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zgirl
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:45 am

Vrock wrote:
zgirl wrote:
Vrock wrote:
Just curious, how old are you?


Why does that matter?
I am curious if there's a correlation between a person's age and their Star Wars preferences. I find that people who grew up with the OT are less inclined to like the newer movies.


Nope, as the first movie I ever saw in the theaters as a child was ESB. Yep I am that old.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:58 am

zgirl wrote:
Nope, as the first movie I ever saw in the theaters as a child was ESB. Yep I am that old.

Try getting your head around 2001 at age 4.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:32 am

The Last Jedi is still the best Star Wars film to date. If Disney learns anything from this, it should be to stop listening to the whiniest parts of the fan base.

There are some good parts in The Rise of Skywalker, but it's mostly a mess, and they ruined much of what was interesting about TLJ. "Rey from nowhere" is far more interesting than "Rey, actually you ARE part of a powerful Force Family!" And Kylo Ren had his chance to redeem himself already...which he threw away, giving him a perfect villainous role for the series.

And more of a minor nitpick, but I still think Leia should have disappeared at the end of TLJ at the same time as Luke. It would have allowed Carrie Fisher to go out easily, and they could have made better use of Hamill as a force ghost here.
On second thought, let's not go to TechReport. Tis a silly place.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:50 am

Captain Ned wrote:
zgirl wrote:
Nope, as the first movie I ever saw in the theaters as a child was ESB. Yep I am that old.

Try getting your head around 2001 at age 4.

...or at any age, for that matter.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:26 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
zgirl wrote:
Nope, as the first movie I ever saw in the theaters as a child was ESB. Yep I am that old.

Try getting your head around 2001 at age 4.

...or at any age, for that matter.


The book was so much easier to grok.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:38 pm

bthylafh wrote:
The book was so much easier to grok.

Unlike most movie books, this one was published after the movie came out simply because Arthur C. needed to explain the whole mess.

Also, conflating ACC and Heinlein (grok) is a high crime in my book.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:56 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
bthylafh wrote:
The book was so much easier to grok.

Unlike most movie books, this one was published after the movie came out simply because Arthur C. needed to explain the whole mess.

Also, conflating ACC and Heinlein (grok) is a high crime in my book.


Wow. The word Grok seems as versatile in its meaning as the F word, or maybe more.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:53 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
bthylafh wrote:
The book was so much easier to grok.

Unlike most movie books, this one was published after the movie came out simply because Arthur C. needed to explain the whole mess.

Also, conflating ACC and Heinlein (grok) is a high crime in my book.


Who's conflating, gramps? "Grok" is a perfectly cromulent word that's getting somewhat wide use in the community.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:02 pm

Watching RoS again (for free this time, thanks to some Korean soul's steady handiwork. heh). It's pretty watchable. No weird scenes in it, like Luke milking the teets of a weird giant mammal. Going into a Star Wars movie hoping that it will somehow meet or exceed the magic of the original trilogy is the Sith way to disappointment. Even George Lucas failed to do that with his prequel trilogy.

By the way, didn't notice before that Tie Fighters have been upgraded with hyperdrives.Guess the First Order cares more about its pilots.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:36 pm

bthylafh wrote:
Who's conflating, gramps? "Grok" is a perfectly cromulent word that's getting somewhat wide use in the community.

I have difficulties using that word WRT ACC, who always espoused deus ex machina solutions in his novels. Heinlein was always about the individual and liberty.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:45 pm

I didn't think it was that bad. Nothing will ever replace the original trilogy in my heart, but hey, we got to see some serious Jedi stuff from Rey, and finally, finally, a Jedi defeats the baddest of the Siths in a direct confrontation, something we only came close to with the Mace Windu vs Palpatine and Yoda vs Palpatine battles, but never quite got (a surprise grab by the scruff of the neck and fairly quick toss over the precipice just ain't the same thing as a direct confrontation, though I did enjoy it at the time).

EDIT: Carrie Fisher's untimely death meant that Leia Organa's dismount was likely going to awkward. Hell, I thought her presence in the film at all looked and felt awkward.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:00 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
bthylafh wrote:
Who's conflating, gramps? "Grok" is a perfectly cromulent word that's getting somewhat wide use in the community.

I have difficulties using that word WRT ACC, who always espoused deus ex machina solutions in his novels. Heinlein was always about the individual and liberty.

Really gotta agree with bthylafh here. It has pretty much entered general usage, at least among techie types who grew up reading Heinlein and anyone influenced by them.

Hmm... I wonder what percentage of people who use the word today are aware of its origin?
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:18 am

When I first started using "grok" I wasn't aware it came from a book. I thought it was just another piece of tech jargon that got made up somewhere along the way. Eventually I googled it out of curiosity and the jargon file set me straight. :P I still tend to use it only with technical people though.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:23 am

superjawes wrote:
The Last Jedi is still the best Star Wars film to date. If Disney learns anything from this, it should be to stop listening to the whiniest parts of the fan base.

There are some good parts in The Rise of Skywalker, but it's mostly a mess, and they ruined much of what was interesting about TLJ. "Rey from nowhere" is far more interesting than "Rey, actually you ARE part of a powerful Force Family!" And Kylo Ren had his chance to redeem himself already...which he threw away, giving him a perfect villainous role for the series.

And more of a minor nitpick, but I still think Leia should have disappeared at the end of TLJ at the same time as Luke. It would have allowed Carrie Fisher to go out easily, and they could have made better use of Hamill as a force ghost here.
The Last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie? Bro, do you even like Star Wars?
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:29 am

Redocbew wrote:
When I first started using "grok" I wasn't aware it came from a book. I thought it was just another piece of tech jargon that got made up somewhere along the way.

I rest my case! :wink:
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:02 am

If only Disney had just split the last part into two parts like Hunger Games. It would have given them more freedom to explore each character in depth and not have to release a mess of a movie with so many plot holes. Maybe they were the victim of Star Wars fatigue. The fiasco of TLJ and box office bomb of Solo made them so paranoid that they just wanted this trilogy to be over with. I guess they figured that they have plenty of other great SW stuff like The Mandalorian to keep the SW cash cow alive for years to come.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:25 pm

Vrock wrote:
superjawes wrote:
The Last Jedi is still the best Star Wars film to date. If Disney learns anything from this, it should be to stop listening to the whiniest parts of the fan base.

There are some good parts in The Rise of Skywalker, but it's mostly a mess, and they ruined much of what was interesting about TLJ. "Rey from nowhere" is far more interesting than "Rey, actually you ARE part of a powerful Force Family!" And Kylo Ren had his chance to redeem himself already...which he threw away, giving him a perfect villainous role for the series.

And more of a minor nitpick, but I still think Leia should have disappeared at the end of TLJ at the same time as Luke. It would have allowed Carrie Fisher to go out easily, and they could have made better use of Hamill as a force ghost here.
The Last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie? Bro, do you even like Star Wars?

Yes, and TLJ is a love letter to Star Wars fans.

The hero(ine) is powerful because she is a Star Wars fan, and she's willing to carry on the legacy even if those who came before aren't. The villain is evil because he's trying to destroy Star Wars. Listen to what Yoda says again. He tells Luke that Rey stole the Jedi texts (in his own way), that failure is how we learn, and that "we are what they grow beyond."

It's not all that subtle. Rise of Skywalker is a mess because Disney let it undo all the good work from TLJ. It basically let a bunch of whiny people--who literally profited off of the outrage--dictate the final installment, and it's a damn shame.
On second thought, let's not go to TechReport. Tis a silly place.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:09 pm

 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:05 pm

TLJ was easily the worst Star Wars movie.

They spend an hour on a casino planet, chasing things that utterly don't matter in any way, shape or form (confirmed by Rise of Skywalker. Not even "Kid Broom Jedi guy" is acknowledged). A hacker they weren't supposed to meet ended up being a spy. Luke gives up on the force, in a giant "Eff U" to the fanbase, to the point where Mark Hamill publicly complains about how uncharacteristic Luke Skywalker is acting.

Rian Johnson is a good director, but he had his own head up his ass when he expected the general fanbase to accept his fully arbitrary world, which unnecessarily craps on characters for no reason. Admiral Ackbar dies offscreen (to an unnamed Tie Fighter no less), Vice Admiral Holdo is completely incompetent: failing to communicate her plan to the point where Poe mutinies. If you got a secret escape route planned, maybe you should let your soldiers know about that sort of thing so that they don't ruin the escape route with a 1+ hour trip looking for a hacker on a casino planet. Luke is a whiny bitch. Rey gets sad about an infinite set of mirrors. The entirety of the rebellion was destroyed to the point where they fit on the Millennium Falcon. Flying Leia was incredibly cringe and shot poorly (its a cool power, don't get me wrong. But that was just a poorly shot scene).

I like being surprised: I like that Snoke was killed off unexpectedly. I'm fine with Rey being no one important (even if its walked back in the next movie). But if you're trying to tell me that a movie consisting of the slowest space chase scene in all of movie history + an unnecessary 1-hour side adventure on a meaningless casino planet is a "good movie", you're fully off your rocker man.

-------------

Rise of Skywalker manages to outdo my low expectations of the franchise. They managed to acknowledge parts of TLJ (ex: Rey truly is "daughter to nobody", but is "granddaughter" to someone important). Luke's force ghost acknowledges that he was a whiny bitch in the previous movie, and cautions Ray to not make the same mistake. Sure, JJ Abrams forgot of a lot of details (ex: how did they find Luke's lightsaber? What about "broom kid"?), but JJ Abrams never was good with consistency and I was expecting a lot of details to be dropped going in.

Rise of Skywalker is an arbitrary plot with poor McGuffins and Deus Ex Machina as a finale, akin to "Happy Feet" (Yeah, that bad penguin movie's finale). If you've watched the movie, you know what I'm talking about... but honestly... this poor ending is still leagues better than anything that happened in TLJ.

----------

All in all, this whole new 7/8/9 trilogy only made me appreciate the consistency that Lucas had with the previous movies. Sure Episode 1/2/3 were bad, but they were consistent, with a plot that truly evolves from episode 1 through episode 3. (Episode 4/5/6 were clearly "making **** up as they go", but somehow managed to be fun). I miss the consistency and long-term payoff that Lucas managed to do.

As such: Original Trilogy > Prequel Trilogy > New Trilogy.

Episode 9 > Episode 7 >>>>>> Episode 8, in my opinion. Episode 7 was too "safe", not challenging me in any way. Episode 8, while it managed to challenge my expectations, was a crap sandwich. Just because its "challenging" doesn't mean its actually good. It was boring, it broke characters, it destroyed role models, it had poor political implications, and was poorly thought through.

Episode 9 did manage to surprise me, somehow. It was filled with plotholes, handwaves, and dial-a-movie style storytelling. But for all of its flaws, Episode 9 somehow managed to be the most enjoyable watch out of the new trilogy for me.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:02 pm

dragontamer5788 wrote:
TLJ was easily the worst Star Wars movie.

They spend an hour on a casino planet, chasing things that utterly don't matter in any way, shape or form (confirmed by Rise of Skywalker. Not even "Kid Broom Jedi guy" is acknowledged). A hacker they weren't supposed to meet ended up being a spy. Luke gives up on the force, in a giant "Eff U" to the fanbase, to the point where Mark Hamill publicly complains about how uncharacteristic Luke Skywalker is acting.

Rian Johnson is a good director, but he had his own head up his ass when he expected the general fanbase to accept his fully arbitrary world, which unnecessarily craps on characters for no reason. Admiral Ackbar dies offscreen (to an unnamed Tie Fighter no less), Vice Admiral Holdo is completely incompetent: failing to communicate her plan to the point where Poe mutinies. If you got a secret escape route planned, maybe you should let your soldiers know about that sort of thing so that they don't ruin the escape route with a 1+ hour trip looking for a hacker on a casino planet. Luke is a whiny bitch. Rey gets sad about an infinite set of mirrors. The entirety of the rebellion was destroyed to the point where they fit on the Millennium Falcon. Flying Leia was incredibly cringe and shot poorly (its a cool power, don't get me wrong. But that was just a poorly shot scene).

I like being surprised: I like that Snoke was killed off unexpectedly. I'm fine with Rey being no one important (even if its walked back in the next movie). But if you're trying to tell me that a movie consisting of the slowest space chase scene in all of movie history + an unnecessary 1-hour side adventure on a meaningless casino planet is a "good movie", you're fully off your rocker man.
You know this little film called Raiders of the Lost Ark? The titular character, Indiana Jones, is basically meaningless. Take him out of the movie and the Nazis find the Ark, open it, and DIE. Everything goes back to square one, except with fewer Nazis. So that movie is pointless, too, right?

Pay closer attention...Holdo didn't communicate her plan because it depended on secrecy (they were trying to deceive the First Order). She didn't communicate to Poe because Poe was supposed to learn to forking listen, follow orders, and not run off half-cocked. That lesson is further enforced when he sends Finn and Rose running off half-cocked to the casino planet, only making things worse. Speaking of casino planet, Finn gets a glimpse of deeper issues in the galaxy so he grows out of only caring for 1 or 2, and instead caring for something greater. Luke giving up on the Force was basically in-line with what Obi-Wan and Yoda were doing. The only difference is that he failed in a more spectacular way (when he actually considered murdering his nephew in cold blood, which explains the "give up" addition). His arc is about growing beyond that failure and leading others...which he does by sacrificing himself, delaying the First Order and utterly embarrassing Kylo Ren at the same time.

I mean if "they failed" is an argument against The Last Jedi, why does anyone like Empire? In that film, the Rebels lose Hoth and many lives on escape, Luke loses to Vader (and a hand), Han gets captured and sent to Jabba, Lando loses his city, and 3PO gets blowed up! Yet somehow it's regarded as the best film of the entire franchise. Could it be because characters were growing and learning along the way?
On second thought, let's not go to TechReport. Tis a silly place.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:25 pm

Double post. This post removed.
Last edited by dragontamer5788 on Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:45 pm

superjawes wrote:
Pay closer attention...Holdo didn't communicate her plan because it depended on secrecy (they were trying to deceive the First Order). She didn't communicate to Poe because Poe was supposed to learn to forking listen, follow orders, and not run off half-cocked.


I'm not stupid. I notice the message and I accept that's what Rian Johnson was going for. Its not really a complicated movie at all.

Here's the problem: Commander Holdo is in charge of the ship, and the mutiny against her (and the eventual failure, due to Finn / Rose's mission messing up her plans), is fully a mistake that Commander Holdo makes. Secrecy of the plan could have been kept, but she gave no indication to any of the characters that she even had an escape plan. That's why Poe rebelled. If they wanted to show Poe as a gun-ho hothead who screws up with well-made plans, then they should have unambiguously shot the movie better to indicate that was the case. The movie as shot, is a lesson in Holdo's incompetence, and her inability to communicate plans to her underlings.

Ex: If they shot a spy on the ship, and THEN Holdo tells the plans (indicating that she had "information superiority" against Poe), that would have been awesome. But as the film stands, there was no spy on the ship. (In fact, the only spy was DJ from Finn / Rose's adventure). There's no reason to believe that Holdo's words on the ship were somehow being read or listened in on by The First Order. So why the hell is Commander Holdo being secretive about things?

Ex2: If Holdo knew about Poe's mutiny (and Finn and Rose's mission), but "lets it happen anyway" so that Poe can blow off steam, that too would have been acceptable. If Commander Holdo truly is worthy of being a commander and understanding of her underling's emotions, she would have been able to manage the mission even in the absence of direct control.

Its one thing to have a failure because you're up against a powerful enemy. The failures of TLJ however, were due to internal politicking, idiotic character choices, cowardice on behalf of otherwise heroic characters (ie: Luck Skywalker running away and canonically shutting himself off of the force against the face of unspeakable evil). All of these are fundamentally unfun.

Perhaps its real. I know of real people who have made mistakes akin to TLJ. But I'm not watching a space opera with laser swords and unrealistic physics for that reason. (Lol at "dropping bombs" in space. Does Rian Johnson even know how gravity works?)
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:57 pm

And here I was thinking that this thread was surprisingly devoid of the useless backseat complaining that usually accompanies a star wars movie let alone the last in a trilogy. Guess I should have known better.

If I was a movie director I wouldn't go anywhere near a project like this. It's a thankless job, but internet experts abound on every subject imaginable. No reason why this should be any different.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:07 pm

Redocbew wrote:
And here I was thinking that this thread was surprisingly devoid of the useless backseat complaining that usually accompanies a star wars movie let alone the last in a trilogy. Guess I should have known better.


I don't have many complaints about Rise of Skywalker.

I mean... I actually have a lot of complaints about it. But they were lots of tiny complaints. Poor use of Deus Ex Machina, poor payoff, forgotten plot threads (how did Maz get Luke's Lightsaber?), etc. etc. They're tiny things overall however. The big picture was fun, so I enjoyed it. I could type up a lot of my complaints if anyone actually is going to have "fun hating the movie". But I'm not going to throw the first stone.

Rise of Skywalker, for all of its flaws, was the best movie in the new Trilogy.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:24 pm

And really, all the complaining about this movie in various parts of the 'net will amount to nothing: Star Wars fanboys will still go see whatever the next movie is, buy the next themed video game and collectible, etc., because they're fanboys no matter how much they complain. I know several of these Jediboos in real life.

I don't get it, but I wouldn't.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:40 pm

bthylafh wrote:
And really, all the complaining about this movie in various parts of the 'net will amount to nothing: Star Wars fanboys will still go see whatever the next movie is, buy the next themed video game and collectible, etc., because they're fanboys no matter how much they complain. I know several of these Jediboos in real life.

I don't get it, but I wouldn't.


I don't know. After "The Last Jedi", Solo performed worse and Rise of Skywalker has lower sales as well. The Rise of Skywalker remains profitable, but its less profitable than they expected.

It does feel like TLJ tapered expectations of fans severely.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:18 am

dragontamer5788 wrote:
The Rise of Skywalker remains profitable, but its less profitable than they expected.


There's still time for it to capture some more moolah. In half a month, it's raked in more than $700 million worldwide. Crazy fans could tip it over a billion through repeat viewings.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:07 am

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/sta ... rge-lucas/

The last entry in the Skywalker Saga not only promises to wrap up the Sequel Trilogy, but also bring the ancient conflict between the Jedi and the Sith to its definitive end. One would assume that’s a lot of threads to weave together in a single movie, and they’d be right. It would seem that fans have been worried for all the right reasons, as a new rumor claims that early test screenings were so disastrous that Disney CEO Bob Iger promptly asked director J.J. Abrams to redo much of the film and even asked George Lucas to come in and make some changes.

Of course, we’ll file this one strictly in the rumor cabinet for now since it comes from a YouTuber with a questionable track record, but according to them, the test screenings were made up of hardcore fans, casual fans, and general audience members who were simply aware of Star Wars. The first version, which the YouTuber calls the Abrams/Kennedy cut, had the lowest average score (29), mostly due to a lackluster third act.

It’s said that one huge problem was when Rey destroyed Emperor Palpatine and essentially owned him in an “OP fashion” during their last battle. At that point, everyone burst into laughter and this enraged Iger, who was also present during the screening. He then proceeded to order a redo of the movie which brings us to the second cut.

Apparently, Iger specifically asked Abrams to bring in Anakin and Luke “in the flesh” (we’re not entirely sure what that means) and the revised version from Disney’s boss received a better score (65) in the following test screening. But that wasn’t enough, and George Lucas was then brought in to make some amendments.

The rumor suggests that Lucas incorporated elements from both versions and edited the finale, introducing a secret Skywalker in the third act. This garnered a much more positive reaction and received the best score (88).


Thanks, Georgie!

On the other hand, the haters will say that Lucas's involvement is the reason it sucks :D

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/248585 ... screenings

Abrams lying through his teeth to save face? You be the judge.

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rise-s ... it-disney/

Boy, such a lost opportunity. Disney should have listened to their creative team.
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:41 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
dragontamer5788 wrote:
The Rise of Skywalker remains profitable, but its less profitable than they expected.


There's still time for it to capture some more moolah. In half a month, it's raked in more than $700 million worldwide. Crazy fans could tip it over a billion through repeat viewings.


It seems like Fans are reacting to Rise of Skywalker better overall.

Lucasfilm and Walt Disney's Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker opened with a forceful $175.5 million in its domestic debut. That's 20% below the $220 million launch of The Last Jedi in 2017 and 29% below the $248 million launch of The Force Awakens in 2015.


So that's where we have started. However, it seems like word is coming out that Rise of Skywalker is a better movie, and Rise of Skywalker is now ~300-million domestic, neck-and-neck with TLJ.

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/248585 ... screenings

Abrams lying through his teeth to save face? You be the judge.


I'm going to bet on "Youtuber lying through teeth so that he gets clicks (ie money)" is far more likely a scenario. Is there any reason to believe the anonymous Youtuber with "leaks" over JJ Abrams?
 
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Re: Rise of Skywalker spoilers

Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:04 pm

I'll largely agree with zgirl. It's not my favorite movie, but I think it was a large improvement over TLJ. It sure seems they were trying to distance themselves from TLJ in this one starting with some apparent retconning from the start. Normally that'd annoy me, but honestly TLJ deserves it. TLJ is worst Star Wars movie.

I still like the original trilogy the best but I never delved into any expanded universe stuff so perhaps I'm far less attached to what Star Wars was and mostly came into the newer stuff to see a movie without some preconceived notion that it should be a "Star Wars" movie.

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