Personal computing discussed

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tanker27
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Re: Something's different...

Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:50 am

FireGryphon wrote:
.... unpaid volunteer staff .....


I need to point out that it is because of these individuals that some of us are still around and the reason why that it didn't get any worse that it did (speaking about myself and in general)! While I'm not privy to their interactions with the owners and EIC but I am starting to feel that these individuals are getting short changed and that the new owners and EIC are taking them for granted.

I've gotten called out for my comments both publicly and privately and I'm ok with that (I don't need a safe space :P ). I am brutally honest and speak as such to a fault. There isn't a reason to sugar coat anything because in the long run it doesn't help anyone.

But I am hanging on as a rubber-necker. I got to see this car crash! :D Besides its hard to tear away from one of your favorite daily hangouts.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(''')(''')
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The Egg
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Re: Something's different...

Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:00 am

@ FireGryphon

If it had been all benign constructive criticism, then what was I reacting to on that 6th day? Nobody has claimed the new owners are without fault or err (they certainly aren't). I doubt they care enough to have any actual hard feelings. The TR community was/is in a very poor position with almost no leverage. Whether deserved or not, throwing out a "torrent" (or whatever you want to call it) of negativity only serves to slam the door shut, leaving us with nothing. That's what I was trying to avoid; I'm not worried about hurting feelings.

In the grander scope of things, I doubt what the community did mattered much either way, so maybe I should take my own advice and stop giving people crap about it. Water under the bridge at this point.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Something's different...

Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:37 am

The Egg wrote:
@ FireGryphon

If it had been all benign constructive criticism, then what was I reacting to on that 6th day?

Probably reacted to the backlash to this post.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
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Srsly_Bro
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Re: Something's different...

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:19 pm

I hope Renee doesn't think that we are upset and lashing out that it somehow has anything to do with her gender. In the modern were, it's easy for people to blame others and bury their heads in sand.

This isn't a bunch of nerds picking on a girl; this is a bunch of nerds upset over a very poorly handled takeover of a site that many have visited for years.

Message to Renee:

Not addressing the community as members who have contributed for years and instead looking at them as people who are just here, is a mistake and won't get anyone to like you.

Of you don't truthfully engage and make an attempt to be part of the community, no one will let you in.

Signed,

the_most_srs_bro
 
Yan
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Re: Something's different...

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:49 pm

Srsly_Bro wrote:
I hope Renee doesn't think that we are upset and lashing out that it somehow has anything to do with her gender.

Gerbils haven't been shy about what's upsetting them. They've mentioned at least 16 specific problems with the site, as well as general disapproval, in reaction to her introductory post. Nobody has said anything about her sex.

Compared to other Web sites, TR is remarkably civilised.
 
Mr Bill
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Re: Something's different...

Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:08 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
The Egg wrote:
@ FireGryphon

If it had been all benign constructive criticism, then what was I reacting to on that 6th day?

Probably reacted to the backlash to this post.
That first line...
Today, Tech Report launched with a new design; we hope you like it.
was just epic fail to all of us who were slack jawed with amazement and horror. Looking back on it; it would have been the best April fool's joke ever.
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Srsly_Bro
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Re: Something's different...

Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:39 pm

Yan wrote:
Srsly_Bro wrote:
I hope Renee doesn't think that we are upset and lashing out that it somehow has anything to do with her gender.

Gerbils haven't been shy about what's upsetting them. They've mentioned at least 16 specific problems with the site, as well as general disapproval, in reaction to her introductory post. Nobody has said anything about her sex.

Compared to other Web sites, TR is remarkably civilised.


I agree with your points. In the modern era, it's easier for people to assume they are being targeted for a specific reason and turn blame than it is to accept that there is something of issue.
 
JohnC
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:22 am

Just a random idea/advice: one way to revitalize a tech website is to post laptop reviews. BUT! But do it differently. If you will look at YouTube - there are plenty of reviews for stuff like Dell XPS, Asus ROG Strix 2, Gigabyte Aero 15, MSI GE75 and other models, HOWEVER if you will look at all of those - they are reviews of "review samples", receiving "review sample" imposes a restriction on reviewer such as "do not change thermal paste". And thermal paste is a VERY BIG DEAL when it comes to laptops since MOST of them ship with poor paste which, combined with subpar heatsinks, will cause easy thermal throttle of CPU. And loud fan noise. So, a unique way of reviewing each NEW laptop would be to BUY it for your own money and not only do stuff like run usual game benchmarks and display benchmarks and say "the OLED display looks awesome" but also do extensive thermal tests. For example, using stock paste, then using Gelid GC Extreme or Kingpin kPx (and mention to users that the pastes like these are better for notebooks because of the fact that most notebooks have low, uneven pressure of heatsink plate and the thick pastes like that allow to compensate for this better than something like Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut), then end up with liquid metal to show the maximum achievable cooling capacity. Then perhaps test it with few hardware cooling modifications like extra holes added where it would matter and sealing some gaps or adding more air channels using strips of foam ;-)
Most review videos on channels like Jarrod's Tech, BOBofAllTrades, Dave2D and review sites like Notebookcheck NEVER do that because like I said, you cannot modify free "review samples" which you must send back to manufacturer or return too many such items to the store like Amazon or Costco (they will ban you), BUT a site with a good investor could just buy all of these for unique thermal tests (and then keep them for future tests or give away to readers), until site will get enough profit to do that using money earned from user traffic and subs.

Hmm... Maybe I should pitch this idea to TechPowerUp or some other site ;-) Or start my own channel some time later ;-)
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meerkt
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:14 am

JohnC wrote:
using stock paste, then using Gelid GC Extreme or Kingpin kPx


Gaining access to the heatsinks in laptops is far from trivial, it's definitely not "user serviceable". So I don't think it would be relevant to 99.99% of the users.
I suspect not even 0.01% of the users HERE open up their new laptops to change paste.

(Not that it wouldn't be interesting. :))
Last edited by meerkt on Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
barich
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:24 am

meerkt wrote:
JohnC wrote:
using stock paste, then using Gelid GC Extreme or Kingpin kPx


Gaining access to the heatsinks in laptops is far from trivial, it's definitely not "user serviceable". So I don't think it would be relevant to 99.99% of the users.
I suspect not even 0.01% of the users HERE open up their new laptops to change paste.


That greatly depends on which laptop you buy. I generally buy ThinkPads, and even on my current X1 Carbon, which is very thin, the bottom cover is easily removed with 7 screws and you have access to all of the internals. Removing the HSF is another four screws and a ribbon cable.

That said, I don't necessarily agree that poorly applied thermal paste is as big of a problem as the previous poster stated, but I'd never buy a laptop that's, for example, glued together. Out of warranty, I want to be able to fix any problems myself.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:14 am

Buying review hardware is no way to make a viable website. I agree it's different, but is it different in a way that people actually want to visit? You don't just have to make up for your time investment, now you've got to make back the money put into the notebook. It seems like a big financial loss to me when we're talking about buying laptops worth actually owning.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
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meerkt
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:22 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Buying review hardware is no way to make a viable website.
Different audience, but I think Rtings buy on their own all their review TVs, including the 6 units for the long-term comparative OLED burn-in test.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:33 am

I'm frankly astonished that RTings exists. The only two revenue streams (according to their "about us" page) are donations/subscriptions and affiliate links. No ads, no manufacturer-supplied review units, even their YouTube videos play without pre-roll ads. Without some sort of benevolent investor I can't figure out how they make any money.

Clearly they're the exception, not the rule, if they're even remotely self-sufficient.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Twittering away the day at @TVsBen
 
Pagey
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:08 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
I'm frankly astonished that RTings exists. The only two revenue streams (according to their "about us" page) are donations/subscriptions and affiliate links. No ads, no manufacturer-supplied review units, even their YouTube videos play without pre-roll ads. Without some sort of benevolent investor I can't figure out how they make any money.

Clearly they're the exception, not the rule, if they're even remotely self-sufficient.


That's a damned good point. I've often wondered the same thing. All of those higher-end TVs (e.g., LG OLED, Sony OLED, Samsung Q series, Vizio P series) are NOT cheap (I personally have butthurt every time I even ponder the notion of spending $1,000 or more for a glorified display device), and they buy them just to review them. I wonder if they sell the ones that are not kept for long term tests (e.g., OLED burn in) to recoup some of the costs. But, even doing that, I would imagine you could only recover 50-75% of the original retail price paid.
 
meerkt
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:01 am

In some cases at least they've kept TVs around, because they were retested with updated firmware weeks or months after the initial review.
 
Buub
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:49 pm

Srsly_Bro wrote:
Yan wrote:
Srsly_Bro wrote:
I hope Renee doesn't think that we are upset and lashing out that it somehow has anything to do with her gender.

Gerbils haven't been shy about what's upsetting them. They've mentioned at least 16 specific problems with the site, as well as general disapproval, in reaction to her introductory post. Nobody has said anything about her sex.

Compared to other Web sites, TR is remarkably civilised.


I agree with your points. In the modern era, it's easier for people to assume they are being targeted for a specific reason and turn blame than it is to accept that there is something of issue.

Yet you appear to be manufacturing a point of contention that was never previously mentioned by anyone. How is that helpful?
 
Yan
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:07 pm

Buub wrote:
Yet you appear to be manufacturing a point of contention that was never previously mentioned by anyone. How is that helpful?

I think that Srsly_Bro is right.

Sweatshopking is surely correct when he says that "Renee was shocked and hurt by the reaction she received here", and it's easier (and natural) for her to think that we don't like her personally for some reason, rather than believe the actual reasons, namely:

- she doesn't write very well;
- she obviously doesn't know much about PC hardware;
- she wrote her first post without knowing anything about her public and caused considerable offence.

Edit: In the article Contribute to TechReport, the section "HOW TO ANNOY US" is a disaster. It should never have been posted.
 
Pagey
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Re: Something's different...

Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:57 am

Yan wrote:
Buub wrote:
Yet you appear to be manufacturing a point of contention that was never previously mentioned by anyone. How is that helpful?



Edit: In the article Contribute to TechReport, the section "HOW TO ANNOY US" is a disaster. It should never have been posted.


+1 to this. It could/should have just as easily been titled "We're Pretentious Douchebags That Won't Listen To You Anyway". Sorry, but to quote Chekov: perhaps you know Russian epic, Cinderella. If shoe fits, wear it.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Something's different...

Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:58 am

I just love Shakespeare in the original Klingon.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Twittering away the day at @TVsBen
 
Pagey
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Re: Something's different...

Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:12 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
I just love Shakespeare in the original Klingon.


We need breathing room!

Earth, Hitler, 1938.
 
Srsly_Bro
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Re: Something's different...

Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:26 am

Yan wrote:
Buub wrote:
Yet you appear to be manufacturing a point of contention that was never previously mentioned by anyone. How is that helpful?

I think that Srsly_Bro is right.

Sweatshopking is surely correct when he says that "Renee was shocked and hurt by the reaction she received here", and it's easier (and natural) for her to think that we don't like her personally for some reason, rather than believe the actual reasons, namely:

- she doesn't write very well;
- she obviously doesn't know much about PC hardware;
- she wrote her first post without knowing anything about her public and caused considerable offence.

Edit: In the article Contribute to TechReport, the section "HOW TO ANNOY US" is a disaster. It should never have been posted.


Thank you. And I am right. It isn't about Renee personally. She took it that way. It's easier to say ," they just don't like me." And give up. As a young person, this mentality is common because it's all about feel good vibes and those don't solve the problem.

It's also narcissistic, by thinking it's about the person rather than the issue. In the modern high self esteem, everyone is perfect world, I can't blame her for the narcissism. I can blame her for not seeking alternatives and going straight to ego. This is the core reason why she doesn't feel welcome. She made it about her, rather than the site's interest.

PS. If she reads this, I'll be surprised. I'd wager her head is in the sand and she's blamed the mean nerds for picking on her.
 
Srsly_Bro
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Re: Something's different...

Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:26 am

Double post
Last edited by Srsly_Bro on Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Yan
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Re: Something's different...

Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:58 pm

Pagey wrote:
Sorry, but to quote Chekov

Pavel or Anton? ;-)
 
Concupiscence
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Re: Something's different...

Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:56 pm

Insulting the new editor in chief and minimizing her capabilities and contributions is a bad look, gang. I'm out of this thread and not looking back. Anybody who wants to reach me can PM.
Work: Core i9 7940x, 32 gigs RAM, RX Vega 56 + GTX Titan Xm, Win10 Pro + Xubuntu 18.04
Media: Ryzen 7 1700, 16 gigs RAM, Radeon R9 Fury, Win10 Pro
Tinker: Xeon E5-4640, 32 gigs ECC RAM, GTX 750 Ti, Slackware 14.2

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JohnC
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Re: Something's different...

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:51 pm

meerkt wrote:
JohnC wrote:
using stock paste, then using Gelid GC Extreme or Kingpin kPx


Gaining access to the heatsinks in laptops is far from trivial, it's definitely not "user serviceable". So I don't think it would be relevant to 99.99% of the users.
I suspect not even 0.01% of the users HERE open up their new laptops to change paste.

(Not that it wouldn't be interesting. :))

First of all, a 2-3 active old users HERE are irrelevant. The goal of any business is to expand and attract a new users. And you just cannot do this unless you are actively trying to post unique content before anyone else (in case of websites like hardware review ones).

Second, thanks for sharing your assumption about heatsinks in laptops being "not user serviceable" or what you think about relevance of repasting to users in general, but it is wrong.
Let me give you a little history: I used to do minor laptop repair (at a private shop) for a living some time ago. I quit doing that but I still help friends/relatives with their laptops and spend a lot of time on various subreddits, Notebookreview forums, laptop manufacturer forums and similar places. And there is a HUGE amount of people who do a repaste to their laptops (and other electronics, like gaming consoles), even people who have never done this before, even using liquid metal and even on abominations like new Alienware m15 r2, Asus Triton 500 or MSI GS65 with the flipped motherboard on them. Why? Because it is still NECESSARY to do if you want to prevent triggering thermal throttle point or just want to have less noise from the tiny high-RPM fans on most modern laptops, especially on thin laptops, regardless of their price - from cheap Dell G5 (which you can find for less than $1000 on Dell Outlet even with 6-core 8750h and very decent 1660ti GPU enough to play most multiplayer FPS games at highest settings) to overpriced stuff like Alienware m15 r2 or Gigabyte Aero 15, laptops which can be configured with OLED displays and can cost around $3000 at max config and which still use junky thermal paste which dries up very quickly and has poor thermal conductivity. Some people do it just for bragging rights, some do it out of boredom. The point is, they do it. Go read MSI, Asus, Alienware and Dell subreddits, you will see plenty of posts by many users. Same goes for official forums for these brands.
I ESPECIALLY suggest reading about new Dell XPS on these subreddits or forums - a total disaster in terms of cooling which was mentioned even in review on site like Notebookcheck (they still had to give it a high review score because they receive free review samples from Dell and cannot be overly critical since Dell might stop sending them anything). And providing detailed step-by-step instructions on how to repaste or do additional modifications will allow even more people to do that, people who were afraid to do it because they could not find any guides and people who would share the link to your site with other people after successfully doing that.

derFunkenstein wrote:
Buying review hardware is no way to make a viable website. I agree it's different, but is it different in a way that people actually want to visit? You don't just have to make up for your time investment, now you've got to make back the money put into the notebook. It seems like a big financial loss to me when we're talking about buying laptops worth actually owning.

Maybe. Or maybe not. Why not give it a try first? Or is it better to regurgitate same exact content that a lot of other sites posted (using "review samples" which were provided to DOZENS of other reviewers at the same time and which put certain restrictions on reviewers) and get few pennies from a person who, say, accidentally chose your site even though he could get same content from dozen of other sites? ;-)

Of course, this is up to each site owner to decide - whether they want to expand by providing unique content or by letting the site slowly wither down. And judging by the fact that TR still doesn't have:
- reviews for latest Nvidia "Super" cards (excuses do not matter, all cards and extra personnel needed to run benchmarks and compile data and put the data in readable format could've been already made available with some extra financial investment)
- reviews for latest AMD cards (see above before making excuses)
- no job offers for paid staff, only laughable offers for "guest editors" with "exposure" as payment (I know some artists who did work like creating backgrounds/icons/art for some streamers on Twitch, one of the worst way to insult them as a streamer is to tell them "draw this stuff for me, I will not pay you but I will give you exposure through my viewers")
- an owner who would not be ashamed to introduce himself
I already know where this site owners stand ;-) And my example in previous post was not targeted towards TR but was an example of providing genuinely unique and useful content in general.
Gifter of Nvidia Titans and countless Twitch donation extraordinaire, nothing makes me more happy in life than randomly helping random people
 
Yan
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Re: Something's different...

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:00 pm

JohnC wrote:
I ESPECIALLY suggest reading about new Dell XPS on these subreddits or forums - a total disaster in terms of cooling which was mentioned even in review on site like Notebookcheck (they still had to give it a high review score because they receive free review samples from Dell and cannot be overly critical since Dell might stop sending them anything).

Which notebook review site would you recommend?
 
JohnC
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Re: Something's different...

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:36 am

Yan wrote:
JohnC wrote:
I ESPECIALLY suggest reading about new Dell XPS on these subreddits or forums - a total disaster in terms of cooling which was mentioned even in review on site like Notebookcheck (they still had to give it a high review score because they receive free review samples from Dell and cannot be overly critical since Dell might stop sending them anything).

Which notebook review site would you recommend?

Reddit subreddits. Each brand has it's own, Alienware, Dell, MSI, Lenovo, Gigabyte and others. Just don't go to non-brand subreddits like "suggestalaptop" and similar, they are filled with people who will recommend you stuff using affiliate links ;-) Seriously, if you're interested to read about actual user experience - this is the best place, especially when searching for results of repaste or customer support experience or issues like fragile plastic hinge mounts on some MSI models or unreliable VRMs on Alienware 51m models and such.

Aside from Reddit there are some YouTube reviewers who are useful if you want to see the interior or exterior of laptops or see how to repaste them. Most of video reviews are useless because once again, there is a bias in those where a review sample provided by manufacturer is being reviewed. Some reviewers like BOBofAllTrades do buy laptops for their own money for testing (he does not like to use a lot of games for testing, though, and he still cannot afford buying everything), but even he has to sell most of stuff he buys so he cannot retest same laptop if, for example, Nvidia has released new driver with better performance or laptop manufacturer released new BIOS which changes power limit for CPU or adjusts fan speed.

Notebookreview forums are also somewhat useful but the only active parts there are the Alienware section, the MSI section and Sager/Clevo section. The whole forum has became less active over time.

I would not honestly recommend Notebookcheck site for anything, especially for any kind of comparisons like this one:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/GeForce-R ... 598.0.html
They use different laptops with different configurations and different cooling system and different driver versions in these comparisons so their comparisons are never accurate and they are not allowed to modify or repaste review samples so you will never know the maximum capability of the tested units and there will always be a bias in their reviews even if they will confirm some issues (for example they still gave a 90% to latest Dell XPS despite the widespread reports of overheating and a poor performance in general from both CPU and Nvidia GPU).
Gifter of Nvidia Titans and countless Twitch donation extraordinaire, nothing makes me more happy in life than randomly helping random people
 
Srsly_Bro
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Re: Something's different...

Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:50 am

Concupiscence wrote:
Insulting the new editor in chief and minimizing her capabilities and contributions is a bad look, gang. I'm out of this thread and not looking back. Anybody who wants to reach me can PM.


Are you referring to the analysis of her attitude or the truthfulness of her tech knowledge?

Running away and not discussing and addressing issues is the reason everyone is upset. Then you do it. I'm here for discussions, even if I don't agree with people, I don't run back to the Kool aid pitcher for refills.

Ok, bro. You live your life your way.
 
fyo
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Re: Something's different...

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:36 am

Pagey wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
I'm frankly astonished that RTings exists. The only two revenue streams (according to their "about us" page) are donations/subscriptions and affiliate links. No ads, no manufacturer-supplied review units, even their YouTube videos play without pre-roll ads. Without some sort of benevolent investor I can't figure out how they make any money.

Clearly they're the exception, not the rule, if they're even remotely self-sufficient.


That's a damned good point. I've often wondered the same thing. All of those higher-end TVs (e.g., LG OLED, Sony OLED, Samsung Q series, Vizio P series) are NOT cheap (I personally have butthurt every time I even ponder the notion of spending $1,000 or more for a glorified display device), and they buy them just to review them. I wonder if they sell the ones that are not kept for long term tests (e.g., OLED burn in) to recoup some of the costs. But, even doing that, I would imagine you could only recover 50-75% of the original retail price paid.


The claim on their about page is that they keep all review units until discontinued and then sell them "locally". Assuming they take good care of the units, they should be practically "as new". Getting good prices initially on Amazon (which is the claimed acquisition method) would seem to be critical in order to minimize losses.

Their main source of revenue is likely their Amazon affiliate linking.

Affiliate links are certainly a valid and generally accepted revenue and one that TR could employ more widely. I'm not sure exactly how often TR has used affiliate links, but Short Bread I think does so. It doesn't seem like ordination reviews do, though. The recent Logitech keyboard review, for example, could have easily included a labeled affiliate link at either end of the article. (It does have the outbound link spam that has never been documented to affect SEO, though, so I guess that's something...)
 
simbant
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Re: Something's different...

Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:14 pm

Down the drains I guess

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