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paulWTAMU
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Re: Gun prOn!

Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:41 pm

A lack of sling makes no sense to me; I mean, apart from using them to shoot they make carrying so much easier.  
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:20 pm

As the stocks on the O-PAP are military surplus and therefore are not inletted for swivels to begin with, it makes sense that the Serbs wouldn't modify them, but I think they should have.
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paulWTAMU
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Re: Gun prOn!

Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:37 pm

I mean just as a generic design choice. Why on earth would you not want to give users an easy way to carry long arms?  
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:42 pm

Oh I hear you, I think it was a case of simple economics here though.
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:20 pm

This is a fantastic deal on .45 Auto 230 gr FMJ for $12 per box. Hell, it costs me about $8-11 a box to load it, depending on bullet type.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx? ... 0-17917501
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bthylafh
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:22 pm

Holy cow, that's a good deal. Shipping's pretty high to where I am, though: $15 for a single box of the stuff and it only goes up a little per additional box.
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Captain Ned
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:34 pm

.45 ACP is not a round I would expect a Serbian company to produce, even though that's a straight mil-spec load (FMJ).
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:39 pm

That surprises me, I think AIM is based out of Ohio which isn't terribly far from you. Oh well.
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Captain Ned
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:42 pm

Vrock wrote:
That surprises me, I think AIM is based out of Ohio which isn't terribly far from you. Oh well.

AIM may be selling it, but the underlying mfg (Prvi Partizan) is based in Serbia. Not a place I associate with .45 ACP.

And yes, as long as I live in VT I will need to apologize for Century Arms.
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:48 pm

PPU makes decent ammo at a good price, so I wouldn't let the Serbian roots dissuade you from purchasing. Or are you saying that the high shipping from AIM is a result of the shipping they paid to get the stuff from Europe?
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bthylafh
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:51 pm

I've gotten Prvi 7.5x55mm Swiss from them before and I don't /think/ shipping was that high last time. In fact I'm almost sure it wasn't because at the time it was about $13 for a 20-round box of the stuff and I wouldn't have bought just two or three boxes for that much shipping.
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paulWTAMU
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:58 pm

Damn, I just bought another 250 rounds of the stuff, I can't really justify this. Plus I also just spent money on diapers and meds for the youngest.  
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Captain Ned
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:01 pm

Vrock wrote:
PPU makes decent ammo at a good price, so I wouldn't let the Serbian roots dissuade you from purchasing. Or are you saying that the high shipping from AIM is a result of the shipping they paid to get the stuff from Europe?

No need to purchase yet, as the M1911A1 in my future still lives with Dad (along with at least 1000 empty brass, a crate of mil-spec bullets, and reloading powder that must be too old by now). I just somehow found it odd that a Euro company (land of 9mm) was producing the most American pistol round ever.
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:05 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
I just somehow found it odd that a Euro company (land of 9mm) was producing the most American pistol round ever.
I hear you. Sellier and Bellot is another Euro company (out of the Czech Republic) that makes good American ammo. I bought several boxes of their .45 probably 8 years ago, and the brass is *still* going strong.
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:06 pm

Wow that went quick, they are sold out already! :o
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DrDominodog51
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:21 am

[There was a long, personal, and slightly emotional explanation of why I'm doing this now, but I don't particularly feel like including it. I'm just including the tl;dr version here.]

tl;dr my old man is finally teaching me how to shoot a gun, but he sold his rifle a couple years back.

So, the point of this post is to pose two questions to you gun-loving gerbils.

1. What should I look for when I look at rifles? This rifle would be used for target shooting, possibly hunting later, and most importantly teaching me how to fire one. I was looking at a K31 before, but I know that fires moderately heavy rounds.

2. Does anyone know of a good gun safe? California law requires I possess one before I can purchase a firearm, and I should get one for safe storage of any rifle I get anyway.
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Frugal
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:11 am

There is no California law requiring a gun safe to buy a rifle.

If you don't own an approved safe you will have to buy a cable lock.

As for what rifle to buy, that is a personal preference thing and depending on what type of shooting you like and your budget some rifles will be more appropriate than others.

One thing I wouldn't do is buy a rifle that shoots an uncommon round. A K31 is 7.5 Swiss or something, not something you will find at Walmart.

If you can't learn to shoot and what you like before you buy, a Ruger 10-22 is a gun almost everyone has, it is cheap to buy and cheap to shoot. I went with a slightly less popular choice with a Marlin 60 I got for $50 at an estate auction.

Some cheap surplus rifles like Mosin Nagants can be OK or very bad. Some have ruined barrels that pattern like a shotgun, some have sticky bolts that require a hammer to reload.

If anything caches your eye, write the name and serial number down then go home and research the rifle before you buy. Local gun shops are almost universally known for selling some overpriced garbage guns so that reseach might save you money or headaches.

One more thing, your father might be a great teacher but you should look up the rules of gun safety and learn them well. If you are going to a gun range to shoot, look up their rules and learn them too. Do that and you won't be "that guy" at the range. You will probably be able to spend more time shooting too.
 
paulWTAMU
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:17 am

At this point, for a first rifle, I'd steer clear of milsurps in general unless you're simply interested in milsurps for the sake of them being military surplus (which is fine of course).  Something decent but inexepensive like an Axis II in a moderate caliber, or a Howa 1500, or Tikka light, or hell even the cheaper version of the Browning A bolt are all better shooters than most affordable milsurp guns unless you luck into a sweetheart deal. 


A decent inexpensive .22 also isn't a bad choice since .22 is actually back on shelves in most places or online; a 10/22, Marlin 60, Savage 64FP, hell there's lots of choices.
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DrDominodog51
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:09 am

Frugal wrote:
There is no California law requiring a gun safe to buy a rifle.
If you don't own an approved safe you will have to buy a cable lock.

I didn't know those would fulfill that requirement. Ignore question two then.
Frugal wrote:
As for what rifle to buy, that is a personal preference thing and depending on what type of shooting you like and your budget some rifles will be more appropriate than others.
One thing I wouldn't do is buy a rifle that shoots an uncommon round. A K31 is 7.5 Swiss or something, not something you will find at Walmart.

I haven't really thought about bullet availability. I'll be sure to consider when looking at guns now.
Frugal wrote:
If you can't learn to shoot and what you like before you buy, a Ruger 10-22 is a gun almost everyone has, it is cheap to buy and cheap to shoot. I went with a slightly less popular choice with a Marlin 60 I got for $50 at an estate auction.

paulWTAMU wrote:

A decent inexpensive .22 also isn't a bad choice since .22 is actually back on shelves in most places or online; a 10/22, Marlin 60, Savage 64FP, hell there's lots of choices.

I'll look into locally available .22 rifles.
Frugal wrote:
Some cheap surplus rifles like Mosin Nagants can be OK or very bad. Some have ruined barrels that pattern like a shotgun, some have sticky bolts that require a hammer to reload.

paulWTAMU wrote:
At this point, for a first rifle, I'd steer clear of milsurps in general unless you're simply interested in milsurps for the sake of them being military surplus (which is fine of course).

I'll put military surplus on my avoid list for now.
Frugal wrote:
If anything caches your eye, write the name and serial number down then go home and research the rifle before you buy. Local gun shops are almost universally known for selling some overpriced garbage guns so that research might save you money or headaches.

I'll be sure to do that.
Frugal wrote:

One more thing, your father might be a great teacher but you should look up the rules of gun safety and learn them well. If you are going to a gun range to shoot, look up their rules and learn them too. Do that and you won't be "that guy" at the range. You will probably be able to spend more time shooting too.

Okay. I'll be sure to do that as well.

I have a lot more research to do after this. Thanks for the advice guys.
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paulWTAMU
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:18 am

It's a tricky thing; I appreciate the hell out of milsurps...and of course they won't ever get any cheaper since they're not being made.  So if you're a history buff maybe a cheap milsurp plus a .22 since .22s tend to be inexpensive. Then you'd have the milsurp later in case the price gets even worse and/or they just flat out dry up?  But just as a first rifle, you want something that you can easily get ammo for and practice with affordably. And preferably one that doesn't kick like a pissed off mule.

There's more than a few milsurps that take 30-06 and 308 (Garands, Springfields,..hmmm) but they tend to be pricey.  IIRC both Garands and Springfields are both over a grand.
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:10 am

The best buy in milsurps is probably the Yugo Mausers (either M48 or M24/47) chambered in 8mm Mauser. That being said, I wouldn't recommend either to a new shooter.

The Remington 783 comes in 30-06, .308, and 270 Win, with a 3x9 power scope for under $400. With recoil managed factory loads or mild handloads, this can be an excellent hunting rifle. It lacks iron sights though.
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:15 am

Trying something different. There's a relatively new coating on the market in the US called Hi-Tek, and over the last couple years lots of lead bullet companies have started using it. Apparently it was invented in Australia and has been used there for 20 years. It's a polymer coating that completely encapsulates the lead bullet. This reduces one's exposure to lead, eliminates the need for bullet lube, and dramatically reduces the smoke that's generated from firing traditionally lubed lead bullets. They're cheaper than FMJ and plated. I bought a bunch for the 45 and I'm loading some up. Here's the finished product. The lead bullet on the right is one of my home cast bullets. The coating comes in different colors which is nice for sorting loads by lot, velocity, etc. We'll see how they shoot next weekend. Guy I work with shoots IPSC open class, and he swears by these bullets as a cheap practice round at velocities up to 1,400 with no leading. If they shoot well, I'll never buy another FMJ or lead bullet for my handguns.

Image
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paulWTAMU
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:44 am

huh. Can you buy them in factory loads?
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:41 pm

I don't think so, at least not from any of the big manufacturers.
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Darkmage
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Re: Gun prOn!

Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:07 pm

I am intrigued. Please let us know your results. I don't cast my own bullets, but if I can buy lead bullets and do my own coating, that might be worth it.
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:46 am

Actually you can buy them already coated from several manufacturers, that's what I did here. I might get into coating my own at some point if we see another shortage, but in the meantime Missouri bullet, SNS Casting, Bayou Bullets, Acme bullets, etc. all offer them pre-coated. They're a couple bucks more than the regular old lead ones. I'm hitting the range this weekend.
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:52 am

Shot the red coated 45s from www.acmebullet.com today, accuracy was superb under 5 grains of Bullseye and zero leading/smoke. These should be hitting around 830-850 fps per book. I did have two malfunctions (FTF) with my Colt Series 70, which is very unusual. I seated these around 1.272", which is on the longer side, and I usually seat 45s to 1.25-1.26 so that could be a factor. At times I thought I smelled a faint odor of burned plastic, but I may have imagined it.

I also loaded up some good Minor 9mm loads using 125gr coated bullets from www.thebluebullets.com. They have their own proprietary coating. These shot perfectly through my Walther P1. I selected this pistol because it has an oversized bore, so if there was going to be accuracy or leading problems they would have happened here. Great accuracy, zero leading. I didn't detect any plastic smell with these rounds.

All in all, these bullets merit further shooting, and some additional testing with the 45. I will shoot up all I have and likely buy more.
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:12 pm

It gets better. Clean up was easier. No lead to remove. No copper fouling to remove. And yes, no melted plastic to remove, either. Barrels cleaned up in about half the time, and that's being picky with carbon.
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paulWTAMU
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Re: Gun prOn!

Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:48 pm

About 3 hours at the range.


1: 357 magnum tears up bricks and cinderlblocks. That was fun to do.

2: I need to upgrade the sights and I thinks lick up the lever on it. I'm great to 40-50 yards but afte rthat not so much. Lever got kinda rough after about 100 rounds. Was running crappy tulammo though.

3: trying to hit a 5" gong at 50 yards with a 1911 is hard as hell. I managed less than one in ten. Need to practice that ytpe of range more.

4:  357 carbines kick even less than AR-15s.

5: I need more gun bags and ammo.  

6: deer are annoying. Season doesn't start for another 6 weeks, and there was a good herd at the 50 yardl ine when I pulled up to the range early this AM
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Vrock
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Re: Gun prOn!

Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:28 pm

50 yards, 5 inch target with a 1911? Better you than me. Most 1911s do about 2" groups at 25 yards, making the margin of error at 50 yards very tiny.
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