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What should I write a "review" of?

Poll ended at Wed May 29, 2019 12:16 pm

Potato cannoning
4 (8%)
Cooling fan blowout
7 (13%)
Bluetooth OBD2 dongles
3 (6%)
Optane experimentation
10 (19%)
Exotic steak preparations
9 (17%)
Portable NAND grudge match
14 (27%)
Real world RX 560 performance
5 (10%)
 
Total votes: 52
 
LoneWolf15
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Re: TR Gerbil's Choice Review I - we have a winner!

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:14 am

notfred wrote:
Heat em up and freeze em, throw them in a wash cycle (left in a pants pocket), does that kill them?


"Boil `em, mash `em, stick em in a stew!" ?
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DeadOfKnight
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Re: TR Gerbil's Choice Review I - we have a winner!

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:57 am

I would have voted for Optane, but for a different reason. I've always wondered what the real world benefits of hybrid storage are, and what are the limitations. I mean, you could just get an SSD for cheap these days, which is what most of us do, but the idea of hybrid storage for your system drive is interesting.

We've used USB flash drives as a Ready Boost cache, hybrid hard drives, SSDs set up as an SRT cache, and now Optane. How much of a measurable performance gain is there? How much storage is really useful before diminishing returns? How long do they take to "learn" what needs to be accelerated?

Personally, I'll never use a hybrid solution for my system drive when cheap SSDs are available, but this would be interesting. I know it's been done before, but those tests are old. They don't go head to head on Windows 10, with bigger capacities or the latest nvme, optane, USB 3.0, or hybrid hard drives available.
Intel Core i7-5775c, Asus Maximus VII Formula, Win 10 Pro
RTX 2080 Ti FE, Corsair 2x8GB DDR3-1866, Corsair AX860
Corsair H105, WD Red 4TB x2, Creative X-Fi Titanium HD
Samsung 850 EVO 1TB, Alienware AW3418DW, Corsair 450D
 
LoneWolf15
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Re: TR Gerbil's Choice Review I - we have a winner!

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:21 pm

DeadOfKnight wrote:
I would have voted for Optane, but for a different reason. I've always wondered what the real world benefits of hybrid storage are, and what are the limitations. I mean, you could just get an SSD for cheap these days, which is what most of us do, but the idea of hybrid storage for your system drive is interesting.

We've used USB flash drives as a Ready Boost cache, hybrid hard drives, SSDs set up as an SRT cache, and now Optane. How much of a measurable performance gain is there? How much storage is really useful before diminishing returns? How long do they take to "learn" what needs to be accelerated?

Personally, I'll never use a hybrid solution for my system drive when cheap SSDs are available, but this would be interesting. I know it's been done before, but those tests are old. They don't go head to head on Windows 10, with bigger capacities or the latest nvme, optane, USB 3.0, or hybrid hard drives available.


I think Optane would be interesting, but I have a server at home, and I've already seen this question answered.

There really is a performance boost with Optane and the reviews show it. The real reason for Optane is that for data storage, platter drives are still king in the cost-per-GB range. This is why my gaming rig has a 1TB WD Black, so I'm not wasting space on my SSDs, but even moreso, why I have a storage array on my HP Proliant ML310e (a RAID-5 of 3TB Hitachi 7.2k NAS drives), and a separate RAID-10 array of 240GB MLC SSDs for the operating system. Storing a couple of terabytes of video, software ISOs, music, etc. isn't cheap to do by SSD, especially reliable, MLC SSD. 12TB of disks (9TB for storage, after the array is configured in this case) is a lot less expensive.

That's why I have a caching hardware RAID controller (HP SmartArray P420, 2GB cache). It makes all the difference in the world in speed when it comes to a modest array of hard disks. Optane works in much the same way as the cache on a RAID controller does, only it doesn't have hardware parity calculations like a RAID controller. If your desire is to speed up a large storage drive, it's a sensible way to do it. OTOH, if you don't need that kind of storage, but you need or want fast data access, better to just get some 512GB-1TB SSDs and be done with it.
i9-9900K @4.8GHz, GIGABYTE Z390 Aorus Pro WiFi, 2 x 16GB G.Skill RipJaws V PC3000
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JustAnEngineer
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Re: TR Gerbil's Choice Review I - we have a winner!

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:26 pm

LoneWolf15 wrote:
Data storage, platter drives are still king in the cost-per-GB range. This is why my gaming rig has a 1TB WD Black, so I'm not wasting space on my SSDs, but even moreso, why I have a storage array on my HP Proliant ML310e (a RAID-5 of 3TB Hitachi 7.2k NAS drives)
If you want fast, get an SSD. If you want lots of space per dollar, get large hard-drives. Your 1 WD TB Black drive seems to fall into neither of those categories. It is tiny and it is three to five times as expensive per TB as other hard-drives. $74½ for a 1.0 TB WD black hard-drive isn't a bargain. The cheapest 1.0 TB SSDs are under $90, just 20% more than your hard-drive.
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Waco
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Re: TR Gerbil's Choice Review I - we have a winner!

Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:27 pm

For large storage hardware RAID arrays are a mixed bag. The performance is generally worse than a good ZFS configuration *and* they aren't as good at keeping your bits intact.

For a few TB with some speed, there's no reason not to go SSD these days. Small HDDs are absurdly expensive per bit.

In short, what JAE said. :)
Desktop: Z170A | 6700K @ 4.4 | 32 GB | Alphacool Eisblock Radeon VII | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 1 TB NVME + 2 TB SATA + LSI (128x8) RAID 0
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DeadOfKnight
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Re: TR Gerbil's Choice Review I - we have a winner!

Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:00 am

LoneWolf15 wrote:
DeadOfKnight wrote:
I would have voted for Optane, but for a different reason. I've always wondered what the real world benefits of hybrid storage are, and what are the limitations. I mean, you could just get an SSD for cheap these days, which is what most of us do, but the idea of hybrid storage for your system drive is interesting.

We've used USB flash drives as a Ready Boost cache, hybrid hard drives, SSDs set up as an SRT cache, and now Optane. How much of a measurable performance gain is there? How much storage is really useful before diminishing returns? How long do they take to "learn" what needs to be accelerated?

Personally, I'll never use a hybrid solution for my system drive when cheap SSDs are available, but this would be interesting. I know it's been done before, but those tests are old. They don't go head to head on Windows 10, with bigger capacities or the latest nvme, optane, USB 3.0, or hybrid hard drives available.


I think Optane would be interesting, but I have a server at home, and I've already seen this question answered.

There really is a performance boost with Optane and the reviews show it. The real reason for Optane is that for data storage, platter drives are still king in the cost-per-GB range. This is why my gaming rig has a 1TB WD Black, so I'm not wasting space on my SSDs, but even moreso, why I have a storage array on my HP Proliant ML310e (a RAID-5 of 3TB Hitachi 7.2k NAS drives), and a separate RAID-10 array of 240GB MLC SSDs for the operating system. Storing a couple of terabytes of video, software ISOs, music, etc. isn't cheap to do by SSD, especially reliable, MLC SSD. 12TB of disks (9TB for storage, after the array is configured in this case) is a lot less expensive.

That's why I have a caching hardware RAID controller (HP SmartArray P420, 2GB cache). It makes all the difference in the world in speed when it comes to a modest array of hard disks. Optane works in much the same way as the cache on a RAID controller does, only it doesn't have hardware parity calculations like a RAID controller. If your desire is to speed up a large storage drive, it's a sensible way to do it. OTOH, if you don't need that kind of storage, but you need or want fast data access, better to just get some 512GB-1TB SSDs and be done with it.

I have a 1 TB SSD and two 4TB WD Reds in Raid 1 for media storage. I've thought about getting another 500 GB SSD for the system drive and letting my current SSD be my Steam folder for games, but I haven't felt the need to do so yet. It's just that I like to do a clean install every so often, and my ISP has a data cap.

I will get around to it eventually, but it will probably be whenever I upgrade my CPU, RAM, and mobo. Then I'll just get an NVMe drive and turn this SSD into a game drive for faster load times. Ryzen 3 looks promising, here's hoping I can steady my trigger finger when it launches and watch this competition play out.
Intel Core i7-5775c, Asus Maximus VII Formula, Win 10 Pro
RTX 2080 Ti FE, Corsair 2x8GB DDR3-1866, Corsair AX860
Corsair H105, WD Red 4TB x2, Creative X-Fi Titanium HD
Samsung 850 EVO 1TB, Alienware AW3418DW, Corsair 450D
 
LoneWolf15
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Re: TR Gerbil's Choice Review I - we have a winner!

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:48 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
LoneWolf15 wrote:
Data storage, platter drives are still king in the cost-per-GB range. This is why my gaming rig has a 1TB WD Black, so I'm not wasting space on my SSDs, but even moreso, why I have a storage array on my HP Proliant ML310e (a RAID-5 of 3TB Hitachi 7.2k NAS drives)
If you want fast, get an SSD. If you want lots of space per dollar, get large hard-drives. Your 1 WD TB Black drive seems to fall into neither of those categories. It is tiny and it is three to five times as expensive per TB as other hard-drives. $74½ for a 1.0 TB WD black hard-drive isn't a bargain. The cheapest 1.0 TB SSDs are under $90, just 20% more than your hard-drive.


It was free. It cost me nothing; it was slightly used, a 1-platter drive made in 2015 that replaced a 2-platter 1TB WD Black made in 2010. Came out of a junked system that had its drive replaced at one point; after secure-erasing the data (DBAN), I tested the drive surface and after ensuring it was good, made sense.

It's in the workstation, and just serves to hold some of the userprofile folders.
i9-9900K @4.8GHz, GIGABYTE Z390 Aorus Pro WiFi, 2 x 16GB G.Skill RipJaws V PC3000
Corsair 650D, Seasonic 1Kw Platinum PSU
2x Samsung 850 Pro 512GB, 1TB WD Black, NEC 7200 DVDRW
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LoneWolf15
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Re: TR Gerbil's Choice Review I - we have a winner!

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:52 pm

Waco wrote:
For large storage hardware RAID arrays are a mixed bag. The performance is generally worse than a good ZFS configuration *and* they aren't as good at keeping your bits intact.

For a few TB with some speed, there's no reason not to go SSD these days. Small HDDs are absurdly expensive per bit.

In short, what JAE said. :)


ZFS is great if you're running FreeNAS or a supporting setup. Windows Server has no such ZFS support. So the best solution is a hardware RAID card with caching. Mine also does automatic background testing periodically on the array.

My server also serves as a domain controller, and backs up all of the workstations on the LAN; it then backs itself up to a Thecus 4-bay NAS I also got for free, which has four 3TB WD Red drives. It's an iSCSI target for the server. I never consider RAID a backup (it isn't), just a guarantee of better uptime.
i9-9900K @4.8GHz, GIGABYTE Z390 Aorus Pro WiFi, 2 x 16GB G.Skill RipJaws V PC3000
Corsair 650D, Seasonic 1Kw Platinum PSU
2x Samsung 850 Pro 512GB, 1TB WD Black, NEC 7200 DVDRW
2x Gigabyte GTX 1070 Founders Ed. SLI, Dell 2408WFP-HC
 
LoneWolf15
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Re: TR Gerbil's Choice Review I - we have a winner!

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:57 pm

LoneWolf15 wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:
LoneWolf15 wrote:
Data storage, platter drives are still king in the cost-per-GB range. This is why my gaming rig has a 1TB WD Black, so I'm not wasting space on my SSDs, but even moreso, why I have a storage array on my HP Proliant ML310e (a RAID-5 of 3TB Hitachi 7.2k NAS drives)
If you want fast, get an SSD. If you want lots of space per dollar, get large hard-drives. Your 1 WD TB Black drive seems to fall into neither of those categories. It is tiny and it is three to five times as expensive per TB as other hard-drives. $74½ for a 1.0 TB WD black hard-drive isn't a bargain. The cheapest 1.0 TB SSDs are under $90, just 20% more than your hard-drive.


It was free. It cost me nothing; it was slightly used, a 1-platter drive made in 2015 that replaced a 2-platter 1TB WD Black made in 2010. Came out of a junked system that had its drive replaced at one point; after secure-erasing the data (DBAN), I tested the drive surface and after ensuring it was good, made sense. I have access to a lot of recycled hardware.

It's in the workstation, and just serves to hold some of the userprofile folders. I could use a 600GB Velociraptor I have, but it's also made 2010, there's only so much advantage, and I believe that hard drives are like smoke detector batteries; you should change them every so often.
i9-9900K @4.8GHz, GIGABYTE Z390 Aorus Pro WiFi, 2 x 16GB G.Skill RipJaws V PC3000
Corsair 650D, Seasonic 1Kw Platinum PSU
2x Samsung 850 Pro 512GB, 1TB WD Black, NEC 7200 DVDRW
2x Gigabyte GTX 1070 Founders Ed. SLI, Dell 2408WFP-HC
 
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Re: TR Gerbil's Choice Review I - we have a winner!

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:17 am

This puts Optane in a very good light, even for those that use SSD's:
https://www.kitguru.net/components/ssd- ... -review/7/

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