Personal computing discussed

Moderators: Captain Ned, emkubed

 
Duct Tape Dude
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 12:37 pm

Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:37 pm

2018 likely has a new car in store for me. I see all these active driving aids I'm interested in like:

Front radars/cameras:
  • Lane keep assist (or the lesser Lane Departure Warning)
  • Smart cruise control
  • Automatic emergency braking

Rear radars:
  • Blind spot monitoring
  • Lane change assist
  • Rear cross traffic alert

I've test driven a few cars recently (Elantra, Civic, Impreza, Niro) but I've found test drives tend to be too short for thoroughly vetting the tech.

So gerbils, anyone have any experience with Eyesight/Honda Sensing/TSS-P/etc. from any manufacturers? How is it? What works well? Is anything so annoying that you turn it off?

Thanks!
 
UberGerbil
Grand Admiral Gerbil
Posts: 10333
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:33 pm

This is actually a really good question, and not something I've seen addressed in car reviews. Maybe Consumer Reports, which tends to focus more on safety than the enthusiast car mags/sites do, will have more to say about that in the future?
 
Kougar
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2266
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:12 am
Location: Texas

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:02 pm

You already mention Blind spot monitoring. I've never seen anyone discuss the range of blind spot active monitoring though.

Say for example some crazy person is passing in the right lane and driving like it's another Fast & Furious movie, which if any of these safety options would detect that? From what I know most blind spot monitoring only handles objects already there and just outside of the box. This is my largest safety concern driving today, it's been happening quite often of late but at such high speeds that even on open roadways I still don't notice them half the time until they blaze on by.

https://mycardoeswhat.org/deeper-learning/ has some info, and a brief overview of other safety features and what they don't do, I found some of the info interesting such as different features only being active at different speeds..
 
mikewinddale
Gerbil
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:22 am

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:03 pm

I have been interested in buying a car with the EXACT same features. So I'm following this thread.

I haven't tested any cars yet, but I've been comparing prices. You should add the Mazdas with the Touring package to your list. The Touring package has every safety feature you listed. Plus, it's very affordable. The Mazda3 with the Touring package, for example, is THE cheapest car I have found with all these features.
 
ludi
Lord High Gerbil
Posts: 8107
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:47 pm
Location: Sunny Colorado front range

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:05 pm

Kougar wrote:
Say for example some crazy person is passing in the right lane and driving like it's another Fast & Furious movie, which if any of these safety options would detect that? From what I know most blind spot monitoring only handles objects already there and just outside of the box. This is my largest safety concern driving today, it's been happening quite often of late but at such high speeds that even on open roadways I still don't notice them half the time until they blaze on by.

Get out of the left lane, grandpa :P
Abacus Model 2.5 | Quad-Row FX with 256 Cherry Red Slider Beads | Applewood Frame | Water Cooling by Brita Filtration
 
Duct Tape Dude
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 12:37 pm

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:54 pm

Kougar wrote:
Say for example some crazy person is passing in the right lane and driving like it's another Fast & Furious movie, which if any of these safety options would detect that? From what I know most blind spot monitoring only handles objects already there and just outside of the box.
The guy at the Subaru dealership said that their blind spot monitoring system is based on the vehicle's incoming relative speed. It'll go off sooner if it detects crazy behind you vs the sneaky person slowly creeping into your blind spot. And thanks for the link. Every manufacturer has a slightly different acronym for the same thing.

UberGerbil wrote:
This is actually a really good question, and not something I've seen addressed in car reviews. Maybe Consumer Reports, which tends to focus more on safety than the enthusiast car mags/sites do, will have more to say about that in the future?
Yeah, I've been frustrated that everyone just sort of checks off the box, like "yup, it has this feature," instead of reviewing how well it works and its nuances like what speed things engage/disengage at, how tunable they are, what they're like vs other cars, etc.

How many TR Gold subscribers will it take to expand reviews to car tech?? I want a quality review of these things.

mikewinddale wrote:
I haven't tested any cars yet, but I've been comparing prices. You should add the Mazdas with the Touring package to your list. The Touring package has every safety feature you listed. Plus, it's very affordable. The Mazda3 with the Touring package, for example, is THE cheapest car I have found with all these features.
I'll consider it for sure, though the lack of Carplay/Android Auto is disappointing.
 
Kougar
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2266
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:12 am
Location: Texas

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:15 pm

ludi wrote:
Get out of the left lane, grandpa :P


Hah, was waiting for that. :P On a five-lane interstate I drive in the second-to-rightmost lane so I don't have to dodge people merging onto the freeway, or have issues with exit ramps that are backed up onto the freeway (which is very common along the inner city loop). But cars will blitz into the slowest lane, cut around in front of me and then ping pong between all five lanes exactly like they do in the Fast & Furious movies. It's becoming so commonplace it seriously makes me wonder where all the cops went. It's even worse when I'm driving around Houston, thank god I don't have to deal with that traffic/drivers. Doesn't matter if I'm driving 80mph up the I-35 corridor, vehicles blaze by doing >90mph every few minutes.

Duct Tape Dude wrote:
The guy at the Subaru dealership said that their blind spot monitoring system is based on the vehicle's incoming relative speed. It'll go off sooner if it detects crazy behind you vs the sneaky person slowly creeping into your blind spot. And thanks for the link. Every manufacturer has a slightly different acronym for the same thing.


Ah, thanks for the info! The range on the sensors is what concerns me, I can be traveling a slow 60mph and people still move to the slow lane on my right doing 90mph. I almost sideswiped one of them once already when merging into the slow lane to make an upcoming exit, if I had rushed that lane change it would've been a nasty accident at the speed he was traveling.
 
ludi
Lord High Gerbil
Posts: 8107
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:47 pm
Location: Sunny Colorado front range

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:49 am

Kougar wrote:
It's even worse when I'm driving around Houston

Oh, in that case you don't need the blind spot warning system. The automated turret with belt-fed Hellfire missiles is the more sensible investment.
Abacus Model 2.5 | Quad-Row FX with 256 Cherry Red Slider Beads | Applewood Frame | Water Cooling by Brita Filtration
 
DPete27
Silver subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3616
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:35 pm

I own a 2017 Toyota Rav4 and a 2016 Subaru Legacy. Test drove a 2017 Honda CR-V but they couldn't match Toyota's lease pricing. Got to drive a 2017 Subaru Forester for a couple weeks with similar features. I also do a fair amount of car rental for business travel (although I don't typically get the premium models). I'll try to compare all applicable manufacturers when possible.

First off. You can disable most/all of these features on most/all cars that offer them. Many of the features have a few different sensitivity settings also.

Lane keep assist: I was really impressed by the 2017 Honda CR-V (I assume this is present on other models) that Honda's LKA actually keeps you centered in the middle of the lane. It's as close to self-driving as I've experienced (when paired with adaptive cruise control) and it was AWESOME. Toyota's is more like bumper bowling. I have used it on long drives in my Rav4 because my dog freaks out if I run on the rumple strip (which is sometimes only 6" outside of the solid white line). It's helpful as a safety feature, but I'd certainly consider Honda's implementation to be closer to "self-driving". Honda's tech requires you to touch the steering wheel every 10-15 seconds (rep wouldn't let me see what happens if you dont put your hands back on the wheel). Toyota's tech gets more and more exaggerated swerving the more times it bumps you in since it's only preventing you from hitting the white line.

Lane Departure Warning: Pointless. I always turn that off. Pointless and annoying.

Smart cruise control: Depends on what following distances the manufacturer decides to program. I'd say Subaru and Honda are good. I'm not as satisfied about it on my Rav4 because even the shortest following distance is enough space for other drivers to comfortably pull between you and the car you're following (which then slows you down again until the follow distance is achieved). It's nice so you don't have to constantly cancel/resume cruise control, but interstate speeds were increased from 65 to 70mph in my state almost 2 years ago, yet most semis are still governed to 65mph and I've had multiple instances where I didn't realize my Rav 4 had slowed to follow a 65mph truck instead of naturally passing him otherwise. Subaru's smart cruise control felt much more natural in that regard.
***Honda's smart cruise control will take you all the way to 0mph, which IIRC is an industry leader.

Emergency braking: This feature is something you shouldn't really ever experience. I think my Subaru salesman said it best when he was describing their training where all(?) sales people had to go to their course and drive 30-40mph(?) at the brick wall and not step on the brakes. Assuming you're aware of the situation (which typically you'd be stepping on the brakes) by the time the emergency braking kicks in, your body is tensing up for a collision. Much over 35-40mph(?) it's not going to prevent an accident, but it will reduce the impact speed. I think it's a good feature to have.

Blind spot monitoring/rear cross traffic alert: Have it on both our personal vehicles. It's come in handy a few times, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say it's prevented any collisions. This feature is pretty standard on modern vehicles, so it'll probably be included by default.

One other feature I liked on Honda is the car's ability to hold the brakes for you (not sure what they named it). Picture coming to a stop (at sign/light/traffic jam) and you can let of the brake pedal, but the car doesn't start rolling forward until you hit the gas.

Interesting story: I had an inside hookup to get some seat time in a brand new Maybach (Mercedes's premium brand) back in 2006 or 2007 and that car actually had all the features discussed above except for lane keep assist. The guy was telling me about what Mercedes was looking into as far as self-driving tech even back then.
Last edited by DPete27 on Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2550
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:38 pm

My only complaint about these safety additions is how they are marketed. "Oh, you would have just murdered that kid. Let's just laugh it off because the car didn't let you! Continue not paying attention!"
Desktop: Z170A Gaming Pro Carbon | 6700K @ 4.4 | 16 GB | GTX Titan Xm | XSPC RX360 | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 2048 + 240 + LSI 9207-8i (128x8) SSD
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS
 
Captain Ned
Gold subscriber
Global Moderator
Posts: 27386
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:49 pm

Waco wrote:
My only complaint about these safety additions is how they are marketed. "Oh, you would have just murdered that kid. Let's just laugh it off because the car didn't let you! Continue not paying attention!"

Which is why the only "active safety" device I really want is a FLIR-driven HUD for night driving (too many road critters here in VT). If they could work out a way to drive the entire windshield with said HUD, I'd be ecstatic.
Humans sleep soundly in their beds because rough cats stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
 
End User
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:11 pm

Manual transmission
NA engine
"Belly floppin' lockin' while I'm rockin' in the bubble bath"
 
tanker27
Gerbil Khan
Posts: 9165
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:15 pm

End User wrote:
Manual transmission
NA engine


+1

even though its been (sadly) decades since I've driven a Manual.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(''')(''')
Watch out for evil Terra-Tron; He Does not like you!
 
End User
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:19 pm

Passive Safety:

SNOW TIRES!!!

BRUSH THE SNOW/ICE OFF THE ROOF OF YOUR CAR/SUV/TRUCK YOU FOOLISH FOOLS!!!
"Belly floppin' lockin' while I'm rockin' in the bubble bath"
 
UberGerbil
Grand Admiral Gerbil
Posts: 10333
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:35 pm

DPete27 wrote:
Lane keep assist: I was really impressed by the 2017 Honda CR-V (I assume this is present on other models) that Honda's LKA actually keeps you centered in the middle of the lane. It's as close to self-driving as I've experienced (when paired with adaptive cruise control) and it was AWESOME. Toyota's is more like bumper bowling.

LOL
DPete27 wrote:
One other feature I liked on Honda is the car's ability to hold the brakes for you (not sure what they named it). Picture coming to a stop (at sign/light/traffic jam) and you can let of the brake pedal, but the car doesn't start rolling forward until you hit the gas.

I assume it is actually doing this by holding the brakes, ie the brake lights are on? I ask because while I'm pretty conscientious about always keeping my foot on the brake at an intersection, there have been a couple of times where I've seen someone coming up in the rear-view mirror and I've pumped my brakes to flash the lights because I wasn't sure if they saw me or were planning on stopping. Just sitting there without the brake lights on may be a little too inconspicuous for the folks who are only popping their head up to scan briefly while texting or whatever the heck they're doing instead of actively piloting their vehicle.
End User wrote:
Manual transmission
NA engine
I still have those, but my get-off-my-lawn flashpoint in new cars is freakin' touchscreens. They're fine for tertiary inputs, but I want to be able to adjust the climate controls and do basic things with the sound system (skip tracks, change radio stations, adjust the volume) by feel. With my hands. Without looking. I can't feel a pixel, dumbasses. I really feel like we're in the awkward CFL-bulb moment between incandescents and LEDs: we're going to have voice control of all of that stuff soon, but right now they've made everything digital without making it safer or better.
 
derFunkenstein
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 24714
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:38 pm

UberGerbil wrote:
I still have those, but my get-off-my-lawn flashpoint in new cars is freakin' touchscreens. They're fine for tertiary inputs, but I want to be able to adjust the climate controls and do basic things with the sound system (skip tracks, change radio stations, adjust the volume) by feel. With my hands. Without looking. I can't feel a pixel, dumbasses. I really feel like we're in the awkward CFL-bulb moment between incandescents and LEDs: we're going to have voice control of all of that stuff soon, but right now they've made everything digital without making it safer or better.

Every time I get in a newer vehicle, a touch screen is the first thing I check. If it's there, I make mental note that I just don't want that vehicle. I can't figure out who thought this was a good idea.

End User wrote:
Passive Safety:

SNOW TIRES!!!

BRUSH THE SNOW/ICE OFF THE ROOF OF YOUR CAR/SUV/TRUCK YOU FOOLISH FOOLS!!!

I truly hate getting stuck behind a truck that's blowing f***ing snow everywhere. And in my area, stuff melts and refreezes, so it becomes a very dangerous block of ice that could really truly do damage or hurt someone.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
Dieter
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:51 am

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:50 pm

Rear cross traffic works surprisingly well, and I'd recommend it. It's not perfect, but it can often "see" better than you can when backing out of a space. Don't rely on it, of course, but it's nice to have.

My vehicle only has forward collision warning (not automatic braking), and I'm actually pretty happy about that. I don't know if the automatic systems are good, but mine does do quite a few false alerts (though I do have it set on the highest sensitivity), especially if I'm behind a grey car, or sometimes when going around a bend on a street with parked cars. If it had automatic braking, it might slam the brakes for no reason, which would be bad.

I also only have lane departure warning (not keeping), but it's pretty good about not doing false alerts. I like it, and it doesn't beep if you're using your blinker when changing lanes.

Blind spot monitoring is another nice to have, but not incredibly useful. I use it as a second check when checking blind spots.

I don't have smart cruise but rarely use cruise anyway (people in the US have no sense of lane speeds, so it's not like you can just get in the left lane and go).

Someone else said FLIR, and that would be awesome. However, one thing not on your list that I definitely recommend is a HUD. Projected on the windshield, not a little plastic/glass reflector on the dash. I didn't care when I bought my car, but now that I have it, it's one of my favorite features. You don't have to change your focus as much when checking your speed, and your eyes are still mostly looking at the road instead of the dash. They're fortunately becoming more popular now, and I'll probably make sure all my future cars have it.

Also, good headlights. For 2018 apparently good headlights are becoming a requirement to get a good safety rating (I forget from which institute), but I *hate* it when I get in a car with crappy headlights (which includes just about every Ford I've ever been in). It's amazing how much difference they make, and I don't feel safe driving without good headlights. The technology doesn't matter (LED, HID, halogen), so don't worry about technology and just try them out at night.

Finally, a really good backup camera AND audible alerts (sonar). I think cameras might be mandated now, but there's a huge difference in quality, and having the active lines on the screen and a good camera help. Since most modern cars have high beltlines/rear shelves, you can't see anything behind them. The sonar is nice because sometimes you don't quite see something, especially if the screen is small (like ones built into rearview mirrors).
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2550
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:53 pm

End User wrote:
Manual transmission
NA engine

I agreed on the former, but turbos are fun. :P
Desktop: Z170A Gaming Pro Carbon | 6700K @ 4.4 | 16 GB | GTX Titan Xm | XSPC RX360 | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 2048 + 240 + LSI 9207-8i (128x8) SSD
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS
 
cphite
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:28 am

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:57 pm

Duct Tape Dude wrote:
2018 likely has a new car in store for me. I see all these active driving aids I'm interested in like:

Front radars/cameras:
[*]Lane keep assist (or the lesser Lane Departure Warning)


Haven't used active keep lane assist, but we do have lane departure warning... and my opinion on that is that it's not only useless, but annoying. We turned this off very soon after buying the car... The main underlying problem is that it reads things that aren't lanes as lanes... tar line on the road? That's a lane. Harsh shadow from the car next to you? That's a lane. Lines in the intersection as you're turning? Opps, you just left a lane. Even dirt on the side of the road can be a lane.

[*]Smart cruise control


This is my favorite of all of these sorts of features. Get on the highway, set it to whatever speed you like. Traffic slows down or stops, the system automatically does the same. When it speeds up again, so do you. It sounds almost trivial but it's absolutely wonderful on long trips.

[*]Automatic emergency braking


Only had this work once, and it was a false alarm. Was pulling into the garage - admittedly faster than might have been advisable - and it decided to activate. Lotsa beeping and braking, frown of disapproval from the wife... but at least we know that it works.

But in general, yeah, I am in favor of the car stopping before it hits something.

Rear radars:
[*]Blind spot monitoring


Useful. I am still really careful to check my sides when changing lanes, but this is a nice to have. Plus, my wife is... less careful than I'd like her to be when changing lanes, so it's definitely a nice to have when she's behind the wheel :D

One minor annoyance is that it almost always beeps if you're at an intersection with multiple turn lane... for example, you're turning left and there is another left-turn lane to your left. It sees the car behind you (also turning left) and assumes that you're cutting them off. Not a big deal.

[*]Lane change assist


I consider this to be the same as the blind spot assist...

[*]Rear cross traffic alert


Useful, especially in parking lots where you're trying to back out and can't see past the van that's next to you... Ours is kinda weird sometimes, for example it's gone off for a pedestrian on the sidewalk on the other side of the street - so no reason to warn - but failed to go off for an oncoming car. This is my one concern with these kinds of features; that they're not completely reliable.

I've test driven a few cars recently (Elantra, Civic, Impreza, Niro) but I've found test drives tend to be too short for thoroughly vetting the tech.


Well, basically, once you've narrowed down to the car you want, tell the dealership you want a longer test drive. Even if they give you crap about it initially, most dealerships aren't going to pass on a sale just to avoid spending some extra time on the road with you. If they won't accommodate you, go to another dealer.

So gerbils, anyone have any experience with Eyesight/Honda Sensing/TSS-P/etc. from any manufacturers? How is it? What works well? Is anything so annoying that you turn it off?


Ours is Mazda, but I've driven a Honda that was basically the same. I really can't say which are better or worse.

My biggest thing is that I consider them a tool, not a catch-all. I still look before I back out, change lanes, or whatever; and it irritates me when other people don't.
 
End User
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:19 pm

My 2012 GLI has traction control which cannot be disabled. It is maddening. I'm ordering a new summer car later this month and I'm overjoyed by the fact I will be able to turn off every nannying feature.
"Belly floppin' lockin' while I'm rockin' in the bubble bath"
 
End User
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:23 pm

Dieter wrote:
so it's not like you can just get in the left lane and go

An audible alert to get the frack out of the passing lane would be awesome!
"Belly floppin' lockin' while I'm rockin' in the bubble bath"
 
Kougar
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2266
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:12 am
Location: Texas

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:49 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
I truly hate getting stuck behind a truck that's blowing f***ing snow everywhere. And in my area, stuff melts and refreezes, so it becomes a very dangerous block of ice that could really truly do damage or hurt someone.


That reminds me... when south Texas got two inches of snow in Nov, someone built a 4" snowman on the one of those open wood-slat flatbed trailers. Said trailer was attached to a large pickup driving 55mph along I-35 with the frozen snowman (which must have refroze into solid ice to have remained intact) still riding along on his trailer. I was just waiting for the head to fly off when he hit a bump and smash someone's windshield.
 
Cuhulin
Gold subscriber
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:52 pm
Location: Meridian, Idaho

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:23 pm

ludi wrote:
Kougar wrote:
Say for example some crazy person is passing in the right lane and driving like it's another Fast & Furious movie, which if any of these safety options would detect that? From what I know most blind spot monitoring only handles objects already there and just outside of the box. This is my largest safety concern driving today, it's been happening quite often of late but at such high speeds that even on open roadways I still don't notice them half the time until they blaze on by.

Get out of the left lane, grandpa :P


LOL!

Naw! just get off my lawn (err, road)! I paid for the damn thing! Ought to raise the driving age to 50 anyway - there would be less traffic. :D
For Work: Corsair One Pro, i7-7700, 16GB, GTX 1080, Samsung 49KS8000 and 2xAsus 27" 4K, 2 x Sonos Play 5

For Play: Ryzen 5, MSI B350M, 8GB, Radeon 580 and building....
 
liquidsquid
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 10:49 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:51 pm

Tried it all, found it to be annoying and distracting. Especially lane warning features. Like a big digital diaper. I will instead rely on my own skills to drive. If I screw up, the blame is all on me. Only thing I wound up getting is a good console stereo with connectivity galore. Hands-free phone and plenty of media access. New Outback 2018. Family wagon but need the good AWD on the driveway.

Of course I would be happy with a stick shift so I can really drive the car myself, but seem I cannot get one on a Subaru as they are mostly not gear boxes any more, instead CVTs with fake shift stages. I do like the car though, a lot. Beats the crap out of the old 2008 6cyl Outback with 160K miles and a laundry list of failing expensive stuff.
 
strangerguy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 8:46 am

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:26 pm

I want to use a 100% self-driving work vehicle so I can fully absolve myself when the inevitable accident happens.

I'm not a bad driver, just getting more and more sick of driving.
8700K 4.3GHz @ 1.05V | Cryorig H7 | MSI Z370M AC | 32GB Corsair LPX DDR4-3200 | GTX 1070 @ 0.8V | 500GB Evo 850 | 1TB M550 | 3TB Toshiba | Seasonic G650 | Acer XB271HU
 
End User
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:36 am

Kougar wrote:
ludi wrote:
Get out of the left lane, grandpa :P


Hah, was waiting for that. :P On a five-lane interstate I drive in the second-to-rightmost lane so I don't have to dodge people merging onto the freeway, or have issues with exit ramps that are backed up onto the freeway (which is very common along the inner city loop). But cars will blitz into the slowest lane, cut around in front of me and then ping pong between all five lanes exactly like they do in the Fast & Furious movies.

The blame lies solely with those blocking the passing lanes. The cops should be pulling over anyone who is dawdling in the passing lanes. Drive in Europe to see how it is done. Absolutely amazing.
"Belly floppin' lockin' while I'm rockin' in the bubble bath"
 
End User
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:40 am

strangerguy wrote:
I want to use a 100% self-driving work vehicle so I can fully absolve myself when the inevitable accident happens.

I'm not a bad driver, just getting more and more sick of driving.

I love driving but I am all for an autonomous electric ride share that whisks me to and from work.
"Belly floppin' lockin' while I'm rockin' in the bubble bath"
 
Duct Tape Dude
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 12:37 pm

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:44 am

Thank you all so much for your replies! Quite helpful!

DPete27 wrote:
Lane keep assist: I was really impressed by the 2017 Honda CR-V (I assume this is present on other models) that Honda's LKA actually keeps you centered in the middle of the lane. ... Toyota's is more like bumper bowling. ...

Lane Departure Warning: Pointless. I always turn that off. Pointless and annoying.

Smart cruise control: Depends on what following distances the manufacturer decides to program. I'd say Subaru and Honda are good.
***Honda's smart cruise control will take you all the way to 0mph, which IIRC is an industry leader.

Emergency braking: This feature is something you shouldn't really ever experience. I think my Subaru salesman said it best when he was describing their training where all(?) sales people had to go to their course and drive 30-40mph(?) at the brick wall and not step on the brakes. Assuming you're aware of the situation (which typically you'd be stepping on the brakes) by the time the emergency braking kicks in, your body is tensing up for a collision. Much over 35-40mph(?) it's not going to prevent an accident, but it will reduce the impact speed. I think it's a good feature to have.

Blind spot monitoring/rear cross traffic alert: Have it on both our personal vehicles. It's come in handy a few times, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say it's prevented any collisions. This feature is pretty standard on modern vehicles, so it'll probably be included by default.

One other feature I liked on Honda is the car's ability to hold the brakes for you (not sure what they named it). Picture coming to a stop (at sign/light/traffic jam) and you can let of the brake pedal, but the car doesn't start rolling forward until you hit the gas.
...
THANK YOU so much for the detailed writeup among manufacturers. Since reading your bit on LKAS, I've found the tuning is quite important. Honda indeed appears to use lane-centering more than other companies, which I believe should be somehow noted in reviews. I've found a few YouTube videos of different manufacturers' LKAS implementations and it seems like Honda's is the most refined.

For SCC, I've seen Hyundai also goes to 0, and after 3 seconds it disengages until you hit "resume" and then you start moving again. This is important to me.

BSM/RCTA: Unfortunately the Civic doesn't have rear radars otherwise I'd be all over it. At the moment I'm pretty torn on whether it's worthwhile to forego these radars and get the Civic anyway.

Re: brake holding, I think I've seen this called "Hill start assist" or "incline assist." I know the Elantra I drove on in San Francisco had it, it was insanely handy.

Captain Ned wrote:
Which is why the only "active safety" device I really want is a FLIR-driven HUD for night driving (too many road critters here in VT). If they could work out a way to drive the entire windshield with said HUD, I'd be ecstatic.
I think Doug DeMuro's AMG wagon almost has that, sans windshield "HUD" (would it even be a HUD anymore or just the most useful OLED screen ever?): https://youtu.be/-62Dr1JgAh4?t=10m20s

End User wrote:
My 2012 GLI has traction control which cannot be disabled. It is maddening. I'm ordering a new summer car later this month and I'm overjoyed by the fact I will be able to turn off every nannying feature.
+1 The first thing I look for inside new cars is the traction control button. My dad owns a Prius without the option to disable it, and it's infuriating to drive (or really, stall) in snow when you know what you're doing.

liquidsquid wrote:
Tried it all, found it to be annoying and distracting. Especially lane warning features.
Seems to be the consensus. I absolutely don't want LDW, it has to be LKAS or nothing.

End User wrote:
strangerguy wrote:
I want to use a 100% self-driving work vehicle so I can fully absolve myself when the inevitable accident happens.

I'm not a bad driver, just getting more and more sick of driving.

I love driving but I am all for an autonomous electric ride share that whisks me to and from work.
That's definitely going to be the new thing for the 2020s. Looking forward to it, assuming regulations keep pace.


---

I've since broadened my search to include the Sonata and Accord, which is a whole new can of worms because they're a different class of car. So at the moment it's down to the following:
Civic: I'm not sure I can get over the lack of blind spot monitoring and volume knob.
Elantra: Seems great though the Civic/Accord probably drive better.
Sonata: Bigger but surprisingly cheaperish with all the active driving aids.
Impreza: The average MPGs on fuelly.com is disheartening for such an underpowered car.
Accord (2018): Expensive, bigger.
Niro: Great form factor but expensive.
Last edited by Duct Tape Dude on Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
End User
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:49 am

DPete27 wrote:
Lane Departure Warning: Pointless. I always turn that off. Pointless and annoying.

I actually like this one for long boring drives.
"Belly floppin' lockin' while I'm rockin' in the bubble bath"
 
End User
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Active Safety in Cars: What's good?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:34 pm

Duct Tape Dude wrote:
Civic: I'm not sure I can get over the lack of blind spot monitoring and volume knob.

Blind spots on a Civic should not be too much of a problem. I'm looking at buying a 2SS 1LE - now that thing needs a blind spot monitor.

Photos of the 2018 Civic interior appear to show there is a volume control on the steering wheel. Is that not good enough?

The Civic is my choice from your list.
"Belly floppin' lockin' while I'm rockin' in the bubble bath"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests