TR Forums

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspecul ... next_year/

Come November this year, prepare to drooooooooooooooooool.

But it will probably be the edited version, not the cinema one.

Besides Harmy's Despecialized Edition which is 720p (I think enough for an old film of this sort?), there's a newer 4K fan film scan called 4K77.

I'm willing to wager it'll have more edits to make it fit within the new trilogy. Just how the edits with the special editions were mainly done to make the original trilogy fit more with the prequels.

There's also the Team Negative 1 scan of a 35mm film print found in Spain.

Krogoth wrote:

I'm willing to wager it'll have more edits to make it fit within the new trilogy. Just how the edits with the special editions were mainly done to make the original trilogy fit more with the prequels.

George Lucas wanted to retell the stories of the original movies to better fit with his new direction that he wanted to take Star Wars. Disney just wants to make money. I really doubt that Disney will do the stuff that Lucas did that made the fans upset, there's just no financial incentive, just as there was no financial incentive for Lucas.

what upsets me, mainly for Jedi is that Lucas completely changed the ending!

toki wrote:

what upsets me, mainly for Jedi is that Lucas completely changed the ending!

I thought Disney just laid off all their Jedi.

I'd pay good money for even a regular 720p/1080p version of the theatrical cuts. Unfortunately, Disney purportedly promised Lucas they wouldn't ever sell a "Han shot first" version. I don't even care about that particular scene very much, it's all the disjointed CGI and airbrushing that breaks the atmosphere. OTOH, if the Evil Empire of franchise entertainment 'altered the deal' on a creative it wouldn't exactly be the first time.

At some point I'll probably have to break my moratorium on pie ratting if I ever want to see a decent version again.

I highly recommend Harmy's Despecialized Editions for those looking for the original, unedited movies in fairly good quality.

I am just glad I have them on my lovely analog RCA video discs. I do wish they were widescreen though.

I have the Collector's Edition LaserDisc set. I'm pretty sure it's widescreen.

Very interesting information...I'd heard of the Harmy cut but not 4K77 or Negative 1. A proper frame-by-frame restoration of a 35mm reel is a truly fascinating concept.

The dark irony of all of this is that Lucas himself went before Congress in the late 80s to protest the colorization of old B&W films, stating that to alter the negatives was an unconscionable assault on Western culture. Ten years later he proudly declared that he'd altered the negatives for his hyper-colorized "Special Edition" release. Needless to say I am not gonna feel an ounce of remorse if certain things get downloaded from certain communication protocols in the near future. Bootleg albums ride again!

No Thank you I'll stick with Harmy's. Well that is until Disney+ is released.

No interest in the ruined editions.

Fortunately for cultural history, the Harmy editions are well-distributed across the globe. Probably the only versions that will matter 100s of years in the future, the irony is deep indeed.

A coworker tracked down the 4K non-DNR and the 4K DNR versions of this. We previewed the DNR version this morning on a 4K Samsung 27" monitor, and I am more than pleased with the quality of this. Yes, it's a 4K scan of a "release print," meaning that is a 4th generation analog element, but there is still a ton of detail there. I would say that although there is probably less overall detail than can be seen in the Blu-ray from the Special Edition (sourced from original camera negative (OCN) scans), there is more than adequate detail, and the color timing is probably the closest one is going to see in this day and age to what was projected theatrically in the late 70s.

If I'm not mistaken, the 35mm print used for the Team Negative 1 1080p scan (a/k/a the Silver Screen Edition) is the same print rescanned for the 4K77 project.

TurtlePerson2 wrote:

Krogoth wrote:

I'm willing to wager it'll have more edits to make it fit within the new trilogy. Just how the edits with the special editions were mainly done to make the original trilogy fit more with the prequels.

George Lucas wanted to retell the stories of the original movies to better fit with his new direction that he wanted to take Star Wars. Disney just wants to make money. I really doubt that Disney will do the stuff that Lucas did that made the fans upset, there's just no financial incentive, just as there was no financial incentive for Lucas.

I believe there was some financial incentive for some changes, like Han/Greedo's shooting match, in order to avoid PG13
(the rating didn't exist in 77)

JustAnEngineer wrote:

I have the Collector's Edition LaserDisc set. I'm pretty sure it's widescreen.

As do I. in the lovely black box.
However, when I went to play it on my decent LCD HT projection screen...
1. Wow has technology moved ahead. CRT television resolution on a beast of a screen is too much crap to bear.
2. My drive started slipping in my dinosaur-aged player. Uh-oh. Its toast. Not worth fixing other than for nostalgia. I have a sizable collection of LD that I wont bother with as some are duplicates of movies, like Aliens, which are so much better as re-issued Blue Ray I was given or purchased. For less money today than they cost back in the late 90's.

So the box sits there waiting for some determined purist to offer me some cash for it.

Captain Ned wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, the 35mm print used for the Team Negative 1 1080p scan (a/k/a the Silver Screen Edition) is the same print rescanned for the 4K77 project.

That is correct, based on my reading. I'm amazed that they were able to get this done and on such a limited budget. I would love to know who (and how) they talked into lending them a 4K film scanner! I'm sure someone "knew someone in the industry," as networking, across all professions/hobbies, gets you into many doors that would otherwise remain closed. However, with the super-touchy digital police/copyright world in which we live, I can't imagine it being easy to convince someone, with access to said scanner, to allow a hobbyist or group of hobbyists, to scan in a release print of a film with such a history of big names/deep pockets behind the copyrights, etc.

liquidsquid wrote:

JustAnEngineer wrote:

I have the Collector's Edition LaserDisc set. I'm pretty sure it's widescreen.

As do I. in the lovely black box.
However, when I went to play it on my decent LCD HT projection screen...
1. Wow has technology moved ahead. CRT television resolution on a beast of a screen is too much crap to bear.
2. My drive started slipping in my dinosaur-aged player. Uh-oh. Its toast. Not worth fixing other than for nostalgia. I have a sizable collection of LD that I wont bother with as some are duplicates of movies, like Aliens, which are so much better as re-issued Blue Ray I was given or purchased. For less money today than they cost back in the late 90's.

So the box sits there waiting for some determined purist to offer me some cash for it.

Agreed on all counts. I bought my LD player when I found the Trilogy for $5 in great condition. I've acquired another 20 or so movies that I wanted from a vintage standpoint. I've tried to watch a few and wow they are dated. Especially the audio.

Pagey wrote:

That is correct, based on my reading. I'm amazed that they were able to get this done and on such a limited budget. I would love to know who (and how) they talked into lending them a 4K film scanner! I'm sure someone "knew someone in the industry," as networking, across all professions/hobbies, gets you into many doors that would otherwise remain closed. However, with the super-touchy digital police/copyright world in which we live, I can't imagine it being easy to convince someone, with access to said scanner, to allow a hobbyist or group of hobbyists, to scan in a release print of a film with such a history of big names/deep pockets behind the copyrights, etc.

I would be FAR from shocked to find that "someone in the industry" is fully appreciative and supportive of the fan-based efforts to bring the one true ANH into the modern era. My guess (and it's strictly same) is that the TN1 release wouldn't have happened without such support.

Topher Grace even did some edits to Star Wars. He only showed it to his friends apparently.

liquidsquid wrote:

My LD drive started slipping in my dinosaur-aged player. Uh-oh. Its toast. Not worth fixing other than for nostalgia.

It's a rubber drive belt. The fix is easy and cheap if you do it yourself.

Negative 1 claims that they built their own 4K scan rig with a DSLR. It has been done a lot at the hobby level, and so very plausible that someone with video production experience could make a pro grade version.

The more interesting question to me is where the 35mm came from. Last I checked those aren't like picking up Halloween candy, especially one as old and controversial as this, so if I was looking for insider involvement that's where I would start.

NovusBogus wrote:

Negative 1 claims that they built their own 4K scan rig with a DSLR. It has been done a lot at the hobby level, and so very plausible that someone with video production experience could make a pro grade version.

The more interesting question to me is where the 35mm came from. Last I checked those aren't like picking up Halloween candy, especially one as old and controversial as this, so if I was looking for insider involvement that's where I would start.

Ah, that makes sense. I hadn't read enough of the background to get that piece of info. A coworker grew up with his family running a small, local drive-in theater. Despite what every policies were in place at the time, he said it was not uncommon for release prints to remain on site, never sent back/asked for/picked up by whomever did the distribution. In fact, his dad would often do a personal "movie night" for my coworker and his friends, showing the release print of whatever they were into at the time, often long after the theatrical run of the film was over.

Regardless of how TN1 accomplished this, I remain both awed and grateful.

Guaranteed:

It will come out, the kids will love it, the purists will hate it, and your wives won't care.

I grabbed the 4k77 version and watched it. Its maybe a tad bit better than Harmy's visually. (Yes I watched it in 4K) I did find that the Dolby Sound they used was far better than Harmy's. I don't know what they sourced their audio from but it was real clear and balanced correctly. In Harmy's there's are a few trouble spots with surround sound.

NovusBogus wrote:

The more interesting question to me is where the 35mm came from. Last I checked those aren't like picking up Halloween candy, especially one as old and controversial as this, so if I was looking for insider involvement that's where I would start.

The only clue I've seen publicly disclosed is that the dialogue track on the print is in Spanish, meaning that all of the sound in TN1/4K77 has come from other sources.

Captain Ned wrote:

NovusBogus wrote:

The more interesting question to me is where the 35mm came from. Last I checked those aren't like picking up Halloween candy, especially one as old and controversial as this, so if I was looking for insider involvement that's where I would start.

The only clue I've seen publicly disclosed is that the dialogue track on the print is in Spanish, meaning that all of the sound in TN1/4K77 has come from other sources.

The MediaInfo tool from MediaArea.net shows DTS-MA, so I wonder if they used the audio from the official Blu-ray?