Personal computing discussed

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CScottG
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So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:39 pm

Creepy, but cool! 8)


(..and only about 50 years after being written in SciFi books for this purpose.. I think, though those were general-purpose health nano-bots.)


https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/12/res ... mors-mice/
 
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:47 pm

I've been reading sci-fi for about 45 years now and the vast majority of it has been warnings to me saying "don't do that". I know it's coming and that the species will someday "transmigrate" with bio-computing extensions; I just won't be one of them.

Won't ever hop on a transporter (should certain physical laws be abrogated) either. I don't care what designer colors may be available, my lawn will be green and free from intruders.

"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind" is a good starting point.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:48 pm

Yeah, pretty nifty stuff. I wonder though how quick the initial diagnosis needs to be before this kind of treatment would be effective. Having a chunk of dead, necrotic tissue inside you often has the same bad results.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:25 pm

Bring it on dude. I'll be a guinea pig. I'm mostly speaking more broadly than this particular article, but it's still cool too.

(A lot of this comes from the fact that my eyes are total crap and the problem can't be solved by "conventional" means. Therefore, I can at least feel a semblance of what someone with much larger issues might feel with a far more serious disability or disease.)
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CScottG
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:37 pm

-yeah I might as well, but I'd have to be in pretty bad shape to be a "beta tester". :lol:
 
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:37 pm

Redocbew wrote:
Yeah, pretty nifty stuff. I wonder though how quick the initial diagnosis needs to be before this kind of treatment would be effective. Having a chunk of dead, necrotic tissue inside you often has the same bad results.

Eh? The body processes countless cell deaths every day. The "chunk of dead, necrotic tissue" scenario typically occurs after a bacterial invasion that overwhelms the body's ability to clean house.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:42 pm

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:56 pm

just brew it! wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sp2bJg_wqI

Whereas I think of the sci-fi of Vernor Vinge, Charles Stross, and Alastair Reynolds.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:56 pm

And then you have a different take that I saw when I was younger... still a bit to young for the Fantastic Voyage though...
But Innerspace I remember....
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:05 pm

ludi wrote:
Eh? The body processes countless cell deaths every day. The "chunk of dead, necrotic tissue" scenario typically occurs after a bacterial invasion that overwhelms the body's ability to clean house.


True, but depending on how industrious this little bio-bot is it may overwhelm the body's natural capacity. I was thinking of things like obstructed bowels which can cause a significant amount of tissue death inside the body. That's maybe not the best example since that can also let gut bacteria out on the loose, but we're basically talking about inducing gangrene here. Since this is all internal we may not be able to just ignore how the dead stuff gets expelled from the body.

I'm just speculating on how effective this kind of treatment would be on its own without some kind of conventional surgery or other treatment involved as well. It's pretty cool stuff, regardless.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:47 am

Redocbew wrote:
True, but depending on how industrious this little bio-bot is it may overwhelm the body's natural capacity. I was thinking of things like obstructed bowels which can cause a significant amount of tissue death inside the body. That's maybe not the best example since that can also let gut bacteria out on the loose, but we're basically talking about inducing gangrene here. Since this is all internal we may not be able to just ignore how the dead stuff gets expelled from the body.

The way I read it, the quantity of nanobots released would be controlled proportionate to the amount of damage that needed to be done, similar to any other drug delivery. The result was to halt the progress of the tumor or shrink it, rather than kill it all at once. Seems like that compares favorably to targeted radiation or ultrasound therapy with higher precision and fewer side effects.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:57 am

Yeah, after I posted that I was thinking there'd probably be a way to control how quickly the bots go about their business. I was also thinking that instead of being used as an alternative to radiation maybe the best use for the bots is to set them loose on a search and destroy mission for anything which may not be detectable by conventional means. Being told "You're in the clear. Come back in six months just in case." is great, but you still have to come back in six months. :P
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:00 am

The CAR T-cell treatment that has been approved by the FDA against cancer (leukemia) actually consists of engineered donor cells. You take them out, manipulate them and put them back in. This avoids all types of nasty reactions. Very dangerous but also very impressive.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:42 pm

Oh, so this isn't actual mechanical robots, just manipulated organic molecules.

This above treatment sounds positively benign by comparison to CAR T-cell treatments. As Pstant says, given the CAR T cell treatment is actual genetic engineering of donor cells, and has very serious side effects because these genetically engineered cells replicate once in your body. These organic molecular machines don't self-replicate, for starters which makes it world's safer...
 
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:49 pm

If I could transplant my brain into a cybernetic body I would.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:53 pm

End User wrote:
If I could transplant my brain into a cybernetic body I would.

Death is the most important part of the human experience.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:59 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
End User wrote:
If I could transplant my brain into a cybernetic body I would.

Death is the most important part of the human experience.

Bollocks. I’ve not had a white picket fence life. I don’t have anything to hold on to. I want to see the stars.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:02 pm

I want to be Daneel.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:08 pm

End User wrote:
I want to be Daneel.

I read into that that you care less about life extension than you do about forcing humanity down your chosen path.

Don't debate Asimov with me unless you're really ready.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:13 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
End User wrote:
I want to be Daneel.

I read into that that you care less about life extension than you do about forcing humanity down your chosen path.

Don't debate Asimov with me unless you're really ready.

Debate you?!? WTF? I need someone/thing to create a digital frontier to reshape the human condition.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:17 pm

End User wrote:
I need someone/thing to create a digital frontier to reshape the human condition.

And the track record of those wanting to "reshape the human condition" is??? I've read all of those novels and it never ends well for those who desire to remain 100% unenhanced human.

You say "reshape", I hear "bend it to my will". Sorta comes with the gray hair.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:24 pm

Are there side effects?
Will I get kidney stones instead of cancer?
 
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:24 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
I read into that that you care less about life extension than you do about forcing humanity down your chosen path.

No 3.5mm jacks! Lossy codecs for everyone!
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:01 pm

ludi wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
I read into that that you care less about life extension than you do about forcing humanity down your chosen path.

No 3.5mm jacks! Lossy codecs for everyone!

And monophonic sound, apparently.
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:28 pm

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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:50 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
End User wrote:
I need someone/thing to create a digital frontier to reshape the human condition.

And the track record of those wanting to "reshape the human condition" is??? I've read all of those novels and it never ends well for those who desire to remain 100% unenhanced human.

You say "reshape", I hear "bend it to my will". Sorta comes with the gray hair.


Gattaca (great movie) - it ended well.. but it sure was hell to get there. (..cut your legs off and put them back together just to gain a couple of inches to impersonate an enhanced human.)
 
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:08 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
End User wrote:
If I could transplant my brain into a cybernetic body I would.

Death is the most important part of the human experience.



..but does it need to be permanent? (..that's assuming of course that reincarnation doesn't occur.)


I tend to wonder at what point humanity will achieve the possibility of clinical immortality. Biotech is moving pretty damn fast, but I don't think it will happen for at least 200 years or so (..if it's possible, and I think it is).

Then it becomes a matter of: how do you get to that point in time?

https://youtu.be/B1JnmOyF7zE?t=27


-if we do achieve that (clinical immortality), will we be "human"? (..certainly after just a few centuries social structure will become quite different, assuming the technology gets to the "masses" - which is probably a big assumption.)
 
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:54 am

I, for one, would never want to be part of "the load of serene bastards".
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:18 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Death is the most important part of the human experience.


Citation needed. How do you know it isn't over rated?

I took a quick look for first hand accounts, but so far there seems to be a remarkable lack of documentation from credible witnesses...
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Re: So, are you ready to have tiny machines throughout your body?

Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:58 am

K-L-Waster wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
Death is the most important part of the human experience.


Citation needed. How do you know it isn't over rated?

I took a quick look for first hand accounts, but so far there seems to be a remarkable lack of documentation from credible witnesses...


Maybe he meant "universal" rather than "important". On the other hand, it probably is the single most important factor that shapes human life into what it is. After all, a construct's boundaries are a major part of defining it.

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