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DragonDaddyBear
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:01 am

After thinking about this for a few days what really irritates me is I feel like many of us have a somewhat vested interest in this site succeeding. Internet sites like this are a strange beast. The consumers also produce content that drives additional traffic. It's a feedback loop. The site produces content, we produce comments, that produce more comments, etc. that then drives more traffic. I visit multiple times a day just to read comments in threads (the EV one has been enlightening). Some of you (Waco, JBI, Ned to name a few) comment all the time. I enjoy learning from you all. So, in addition to putting in dollars as subscribers, we put in time. Some put in a lot of time.

TR would have dried up a long time ago without the constant feeding in the forums and the volunteering of reviews (thank you for those that did!), or the BBQ's (thank you Fish). There is no community without the business. There is no business without the community. I'm sure their plan is to change this by driving more traffic from search results, but they would be far more successful if they just keep the community happy and learn to communicate a lot better.
 
arunphilip
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:14 am

dashbarron wrote:
The TR BBQ isn't a far drive for me and I'm debating it, but I just feel so depressed over this whole business.

Go. How would you feel if you found out next year there wasn't one?
 
drfish
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:17 am

dashbarron wrote:
I feel really bad for this site. I don't comment and post much, but I read a lot of the content and visit the forums frequently. This is one of my 3 morning stops. I feel worse for JBI, Ned, and all the other better and active regulars than me who are probably wrenching inside but nicer to be brave for the lesser gerbils.

The TR BBQ isn't a far drive for me and I'm debating it, but I just feel so depressed over this whole business.

Who thought I'd be so attached to a website, the staff, and what it used to be.


We're still here, man. :) The redesign sucks (for now) and the introduction left much to be desired (should be addressed soon) but the site's not dead. The BBQ is happening just like it always has and it'll be a mix of community/family as well as old staff and maybe new staff, we'll see. We're all still hanging out in the forums un-messed-around with. FYI, John is buying some SUPER cards to send to Zak for his Navi review. That simply would not be happening under different circumstances. Give it a chance, that's all I'm doing.
TR BBQ XVI is happening 8/10/19.
 
DancinJack
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:26 am

Redocbew wrote:
meerkt wrote:
Redocbew wrote:
disabling javascript isn't a realistic use case these days

I don't see why. phpBB works perfectly fine.


... o... k. Come to think of it, haven't we talked about this before?

Oh, and I full-quoted JUST TO PISS YOU OFF!

If you're speaking to the "have we talked about meerkt not using JS in a modern web enviro?", then yes yes we have. In a few different threads i think. I honestly can't imagine what the web looks like to meerkt. It's all good though. People live how they want and I'm all for that.
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SecretMaster
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:34 am

drfish wrote:
FYI, John is buying some SUPER cards to send to Zak for his Navi review. That simply would not be happening under different circumstances. Give it a chance, that's all I'm doing.


That's another good sign IMO. People might not like the SEO strategy and what might be produced as a result of it, but at least they are also throwing some $$$ towards the core of TR's strength.
 
tanker27
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:19 am

drfish wrote:
Give it a chance, that's all I'm doing.


And that's the best advice to everyone; Old gerbils, newer gerbils, lurkers, etc.

The only part that worries me is a flood of new forum users. While not bad per se but it always invites fringe users who like to do nothing more than cause troubles.
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sweatshopking
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:24 am

fringe users will come, and some of us weirdos stick around and eventually become (somewhat) useful members (depending who you ask). Site does look different, but it'll improve. I wish the rollout had gone better as there is actually a lot to continue to be positive about with this site.
 
Sargent Duck
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:26 am

dashbarron wrote:
The TR BBQ isn't a far drive for me and I'm debating it, but I just feel so depressed over this whole business.

Who thought I'd be so attached to a website, the staff, and what it used to be.


I'd absolutely go, it could be the last one. I'd love to go if I could, but it's a bit of a drive for me.
No matter how bad the new homepage sucks or how bungled the new management is...

To all the original writers/contributors and volunteers, please know that I have nothing but the deepest love for you and the work you've done.
 
cygnus1
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:27 am

Sargent Duck wrote:
To all the staff, volunteers, writers, editors, business guys, admins, web designers and any other positions I haven't mentioned,

Thank You.

Thank you for all the hard work and sacrifice you've put in.
Thank you for the amazing reviews that were written
Thank you for the amazing community you fostered
Thank you DrFish for the communication and helping to keep us sane.
Thank you for making TR such a great place to come, dang-nabbit!

Thank you.

*Sniff* I'm not crying! You're crying!


Same. (Definitely have gotten a little emotional on this thread, *sniffle, sniffle*)
 
sweatshopking
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:29 am

I'd like to go too, but it's a 3k drive, and my wife needs me around. I told Fish to move the lake but he refuses. so petty and unreasonable
 
continuum
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:37 am

If we can get the information density fixed - a “compact” or “dense” mode or something, that would be a huge help. The old theme colors back would be be at least less generic and less eye-searing too, not to mention the lower APL would be easier on batteries on mobile devices.

As far as forum back-ends, I have administered several. Ars uses a truly ancient, very heavily customized phpBB backend that you wouldn’t want to deploy in any new build, Invision I’ve at least used modern builds and is lower in density but less ancient, and Discourse is... ugh. That said I have by far the least experience with Discourse, and perhaps an appropriately customized Discourse setup would be better.
 
JustAnEngineer
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:40 am

sweatshopking wrote:
I'd like to go to the TR BBQ too, but it's a 3k drive...
3 km is a good walk. :wink:
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meerkt
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:41 am

(If no one objects, and a mod/admin feels inclined, here's a suggested sidetrack post list to move to a new thread, tentatively dubbed "Forum software (and JavaScript)":
Redocbew 736 excession 774 776 779 781 Mr Bill 782 784 785 788 789 FireGryphon 790 791 795 796 799 Captain Ned 800 tanker27 811 DancinJack 817
)
 
FireGryphon
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:08 am

meerkt wrote:
(If no one objects, and a mod/admin feels inclined, here's a suggested sidetrack post list to move to a new thread, tentatively dubbed "Forum software (and JavaScript)":
Redocbew 736 excession 774 776 779 781 Mr Bill 782 784 785 788 789 FireGryphon 790 791 795 796 799 Captain Ned 800 tanker27 811 DancinJack 817
)


Your attributions are incorrect in large part and you missed a lot, but I appreciate your attention to organization to detail. Good show.
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The Egg
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:16 am

drfish wrote:
dashbarron wrote:
I feel really bad for this site. I don't comment and post much, but I read a lot of the content and visit the forums frequently. This is one of my 3 morning stops. I feel worse for JBI, Ned, and all the other better and active regulars than me who are probably wrenching inside but nicer to be brave for the lesser gerbils.
The TR BBQ isn't a far drive for me and I'm debating it, but I just feel so depressed over this whole business.
Who thought I'd be so attached to a website, the staff, and what it used to be.

We're still here, man. :) The redesign sucks (for now) and the introduction left much to be desired (should be addressed soon) but the site's not dead. The BBQ is happening just like it always has and it'll be a mix of community/family as well as old staff and maybe new staff, we'll see. We're all still hanging out in the forums un-messed-around with. FYI, John is buying some SUPER cards to send to Zak for his Navi review. That simply would not be happening under different circumstances. Give it a chance, that's all I'm doing.

I still haven't had the chance to really do a full assessment, but I will say this:


@TR Community
Blasting the new ownership with negativity needs to stop. They clearly did very little homework on the site, and shot from the hip on the re-design, but it's also in their best interests for TR to succeed. If the only interaction with the community is a tidal-wave of negativity, they're going to very quickly stop listening. It's just human nature. As it stands right now, they seem to be at least moderately receptive and are trying to make fixes. I can see improvements/fixes happening, and the forums have been left entirely alone. That's really about the best you can ask for considering the circumstances.

I also feel that Drfish's approach is hands-down the best way to do it. Keep a list of changes/fixes to be made, prioritize them, and then funnel that list over to the powers that be. This is really the only way it's going to work. Have a little bit of patience and we'll see where it goes.
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:24 am

meerkt wrote:
(If no one objects, and a mod/admin feels inclined, here's a suggested sidetrack post list to move to a new thread, tentatively dubbed "Forum software (and JavaScript)":
Redocbew 736 excession 774 776 779 781 Mr Bill 782 784 785 788 789 FireGryphon 790 791 795 796 799 Captain Ned 800 tanker27 811 DancinJack 817
)

Sidetracks are fundamental to the zeitgeist of this place.
Imagine a world with no hypothetical questions.
 
tanker27
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:32 am

The Egg wrote:

@TR Community
Blasting the new ownership with negativity needs to stop.


Nope. Sugar coating anything doesn't help anyone. The new owners need to understand that they were injecting themselves (for a good reason) into a thriving community. They made a terrible change and didn't do a proper hand offs or even a freaking S-I-M-P-L-E introduction before making a 180.

In a Fortune 500 company, corporate world, or any Business really you do not do this.
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The Egg
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:02 am

tanker27 wrote:
The Egg wrote:
@TR Community
Blasting the new ownership with negativity needs to stop.

Nope. Sugar coating anything doesn't help anyone. The new owners need to understand that they were injecting themselves (for a good reason) into a thriving community. They made a terrible change and didn't do a proper hand offs or even a freaking S-I-M-P-L-E introduction before making a 180.

In a Fortune 500 company, corporate world, or any Business really you do not do this.

It doesn't look like anyone's sugarcoating anything. You DO need to make it clear that you're not happy, but I think they've gotten the point now, and it's time to start fixing things and developing a plan. We want the community to be included in all of that, but if you keep ragging on someone, eventually they just stop listening. Folks need to realize that we don't hold any of the chips here.
 
Usacomp2k3
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:14 am

The Egg wrote:
It doesn't look like anyone's sugarcoating anything. You DO need to make it clear that you're not happy, but I think they've gotten the point now, and it's time to start fixing things and developing a plan. We want the community to be included in all of that, but if you keep ragging on someone, eventually they just stop listening. Folks need to realize that we don't hold any of the chips here.

The recent "raging" has been first reactions from the more weekly visitors who are seeing it for the first-time. I think most of us who vented day1 have cooled off.
 
Rand
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:23 am

As negative as I am on this whole thing we should at least give them a chance to fix the new UI.
The staff is still intact, the new owners are providing the money to keep content flowing (kinda needed to save this site!), if they can start providing solutions to some of their initial screwups a workable site out of the redesign is possible.

First impressions were awful, but if their willing to listen and work with the staff then things can be worked out. I have no idea of that's the case but let's wait and see before completely giving up.
 
tanker27
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:00 pm

The Egg wrote:
......but I think they've gotten the point now, and it's time to start fixing things and developing a plan.


Have they really? 5 Calendar days have passed and they still haven't made an introduction. And they certainly haven't laid out their plan and/or vision!
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drfish
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:10 pm

tanker27 wrote:
The Egg wrote:
......but I think they've gotten the point now, and it's time to start fixing things and developing a plan.


Have they really? 5 Calendar days have passed and they still haven't made an introduction. And they certainly haven't laid out their plan and/or vision!


No comment on the lack of introduction for now. But there's a reasonable explanation for why more of the items from the first post haven't been implement yet, it's just not my place to share it. No one has said they can't or won't make the changes we're all looking for. It's just a matter of bad timing all around.
TR BBQ XVI is happening 8/10/19.
 
tanker27
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:48 pm

drfish, none of that or what I have said is directed at you or any others. It's primarily directed at the new overlords.!
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drfish
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:04 pm

tanker27 wrote:
drfish, none of that or what I have said is directed at you or any others. It's primarily directed at the new overlords.!


I get it, just speaking up while they are finding their voice. :)
TR BBQ XVI is happening 8/10/19.
 
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:25 pm

SecretMaster wrote:
drfish wrote:
FYI, John is buying some SUPER cards to send to Zak for his Navi review. That simply would not be happening under different circumstances. Give it a chance, that's all I'm doing.


That's another good sign IMO. People might not like the SEO strategy and what might be produced as a result of it, but at least they are also throwing some $$$ towards the core of TR's strength.
This is good news. Thanks drfish for letting us know.
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Sargent Duck
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:44 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
Sidetracks are fundamental to the zeitgeist of this place.[/color]


The TR community wouldn't be TR without sidetracking
No matter how bad the new homepage sucks or how bungled the new management is...

To all the original writers/contributors and volunteers, please know that I have nothing but the deepest love for you and the work you've done.
 
sweatshopking
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:07 pm

Yeah, fish is right.
There is a good reason for why things are on hold, but they'll be moving early next week again. Depending on how things go I may even write more frequently, SO YOU CAN START GETTING EXCITED!
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:08 pm

I refuse.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
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Concupiscence
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:08 pm

I'll let bygones be bygones. Let's just fix the interface, make introductions, and forge a path ahead. Sound good?
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Meadows
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Re: Something's different...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:42 pm

Here's the million dollar design question for the sufficiently bored among you.

https://imgur.com/a/on0xJBO

How does one "recent" column, and a Mini-Me "recentier" column right next to it, help anyone in particular?

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