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thegleek
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Fish hobbyist thread (aquariums and tanks - not the sport)

Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:55 am

DrFish should be the one starting this thread off, but since my fiance is getting so deep into this, I wanted to find out more about this hobby.

Currently we have a 29 gallon tank with some fishies in it.

We just purchased a used 55 gallon tank because some of those little fishies will grow up to be real big fishies.

Also, we have some aggressive fish which we need to seperate from the others.

The fishies we have are a red pacu, silver dollar "red hook", t. moori firecracker, some fancy yellow fish which I forgot the name to it, and a pleco.

This hobby is quite expensive and time consuming! I'm not really involved with any of it other than having to finance the entire operation! haha
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Usacomp2k3
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:59 am

Jungle 2 Jungle anyone?
or "Fish are friends, not food."
 
idchafee
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Re: Fish hobbyist thread (aquariums and tanks - not the spor

Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:00 am

thegleek wrote:
We just purchased a used 55 gallon tank because some of those little fishies will grow up to be real big fishies.


I thought fish grow in porportion to how much room they have. Big tank = big fish, small tank = small fish? Or no.
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thegleek
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Re: Fish hobbyist thread (aquariums and tanks - not the spor

Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:21 am

idchafee wrote:
I thought fish grow in porportion to how much room they have. Big tank = big fish, small tank = small fish? Or no.

Heh! Highly not true. Put an oscar into a 12 gallon tank and see what happens to him after a year... :o
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Re: Fish hobbyist thread (aquariums and tanks - not the spor

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:35 pm

thegleek wrote:
idchafee wrote:
I thought fish grow in porportion to how much room they have. Big tank = big fish, small tank = small fish? Or no.

Heh! Highly not true. Put an oscar into a 12 gallon tank and see what happens to him after a year... :o


I have heard this stated from multiple people as well. I think it depends on the fish type. I think some still get big no matter what, but that most grow to what their environment supports, within reason.

One day, I want a big tank with Discus. Those are so awesome. Among the hardest to keep healthy though.
I've seen some amazing, memorable tanks with them though - usually in pet stores or zoos.
 
paulWTAMU
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:42 pm

Have fun with the Pacu. Those are possibly one of hte worst beginner fish, just due to size. I've seen some more than 16" in length, and given the bulk that they attain, it makes a huge fish. Try a hundred gallons ;) Maybe more.

Fish ain't my main thing, but they're pretty cool. I've got some dwarf gouramis and cordys.

Plecos also get large, but there are numerous species, many of which are hard to distinguish, that are sold as plecos, and some are bigger than others. I've seen several in the two foot range. Mine is about 1 foot (lives with some turtles).
On the bigger tanks, shell out the cash for the big external filters, like Fluvals or Magnums. They're pricey (mine was 130) but they make life so much easier.
 
drfish
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:45 pm

Oh, no, this thread is going to take a lot of my time... :o

Sadly I don't have much time to post now but I'll be back...

Did I mention I'm building my own 275 gallon plywood aquarium? ;)

My lair (already posted in the "my desk" thread but oh well):
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Thanks for starting this thread Gleek, I honestly did mean to start one like it myself. :)
TR BBQ XIV is over.
 
thegleek
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Re: Fish hobbyist thread (aquariums and tanks - not the spor

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:48 pm

FroBozz_Inc wrote:
I have heard this stated from multiple people as well. I think it depends on the fish type. I think some still get big no matter what, but that most grow to what their environment supports, within reason.

"Hearing things" and doing research on it are two totally different things. We've dealt with 6-8 fish/aquarium shops already in the tri-county area. And we've surfed on 5-10 professional fish/hobby websites, along with the purchase of many various books on this.

Here's 1 out of 1000's of sites that repeatingly say the same thing over and over, "THE BIGGER THE BETTER", as quoted here:

"The basic time tested rule still stands, the bigger the better, with the
surface area more important than capacity. Larger tanks are easier to
care of. The toxic substances released by the Biological or Nitrogen cycle
are more dispersed in the larger volume of water, which allows the water
quality stay higher for longer periods of time. Beginner hobbyist with
their lack of experience will benefit from the larger tanks.

For the beginner I would recommend the standard and inexpensive
rectangular 55 gallon all glass aquarium with the approximate
measurements of 48 inches long by 12 inches wide and 20 inches tall.
A tank this size is easy to care for and yet not too large to be
overwhelming. A common misconception of small fish equals small tank
is not always true as the smaller fish tend to be more active and need
more space to swim in.
"

- from: http://badmanstropicalfish.com/basics/b ... riums.html

FroBozz_Inc wrote:
One day, I want a big tank with Discus. Those are so awesome. Among the hardest to keep healthy though.
I've seen some amazing, memorable tanks with them though - usually in pet stores or zoos.

Discus, yes. Why is everyone so fascinated with this freshwater fish? It's a waste of money and time and effort to keep these alive. You minds well go and set up a salt water tank and get some really exotic fish.
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FroBozz_Inc
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:03 pm

I don't disagree with anything you just posted. You didn't address the right question though.

The question was basically, "How does a given tank size affect the eventual growth of a given fish?" or "Does a fish grow in porportion to how much room they have?"

I think that sometimes they are related, and sometimes they are not. You above basically told Idchafee that he was wrong. I don't think he was "highly not true". However, yes I think there are some fish that keep growing reguardless of how much room they have? Oscars, Pleco's, and others included... There are lots of fish that are in fact influenced by their tank size. I could be wrong, but I have heard from several "people in the know" that this is indeed the case.

Some Discus are freshwater, and some are brackish. Most of the ones I've seen are brackish, FWIW.
 
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:10 pm

Discus are a pain to maintain
Pacu will get huge, a 55 gallon tank is kind of small for them
I have had a fish tank of some sort since I was like 6
Currently I only have a few fish left in my 35 gallon tank. Plus several in my outdoor ponds.
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thegleek
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:24 pm

FroBozz_Inc wrote:
Some Discus are freshwater, and some are brackish. Most of the ones I've seen are brackish, FWIW.

ALL discus are freshwater. Where are you getting your false information at? I have two sites to prove my point:

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discus_fish
- no mention of these type of fish anywhere to be kept in a brackish-type water environment.

2. http://www.aquariacentral.com/faqs/brackish/
- out of all the fish listed for brachish type water, discus was not mentioned at all.
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:35 pm

Some fish do grow in relation to the size of their environment. Goldfish for instance will generally stay small in a small tank, but can get quite large in a pond. But I saw a full grown angelfish in a 10gal tank that had gotten so big it's top fin stuck up out of the water.
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FroBozz_Inc
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:40 pm

Gleek, I'm not making anything up here.

Google "brackish discus" and see for yourself.

Maybe most aren't brackish. The tanks I've seen in person that had only Discus in them, were more often brackish then freshwater, acording to the people that cared for them. Maybe that's uncommon. Maybe it's just a coincedence that I've seen more less common Discus then more common ones. I dunno.

"All Discus" are NOT "All freshwater".

Edit: the stuff I'm reading more supports your point then mine. All I can say is that of the 6-7 Discus tanks I've seen and asked questions about - the answer came back "brackish" more then not. So I don't know. Maybe 4-5 pet store owners were wrong? I don't know. I know they come from the Amazon, and some come from near the delta where it empties into the ocean, where the water is brackish.

Let's let the good doctor settle this question.
Last edited by FroBozz_Inc on Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
thegleek
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:53 pm

FroBozz_Inc wrote:
Gleek, I'm not making anything up here.

Google "brackish discus" and see for yourself.

As I did... Google'd for "brackish discus" (including the quotes of course), and it came up with only ONE result. Period. Quite odd don't 'cha think?

FroBozz_Inc wrote:
Maybe most aren't brackish. The tanks I've seen in person that had only Discus in them, were more often brackish then freshwater, acording to the people that cared for them. Maybe that's uncommon. Maybe it's just a coincedence that I've seen more less common Discus then more common ones. I dunno.

"All Discus" are NOT "All freshwater".

edit: After further review, I have read that some Discus are 100% freshwater, some are somewhere in between freshwater and brackish, and some are brackish.

This is a dumb thing to argue about.

Haha true. But overall, NO discus are BRACKISH. :) I still love j00.
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:57 pm

Lol, fish geeks.
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FroBozz_Inc
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:08 pm

thegleek wrote:
Haha true. But overall, NO discus are BRACKISH. :) I still love j00.


see my edit above:

Edit: the stuff I'm reading more supports your point then mine. All I can say is that of the 6-7 Discus tanks I've seen and asked questions about - the answer came back "brackish" more then not. So I don't know. Maybe 4-5 pet store owners were wrong? I don't know. I know they come from the Amazon, and some come from near the delta where it empties into the ocean, where the water is brackish.

Let's let the good doctor settle this question.


Oh, and DONT include the quotes!
Big difference in the results there. Try it Gleek.
 
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:55 pm

My cousin's basement is FULL of tanks. All told they have 27 tanks of fish ranging in size from 20ish to over 60 gallons. Her husband is a stay-at-home dad who's going back to school to get his teaching certificate and watch their kids. It's his hobby. To me it sounds like a pet store, and if you go down there you can tell he puts a ton of time into it. That'd make me bonkers.
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drfish
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:38 pm

Re Discus:
While Discus might be able to handle a little salt in their water (as many fish can) they aren't considered brackish water fish. In fact, the only brackish cichlids that I know of are some of the Chromides from various parts of Asia.

Re size/fish size:
The thing with that is you can stunt a fish's growth and even cause deformities by keeping fish in too small of a tank. Many different fish can successful be kept in smaller than ideal aquariums but that's just it, it's not ideal. It all depends on how much you care about the quality of of life your fish experience. There is no good rule of thumb for this, the best thing to do is ask advice from experts either from your local fish shop if you have a good one or online in forums. Buy the tank and then the fish and before either purchase, research, research, research!

Re salt vs fresh:
I have yet to own a saltwater tank, I could but at this point I don't want to. There are SO many amazing freshwater fish to keep and habitats to simulate that it's going to take me many more years before I have to try saltwater to try something new. I think it's a pretty common misconception that saltwater or reef tanks full of soft corals are the holy grail of the aquarium hobby, there are just as many challenges associated with some kinds of freshwater fish. Saltwater tanks/fish may be generically "prettier" in most people's opinions but if you want more than something that's just nice to watch you should be looking into some of the more specialized freshwater options. For me that's Tanganyikan cichilds, I've also got a Malawi tank and some puffers in an Asia style setup. The monster tank I'm building will be for Oscars and other Amazon big boys and my next tank after that will probably be a large brackish setup with mangroves growing out of the top...

Gleek,
We're going to have to talk at the BBQ. You've got a funky mix of fish going on there... :o Is your fancy yellow fish "electric yellow" by chance?
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paulWTAMU
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:24 pm

I also do not get the fascination with saltwater tanks. I'm a fan of very large naturalistic freshwater setups myself; I'd love to do about a 300 gallon freshwater tropical setup. I'd try for a good planting mix--some Amazon Swords, some grasses and java fern, etc. I'd probably place some good flagstone in there for rock piles, and would plant around them. I'm thinking a mix of mid sized schooling fish, and maybe some aquatic amphibians--floating frogs, sirens, something like that. The odd fish might get eaten, but in a 300 gallon tank with low population density, I bet it'd be workable.
That said, I can't afford either the money or space for that now. *sigh* and when I can, the first priority is a walk in closet for my monitor, and a shower stall cage for each of my boas.
 
tsoulier
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:35 pm

This is something i may be able to get into instead of sitting in front computers and wanting to upgrade every six months hummm , may have to look into a 150 gallon tanks or so :lol:
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5150
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:50 am

My son's fish tank cracked, can any of you pros suggest a 10 gallon (or so) replacement that will pretty much clean itself and won't cost me a couple Benjamins? Thanks!
 
drfish
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:02 am

A new 10 gallon should be less than $10...?
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:17 am

drfish wrote:
A new 10 gallon should be less than $10...?
Yeah, unless you want to pick up some all-in-one, uniquely-shaped aquarium with high-power lighting and whatnot, a standard $10 10 gal aquarium along with what's in the old tank should do fine. Yes, there are more expensive tanks, but they're expensive for reasons that don't necessarily have any benefit unless you're looking for some sort of elegant display tank that's on center stage somewhere.
...
 
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:43 am

drfish wrote:
A new 10 gallon should be less than $10...?


Yeah, but I need a filtering system and all the extras. My current tank is some $50-60 plastic jobber and I won't be able to use the filters from it.
 
paulWTAMU
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:14 pm

Go with a bigger tank. Pricier, but easier to keep clean and stable. A 30 gallon with a small Fluval external filter=relatively easy to keep clean.
 
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:24 pm

If anyone lives near me in Bloomfield, NY, I have a 150 plexi tank, lights, and stand I am not using, nor plan to use for a long while. I have gotten into water gardens instead, and the aquarium was turning into a large green cube.

Discus are very cool fish, and I had a tank full of them... until I moved and killed them all by accident when in the new apartment, I plugged in the heater and bubble in the temporary tank, and turned them off along with the light when I left. I decided not to start wilh them again as they are quite expensive, and hard to get. I at one time had them breeding well in the aquarium.

This was bak when I was still paying attention to it:
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Note: Live plants + large aquarium == very low maintenence.

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jss21382
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Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:23 pm

hey drfish....where would be a good place to go in our area if one were to want to get back into having an aquarium again, I haven't looked terribly hard but all I've really seen around here is chain stores
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thegleek
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:06 am

paulWTAMU wrote:
Go with a bigger tank. Pricier, but easier to keep clean and stable. A 30 gallon with a small Fluval external filter=relatively easy to keep clean.

I agree! Most sites/hobbyists/retails all agree and suggest the starting point should be a 55 gallon tank. It serves as a better medium for the fish to live in and provides adequate environment for their life support over a long period of time.

We just purchased a Fluval system for our 29 gallon tank and it's awesome! Our next investment will be for an Unimax filtration system. It's very very hard to get one of these systems because they are from Poland. They are claimed to be one of the best filtration systems in the world. The company is called AquaEl and their website can be found at: http://sklep.aquael.pl/

drfish wrote:
Re Discus:
While Discus might be able to handle a little salt in their water (as many fish can) they aren't considered brackish water fish. In fact, the only brackish cichlids that I know of are some of the Chromides from various parts of Asia.

Exactly. Ftw. This debate has now officially ended.

drfish wrote:
Saltwater tanks/fish may be generically "prettier" in most people's opinions but if you want more than something that's just nice to watch you should be looking into some of the more specialized freshwater options. For me that's Tanganyikan cichilds, I've also got a Malawi tank and some puffers in an Asia style setup.

TANGANYIKAN FTW!!! I just purchased a book for my fiance on that region alone. Those fish are incredible! I just wish our t. moori (firecracker) was more outgoing rather than being shy and hiding behind the slate rock so much.

drfish wrote:
The monster tank I'm building will be for Oscars and other Amazon big boys and my next tank after that will probably be a large brackish setup with mangroves growing out of the top...

Oh gawd. Please don't get involved with Oscar fish. They're the endall for the entire hobby of fish. They grow very large, they are the ultimate dirtiest fish ever. And they'll eat ANYTHING known to man.

drfish wrote:
Gleek,
We're going to have to talk at the BBQ. You've got a funky mix of fish going on there... :o Is your fancy yellow fish "electric yellow" by chance?

Haha heck yeah man! I'm bringing Beth with me too. I've already informed her of you and your hobby. She actually asked me if you are selling any of your older unused tanks? 55 gallon or large only.

As for the yellow fish, I'm pretty sure it's an electric yellow. But not 100% sure on that. I'll get back to ya.
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drfish
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:13 am

jss21382 wrote:
hey drfish....where would be a good place to go in our area if one were to want to get back into having an aquarium again, I haven't looked terribly hard but all I've really seen around here is chain stores


VI Pets is the best place around, the Holland one isn't so hot but the GR ones are AWESOME. I'd buy fish there but not other supplies though, I know you're supposed to support your local fish store but buying online is SO much cheaper. I figure if I save money on supplies I can spend more money on fish.

Although most of my fish lately have come from auctions and stuff, have you checked out the GVAC?
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drfish
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:26 am

thegleek wrote:
TANGANYIKAN FTW!!! I just purchased a book for my fiance on that region alone. Those fish are incredible! I just wish our t. moori (firecracker) was more outgoing rather than being shy and hiding behind the slate rock so much.


Yeah, I actually have the exact same fish, Tropheus are best kept in groups of at least 12 or more in a 65+ gallon tank. The 85 gallon I'm building will probably end up being the new home of my Tropheus and a colony of the same color variant if it holds water. BTW, this is the book for Tanganyikan Cichlids, I bought my copy just before they became hard to find...

thegleek wrote:
Oh gawd. Please don't get involved with Oscar fish. They're the endall for the entire hobby of fish. They grow very large, they are the ultimate dirtiest fish ever. And they'll eat ANYTHING known to man.


I know, I can't wait to get some! ;) I'm going to do the right though, none of the putting 6 babies in a 10 gallon crap that so many fools have done. I want a breeding pair, and they'll mostly have the huge tank to themselves, it's going to be awesome. :D

thegleek wrote:
Haha heck yeah man! I'm bringing Beth with me too. I've already informed her of you and your hobby. She actually asked me if you are selling any of your older unused tanks? 55 gallon or large only.

As for the yellow fish, I'm pretty sure it's an electric yellow. But not 100% sure on that. I'll get back to ya.


I don't have any tanks for sale, I'm more in the buying mode just now, if the tank I'm building still holds water by them time the BBQ rolls round we can talk about building a big tank for cheap.

I've got 6 Labidochromis caeruleus (electric yellows) in my 40 breeder with 15 Pseudotropheus demasoni, it's an awesome tank. :) I'll have to setup my fishcam again, I had a live streaming one going for awhile, I need a better quality webcam though, it looked pretty bad.
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