Personal computing discussed

Moderators: askfranklin, renee, emkubed, Captain Ned

 
derFunkenstein
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 25122
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:53 pm

Aether wrote:
This is making the false assumption that adipose fat is caused from consumption of dietary fat. Most body fat is created from an insulin response to simple carbohydrates, in which the simple carbohydrates are converted to body fat by this response. Dietary fat does not cause insulin spikes, so consumption of fat only leads to body fat if you eat more than you burn off.

Also, it's worth noting that not all fats are created equal. There have been some preliminary studies indicating that the body handles fats from natural food (meats, avocados, etc.) well, likely as a result of evolution. OTOH, the body does not necessarily know how to handle fats not found in nature (e.g., hydrogenated vegetable oils), as we are not evolutionarily prepared for this. So just talking about "fats" as either good or bad is incorrectly framing the issue.

As a type 2 diabetic who has kept his A1C and blood sugar levels under control using diet and exercise alone, this jives with what my doctor told me and exactly matches my experience.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Twittering away the day at @TVsBen
 
Redocbew
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:58 pm

Aether wrote:
This is making the false assumption that adipose fat is caused from consumption of dietary fat. Most body fat is created from an insulin response to simple carbohydrates, in which the simple carbohydrates are converted to body fat by this response. Dietary fat does not cause insulin spikes, so consumption of fat only leads to body fat if you eat more than you burn off.


Indeed. Excess glucose gets converted into glycogen. Glycogen and adipose tissue are our two main forms of "long term" energy storage, but there's a limit to how much glycogen can be stored at any one time. Past that, it gets converted into fat both in muscles and in the fat cells which make up adipose tissue, so consuming dietary fat does not go straight into your fat reserves. It get metabolized and used for energy. Where it ends up depends on your level of activity and energy requirements.

What's interesting about fat loss and exercise is that as your level of activity rises past a certain point the portion of energy derived from fat decreases, because metabolizing fat requires oxygen. However, the overall volume of fat being burned is greater. While writing this post most of the energy I'm using to do it comes from fat, but it won't really go anywhere until I finally get off my ass and go work out. :P
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
adampk17
Gold subscriber
Gerbil XP
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Seattle Metro Area

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:23 pm

Dietary fat in one's diet does not cause obesity or diabetes. Sugar, including carbohydrates, does.
Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost.

Core i7-8086K | GIGABYTE Z370 AORUS Gaming | G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB 3200 | SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2 2280 1TB | Gigabyte GTX 1080 Ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G| Corsair CX750M PSU
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:22 pm

bthylafh wrote:
This isn't the first pseudo-scientific crap OP's credulously posted about here.


Dr. McDougall is not a pseudo-scientist. Neither are the doctors involved in the "Reverse Diabetes" study. None of them is trying to make a buck. They are giving away a cure and unfortunately, people here would gladly just remain a slave to the Big Pharmas rather than seek a permanent solution.
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:23 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
As a type 2 diabetic who has kept his A1C and blood sugar levels under control using diet and exercise alone, this jives with what my doctor told me and exactly matches my experience.


You can do the diet under your doctor's supervision. Doesn't work for you in three days, fine. Don't ever do it again.
 
Redocbew
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:24 pm

Yeah, well since none of them have been invited on a trip to Stockholm as would likely happen for anyone who did cure Diabetes, then I'm ok with being a sheep according to you.
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
adampk17
Gold subscriber
Gerbil XP
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Seattle Metro Area

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:34 pm

Redocbew wrote:
Yeah, well since none of them have been invited on a trip to Stockholm as would likely happen for anyone who did cure Diabetes, then I'm ok with being a sheep according to you.


Type 2 IS almost always reversible. The OP is correct that diet is the answer, not meds. Most of the meds for diabetes make the problem worse in the long run.
Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost.

Core i7-8086K | GIGABYTE Z370 AORUS Gaming | G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB 3200 | SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2 2280 1TB | Gigabyte GTX 1080 Ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G| Corsair CX750M PSU
 
qmacpoint
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:56 pm

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:41 pm

Aether wrote:
Also, it's worth noting that not all fats are created equal. There have been some preliminary studies indicating that the body handles fats from natural food (meats, avocados, etc.) well, likely as a result of evolution. OTOH, the body does not necessarily know how to handle fats not found in nature (e.g., hydrogenated vegetable oils), as we are not evolutionarily prepared for this. So just talking about "fats" as either good or bad is incorrectly framing the issue.


This: Everyone I've ever encountered that are not medics keep grouping things into "good" fats and "bad" fats which is just wrong. Not sure why people don't have more common sense, I mean, medics have to study for ages, so they know better on this, right?
 
Redocbew
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:53 pm

adampk17 wrote:
Type 2 IS almost always reversible. The OP is correct that diet is the answer, not meds. Most of the meds for diabetes make the problem worse in the long run.


Again, if someone knew exactly what the balance was between diet and genetic predisposition, and they did have a "cure" for Diabetes, then this would be a very different world we're living it, but it's not. You might as well be arguing that the sky is purple.

Diabetes is an extraordinarily old disease just like epilepsy and schizophrenia. There's cases going back to forever, so keep that in mind before making any kind of statement about how we've got everything all figured out.
Last edited by Redocbew on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
adampk17
Gold subscriber
Gerbil XP
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Seattle Metro Area

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:57 pm

Redocbew wrote:
adampk17 wrote:
Type 2 IS almost always reversible. The OP is correct that diet is the answer, not meds. Most of the meds for diabetes make the problem worse in the long run.


Again, if someone knew exactly what the balance was between diet and genetic predisposition, and they did have a "cure" for Diabetes, then this would be a very different world we're living it, but it's not. You might as well be arguing that the sky is purple.

Diabetes is an extraordinary old disease just like epilepsy and schizophrenia. There's cases going back to forever, so keep that in mind before making any kind of statement about how we've got everything all figured out.


Sure, diabetes is an old disease but the epidemic of T2D is not. It’s quite new, last 30-40 years. What has changed? Mostly our diet.
Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost.

Core i7-8086K | GIGABYTE Z370 AORUS Gaming | G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB 3200 | SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2 2280 1TB | Gigabyte GTX 1080 Ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G| Corsair CX750M PSU
 
Redocbew
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:02 pm

... which you went ahead and did anyway. :lol:

If that's good enough for you dude, then so be it, but I hope you don't have a job in the health care profession. :P
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:12 pm

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
As a type 2 diabetic who has kept his A1C and blood sugar levels under control using diet and exercise alone, this jives with what my doctor told me and exactly matches my experience.


You can do the diet under your doctor's supervision. Doesn't work for you in three days, fine. Don't ever do it again.


If the diet sounds too strict for you, you can go with the Prolon FMD. Only 5 days a month eating only what they give you to eat. It's not cheap. But you only have to do FMD for 3 or 4 months and you should see your insulin sensitivity increase tremendously. Only issue is, it's hard on the kidneys and they specifically mention not to do it if you have CKD.
 
Glorious
Gold subscriber
Gerbilus Supremus
Posts: 11763
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:20 pm

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Only issue is, it's hard on the kidneys and they specifically mention not to do it if you have CKD.


"I'll take 'How many organs can I utterly F up' for 5 short months of dieting, Trebek!"
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:49 pm

Glorious wrote:
Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Only issue is, it's hard on the kidneys and they specifically mention not to do it if you have CKD.


"I'll take 'How many organs can I utterly F up' for 5 short months of dieting, Trebek!"


"Hard on the kidneys" isn't the same thing as ruining the kidneys. Just means you shouldn't be doing FMD if you have consistently weak kidneys. Healthy kidneys can take a bit of stress and they do have the capacity to regenerate as long as the damage to them isn't severe.
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:52 pm

Aether wrote:
Dietary fat does not cause insulin spikes, so consumption of fat only leads to body fat if you eat more than you burn off.


That's the main problem. Most people DO eat more fat than they can burn and a lot of it tends to be the greasy fast food kind.
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:58 pm

 
Yan
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:37 pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:24 pm

Reading this thread is like getting medical advice from Yahoo Answers.
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:53 pm

Yan wrote:
Reading this thread is like getting medical advice from Yahoo Answers.


As opposed to making doctors and hospitals and Pharmas rich? Trust me, if you can logically string together facts, you will do a better job of looking after your health than these "medical practitioners" ever could. Majority of them are just in it for the money and the good life and prestige that comes with it. They don't care about the pain and trauma of sickness and disease. Would a butcher be able to do his job if he started caring about the animals he slaughters?
 
derFunkenstein
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 25122
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:05 pm

:o
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Twittering away the day at @TVsBen
 
tanker27
Gerbil Khan
Posts: 9300
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:22 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
My friend was the biggest skeptic. He refused to believe that his body's insulin sensitivity increased due to the rice diet. He kept telling me, this is only happening coz I am following a specific diet. As soon as I veer away from this, my blood glucose levels will shoot up. Well, once the 15 days were over, I told him to start adding other foods not allowed by rice diet. And his levels are still more or less stable. If you are going to analyze this diet from a theoretical point of view, you will never be able to believe in it enough to try it. Because the thinking that starches or carbs cause Diabetes is wrong. It's the unhealthy amount of plant oils used to cook food. The rice diet has no fats other than the natural fats in white rice which leads to reduced fat burden on the body, allowing it to function more effectively.


OMG /Facepalm

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
As opposed to making doctors and hospitals and Pharmas rich? Trust me, if you can logically string together facts, you will do a better job of looking after your health than these "medical practitioners" ever could. Majority of them are just in it for the money and the good life and prestige that comes with it. They don't care about the pain and trauma of sickness and disease. Would a butcher be able to do his job if he started caring about the animals he slaughters?



Double OMG!

/sigh
(\_/)
(O.o)
(''')(''')
Watch out for evil Terra-Tron; He Does not like you!
 
Krogoth
Gerbil Elder
Posts: 5754
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:20 pm
Location: somewhere on Core Prime
Contact:

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:41 am

adampk17 wrote:
Redocbew wrote:
adampk17 wrote:
Type 2 IS almost always reversible. The OP is correct that diet is the answer, not meds. Most of the meds for diabetes make the problem worse in the long run.


Again, if someone knew exactly what the balance was between diet and genetic predisposition, and they did have a "cure" for Diabetes, then this would be a very different world we're living it, but it's not. You might as well be arguing that the sky is purple.

Diabetes is an extraordinary old disease just like epilepsy and schizophrenia. There's cases going back to forever, so keep that in mind before making any kind of statement about how we've got everything all figured out.


Sure, diabetes is an old disease but the epidemic of T2D is not. It’s quite new, last 30-40 years. What has changed? Mostly our diet.


The noticeable increase in simple carbs and portion sizes in everything. We are consuming way more food while not burning as much before. Demonization of fats didn't help things either. We just substituted it more simple sugars which any doesn't get consumed by daily calorie intake gets converted to body fats. It is simple physics and chemistry at work. Most people just don't realize how much energy is contain in those delicious meals and how much effort is required to burn it.
Gigabyte Z390 AORUS-PRO Coffee Lake R 9700K, 2x8GiB of G.Skill DDR4-3600, Sapphire RX Vega 64, Corsair CX-750M V2 and Fractal Define R4 (W)
Ivy Bridge 3570K, 2x4GiB of G.Skill RIPSAW DDR3-1600, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, Corsair CX-750M V2, and PC-7B
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 53058
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:33 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Dr. McDougall is not a pseudo-scientist.

Actually, based on what I've read about him, I disagree with this statement. You don't seem to understand how science works, so I'd say your ability to spot pseudo-science is also suspect.

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Neither are the doctors involved in the "Reverse Diabetes" study.

Correct. But you seem to have misunderstood (or are perhaps are deliberately misrepresenting?) the conclusions they reached. It merely confirms what we already suspected, namely that over-eating can cause diabetes, and consuming fewer calories than your body burns can control or even reverse it. This has nothing to do with the rice diet per se, other than the fact that the rice diet is just another form of calorie restriction (i.e. a "fad" diet).

Claiming that the "Reverse Diabetes" study somehow legitimizes McDougall makes no sense.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
The Egg
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2850
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:46 pm

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:06 am

I have a strong suspicion that there was never any "friend" diagnosed with Type 2. Not sure what the angle is here, but I think we all just wasted some time.
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:21 am

just brew it! wrote:
Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Dr. McDougall is not a pseudo-scientist.

Actually, based on what I've read about him, I disagree with this statement. You don't seem to understand how science works, so I'd say your ability to spot pseudo-science is also suspect.


https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/prog ... on-course/

Granted, I'm not a trained scientist BUT do the laws of USA allow a pseudo-scientist to offer a certification program and a person so certified is then free to dispense pseudo-health-advice to patients with potentially life threatening conditions?

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Claiming that the "Reverse Diabetes" study somehow legitimizes McDougall makes no sense.


No idea where this is coming from. I made no such claim. My apologies in case you prove me wrong.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 53058
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:32 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Granted, I'm not a trained scientist BUT do the laws of USA allow a pseudo-scientist to offer a certification program and a person so certified is then free to dispense pseudo-health-advice to patients with potentially life threatening conditions?

You can call anything you want a "certification". Whether or not the certification has any real value depends on who is doing the certifying. From the page you linked:
Successful completion of this course certifies that you’ve learned the basic principles behind the McDougall Diet

IOW, McDougall's organization will "certify" that you are ready to teach other people the McDougall Diet. It's circular. It says nothing about the science behind that diet.

If the Flat Earth society offers certifications in Flat Earth theory, does that make it true?

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
I wrote:
Claiming that the "Reverse Diabetes" study somehow legitimizes McDougall makes no sense.

No idea where this is coming from. I made no such claim. My apologies in case you prove me wrong.

If you weren't citing it to support your case, why did you even mention it? At best, you're throwing it out there as a diversion: "Look, this is legit! So the other stuff I'm talking about must be legit too!"
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:33 am

The Egg wrote:
I have a strong suspicion that there was never any "friend" diagnosed with Type 2. Not sure what the angle is here, but I think we all just wasted some time.


I'm sorry that you think that. I have no interest in wasting anyone's precious time. No one forced you to read this thread. Please find below two images from my friend's personal log of the diet here:

https://ibb.co/xmk9Zr3
https://ibb.co/zN6BqsQ

I only posted about this diet in case it might help someone here. But thanks a lot, guys, for pouncing on me and treating me like I am the worst troll on these forums. No good deed goes unpunished these days, it seems.
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:41 am

just brew it! wrote:

If the Flat Earth society offers certifications in Flat Earth theory, does that make it true?
...

If you weren't citing it to support your case, why did you even mention it? At best, you're throwing it out there as a diversion: "Look, this is legit! So the other stuff I'm talking about must be legit too!"


So your main beef with me is that I am propagating falsehood for some reason, maybe personal gain or whatever or just trolling. Fine. I will cease to do so. No more trying to explain the benefits of this diet. The only thing I was selling was hope and maybe happiness when the results spoke for themselves. But thanks a lot for dissuading like minded people from even trying this diet. You definitely saved some lives. Bravo. Give yourself a nice pat on your back. And please, I have no grudge towards you so hopefully you won't hate me too. Just sucks that we couldn't agree. Ah well. Life goes on.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 53058
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:48 am

At best, I believe you are too gullible, and need to approach things more logically. Maybe instead of trying to take the discussion off on a tangent that was only peripherally related to the topic, you could've engaged with the people pointing out the flaws in the original line of reasoning?

Some of us do tend to react strongly when we think people are spreading misinformation, whether intentionally or not. On the whole, I believe this is a good thing.

Just because you read it on the internet somewhere doesn't make it true. That applies to Dr, McDougall's site... and it applies to these forums!
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
cynan
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1160
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:30 pm

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:32 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
The Egg wrote:
I have a strong suspicion that there was never any "friend" diagnosed with Type 2. Not sure what the angle is here, but I think we all just wasted some time.


I'm sorry that you think that. I have no interest in wasting anyone's precious time. No one forced you to read this thread. Please find below two images from my friend's personal log of the diet here:

https://ibb.co/xmk9Zr3
https://ibb.co/zN6BqsQ

I only posted about this diet in case it might help someone here. But thanks a lot, guys, for pouncing on me and treating me like I am the worst troll on these forums. No good deed goes unpunished these days, it seems.


Those food logs itemize very little caloric intake. Any real decline in blood glucose is due to caloric restriction, and probably not the magic/wonders of rice in any endocrine/catabolic sense. If you starve yourself, yes, your blood glucose will drop. But it's not sustainable.
 
tanker27
Gerbil Khan
Posts: 9300
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Kempner Rice Diet

Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:50 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
So your main beef with me is that I am propagating falsehood for some reason, maybe personal gain or whatever or just trolling.


No, it's because of, as JBI pointed out, that you were gullible in inferring that a white rice diet would even be remotely healthy. It's not, a whole Race, Ethnicity, culture is realizing this!

just brew it! wrote:
If the Flat Earth society offers certifications in Flat Earth theory, does that make it true?


It is flat! and where can I get certified in it!? 8)
(\_/)
(O.o)
(''')(''')
Watch out for evil Terra-Tron; He Does not like you!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Philldoe and 6 guests
GZIP: On