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Igor_Kavinski
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Could Google's Quantum Supremacy signal the end of encryption?

Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:37 pm

https://ai.googleblog.com/2019/10/quant ... mable.html

With this breakthrough, do you think that Big Brother will make encryption superfluous for the common man? It will create a world where the powerful have quantum cryptography to protect themselves and the little guy has his 4096-bit encryption that is broken in minutes by a quantum computer. Will we be looking at spending thousands of dollars to get a Quantum SSL certificate?
 
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Re: Could Google's Quantum Supremacy signal the end of encryption?

Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:26 pm

I think it is being over-hyped. A lab demo like this is a long way from practical application. Our encryption keys are still safe (for now).

There are even researchers disputing Google's claims: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsi ... ca915e142f
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The Egg
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Re: Could Google's Quantum Supremacy signal the end of encryption?

Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:47 pm

Isn't all of this predicated on a near-infinite number of password attempts being allowed, and zero delay between attempts? Seems this could be easily mitigated by either setting data to be automatically destroyed after X number of failed attempts, or by adding an ever-increasing cooldown period. Haven't iPhones had this for years?? Maybe I'm confused or missing something.
 
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Re: Could Google's Quantum Supremacy signal the end of encryption?

Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:53 pm

The Egg wrote:
Isn't all of this predicated on a near-infinite number of password attempts being allowed, and zero delay between attempts? Seems this could be easily mitigated by either setting data to be automatically destroyed after X number of failed attempts, or by adding an ever-increasing cooldown period. Haven't iPhones had this for years?? Maybe I'm confused or missing something.

Hashed passwords get stolen/leaked all the time. If you know the hash algorithm used, that allows you to make unlimited attempts without actually going through the system you're trying to break into for each failed attempt.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Could Google's Quantum Supremacy signal the end of encryption?

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:03 pm

That's why you do more than hash. Encrypt it and store the key separately from the DB. Salt that bad boy, too.
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Re: Could Google's Quantum Supremacy signal the end of encryption?

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:08 pm

In theory, a practical quantum attack can break the encryption too.

But I don't think we're close to that yet.
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Glorious
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Re: Could Google's Quantum Supremacy signal the end of encryption?

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:11 pm

JBI wrote:
I think it is being over-hyped. A lab demo like this is a long way from practical application. Our encryption keys are still safe (for now).


The paper is about how their quantum computer is better at simulating a quantum circuit than a classical computer.

Given that a quantum computer is composed of quantum circuits, this is interesting, but not exactly terribly surprising: fundamentally, their quantum computer is "computing" "natively" the same thing the classical computer is emulating.

And since that emulation, for a classical computer, is cost-exponential, yeah, no, it doesn't exactly "compete" very well.

But this is basically a spread-sheet comparison: They didn't actually do this. They are extrapolating the cost for a classical computer, and since the cost scales DRAMATICALLY with accuracy (remember, "quantum" essentially equates to "probabilistic"!), well chose your time/memory trade-off (because you run out finite memory REAL QUICK, bam, bounded, so automatically it turns into time++++++ after that point) + "hey what is 'good enough' accuracy, anyway" = get whatever you like for a headline. (10,000 years! wait a minute, that's awfully convenient SCIENTIFIC!!!)

And that's the thing on the other side too: accuracy. How "accurate" is the quantum computer? Remember, you have to measure it. Box? Dead Cat? Yup, it's a dozy, and they're basically hand-waving that whole thing:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1666-5

Google's Nature Paper wrote:
Our model assumes that entangling larger and larger systems does not introduce additional error sources beyond the errors we measure at the single- and two-qubit level.


Ohhhhh....

Paper wrote:
A key assumption underlying the theory of quantum error correction is that quantum state errors may be considered digitized and localized


Oh, ok then.

Paper wrote:
the engineering of quantum error correction will need to become a focus of attention.


Are our assumptions justified? Yeah, I would agree that such a thing should be a focus of attention...

...but nah, let's get those numbers (10,000 years!) in the headlines first. :roll:


----

Look, I'm all for research. But here's the thing: If a lab has to play misleading PR games like this, is that really a good sign?
 
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Re: Could Google's Quantum Supremacy signal the end of encryption?

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:13 pm

I think quantum computing researchers are desperately trying to present some semblance of living up to the quantum computing hype. And this doesn't apply just to Google.
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Glorious
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Re: Could Google's Quantum Supremacy signal the end of encryption?

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:21 pm

JBI wrote:
In theory, a practical quantum attack can break the encryption too.

But I don't think we're close to that yet.


And even if they are, what's almost a state-level actor having the ability in 5-10 years is essentially a meaningless threat to the average person.

Furthermore, everything we have physically that does this quantum business requires the closest we can get get to absolute zero (and would work better if we could get even closer--heat is noise. There will be baseline cost that is beyond the means of any regular criminal (or even criminal organization) for essentially forever---there's laws not even they can break: thermodynamics.

That's a tough game. No one's ever come close the last level, let alone beat the final boss known only from the manual as "bedrock physics".
 
Glorious
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Re: Could Google's Quantum Supremacy signal the end of encryption?

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:29 pm

JBI wrote:
I think quantum computing researchers are desperately trying to present some semblance of living up to the quantum computing hype. And this doesn't apply just to Google.


Right, I didn't say it directly, but the assumption that entangling larger and larger systems isn't going to be a source of further error is basically "lolwut" worthy: Yes, stating it outright means the paper remains valid because you aren't hiding it, but it's tantamount to being a paper showing that 1 = 2, assuming you can divide by zero.

Yeah, that's exaggerating, but such an assumption is going to make anyone even mid-brow level about this stuff roll their eyes, and therefore all such people get the feeling that this is really a "LOOK, BEAN-COUNTER DUDE, WE'RE ALL UP IN THE PRESS LOOKING COOL AF SO CLEARLY WE'RE DOING *SOMETHING* RIGHT! SEE! LOOK! REAL WORLD IMPACT! PEOPLE ARE TWEETING ABOUT GOOGLE AND STUFF, WE'RE TRENDING HARD!" sort of a situation.

As I said, if you are really advancing the science.... I... Uhhh, why are you working hard to convince anyone half-familiar with the subject that you are playing weird press games? Especially since the implication of weird press games is that you're getting pressure to answer the question of "just wtf have you been doing down there for the last 5 years, anyway?" and you don't have anything else to offer outside of the aforementioned ALL-CAPS appeal-to-the-public gambit?
 
Igor_Kavinski
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Re: Could Google's Quantum Supremacy signal the end of encryption?

Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:18 am

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/10 ... comments=1

Ars article on politics: everyone's a Political Scientist

Ars article on social reform: everyone's a Sociologist

Ars Article on Quantum Computing: ......"is that the jacket he wears to work!?!?!"

Knowing your Limits: Priceless :)


The comments section in this article is hilarious!

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