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Waco
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Goodbye Battle.net -

Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:25 pm

The account deletion server/website keeps crashing, but once it's actually up again, I'm deleting my Battle.net account along with all of the rights to the games I own on it. This whole controversy with China was the final straw.

I won't rehash the entire thing here, but basically, Blizzard sided with China and banned a pro Hearthstone player (from HK) and the two associated casters from the GrandMasters, took away his prize money, and banned him for a year over a very innocuous statement showing support for Hong Kong. They quoted a rule for the dismissal that could be applied to essentially anyone. The Chinese arm of Blizzard then stated that it would always "defend the pride of our country". Blizzard's official channel. There are plenty of sources to read more, just Google "Blizzard".

I'm done with them. Goodbye hundreds of hours of WoW, WCIII, SC, SC2, and DIII. You will be missed.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:20 pm

Since HK's local government is now completely sold out to / dominated by mainland china, I don't see how there could be any hope for those HKers attempting to maintain the freedoms to which they became accustomed under british rule. Not even a civil war attempt seems possible (setting aside feasibility).
 
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:20 pm

The crazy thing is that the two casters had nothing to do with the guys statement, they had no idea it was coming and literally ducked on camera when it happened.

It didn't matter. They were fired too.

Whether or not the statement is "wrong" those guys were completely innocent.

They are being collectively punished anyway.

That's how insane and totalitarian this is: it doesn't matter what anyone did or what anyone thinks: you are guilty by proximity.

They literally don't even care what you do or even privately think: you will fear.

That's the point.

Sick.

Screw Blizzard. It was far enough already, and this is far beyond that.
 
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:12 am

I wasn't very invested in my account, nothing since the first part of SC2, but yeah, I canned my account a couple days ago. Just pathetic. The cancellation process is crap too, a photo ID, really? Screw you guys. :evil:
 
tanker27
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:47 am

This thread should probably be in R&P.

Anyways, yes a little heavy handed. But rules are rules. He had enough Twitch followers that he could have made the statement on a twitch stream and not incur the penalty. But he used a Blizzard platform for his platform. I don't like it but it is what it is. Oh an I stand by HK protesters!

(The'll be a lot of protests at Blizzcon this year. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard cancels. It would be in their best interest to say or do something before the event or it'll be one ugly place. Either way whatever they decide to do it'll be just as heavy handed.)

That being said you'd have to ditch a lot more than just Blizzard. All those products in your house, your iPhone, your Android phone, etc. etc. guess where they are made? Must not upset the cash cow.

It's weird though. As I sat in a college dorm room in 1997 and watched the hand off of HK from the UK to China and all its pageantry one British commenter remarked that there were protests by the young people of HK that they didnt want the UK to leave. And they most certainly didn't want China to rule it. It's like they knew what was to come! Fast forward two decades plus and we actually see it.

I don't know how far protesters are willing to take it but it may actually get worse.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:38 am

tanker27 wrote:
This thread should probably be in R&P.


I agree, but I posted what I did before anyway because, well, where we are now with this site.... I kinda figured it didn't matter for much anymore.

But yes, you're right.

tanker27 wrote:
Anyways, yes a little heavy handed. But rules are rules.


If it was just the guy who did it, I could relate to that.

When they fire the casters too, who even went to the extreme of ducking on camera to visually indicate they weren't endorsing what was happening...

...what rule did they break? What did they do?

That sealed it for me. When complete obsequiousness like that, unto the literal act of physically lowering oneself, does nothing: Where's the argument?

There isn't one. It's FEAR.
 
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:53 am

Glorious wrote:
If it was just the guy who did it, I could relate to that.

When they fire the casters too, who even went to the extreme of ducking on camera to visually indicate they weren't endorsing what was happening...

...what rule did they break? What did they do?

That sealed it for me. When complete obsequiousness like that, unto the literal act of physically lowering oneself, does nothing: Where's the argument?

There isn't one. It's FEAR.


Agreed. I can't defend the other casters. :(
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:12 am

drfish wrote:
The cancellation process is crap too, a photo ID, really? Screw you guys. :evil:

Anything to stem the tide.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:35 am

This whole controversy is just symptoms of the growing pains that China has been experiencing in the past decade. The current government fears a repeat of the Qing Dyantsy's twilight years. China has a long history of massive upheavals and civil wars.
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Waco
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:39 am

The casters were egging him on, but regardless, it's a BS move. Sure, rules are rules, but the rule they quoted could be applied to literally anything and the motivation behind it is the worst part.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:14 pm

Krogoth wrote:
This whole controversy is just symptoms of the growing pains that China has been experiencing in the past decade. The current government fears a repeat of the Qing Dyantsy's twilight years. China has a long history of massive upheavals and civil wars.


You're nuts.

The mainland vs. HK thing shores up the mainland government, because it's strictly a nationalistic question. It's easy: One side has a bunch of Chinese people talking about "China", the other side is waving the flags of China's colonizers and being egged on by a bunch of overseas non-Chinese.

China feels so confident of its power that it no longer has any compunctions about blatantly throwing around its economic might.

It felt so confident that it decided it would demand, publicly, that HK accept what it was already doing anyway: China doesn't need any "extradition" law (which was what started this). No, not-at-all, irrefutably: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_ ... ppearances

Yes, they completely "got away with it".

The difference now is that the Mainland wanted to essentially humiliate HK by forcing them into changing their laws and making -THEM- say "this is fine."

It already was fine, though, the Chinese factually did whenever they wanted and there wasn't anything anyone could do about it, but that wasn't still wasn't enough.

---

I do not believe that this controversy is remotely weakening China's government domestically. On the contrary, if anything, it is a deliberate (and very successful!) attempt to divert attention away from internal problems, like corruption and economic uncertainty, towards a very, VERY easy platform:

"Look! Those foreigners keep meddling in our business!"

Which, yes, is really unpopular in general, and particularly unpopular with the Chinese. For Pete's sake, YOU EVEN MENTIONED the Qing Dynasty---FOREIGNERS, DUDE, FOREIGNERS. And when it collapsed towards the end, REALLY FOREIGN foreigners [westerners] repeatedly humiliated the Chinese while it was happening.

That's -WHY- "Hong Kong" is a thing. That flag they are waving now in protests sometimes? It first waved over that area because the Chinese lost a war over the question of "you must buy our narcotics."

Yes. Seriously.
 
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:25 pm

Glorious wrote:
I do not believe that this controversy is remotely weakening China's government domestically. On the contrary, if anything, it is a deliberate (and very successful!) attempt to divert attention away from internal problems, like corruption and economic uncertainty, towards a very, VERY easy platform:

"Look! Those foreigners keep meddling in our business!"

Which, yes, is really unpopular in general, and particularly unpopular with the Chinese. For Pete's sake, YOU EVEN MENTIONED the Qing Dynasty---FOREIGNERS, DUDE, FOREIGNERS. And when it collapsed towards the end, REALLY FOREIGN foreigners [westerners] repeatedly humiliated the Chinese while it was happening.

That's -WHY- "Hong Kong" is a thing. That flag they are waving now in protests sometimes? It first waved over that area because the Chinese lost a war over the question of "you must buy our narcotics."

Yes. Seriously.

Now two boys have been found rubbing linseed oil into the school cormorant. Now some of you may feel that the cormorant does not play an important part in the life of the school, but I would remind you that it was presented to us by the corporation of the Town of Sudbury to commemorate Empire Day, when we try to remember the names of all those from the Sudbury area who so gallantly gave their lives to keep China British. So from now on, the cormorant is strictly OUT OF BOUNDS. Oh and Jenkins? Apparently your mother died this morning. Chaplain?
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:58 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
to keep China British


--This is directed at Krogoth, playing off of Ned's Monty Python bit--

If the Mainland "loses" on HK, that means China is indeed "kept" British--it is a victory for the westerners.

To a certain extent, "winning" isn't so good either. It means the issue is over, and it causes some complications with international finance (having HKs banks be nominally "western" as opposed to inevitable regime collaborators is beneficial in many ways).

So, basically, having this interminable low-level unrest be indefinite as well, hey, things are good! HK is nominally still "separate" for international finance etc..., the never-ending "Us vs. Them" keeps the mainland populace looking overseas as opposed to internally, and, -BONUS-, the mainland government is actually humiliating the westerners for once!

Look! China is STRONG, any western company that criticizes them apologizes or bans.

China doesn't take orders, it now gives them.

Whereas in living memory they weren't just literally OCCUPIED by Americans (yes! REALLY! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Marines), but when the US got run off by the Japanese, millions of Chinese were brutally murdered.

So, instead of US Marines beating coolies with swagger stickers (which is why, after witnessing such contemporary abuse, the medal-of-honor winning 22nd Commandant of the Marine Corps famously informally banned them as like his first action when achieving that office) and lording it over Chinese children to do their laundry, shoe-shining etc...

Now? The Chinese tell *US* what to do, and we immediately do it and thank them for the privilege and praise them.


Do you get it?

THEY DO!
 
Waco
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:10 pm

Got it deleted without giving them my ID. Apparently the SMS verification works *sometimes*.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:26 pm

Good on you. I was thinking of picking up Wow crack again, after 6 years of not playing, with my kids but I can't in good faith give them more money. They went too far with the punishment for what was morally the right thing done in a slightly unethical way (using Blizzards platform for politics).
 
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:44 am

I'm not saying you should undo your account removal but I guess they let him keep the money and cut the ban in half. The broadcasters also got their punishment cut in half (still excessive and essentially a career endeder).
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/10/ ... influence/
 
Waco
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:49 am

Nope. Hollow reversals from them don't change the original action or it's motivations.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:35 am

Waco wrote:
Nope. Hollow reversals from them don't change the original action or it's motivations.


Hollow? Oh come ON!? /facepalm

Now you look like you were just looking for an excuse. To err is human. RIGHT!? Haven't you ever had a kneejerk reaction to something that was wildly out of bounds? Blizzard's response (albeit well crafted, Kudos to their Communications department) was on point and completely explained their position.

the line:

Every Voice Matters, and we strongly encourage everyone in our community to share their viewpoints in the many places available to express themselves. However, the official broadcast needs to be about the tournament and to be a place where all are welcome. In support of that, we want to keep the official channels focused on the game


Shuts down every spin you could put on it. Whether right or wrong they will not stand by and let anyone use their platform as their own. And yes, that is the right thing to do. Even blitzchung acknowledges this in his own statement.

Look we all at times need a push to PYTOTBM (Major Pain reference). Just do it. Don't make excuses to justify it.
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Waco
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:50 am

tanker27 wrote:

Now you look like you were just looking for an excuse. To err is human. RIGHT!? Haven't you ever had a kneejerk reaction to something that was wildly out of bounds? Blizzard's response (albeit well crafted, Kudos to their Communications department) was on point and completely explained their position.

Blizzard isn't a single person, and their initial reaction was "oh **** don't piss off China". I don't go looking for excuses to throw away money; I will miss playing the games I paid for. I just don't care to support them after this.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:37 pm

And you know that for a fact how..........? (The don't piss off China comment)

No I believe you're entirely wrong about it. Maybe it wasn't a singular person but someone knew something like this could happen or else it wouldn't be a freaking rule! Obviously their first punishment was heavy handed. The second corrects it by stating in his play he did nothing wrong and was a fair competitor so he gets his winnings. The ban is the actual punishment for what he did. And really the ban isnt that bad. He ca't participate in the Grandmasters event. Well guess what, season is done. Now it starts all over. He can start to climb that ladder (local, regional, etc.) again and by the time the next Gamemasters event rolls around, which so happens to be almost seven months from now, he can participate.

As for the shoutcasters well that's a different story. Their ban is still heavy handed, when it was obvious they were trying to avoid implication.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:22 pm

tanker27 wrote:
And you know that for a fact how..........? (The don't piss off China comment)


Blizzard's Chinese account.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:27 pm

tanker27, in case you don't understand the context of Waco's comment, Blizzard said something very different in their Chinese language Public Relations.

They explicitly said that they were protecting "national dignity".

It's not a baseless conspiracy theory, and this kind of thing is very prevalent: Companies seem to think they can get away with saying one thing in English and another in Chinese.
 
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:14 pm

Glorious wrote:
tanker27, in case you don't understand the context of Waco's comment, Blizzard said something very different in their Chinese language Public Relations.

They explicitly said that they were protecting "national dignity".

It's not a baseless conspiracy theory, and this kind of thing is very prevalent: Companies seem to think they can get away with saying one thing in English and another in Chinese.
Really treading into R&P now, but yeah. This Blizzard ordeal came down at the same time the NBA is censoring itself, which includes (but is not limited to) kicking people out of NBA games for wearing "Free Hong Kong" shirts in the United States of America.

The kind of Chinese influence on the US worldwide market is becoming too significant to ignore.
On second thought, let's not go to TechReport. Tis a silly place.
 
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:22 pm

Link please.

I still stand by my comments. If you are going to "boycott" one company for something they had a rule against to begin with then you must do a deep introspection and get rid of everything Chinese/ Chinese made and further boycott any other companies that do business with China. Lest you become the Hypocrite.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:01 pm

tanker27 wrote:
I still stand by my comments. If you are going to "boycott" one company for something they had a rule against to begin with then you must do a deep introspection

++

Blizzard's unfortunately heavy-handed actions here pale into insignificance compared to a metric f-ton of wrong out there in the world, there are companies and governments committing atrocities against millions of innocent people on a daily and ongoing basis.

By all means, if you care to boycott, do -- and tell people about it until they're bored of you -- but at least be consistent and have nothing to do with those causing industrial scale death and suffering, slavery, and destruction. What's your smartphone?
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:40 pm

Have you heard of Google? :lol:

https://www.thegamer.com/blizzard-offic ... ity-china/

FWIW, Blizzard is reinstating the prize award and reduced his ban, but he still did a big no-no so China demands blood. https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/bl ... 203369240/

In a Chinese language-only message on its official social media, Blizzard stated that it would “resolutely safeguard [China’s] national dignity.”
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tanker27
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:16 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Have you heard of Google? :lol:


Come'on derfunk you know better than that. If you are going get all up in arms about something you best cite supporting evidence/proof. :D That's what's expected. 8)

Anyways I still stand by my comments. If you are going to blanket boycott Blizzard for this you best be doing the same for any other company that does business with China or your nothing more than a hypocrite.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:23 am

tanker27 wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
Have you heard of Google? :lol:

Come'on derfunk you know better than that. If you are going get all up in arms about something you best cite supporting evidence/proof. :D That's what's expected. 8)

While that's certainly true, it also makes sense to do a little research before taking a strong stance on a topic, to make sure you have all the facts.

tanker27 wrote:
Anyways I still stand by my comments. If you are going to blanket boycott Blizzard for this you best be doing the same for any other company that does business with China or your nothing more than a hypocrite.

I'm still not seeing how what Blizzard did is equivalent to what "any other company that does business with China" does. Sure, there are shades of grey... but this seems particularly egregious.
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Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:23 am

tanker27 wrote:
Link please.


Why would you even assume I'm making this up?

Are you completely unfamiliar with this sort of subject? This sort of thing happens all the time.

:roll:

tanker27 wrote:
I still stand by my comments. If you are going to "boycott" one company for something they had a rule against to begin with


Oh? You want a link?

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/blizzar ... tournament

Blizzard wrote:
In the tournament itself blitzchung *played* fair. We now believe he should receive his prizing.


Blizzard itself just said that he didn't break any rule that would deprive him of the prize, so you're now arguing that you know the rules better than the creator *AND* adjudicator of those very same rules.

They even reduced the suspension.

tanker27 wrote:
then you must do a deep introspection and get rid of everything Chinese/ Chinese made and further boycott any other companies that do business with China. Lest you become the Hypocrite.


Absolute nonsense. That's business. We don't need to boycott the economic output of an entire country to simply insist that American companies keep American customs outside of that country. China doesn't control Taiwan, and since this could just as easily happen here too, no, they don't (or shouldn't anyway) control us.

There's nothing hypocritical about it.

Topinio wrote:
Blizzard's unfortunately heavy-handed actions here pale into insignificance compared to a metric f-ton of wrong out there in the world, there are companies and governments committing atrocities against millions of innocent people on a daily and ongoing basis.


The backlash got results.

But thanks for "well there are a million of other ills, so why bother about any of them?" :roll:

Topinio wrote:
By all means, if you care to boycott, do -- and tell people about it until they're bored of you -- but at least be consistent and have nothing to do with those causing industrial scale death and suffering, slavery, and destruction. What's your smartphone?


If Techreport banned you for simply bringing attention to the human cost of the electronic industry, which they review, yes, I would absolutely be consistent.

I would never have been here in the first place, obviously, but thanks for your two cents.

Especially since, with all this bleeding heart business, you didn't seem to notice that

Blizzard is totally abusing the "safety" and "inclusivity" mantra to actually mean "don't offend an authoritarian regime that's shooting protesters in the streets."

Don't punch down? Ring a bell? You think it's less true with "don't shoot down"?

For chrissakes, they're even saying "Every Voice Matters". :roll:

tanker27 wrote:
Come'on derfunk you know better than that. If you are going get all up in arms about something you best cite supporting evidence/proof.


I'm serious: Are you honestly saying that you thought it was likely that I just made it up?

I'm kinda offended. :P

tanker27 wrote:
Anyways I still stand by my comments. If you are going to blanket boycott Blizzard for this you best be doing the same for any other company that does business with China or your nothing more than a hypocrite.


Again, international business is totally different than American companies ignoring American customs at the behest of foreign powers.

This is not even remotely difficult to understand, and this ridiculous schtick of "YOU HAVE TO DEMAND AUTARKY TO BE CONSISTENT" is just silly.
Last edited by Glorious on Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Goodbye Battle.net -

Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:25 am

I agree with tanker that it's what any other company does in China. Where my opinion diverges is that I think it's unacceptable.

In recent weeks we have this along with:

* The continuing saga of the NBA in China: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/spor ... china.html
* Apple doing all it can not to piss off China: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/al ... g-tim-cook

And who knows what's next. A global economy means global censorship.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Twittering away the day at @TVsBen

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