavor of a good steak to the point where you feel a need to cover it up with sauce, why not just buy something cheaper? Buy a chuck roast and do Asian-style pot roast or something.
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:46 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
I sometimes cook steak with soy sauce.

If you're doing that to a decent cut of beef, it is tantamount to sacrilege. If you don't like the flavor of a good steak to the point where you feel a need to cover it up with sauce, why not just buy something cheaper? Buy a chuck roast and do Asian-style pot roast or something.

Actually I haven't had steak in a while. The time I did I went to nice upscale restaurant for my birthday about three or fours ago and had a Filet Mignon. Funny thing is, I don't recall putting any sauce on it and just ate it with salt and pepper.
 
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:54 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Actually I haven't had steak in a while. The time I did I went to nice upscale restaurant for my birthday about three or fours ago and had a Filet Mignon. Funny thing is, I don't recall putting any sauce on it and just ate it with salt and pepper.

As it should be!
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:10 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Actually I haven't had steak in a while. The time I did I went to nice upscale restaurant for my birthday about three or fours ago and had a Filet Mignon. Funny thing is, I don't recall putting any sauce on it and just ate it with salt and pepper.

As it should be!

While I sometimes I do put steak or more often Worcestershire sauce on steaks, I have never in my life ever put tomato ketchup on it and or that matter any kind of meat roast. I even sneer at those who do.
 
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:47 pm

whm1974 wrote:
While I sometimes I do put steak or more often Worcestershire sauce on steaks, I have never in my life ever put tomato ketchup on it and or that matter any kind of meat roast. I even sneer at those who do.

Application of mass-produced ketchup improves tasteless fast food fries and dry, over-cooked burgers. IOW, it's a Band Aid you can use to patch up damaged food. That's my use case for the stuff.

Occasionally you'll run across a restaurant that makes their own ketchup fresh, in house. Those can be more interesting, since they typically have other flavors besides just tomato, HFCS, and vinegar (the primary ingredients in the mass-produced stuff).
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:22 am

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
While I sometimes I do put steak or more often Worcestershire sauce on steaks, I have never in my life ever put tomato ketchup on it and or that matter any kind of meat roast. I even sneer at those who do.

Application of mass-produced ketchup improves tasteless fast food fries and dry, over-cooked burgers. IOW, it's a Band Aid you can use to patch up damaged food. That's my use case for the stuff.

Occasionally you'll run across a restaurant that makes their own ketchup fresh, in house. Those can be more interesting, since they typically have other flavors besides just tomato, HFCS, and vinegar (the primary ingredients in the mass-produced stuff).

I don't know about you, but I often find the mass produce tomato ketchup to be way too sweet and I don't even put it ketchup half the time anymore.

If I ever run across some mushroom ketchup and it is at least halfway decent, I'll buy a bunch of it.
 
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:33 am

whm1974 wrote:
I don't know about you, but I often find the mass produce tomato ketchup to be way too sweet and I don't even put it ketchup half the time anymore.

Well, that's what people expect. Heinz isn't the market leader for no reason. And it's cheap to make it sweet, with HFCS.

whm1974 wrote:
If I ever run across some mushroom ketchup and it is at least halfway decent, I'll buy a bunch of it.

I thought you were going to try making your own?
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:41 am

I'll do a brief marinade in just about anything. Beer, wine, Worchestershire, soy sauce, teriaki, mustard, pepper, paprika, Weber's magic dust stuff, hot pepper seeds, you name it.

Or all of the above.

The thing is, a brief marinade will give flavor to the outside of a thick steak, although it does tend to snuff out some of the coals if it drips too much. And with it getting all steamy and boily inside the grill, it imparts a wonderful flavor to anything and everything else I cook that day. It can even soak into corn on the cob still wearing it's coat of shuckings.

But I tend to buy thicker steaks, so there's still some unmarinaded meat inside there.

Oh, and marinade is wonderful on burgers, turkey legs, and even salmon.

Oh sure, I'll cook a steak without anything but pepper, but a creative marinade won't destroy a steak. A good steak just can't be kept down that easily. 8)
 
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:53 am

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
I don't know about you, but I often find the mass produce tomato ketchup to be way too sweet and I don't even put it ketchup half the time anymore.

Well, that's what people expect. Heinz isn't the market leader for no reason. And it's cheap to make it sweet, with HFCS.

whm1974 wrote:
If I ever run across some mushroom ketchup and it is at least halfway decent, I'll buy a bunch of it.

I thought you were going to try making your own?

I thought about it some more and decided that I'll just buy a bottle or two to see if I like it first before trying to make a batch of it.
 
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:52 am

I don't care where my meat comes from as long as it's free of parasites/diseases and tastes good.

Some of the genuine meat on sale today is barely fit for tinned dog food. I'd eat lab-grown meat without an issue, especially since a large portion of other stuff we consume is artificial anyway.

The key for me is flavour and texture. Wheat, soy and mycoprotein derivatives taste and feel wrong. That's all there is to it.
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:57 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
The key for me is flavour and texture. Wheat, soy and mycoprotein derivatives taste and feel wrong. That's all there is to it.

IME the wheat gluten stuff (seitan) probably comes closest to the texture of real meat. Nobody would mistake the flavor for real meat though.
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Re: Tofurky and other faux meats.

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:24 pm

just brew it! wrote:
It really annoys me how much regular grocery chains mark up tofu. At the Asian markets around here it's like a buck and a quarter for a block of it. At the big chain stores, you're lucky if you can find it for double that price. I guess they figure (correctly, it would seem) that a lot of people perceive it as some sort of exotic specialty item, and price it accordingly.


I was just noticing that. The stuff is appearing everywhere again.

Costco had a really tasty chicken & veggie stuffed dumpling that steams in a microwave tray. I nearly bought one until I noticed "tofu" was one of the top ingredients, combined with the price they wanted for it I passed. These actually, "Taste of Korea" indeed

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