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Buy or Lease a new EV

Buy
14 (39%)
Lease
12 (33%)
Neither and spend all available funds buying delicious cheese. (But I'd still need a vehicle to haul the cheese)
10 (28%)
 
Total votes: 36
 
cheesyking
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:40 am

I think what you have to remember about timing belts is that they are an excellent source of profit for the car industry. While electric cars don't have them you have to imagine the car industry will just find other ways to keep that profit rolling in.

Changing a timing belt shouldn't be hard or expensive (unless you've got some kind of exotic engine) but the last car I tried to do a one on was clearly designed to be difficult. The engine mounts went through the belt so you had drop the engine slightly to change it. Pretty sure that could have been done differently if the manufacturer had been interested in making it easier to service. I don't expect EVs to suddenly be any cheaper to maintain just because they're inherently simpler.

Wear and tear shouldn't be an issue at 100-150K miles either. You often see ex taxis for sale with over 500K on the clock that have only received standard servicing and are still working perfectly well.

EVs are definitely the future, I just don't think we're there yet unless you fit one of the use cases that EVs are especially good at (like driving around a congested city centre all day then parking somewhere with charging facilities).

Watching that video linked near the start of this thread was interesting. The main problem I have with his conclusions was the average ICE vehicle CO2/KM he used. Something like 500g/KM IIRC. My 16 year old petrol car is supposed to do just 168g/KM. IIRC his calculations show you might potentially have to wait up to 6 years before an EV will have emitted less CO2 than an ICE... well at 168g/KM that's more like 20 years which is probably longer than the lifespan of the vehicle.
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DragonDaddyBear
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:07 pm

cheesyking wrote:
Watching that video linked near the start of this thread was interesting. The main problem I have with his conclusions was the average ICE vehicle CO2/KM he used. Something like 500g/KM IIRC. My 16 year old petrol car is supposed to do just 168g/KM. IIRC his calculations show you might potentially have to wait up to 6 years before an EV will have emitted less CO2 than an ICE... well at 168g/KM that's more like 20 years which is probably longer than the lifespan of the vehicle.

It really depends on the source of your charging power. If you're going renewable for most of your power it's going to be faster than mostly coal.
 
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:11 pm

wierdo wrote:
FireGryphon wrote:
Some of those examples in more detail if curious:

- A Bolt for 37k - or ~30k after our rebates...


Yep. If that’s entry level for an EV with equitable utility, you prove my point: it’s too expensive by about $10k.
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layerup
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:14 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
LostCat wrote:
I have plenty of places to plug it in. I just don't fancy spending $5000 extra to save around a dollar every time I would've filled up.

The ROI on hybrids is also similar. Our Sienna has a hybrid option but it would take years to pay off the cost of the option. Especially when I fill up for $2.28/gallon.


Wow, that must be nice. Gas up here in Washington state is near $3.50/gal. I live 12 miles from work, the entire commute is on interstate traffic. I drive a small 4 cylinder nissan sentra, and still have to fill my car to the tune of >40$ every single week because of the terrible traffic. Amazing how a car that can get 35 mi/gal highway can only get 12 mi/gal on Washington freeways.
 
anotherengineer
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:38 pm

Sargent Duck wrote:
notfred wrote:
Sargent Duck wrote:
The 2019 Leaf/Leaf+ still lacks battery thermal management, but thankfully the 2019 Kona does have this. So for the Ottawa summers, I should be good. I know our winters will drop the battery capacity (my friend who drives a 2017 Nissan Leaf here in Ottawa says about 25% loss, but I'd like to hear what you lose as well).
So mine is rated at 150km, In the winter I see 110km to maybe 100km on the guessometer on the very coldest days where I have been driving down the 417 on the previous day - the Soul isn't aerodynamic and highway speeds seriously hurt its range.



I live in Bayshore area so whether I'm going downtown or out to Kanata, I'll be on the 417. I also have a heavy foot so I'll likely be driving any EV around in "sport" mode and showing off the superior acceleration. Your decrease in battery seems to be within expectation. 100km is still more than enough for driving around Ottawa doing errands.



who needs a vehicle in ottawa with the awesome bus system??

Tough call though
if you bought one, I would probably trade it in/sell it before warranty is up.
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wierdo
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:14 pm

FireGryphon wrote:
wierdo wrote:
FireGryphon wrote:
Some of those examples in more detail if curious:

- A Bolt for 37k - or ~30k after our rebates...

Yep. If that’s entry level for an EV with equitable utility, you prove my point: it’s too expensive by about $10k.

Yeah I guess if we think Corollas then I see your point, TCO talk is fine and all, but some people cannot afford to wait to collect on that.

The only thing I can think of is a cheap Nissan Leaf for around $6-7k these days, they can become practically free cars in about five years of gas/maintenance savings vs a used gas alternative.

"A 2014 Nissan LEAF Can Be An Essentially “Free Car” (YMMV!)"
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/12/13/20 ... s-dollars/

The drawback is these early Leaf models may not cut it for allot of people at only 70 miles of range, they're strictly "around town" cars. Nissan was also kinda known for cutting corners on their "battery management" system, unlike most other companies. So not an ideal product for places like Arizona for example where their batteries get too hot and degrade faster, a solved problem in modern EVs.

EVs are currently competing in the Premium sedan market, so this would make more sense if you were shopping for a Camry and such - TCO gains aside.

But it's a good attempt for GM, matching Tesla's entry premium sedan on price, while still manufacturing in much small quantities at the same time, is not easy. Their second generation should be better, it's a good start for them I think.

The Kona and Nero are pretty nice as well, they're better products if you're thinking TCO, but the entry price tag is still a chllenge they have to overcome through better marketing. Gotta start somewhere.
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Usacomp2k3
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:55 pm

A trouble I foresee for the big car manufacturer's is how they are going to deal with inherently lower need for service on electric cars? As was said earlier, that's ~40+% of their actual profit. Even if say 10% of their sales are EV's, that starts eating into their bottom line pretty noticeably. Currently that subsidizes the sales staff and the inventory (I'm guessing), so what is going to come in and replace that? I don't know what margin they make on direct parts sales either. It's a slightly different business model from the dealership on up to the OEM. My guess is those that are more nimble/flexible and change sooner will be able to weather the storm better.
 
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:58 pm

anotherengineer wrote:
Sargent Duck wrote:
notfred wrote:
So mine is rated at 150km, In the winter I see 110km to maybe 100km on the guessometer on the very coldest days where I have been driving down the 417 on the previous day - the Soul isn't aerodynamic and highway speeds seriously hurt its range.



I live in Bayshore area so whether I'm going downtown or out to Kanata, I'll be on the 417. I also have a heavy foot so I'll likely be driving any EV around in "sport" mode and showing off the superior acceleration. Your decrease in battery seems to be within expectation. 100km is still more than enough for driving around Ottawa doing errands.



who needs a vehicle in ottawa with the awesome bus system??

Tough call though
if you bought one, I would probably trade it in/sell it before warranty is up.


I'm fortunate in that I catch the bus 50" from my house and it takes me right downtown and drops me off 10" from my office. But I'm a lucky one. Overall though, yeah, the bus system in Ottawa sucks. If I'm not going downtown during working hours, I'm taking my car/motorcycle.
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Sargent Duck
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:02 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
A trouble I foresee for the big car manufacturer's is how they are going to deal with inherently lower need for service on electric cars? As was said earlier, that's ~40+% of their actual profit. Even if say 10% of their sales are EV's, that starts eating into their bottom line pretty noticeably. Currently that subsidizes the sales staff and the inventory (I'm guessing), so what is going to come in and replace that? I don't know what margin they make on direct parts sales either. It's a slightly different business model from the dealership on up to the OEM. My guess is those that are more nimble/flexible and change sooner will be able to weather the storm better.


I walked into a Nissan dealership looking at the Leaf and after the standard sales spiel, I asked the salesman "why should I buy the Leaf from you compared to the other dealership?" He responded by saying they had the most modern service center with the most trained technicians and the best facilities. I responded that EV's don't need any of that stuff (as I can do my own brakes". He just sat there stunned for a second and kinda just mumbled "I don't know".

But yes, EV's will drastically cut into a dealership's actual profit.
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:18 pm

Sargent Duck wrote:
I'm fortunate in that I catch the bus 50" from my house and it takes me right downtown and drops me off 10" from my office. But I'm a lucky one. Overall though, yeah, the bus system in Ottawa sucks. If I'm not going downtown during working hours, I'm taking my car/motorcycle.

Such precision in your measurements. 8)
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ludi
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:31 pm

cheesyking wrote:
Wear and tear shouldn't be an issue at 100-150K miles either. You often see ex taxis for sale with over 500K on the clock that have only received standard servicing and are still working perfectly well.

Sounds like double selection bias to me.

First, police and taxi fleet buyers traditionally preferred vehicles that were rugged and easily serviced, and it didn't get much better than, say, a body-on-frame Crown Vic that only had minor design changes in the previous 15+ years. The US Gen2 Prius became an exceptional case because the hybrid system was uniquely suited to city-type traffic duty with fuel savings far outweighing any uncertainties in reliability. (And since it was, at the time, a flagship Toyota product built exclusively on Japanese assembly lines, it turned out it was also quite reliable.)

Second, the cars resold after even a taxi company doesn't want them are, obviously, the hardcore survivors. That doesn't tell you anything about how many were deemed unrepairable and went to the scrapyard in the meantime.

There are many more modern cars going to 100-150K+ with only modest maintenance than in the past, but not all of them do, and of course it depends partly on how it is driven.
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:00 pm

wierdo wrote:
Glorious wrote:
You don't respect my view at all, you've chronically accused me of having a phobia. Saying that the guy you're arguing with is mentally ill isn't remotely "respectful"

What sane person says they're fearing somebody because of their opinion on a new car company? If you can't handle getting called out for it, then don't start throwing stones out of that glass house, old man.


Yep. You're the classic troll. You're debated with by someone who has good, reasoned points and arguments.

You respond by rapidly switching between different unrelated points, and then ad hominems when he points out something you don't like. The only person you're fooling here is yourself.

No matter what I believe and don't believe, I respect his position whether I agree with it or not. Yours has more holes than a block of swiss cheese.
Last edited by LoneWolf15 on Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Redocbew
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:12 pm

Swiss cheese tastes better.
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:34 pm

Redocbew wrote:
Swiss cheese tastes better.


I dunno, I'm kinda think cheddar tastes gouda, too.
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wierdo
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:59 am

Sargent Duck wrote:
I walked into a Nissan dealership looking at the Leaf and after the standard sales spiel, I asked the salesman "why should I buy the Leaf from you compared to the other dealership?" He responded by saying they had the most modern service center with the most trained technicians and the best facilities. I responded that EV's don't need any of that stuff (as I can do my own brakes". He just sat there stunned for a second and kinda just mumbled "I don't know".

But yes, EV's will drastically cut into a dealership's actual profit.

Yeah this is a big challenge for the dealership model that depends on servicing for revenue, would a dealership really want to sell people an EV that requires more education - for both buyer and seller - and thus more time dedicated to each sale... and then on top of that lose out on the servicing income from that sale if the car was just a legacy gasoline vehicle?

It's a hard sell at best, and a conflict of interest at worst.

Financial results for the six publicly traded, new-car dealer groups in the United States show that to a great extent, dealerships are in the business of selling new and used cars so they can service them and finance them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry/2 ... f847c41e6f

But at some point the competitive pressure will make it difficult to avoid this transition for them as well, otherwise it will be forcing more companies to take the idea of moving the dealership-less "digital sales" model as well in order to stay in the game.

The only obstacle in some states here is some old dealership protection laws that are being twisted into pro-dealership lobby market manipulation, but that's slowly changing state by state. It becomes hard to justify having that middleman when they contribute less in after-sales support while in return lead to higher prices and slower adoption of new technology.

Europe doesn't have these obsolete dealership protection laws, so that - and the stronger anti-smog policies - is making EV penetration allot easier. Norway is leading the charge with close to half of the cars on the road becoming EVs now, and other EU members are starting to follow down the same transition trajectory, hard to miss the fact that a major change is afoot in this market.

All-electric vehicles represented 58% of all passenger vehicle sales in the country last month and when adding plug-in hybrids into the mix, electric vehicle sales represented 69% of total sales.

https://electrek.co/2019/04/01/tesla-mo ... ew-record/
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Glorious
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:31 am

wierdo wrote:
Europe doesn't have these obsolete dealership protection laws, so that - and the stronger anti-smog policies - is making EV penetration allot easier. Norway is leading the charge with close to half of the cars on the road becoming EVs now, and other EU members are starting to follow down the same transition trajectory, hard to miss the fact that a major change is afoot in this market.


What Norway actually did, of course, was to tax the living daylights out of anything and everything pertaining to ICEs but then not tax EVs at all, to the point where they generally don't even pay tolls.

It's great to talk about how progressive and futuristic this is, until you remember that Norway literally ran out of butter in the last decade.

Or, you know, you remember that we're neglecting a bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with policy at all: Norway has 40% of the population of just my state, has literally ~100% of its electricity provided by Hydro(due, again, to geography, not really politics), and is the probably the highest per-capita income of any country that actually is a country in the entire world (as in, the only ones that beat it are city-states like Singapore, Macau, Luxembourg etc...)

And, of course, a large factor behind all that wealth is all that glorious north sea oil/gas they sell to everyone else ('cause they have more hydro than they can even use).

But sure, "dealership laws" ---something near and dear to, once again, Tesla, that somehow gets pushed into the overall "conspiracy" or whatever that is suppressing EVs in general.

---

If the major change is that once we get rid of dealership laws, we're going to suddenly be Norway.

Yeah. That's, uh, pretty major, sure.
 
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:53 pm

LoneWolf15 wrote:
Redocbew wrote:
Swiss cheese tastes better.


I dunno, I'm kinda think cheddar tastes gouda, too.

I need to eat some cheese now.
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wierdo
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:09 pm

Sargent Duck wrote:
The only problem I'm having, should I lease or buy? (5 year lease, 20,000km (12427miles)/annual)


I found something relating to your original question:
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... four-times

I hope that helps.
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:39 am

Its July 1st, which means Q2 2019 is over. Within the next month, Tesla Management will finalize the numbers and release them. (Q1 2019 was released on April 24th). So 24-days delay last time the quarter ended. Lets see how close to 95k they get.
 
ludi
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:47 am

Someone at Business Insider has caught on to the fact that volumes are only as good as the profit per unit:
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-2 ... sis-2019-6
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:48 am

dragontamer5788 wrote:
Its July 1st, which means Q2 2019 is over. Within the next month, Tesla Management will finalize the numbers and release them. (Q1 2019 was released on April 24th). So 24-days delay last time the quarter ended. Lets see how close to 95k they get.

Should be interesting.

I'm more curious to hear about the progress on their Chinese factory. It's crazy how far they've come in construction within a few months:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1dbbMjno6A

Looks like they're now starting to put the production equipment inside the facility, as well as a giant substation to provide power to the massive structure.

That should let them expand to Europe next once the cars start rolling in from Shanghai.
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cheesyking
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 am

ludi wrote:
cheesyking wrote:
Wear and tear shouldn't be an issue at 100-150K miles either. You often see ex taxis for sale with over 500K on the clock that have only received standard servicing and are still working perfectly well.

Sounds like double selection bias to me.

First, police and taxi fleet buyers traditionally preferred vehicles that were rugged and easily serviced, and it didn't get much better than, say, a body-on-frame Crown Vic that only had minor design changes in the previous 15+ years. The US Gen2 Prius became an exceptional case because the hybrid system was uniquely suited to city-type traffic duty with fuel savings far outweighing any uncertainties in reliability. (And since it was, at the time, a flagship Toyota product built exclusively on Japanese assembly lines, it turned out it was also quite reliable.)

Second, the cars resold after even a taxi company doesn't want them are, obviously, the hardcore survivors. That doesn't tell you anything about how many were deemed unrepairable and went to the scrapyard in the meantime.

There are many more modern cars going to 100-150K+ with only modest maintenance than in the past, but not all of them do, and of course it depends partly on how it is driven.


The taxis I see are generally just standard cars, often something from VAG so not particularly rugged or easily serviced but not exotic either. True they're usually diesels but since they are just as complex as petrol cars I don't think it makes that much difference any more.

My personal car buying experience is based on pretty much never buying a car with less than 100K (and 10-15 years) on it and then running it until it falls apart (usually after another 100K and 5-10 years). When I do scrap them it isn't irreparable wear and tear on the engine or transmission that does for them it's all the other little faults like: seats starting to collapse, central locking going haywire, airbag lights coming on, windows jamming, leaks from window seals. These faults will all be present on electric vehicles too.

Clearly there are lots of cars that make it passed the first part of the bathtub curve and then have engine / transmission problems before 100K and clearly how the car is driven has a big impact but the same will be true of electric cars. Batteries will fail significantly quicker if the are driven hard and fast charged all the time and there will always be a number of vehicles with defects that cause early scrapping.

I'm just saying that wear and tear on the engine and transmission really shouldn't be an issue on a modern vehicle if it's "only" done 100-150K unless it has been seriously abused. Electric cars will likely be better as, for example, impossible to abuse them by running the engine out of oil but I'm sure the kind of people who can't be bothered to check their oil every now and again will just find new and exciting ways to damage the battery in their EV.

What concerns me about the longevity of EVs is:
- Can someone other than the manufacturer service the battery? I know it's possible at the moment but what's to stop car makers locking this down for "safety".
- If they ever do lock the batteries down, how much will new ones be and how long will they be available for any particular model.
- How long will the batteries really last? There are lots of estimates at the moment but they haven't been around long enough for us to really know.
- How common are battery problems going to be that aren't wear related? Shock from rough roads or minor collisions might cause problems, I've read about EVs being written off because of fears about the battery after a minor crash.
- Are the car makers really going to take advantage of the potential of EVs and push the lifespan of the vehicles up or are we still going to get a designed lifespan of about 10 years.
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:39 am

All 4 cars we've on from in the 11 years of marriage were engine/transmission related. All around 150k miles. Saturn, Infiniti, & Ford x2. The Toyota's we have now are tanks.

Edit: Punctuation
Last edited by Usacomp2k3 on Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:21 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
All 4 cars we've on from in the 11 years of marriage were engine/transmission related. All around 150k miles. Saturn, Infiniti Ford x2. The Toyota's we have now are tanks.


Were those problems because the engine / transmission was worn out or just in need of maintenance which wasn't worth it because of the age of / other problems with the vehicle? Were they electrical faults? I don't really class most electrical faults as wear and possibly EVs may have similar non wear problems with their batteries given how many hundreds of connections they have inside them.

I've got to admit I do try to be gentle on cars so maybe I'm the odd one out. Also, when I buy my old cars I choose ones with the most basic engine and transmission possible, no automatics, CVT, twin clutch, turbos or engines with more than 4 cylinders etc for me and I'm sure that must help a bit too.

I am going to be very interested to see what failure modes EVs generally get but we won't know these for sure for another 10 years at least.
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:24 am

cheesyking wrote:
My personal car buying experience is based on pretty much never buying a car with less than 100K (and 10-15 years) on it and then running it until it falls apart (usually after another 100K and 5-10 years). When I do scrap them it isn't irreparable wear and tear on the engine or transmission that does for them it's all the other little faults like: seats starting to collapse, central locking going haywire, airbag lights coming on, windows jamming, leaks from window seals.

LOL, I've done much the same for most of our vehicles, except I tend to acquire them in the 50-100K range and 5-10 years. The problem with this approach is that at some point they get to the stage where my wife says "I'm not driving that thing any more", which makes things difficult when the other vehicle is in the shop.

We're at that that stage on our old mini-van now (one of only 2 vehicles we've ever purchased new). It has a ridiculous amount of rust (the rocker panels and the bottom of the drivers' side door are basically gone), dents and dings aplenty, leaks oil, and has lots of other smaller problems. Still runs though, and gets me from point A to point B. Just last week someone rear-ended me at a stoplight, did some minor damage to the rear hatch (and another small ding in the already trashed rear bumper). Offered me $300 cash on the spot to not file a report. I thought that was a pretty reasonable deal... :lol:
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:30 am

just brew it! wrote:
Just last week someone rear-ended me at a stoplight, did some minor damage to the rear hatch. Offered me $300 cash on the spot to not file a report. I thought that was a pretty reasonable deal... :lol:

And JBI is an honorable man.

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just brew it!
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:45 am

Hey, nobody got hurt, and $300 is likely a substantial fraction of the vehicle's current value. In retrospect, I should've insisted that he also take the dead rear projection TV sitting in the back of the van that I still need to dispose of!
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Usacomp2k3
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:59 am

cheesyking wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
All 4 cars we've on from in the 11 years of marriage were engine/transmission related. All around 150k miles. Saturn, Infiniti Ford x2. The Toyota's we have now are tanks.

Were those problems because the engine / transmission was worn out or just in need of maintenance which wasn't worth it because of the age of / other problems with the vehicle? Were they electrical faults? I don't really class most electrical faults as wear and possibly EVs may have similar non wear problems with their batteries given how many hundreds of connections they have inside them.

The 2 fords were a 6-cyl CVT (loved everything about the Freestyle except the longevity of the transmission. $6k to replace the transmission was not worth it) and a funky ZETEC on a Focus wagon that kept stalling out and $1200 worth of diagnostics and "fixes" from multiple mechanics couldn't ever get to go away. The Inifity was a 8-cyl Q45 which was a combination for a $1000 AC compressor to replace and then the engine kept overheating and stalling out even with a new radiator and water pump. After dumping $1000 into that I sold it for about $2k. It only had 90k miles on it I think. A guy bought it as a parts car for a...350Z, maybe a 240SX. Don't remember. The Saturn hit 150,500 miles and we lost 2nd gear and then 3rd gear on the way in to buy the Corolla. The windows motors were shot, the sunroof leaked (ended up just using roofing tar to glue it shut), the seat springs were worn out.
When the Freestyle died, I paid more than I wanted to for the van, but needed something reliable for my wife and my ability to buy low-cost cars and run them into the ground had proven to be pretty poor decision. We easily spent more in the last 8 years fixing all the 2nd cars combined than we paid for a 2YO Corolla.
Last edited by Usacomp2k3 on Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
Glorious
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:08 am

Cheesyking wrote:
- How common are battery problems going to be that aren't wear related? Shock from rough roads or minor collisions might cause problems, I've read about EVs being written off because of fears about the battery after a minor crash.


This is an unusual and interesting failure mode.

In the Tesla models the batteries are installed in like a underframe chassis, which seems to have like a clearance of 6-9".

This means, of course, that the wrong sort of road disruption or debris won't just shear off an oilpan or tear out your exhaust, but likely puncture and destroy the battery pack entirely--any intrusion anywhere on the undercarriage becomes a terminal event(potentially for the entire car). A significant "thump" might even do it.

You can lose an oilpan (I mean, don't drive it after you do) and it's not even a huge repair. You can rip off a muffler and still chug along (I mean, it'll be LOUD), and that's not really a huge deal either.

I know, I've actually done both. :o

Having those events not only be ghastly expensive, but likely total the car and potentially endanger my life: I mean, those are real considerations, at least for me. :wink:
 
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Re: To Lease or too buy an EV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:17 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Hey, nobody got hurt, and $300 is likely a substantial fraction of the vehicle's current value. In retrospect, I should've insisted that he also take the dead rear projection TV sitting in the back of the van that I still need to dispose of!


The dealer is only offering me $500 for my ENTIRE car, so if someone dinged my rear end and offered me $300, I'd be taking it!
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