so, when you say "The water is already in it." in reference to the hoover dam, I'm saying no, it's not... not in this scenario, it is in one of those locations, at the davis dam, at a new damn in line with the colorado river, or at a man made lake adjacent to the river, or other, but, it's downstream, which is what I've said several times, that's where the water is, that water will get pumped up, and then flow back through the turbines.. back downstream to the lower reservoir yet again
All of the water, in any of those locations, used to be in Lake Mead.
Which you are only returning to Lake Mead.
Normally, if you don't do anything in pumped storage, that upper reservoir is completely dry.
Water doesn't start there, it isn't naturally there. Anything there was only ever there because you artificially put it there.
With Lake Mead, and your system, every ounce you put into Lake Mead was already in Lake Mead at a previous point in time. You're just putting it back, and you HAVE TO PUT BACK PRECISELY THE AMOUNT YOU LATER LET DOWN, WITHOUT FAIL.
That is an important consideration. It is a fundamental differentiation from other, "real" pumped storage systems.
All I am asking is that you consider that, and instead you regale me endless with the notion that, YES VIRGINIA, WE CAN RETURN WATER NOT-PRESENTLY IN LAKE MEAD BACK TO LAKE MEAD.
Yes, you can. I never said you couldn't.
I said that is fundamentally limited because we CANNOT change how much water comes out of Lake Mead over a 24 hour period, which directly limits your freedom of action here.
Again, normally, in "real" pumped storage the limit is the upper reservoir--it can't hold all that much.
Lake Mead, on the other hand, has essentially infinite capacity in relation to the system in present circumstances (though, in the early 80s, it had -no- capacity---again, something that is once-again fundamentally different). We're not concerned with how much we can store, we're concerned with that balance.
In other words, what I am telling you is that the fact that Lake Mead is the natural upper reservoir *SERIOUSLY* mutates the fundamental proposition of "pumped storage", and that other factors related to the situation constrain its productivity down to the trivial---if not futile outright.
I'm not interested in your self-assigned quest to demonstrate that it isn't fundamentally impossible to eek SOME benefit as a thought experiment, YES, YOU COULD.
But that DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE, and all of my illustrations, how reductionist and not perfectly accurate, were only intended to explain and draw out the appropriate conclusion that THIS IS NOT PLAUSIBLE.
So tilt at windmills all you like, but I'm not the one pretending to a be giant.
I mean, look at this:
you want to argue the future ROI, we can, but, lets get past the 'what if it was magically created now, would it be of benefit?' stage before we talk about the likely fact that we will have fixed the colorado river water allocation, that we have stopped using fossil fuels, which because of both of those, the hoover dam will likely then be running at its full *safe* potential, and yes, at that point, you'd have to add even more infrastructure for the pump station to still do its job, but, we're not there yet
I mean, do you hear yourself?
You are saying that if we fix REALITY then...
There is no then. What is the point?