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meerkt
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Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:30 am

Image

And seriously, any thoughts on the importance of having every element certified for drinking water?
Not just pipes, but valves, gauges... And not just lead, but other metals, plastics, etc.
 
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:48 am

Lead-Free, contains less than 13% Lead?
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:49 am

What I want to know is, how can "less than 13% lead" be considered "lead free"? 12% lead is still a lot!

Edit: Got beaten to it...
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bthylafh
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:57 am

I did a reverse image search and it's for this:

https://www.amazon.com/NABLUE-Regulator ... B071RL34HN

Something tells me that 13% lead brass is really chinesium alloy.
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:01 am

"We use High-tech to purging most of lead"
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:08 am

FWIW, it *is* possible to remove the surface lead from brass fittings by "pickling" the brass in a solution of acetic acid and peroxide. This reduces the amount of lead that can dissolve into whatever is flowing through the fittings to negligible levels. This is likely the "high-tech to purging" being referred to (assuming they've actually done it). Not sure if that legally qualifies as "lead free" though.

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The Egg
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:13 am

I spread 12% leaded butter on my toast, and I'm perfectly fine. 8)
 
meerkt
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:22 am

In case the image completely overshadowed it, there was also a question. :)

bthylafh wrote:
I did a reverse image search and it's for this:

Could also click the image.
 
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:26 am

I'd say it is fairly important. You *really* don't want nasty plasticizers or heavy metals leaching into your drinking water. If you're dealing with hot water distribution you need to look at permissible temperature ranges as well, since some "food grade" plastics are only good up to a certain temperature.
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The Egg
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:36 am

bthylafh wrote:
Something tells me that 13% lead brass is really chinesium alloy.

It's a mixture of pot metal and lead-cadmium alloy, with a zinc coating, and spray-painted brass color.
 
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:06 am

meerkt wrote:
In case the image completely overshadowed it, there was also a question. :)


How much do you value not getting lead poisoning? How is that even a question?
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:12 am

Well, for water supply I'd go with either copper or PEX. If it's new construction, PEX is a no-brainer.
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:19 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Well, for water supply I'd go with either copper or PEX. If it's new construction, PEX is a no-brainer.

Pex is awesome (assuming you use good joints) for homerun setups.
 
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:24 am

What makes PEX so good? Is it usable in its pure form, with no additives?
 
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:28 am

Wirko wrote:
What makes PEX so good? Is it usable in its pure form, with no additives?

It's a lot more flexible than copper, and more resistant to freeze bursting (somewhat important up here in the North). That, and it can be a single run from distribution head to fixture with no intervening joints.
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:33 am

If it's for drinking water, I wouldn't skimp.
 
meerkt
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:39 am

bthylafh wrote:
How much do you value not getting lead poisoning? How is that even a question?

I'm not talking about lead. I'm pretty sure stuff sold by reputable stores, or at least manufactured by known companies, would not have marquee issues.

But what about plastic pipes. Would you try to find "drinking water versions"? Or pressure gauges. Does it matter at all there? Would you only use drinking water versions (I think that's a relatively new idea) from a known manufacturer? What about unknown brands if that's what happens to be available in a store, and bushings, and adapters... Assuming no one makes a big deal out of this, is it safe to assume it doesn't matter?

It's not about skimping but a question of what's available in local stores, and whether there's any info available on specific items.

BTW, that 13% was supposed to 0.13%; similar products with different brand names have roughly the same text.
 
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:57 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Wirko wrote:
What makes PEX so good? Is it usable in its pure form, with no additives?

It's a lot more flexible than copper, and more resistant to freeze bursting (somewhat important up here in the North). That, and it can be a single run from distribution head to fixture with no intervening joints.

The lack of joints is the #1 benefit in my eyes.
 
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:12 pm

I lol’d at chinesium.
For drinking water just check for ansi/nsf/can 61 certification.
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:25 pm

meerkt wrote:
And seriously, any thoughts on the importance of having every element certified for drinking water?
Not just pipes, but valves, gauges... And not just lead, but other metals, plastics, etc.

In an RV? Pretty important. Part of the leaching issue arises when a system deals with relatively low or infrequent flows and materials have time to migrate in higher concentrations. I assume you drain the system correctly between uses, but then another part that is especially relevant to an RV, is when the system deals with frequent temperature extremes that can encourage materials to break down and migrate/separate.

Why take a chance on a ScAmazon third-party for something like that, when reputable vendors have, like, forty options?
https://www.homedepot.com/s/rv%2520wate ... tor?NCNI-5
https://www.acehardware.com/search?quer ... +regulator
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Road-Home-RV-I ... 1000458963
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meerkt
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:39 pm

ludi wrote:
In an RV?
Not an RV, a static installation.
 
ludi
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:47 pm

meerkt wrote:
ludi wrote:
In an RV?
Not an RV, a static installation.

If you're building professionally, it's nothing but liability as far as the eye can see.

In a private home, it depends. Most full-occupancy homes get purged with high flow volumes by toilets, showers, and outdoor irrigation. A part-year or low-occupancy residence could see more leaching from obsolete or unapproved plumbing. In any case, supplies purchased at a reputable home improvement, hardware, or plumbing supply store should be rated for potable use regardless. If you're buying uncertified third-party products to save a few bucks it will more likely bite you when something fails under pressure.
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:31 pm

ludi wrote:
In an RV? Pretty important. Part of the leaching issue arises when a system deals with relatively low or infrequent flows and materials have time to migrate in higher concentrations. I assume you drain the system correctly between uses, but then another part that is especially relevant to an RV, is when the system deals with frequent temperature extremes that can encourage materials to break down and migrate/separate.


Which is also, by the way, the reason why it's a good idea (particularly in older homes), to let that tap water run for a little bit before you start using it towards anything you'll eventually consume.

It's much more minute in degree than in the extended duration example ludi explains, but even in places with old pipes/solder or fixtures it isn't entirely negligible either.

EDIT: ack I should have fully read ludi's last post, where he explains this before I did.

oh well, x2 then.
 
meerkt
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:37 pm

Not professionally. Just needed to fix stuff recently and it made me wonder. Both about some of the old existing piping, and extra elements I'm yet to get. The house is in constant use. Minimizing drinking a few days after installation is possible, but is that all there is to it?

Approved plumbing is something you (hopefully) do during initial construction or in big jobs, but afterwards it's a patchwork of local fixes by random handymen, with random supplies from who knows where. Stores don't necessarily have everything branded. Big items, possibly. Small stuff could just as well be from China.

Even if it's branded, no idea to what and where you need to pay attention. Do irrigation supplies automatically imply potable? To what resolution would you go? You can't find the manufacturer and specs of every fitting.
 
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:07 pm

meerkt wrote:
Stores don't necessarily have everything branded. Big items, possibly. Small stuff could just as well be from China.

"Made in China" is not one uniform quality grade. Reliable vendors and retailers police their supply chains for regulatory and specification compliance. That means knowing where your lots are coming from, factory visits, and performing random validation tests on samples and/or submitting samples to interested regulatory agencies on request. If you buy a plumbing valve or electrical outlet at Home Depot, it's usually made in China but there's something like a 95% chance it works to all applicable North American codes and specifications, and a 100% chance it gets publicly recalled otherwise.

When you buy random goods of this type from Internet vendors, you're rolling the dice on a knock-off or derivative design that may be nearly as good as the original (stolen) IP, or may have a bunch of cost cutting hidden inside through reduction in materials quality and quantity. The Shenzhen-based seller's entire business assets consist of a few off-books, third-shift production runs at his brother's factory; a laptop; a state-side VPN subscription; and a rotating collection of eBay and Amazon accounts. He can sell a gray-market production run in North America for 20% less than the same thing at Home Depot, which gets your attention, but still make an enormous profit even after shipping costs and refunds issued to buyers of DOA units. He has no official business presence or reputation to be concerned about, and is solely interested in quick profit. Make a hundred gray market units, sell them in the US over a course of 2-3 months, refund 15 or 20 DOAs, pocket the profits, and abandon the now-tainted seller accounts. Wash, rinse, repeat. If the product blows up in your face sometime later due to substandard materials or workmanship, you have no recourse.

That's not to say that everything sold this way is junk or catastrophically unsafe, but enough of it is that you shouldn't even dabble with it unless you know how to assess its condition sensibly.
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:45 am

meerkt wrote:
BTW, that 13% was supposed to 0.13%; similar products with different brand names have roughly the same text.


Thank goodness; 13% is crazy for carrying anything potable. Having said that, I completely agree with Ludi's take on the situation.
 
meerkt
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Re: Lead-free piping!

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:56 am

Yeah, by "China" I mean the brand/channel and the associated level of certainty, not the place of manufacture.
That can be a problem also in physical stores, not only internet purchasing.

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