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Igor_Kavinski
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:14 am

Waco wrote:
My job title is literally "scientist".

If I were in your shoes I'd spend a few minutes reading about how astrology isn't science and be done with it.


If everyone did that, there would be no discoveries in the future. Science would come to a standstill. People would just read what is and isn't possible and stop trying to explore new possibilities with their minds.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:18 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Waco wrote:
My job title is literally "scientist".

If I were in your shoes I'd spend a few minutes reading about how astrology isn't science and be done with it.

If everyone did that, there would be no discoveries in the future. Science would come to a standstill. People would just read what is and isn't possible and stop trying to explore new possibilities with their minds.

Uhh... what? That makes ZERO sense. Science is ALL about formulating new theories and attempting to find evidence for/against them, building on what we already know.

Yet again, you demonstrate that while you claim to "believe" in science, you have no clue what it actually is.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Igor_Kavinski
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:24 am

just brew it! wrote:
Science is ALL about formulating new theories and attempting to find evidence for/against them, building on what we already know.


OK then, I believe in the theory of astrology and I find it damn interesting. All the evidence I need is in the similarities between the real life data about real life people's character traits that I have amassed through my experience and how all of it makes sense because people of the same sign repeatedly exhibit the same qualities. It's all in my mind and I lack the scientific knowledge or training to put it into a proper research paper. Satisfied?
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:46 am

Astrology? Let's go to that helpful compendium of all knowledge, the Hitchhiker's Guide.

https://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry/2 ... glas-adams
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
Igor_Kavinski
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:49 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Astrology? Let's go to that helpful compendium of all knowledge, the Hitchhiker's Guide.

https://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry/2 ... glas-adams


So you see, astrology's nothing to do with astronomy. It's just to do with people thinking about people.


I don't disagree.
 
Glorious
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:59 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Lucian was a wise man and I agree with what he said.


No, you don't. He said it was make-believe.
 
Igor_Kavinski
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:02 am

Glorious wrote:
Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Lucian was a wise man and I agree with what he said.


No, you don't. He said it was make-believe.


Like you believe that you are right. Let's all make believe in our respective beliefs.
 
Glorious
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:22 am

No, Lucian said it was make-believe.
 
Igor_Kavinski
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:25 am

Glorious wrote:
No, Lucian said it was make-believe.


What do you believe?
 
Glorious
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:27 am

It is make-believe.
 
whm1974
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:46 pm

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Glorious wrote:
so the belief that the stars affected human events wasn't really a practicable concept, just a philosophical construct to make humans feel small.


Lucian was a wise man and I agree with what he said. Astrology is just information, nothing more. It won't help you change the course of your life. It's for the inquisitive. You can live blissfully without knowing anything about it. And humans ARE small. I don't do astrological predictions. I don't want to know in advance that something bad is going to happen. That would just ruin the fun of living. I think the biggest fallacy humans have is that they created knowledge. What if it was simply given to us? What if all the intellectuals were and are just a gift from God, to better our condition? And instead of being grateful to Him, most of us use that very gifted knowledge to deny His existence. I sure hope you understand the predicament of trying to science your way out of explaining on the Day of Judgement why you saw fit to deny God's existence and your duties of worship and gratitude towards Him despite having lived a fulfilling life.

Atheist don't deny "god's" existence. They simply lack any beliefs in them. You theists have not shown that any "gods" actually exist at all.
 
whm1974
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:54 pm

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Science is ALL about formulating new theories and attempting to find evidence for/against them, building on what we already know.


OK then, I believe in the theory of astrology and I find it damn interesting. All the evidence I need is in the similarities between the real life data about real life people's character traits that I have amassed through my experience and how all of it makes sense because people of the same sign repeatedly exhibit the same qualities. It's all in my mind and I lack the scientific knowledge or training to put it into a proper research paper. Satisfied?

You doing this the wrong way. No scientist starts out out with "This is What I believe..." at all. Darwin for example, wanted to know why there was so much diversity of Life on Earth.
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:56 pm

What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
Vrock
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:46 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Atheist don't deny "god's" existence. They simply lack any beliefs in them. You theists have not shown that any "gods" actually exist at all.

Atheists have faith in science, and nothing else.
I hate when I go out in public, and the public is there.
 
whm1974
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:00 pm

Vrock wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Atheist don't deny "god's" existence. They simply lack any beliefs in them. You theists have not shown that any "gods" actually exist at all.

Atheists have faith in science, and nothing else.

That is false. All atheism means, is that person lacks belief in every gods existent. That is all it is. In my case I don't have "Faith" in Science, but confidence because it works.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:09 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Vrock wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Atheist don't deny "god's" existence. They simply lack any beliefs in them. You theists have not shown that any "gods" actually exist at all.

Atheists have faith in science, and nothing else.

That is false. All atheism means, is that person lacks belief in every gods existent. That is all it is. In my case I don't have "Faith" in Science, but confidence because it works.

That implies faith in the scientific method though...
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Vrock
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:14 pm

whm1974 wrote:
In my case I don't have "Faith" in Science, but confidence because it works.

As far as you can tell, anyway.

Do you only believe in things that are empirical?
I hate when I go out in public, and the public is there.
 
whm1974
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:14 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Vrock wrote:
Atheists have faith in science, and nothing else.

That is false. All atheism means, is that person lacks belief in every gods existent. That is all it is. In my case I don't have "Faith" in Science, but confidence because it works.

That implies faith in the scientific method though...

How does that imply "Faith"? I thought you knew better then this?
 
whm1974
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:17 pm

Vrock wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
In my case I don't have "Faith" in Science, but confidence because it works.

As far as you can tell, anyway.

Do you only believe in things that are empirical?

That is false. Empirical is In The Real World(Nature) therefor it can be tested.
 
Vrock
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:19 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Vrock wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
In my case I don't have "Faith" in Science, but confidence because it works.

As far as you can tell, anyway.

Do you only believe in things that are empirical?

That is false. Empirical is In The Real World(Nature) therefor it can be tested.

As far as you know.

So you believe in nothing that you can't test empirically?
I hate when I go out in public, and the public is there.
 
Waco
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:32 pm

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Waco wrote:
My job title is literally "scientist".

If I were in your shoes I'd spend a few minutes reading about how astrology isn't science and be done with it.


If everyone did that, there would be no discoveries in the future. Science would come to a standstill. People would just read what is and isn't possible and stop trying to explore new possibilities with their minds.

...no. I think you like the idea of science but don't care to actually apply its methods to your own ideas/beliefs.

You can't set out believing something with no evidence then decide that everyone else has to prove you wrong. That's not logical or useful.

Example: I believe that God is a giant sentient donut on the other side of the sun. Prove me wrong.
Victory requires no explanation. Defeat allows none.
 
Vrock
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:44 pm

Waco wrote:
Example: I believe that God is a giant sentient donut on the other side of the sun. Prove me wrong.

Not a great example; that's actually quite falsifiable. You sure you're a real scientist?
I hate when I go out in public, and the public is there.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:44 pm

whm1974 wrote:
How does that imply "Faith"? I thought you knew better then this?

The assertion that the scientific method is the most effective path to finding the truth is not falsifiable. Therefore, believing in the scientific method is a form of faith.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:45 pm

Vrock wrote:
Waco wrote:
Example: I believe that God is a giant sentient donut on the other side of the sun. Prove me wrong.

Not a great example; that's actually quite falsifiable. You sure you're a real scientist?

OK, a giant invisible donut then. :wink:
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Vrock
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:47 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
How does that imply "Faith"? I thought you knew better then this?

The assertion that the scientific method is the most effective path to finding the truth is not falsifiable. Therefore, believing in the scientific method is a form of faith.

Yep. Hell, the assertion that observable reality is a thing isn't actually falsifiable. At some point, everything comes down to faith.
I hate when I go out in public, and the public is there.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:53 pm

Vrock wrote:
Yep. Hell, the assertion that observable reality is a thing isn't actually falsifiable. At some point, everything comes down to faith.

E.g. I could assert that we're all part of a vast, galactic Sims-style simulation. It's not falsifiable (nor is it particularly useful).
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Waco
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:55 pm

Vrock wrote:
Waco wrote:
Example: I believe that God is a giant sentient donut on the other side of the sun. Prove me wrong.

Not a great example; that's actually quite falsifiable. You sure you're a real scientist?

I was giving him the option to say that we should go observe it to prove me right or wrong...then lead him to the conclusion that you can't really do that with Astrology.

But nevermind. :P
Victory requires no explanation. Defeat allows none.
 
whm1974
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:01 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
How does that imply "Faith"? I thought you knew better then this?

The assertion that the scientific method is the most effective path to finding the truth is not falsifiable. Therefore, believing in the scientific method is a form of faith.

That is not what I asserted at all!!! I said I have conference in Science because it works.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:04 pm

whm1974 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
How does that imply "Faith"? I thought you knew better then this?

The assertion that the scientific method is the most effective path to finding the truth is not falsifiable. Therefore, believing in the scientific method is a form of faith.

That is not what I asserted at all!!! I said I have conference in Science because it works.

That's just a different way of saying essentially the same thing.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
whm1974
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Re: Chinese astrology - Let's try this one more time...

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:29 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
The assertion that the scientific method is the most effective path to finding the truth is not falsifiable. Therefore, believing in the scientific method is a form of faith.

That is not what I asserted at all!!! I said I have conference in Science because it works.

That's just a different way of saying essentially the same thing.

How exactly?
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