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OK I go to mental help group every Tuesday and today we broke up into smaller groups with me "starting" a group on beginning computer users with two people taking intro to computers classes.

There were five of us in the group with me "leading" as the rest of group basically barely knew computers. Three of us were doing most of the talking with the last two trying to understand what we was talking about.

One older lady ended up falling asleep...

If I knew I was going help others learn about computers today I would have brought my laptop in with beginners stuff already prepared in advance...

Are you sure you were starting at a basic enough level? If it all sounds like techno-babble I could imagine it being hard for a novice to stay awake.

The beginning classes I've seen are mind bogglingly simple stuff. Like how to click things.

Also for some reason when people get in front of a computer things get weird. If a box pops up and only said, "click ok" with a button that said okay, people will still ask for confirmation on what they're supposed to do.

just brew it! wrote:

Are you sure you were starting at a basic enough level? If it all sounds like techno-babble I could imagine it being hard for a novice to stay awake.

Yeah this sort of thing along with people's eyes glazing over while talking was fairly common enough during the late 90's and early 2000's that I had to put in considerable effort to prevent causing this. And since I've using computers since I was 9 years old and Im fairly geeky and technical that I struggle with explaining the most basic concepts to folks who know zilch.

I don't talk about tech stuff with non-techie people. There's plenty of other stuff to talk about and you can always find something in common with someone else. Common interests (even if theirs far outstrips yours) make for much more interesting conversations. I can get my geek on online.

It's to the point I don't even talk about technical points with my wife beyond telling her to check for a software update on her phone. Work related stuff rarely gets beyond the domain level, even if that. "I'm happy that fixed a bug" or "my app can now do this" are generally all the detail anybody ever wants. "My PC won't power-on/boot/run a specific app because this is broken/has gone bad/needs upgraded" is about as far as we get.

edit: just got this in some sort of corporate blast email: "if you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough." I don't think that's always true, and I don't think it's the case here, but it's an interesting way to make you check your own knowledge.

derFunkenstein wrote:

I don't talk about tech stuff with non-techie people. There's plenty of other stuff to talk about and you can always find something in common with someone else. Common interests (even if theirs far outstrips yours) make for much more interesting conversations. I can get my geek on online.

It's to the point I don't even talk about technical points with my wife beyond telling her to check for a software update on her phone. Work related stuff rarely gets beyond the domain level, even if that. "I'm happy that fixed a bug" or "my app can now do this" are generally all the detail anybody ever wants. "My PC won't power-on/boot/run a specific app because this is broken/has gone bad/needs upgraded" is about as far as we get.

edit: just got this in some sort of corporate blast email: "if you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough." I don't think that's always true, and I don't think it's the case here, but it's an interesting way to make you check your own knowledge.

I had to explain computer stuff to folks who don't even know the most basic concepts when they do ask me questions.

derFunkenstein wrote:

edit: just got this in some sort of corporate blast email: "if you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough." I don't think that's always true, and I don't think it's the case here, but it's an interesting way to make you check your own knowledge.

I found that I really struggle with those who never used a computer before to explain simple questions people have asked me and I don't have a computer in front of me to show them what I'm talking about.

Other folks falling asleep when talking about a subject that does not interest them.

whm1974 wrote:

derFunkenstein wrote:

edit: just got this in some sort of corporate blast email: "if you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough." I don't think that's always true, and I don't think it's the case here, but it's an interesting way to make you check your own knowledge.

I found that I really struggle with those who never used a computer before to explain simple questions people have asked me and I don't have a computer in front of me to show them what I'm talking about.

I'm not as bad as "Nick Burns" but i do often have to tell my family members to "MOVE" when I lose patience trying to help them through the occasional PC hang ups. I know, I know, I should be a better teacher...

G8torbyte wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

derFunkenstein wrote:

edit: just got this in some sort of corporate blast email: "if you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough." I don't think that's always true, and I don't think it's the case here, but it's an interesting way to make you check your own knowledge.

I found that I really struggle with those who never used a computer before to explain simple questions people have asked me and I don't have a computer in front of me to show them what I'm talking about.

I'm not as bad as "Nick Burns" but i do often have to tell my family members to "MOVE" when I lose patience trying to help them through the occasional PC hang ups. I know, I know, I should be a better teacher...

I have to tell them to "Let me sit in the chair and and watch me show you how you do this". Much nicer...

G8torbyte wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

derFunkenstein wrote:

edit: just got this in some sort of corporate blast email: "if you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough." I don't think that's always true, and I don't think it's the case here, but it's an interesting way to make you check your own knowledge.

I found that I really struggle with those who never used a computer before to explain simple questions people have asked me and I don't have a computer in front of me to show them what I'm talking about.

I'm not as bad as "Nick Burns" but i do often have to tell my family members to "MOVE" when I lose patience trying to help them through the occasional PC hang ups. I know, I know, I should be a better teacher...

TIL I'm Nick Burns when helping my father with computer issues.

A great way to teach is create interest. Here is a tool I successfully used to teach many otherwise uninterested people many rudiments of computers.
Back when "Printshop Deluxe" version 10 was around, i found than people were interested enough in making custom (their name on it) cards, custom holiday invites, and for sale signs to learn a few things about computers. The latest windows I can force it on is win7 32 bit and I saved an old rig to still use it..
The idea is bring a laptop as you said and a quick printer. Have them create and print custom birthday cards for friends and relatives or other personal projects. They'll be knocking you out of the way to do their project. Ha ha.
If there is a more modern similar application, I don't know of it. It allowed Headlines, text boxes, cartoons, shaped pictures, edited pictures, and all could be moved all over easily.
If anyone has suggestions for a current program like it, please advise.

Hope this helps - education is a wonderful thing to watch happen.

Jim

You obviously provided some mental help to the elderly lady. She wouldn't have fallen asleep if she had been anxious or worried.

xgsound wrote:

A great way to teach is create interest. Here is a tool I successfully used to teach many otherwise uninterested people many rudiments of computers.
Back when "Printshop Deluxe" version 10 was around, i found than people were interested enough in making custom (their name on it) cards, custom holiday invites, and for sale signs to learn a few things about computers. The latest windows I can force it on is win7 32 bit and I saved an old rig to still use it..
The idea is bring a laptop as you said and a quick printer. Have them create and print custom birthday cards for friends and relatives or other personal projects. They'll be knocking you out of the way to do their project. Ha ha.
If there is a more modern similar application, I don't know of it. It allowed Headlines, text boxes, cartoons, shaped pictures, edited pictures, and all could be moved all over easily.
If anyone has suggestions for a current program like it, please advise.

Hope this helps - education is a wonderful thing to watch happen.

Jim

Good idea. I try to find other useful programs that people will want to learn.

Wirko wrote:

You obviously provided some mental help to the elderly lady. She wouldn't have fallen asleep if she had been anxious or worried.

To be fair, maybe she didn't get enough sleep the night before. Been there done that.

You probably mentioned Linux. Never mention Linux.

Kretschmer wrote:

You probably mentioned Linux. Never mention Linux.

Lick my feet clean. And yes I'm using this as an sneaky way to promote Linux. as well

Kretschmer wrote:

You probably mentioned Linux. Never mention Linux.

whm1974 wrote:

Yes, I'm using this as an annoying way to promote Linux. as well

https://plenteousveg.com/how-to-tell-pe ... are-vegan/

Unless you're also willing to go to their homes to install Linux for them gratis, and provide free tech support in perpetuity (since their grand-nephew who "knows computers" will just ask them why they didn't buy a new Windows 10 PC), you're not doing them any favors.

just brew it! wrote:

Unless you're also willing to go to their homes to install Linux for them gratis, and provide free tech support in perpetuity (since their grand-nephew who "knows computers" will just ask them why they didn't buy a new Windows 10 PC), you're not doing them any favors.

At this stage I just was using both Linux and Windows as examples. And IIRC I even mentioned MacOS.

derFunkenstein wrote:

I don't talk about tech stuff with non-techie people. There's plenty of other stuff to talk about and you can always find something in common with someone else.

Years ago, one of my mentors asked: "What does it mean to be a chemical engineer? It means that when you're around other engineers, you can talk chemistry and when you're around chemists, you can talk engineering. For everyone else, talk about the weather."

JustAnEngineer wrote:

derFunkenstein wrote:

I don't talk about tech stuff with non-techie people. There's plenty of other stuff to talk about and you can always find something in common with someone else.

I don't remember whether it was Dr. John P. O'Connell or Dr. Spyros Svoronos that asked: "What does it mean to be a chemical engineer? It means that when you're around other engineers, you can talk chemistry and when you're around chemists, you can talk engineering. For everyone else, talk about the weather."

It seems that issues with folks falling asleep or having their eyes glaze over doesn't only happen to computer geeks. It is a general problem and a common experience for all types of techies in every field.

It is. If you are getting asked questions (and you are), that's one thing. You can only deal with what you're asked, and if someone has gone to you for help that's a good thing because they respect your opinion.

But try making a point of it to talk about other stuff. Look for common ground.

whm1974 wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

Unless you're also willing to go to their homes to install Linux for them gratis, and provide free tech support in perpetuity (since their grand-nephew who "knows computers" will just ask them why they didn't buy a new Windows 10 PC), you're not doing them any favors.

At this stage I just was using both Linux and Windows as examples. And IIRC I even mentioned MacOS.

OK, that seems reasonable. (Depending on how it was presented, of course.)

just brew it! wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

Unless you're also willing to go to their homes to install Linux for them gratis, and provide free tech support in perpetuity (since their grand-nephew who "knows computers" will just ask them why they didn't buy a new Windows 10 PC), you're not doing them any favors.

At this stage I just was using both Linux and Windows as examples. And IIRC I even mentioned MacOS.

OK, that seems reasonable. (Depending on how it was presented, of course.)

I did inform them that I have a hard time explaining computers to those who don't use them and that I use Linux and haven't Windows used for three years now, but I will help as much as I can given that we didn't have a computer in front of us to use. I had to think a bit to remember what drive letters were.

Back earlier this year when the groups had a computer room for the clients to use(now an office) I was talking to another client about computers and he was shocked to discover that you are not limited to just Windows and MacOS after I told him I was using Linux only. He also ended up with a funny look on his face after I mention that I've been building my computers since 2000.

I find it a bit strange to find out that people are not aware that you can build your own rigs if desired.

whm1974 wrote:

Back earlier this year when the groups had a computer room for the clients to use(now an office) I was talking to another client about computers and he was shocked to discover that you are not limited to just Windows and MacOS after I told him I was using Linux only. He also ended up with a funny look on his face after I mention that I've been building my computers since 2000.

I find it a bit strange to find out that people are not aware that you can build your own rigs if desired.

People who hang out on this forum are not representative of the general public.

Most users access the internet through their phone; maybe they also have a laptop (or, less likely these days, a desktop). At work the IT person handed them a laptop the day they started, or brought a desktop system to their desk and hooked it up for them. On a day-to-day basis, they probably don't do anything more technical than plugging a thumbdrive into a USB port.

Years ago when my oldest daughter was in college, her DVD drive died. The next time she was home from school I handed her a spare and told her to call if she had any questions about how to install it (she didn't). Apparently her roommate freaked out when she swapped the drive though. She says the conversation went something like:

"WTF are you doing? You can't take that apart, you'll break it or electrocute yourself!"

"Don't worry, I've got this."

just brew it! wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

Back earlier this year when the groups had a computer room for the clients to use(now an office) I was talking to another client about computers and he was shocked to discover that you are not limited to just Windows and MacOS after I told him I was using Linux only. He also ended up with a funny look on his face after I mention that I've been building my computers since 2000.

I find it a bit strange to find out that people are not aware that you can build your own rigs if desired.

People who hang out on this forum are not representative of the general public.

Most users access the internet through their phone; maybe they also have a laptop (or, less likely these days, a desktop). At work the IT person handed them a laptop the day they started, or brought a desktop system to their desk and hooked it up for them. On a day-to-day basis, they probably don't do anything more technical than plugging a thumbdrive into a USB port.

Years ago when my oldest daughter was in college, her DVD drive died. The next time she was home from school I handed her a spare and told her to call if she had any questions about how to install it (she didn't). Apparently her roommate freaked out when she swapped the drive though. She says the conversation went something like:

"WTF are you doing? You can't take that apart, you'll break it or electrocute yourself!"

"Don't worry, I've got this."

That is only true if your daughter was working on the PSU, and that wouldn't even apply if she has the knowledge and tools required to safely to work on them. I don't and I'm well aware that PSUs are basically "black boxes" and not meant for end users to open and work on in the first place.

Edit: I have gotten into heated arguments with "expert" PC builders about that last bit. I make it a habit of warning people when they ask questions me questions on how to build computers about opening up and working on PSUs. Folks have died doing that. That is why I warn first.

I'd like to see your basis for the "people have died doing that." I'm not saying it is impossible to die poking around in a computer PSU that is disconnected from the AC mains. I'm just saying it's highly unlikely many, if any have ever died this way.

farmpuma wrote:

I'd like to see your basis for the "people have died doing that." I'm not saying it is impossible to die poking around in a computer PSU that is disconnected from the AC mains. I'm just saying it's highly unlikely many, if any have ever died this way.

The last time I heard about that was a few years ago when some teenager open up a PSU to get a fan out. It was on Yahoo News IIRC.

whm1974 wrote:

Yahoo News

Fake news!