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Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:00 pm

FubbHead wrote:
Vrock wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
To be perfectly honest, the whole slow, disparaging style of Alien/Aliens was too "2001: A Space Odyssey"-ish for me. Too slow, and at times dull. Different generations, I guess.
OK, I can *almost* agree that parts of Alien dragged, but Aliens? Once they get into space it's balls to the wall action.

Kids these days, I tell you. If there isn't an explosion every five seconds and gallons of stage blood sprayed across the screen, it's "slow" or "dull". Feh. :roll:

Isn't 80-90% of Aliens *not* in space? But yeah, how you can call it dull is beyond me aswell.. :-)
Keep in mind that Alien is not just a violent+action movie. It's also supposed to have a major horror component too. So you've got to build up the suspense and horror, like those other horror flicks.
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Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:48 pm

Am i the only one that actually didnt have any expectaions on the first AvP and thought it was a decent action flick and keep it separate from the original Alien triology. And no, the fourth film doesnt count, it was just a moneygrabbing scheme.
 
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Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:56 pm

Even Alien Resurrection was better than AvP, and that's saying something because Resurrection was *not* a good movie. AvP was a movie for comic book reading teenagers, what with its silly plot, heroine, and PG-13 rating. Not for one minute did I feel like I was watching a real Alien or Predator movie.
 
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Re: Can it be true? AvP the second actually looks good?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:07 pm

Vrock wrote:
Mr. Bamboo Head wrote:
Sargent Duck wrote:
Sure, I was thinking, probably another steaming pile of filth like the first one was.

what?? the first AvP was awesome!
Let me guess...you're about 21 years old, and you've never seen (or didn't like) the original Alien and/or Predator? Am I right?

oh i friggin loved Alien and Aliens. and predator 1&2. different style completely from AvP tho; they were all 80's/90's action/horror/slasher/scifi flicks. AvP was a mainstream cgi action movie with predators kickin some alien ass. how is that a bad thing? unless you think it needed more profanity, butch chicks and cheesy lines...
 
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Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:15 pm

AvP needed more P's and less humans. If its really Aliens versus Predators, leave the humans out (unless they're being used in the movie for the sole purpose of incubating aliens).

I didn't even watch the last 20 minutes of AvP, so I have no idea how it ended.
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Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:59 pm

lex-ington wrote:
I didn't even watch the last 20 minutes of AvP, so I have no idea how it ended.


Funny you should say that. I did watch the last 20 minutes, and I have no idea how it ended either.

And the Aliens series (not counting the 4th) was more horror than action. Aliens less so than the other 2, because the marines had some weaponry, but they were still no match for what they were up against...
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Re: Can it be true? AvP the second actually looks good?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:05 pm

Mr. Bamboo Head wrote:
AvP was a mainstream cgi action movie with predators kickin some alien ass. how is that a bad thing?


The problem for me was how they deviated so much from the "guidlines" laid down in the first two alien and predator movies. That, and I wanted to see some real Alien vs. Predator fighting. Waaay too many humans wondering about. All the humans should have been killed off right at the start.
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Re: Can it be true? AvP the second actually looks good?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:37 am

Mr. Bamboo Head wrote:
oh i friggin loved Alien and Aliens. and predator 1&2. different style completely from AvP tho; they were all 80's/90's action/horror/slasher/scifi flicks.
Then there's the problem. You recognize that the original Aliens and Predator movies AvP were in a different class. They weren't dumb, CGI'd action movies where lots of pretty people wandered around and said and did PG-13 things.
Mr. Bamboo Head wrote:
a mainstream cgi action movie with predators kickin some alien ass. how is that a bad thing? unless you think it needed more profanity, butch chicks and cheesy lines...
Cheesy lines? Please. AvP was totally hokey, and CGI does not a good movie make. The movie was not faithful to the style and atmosphere of the other movies.
 
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Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:00 pm

Well I went to Blockbuster and Rented Alien3 and Alien: Resurrection. We'll see if they are any good :D
 
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Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:14 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Well I went to Blockbuster and Rented Alien3 and Alien: Resurrection. We'll see if they are any good :D

Sorry, but you rented the wrong 2 Alien movies.
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Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:15 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Well I went to Blockbuster and Rented Alien3 and Alien: Resurrection. We'll see if they are any good :D

Sorry, but you rented the wrong 2 Alien movies.

I've already seen the first 2. I figured I'd enjoy them at least. I'm pretty easy to entertain. If only I'd remember to get Predator 2 instead of "Astronaut Farmer", alas.
 
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Re: Can it be true? AvP the second actually looks good?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:01 pm

Vrock wrote:
Mr. Bamboo Head wrote:
oh i friggin loved Alien and Aliens. and predator 1&2. different style completely from AvP tho; they were all 80's/90's action/horror/slasher/scifi flicks.
Then there's the problem. You recognize that the original Aliens and Predator movies AvP were in a different class. They weren't dumb, CGI'd action movies where lots of pretty people wandered around and said and did PG-13 things.
Mr. Bamboo Head wrote:
a mainstream cgi action movie with predators kickin some alien ass. how is that a bad thing? unless you think it needed more profanity, butch chicks and cheesy lines...
Cheesy lines? Please. AvP was totally hokey, and CGI does not a good movie make. The movie was not faithful to the style and atmosphere of the other movies.

i can agree with that :wink:
 
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Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:12 pm

Ok...here's my Alien(s) story. When I was a teenager I really liked an album by Steve Stevens and The Atomic Playboys. I especially liked the album cover art. So I did some research to see who the artist was. Turns out it was HR Giger who also designed the aliens in the Alien(s) movies. That guy does some wicked/cool/weird art!

Also I didn't hate AvP. :roll:
Last edited by JJCDAD on Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:12 pm

That trailer looked like the first AvP plus a lot of gore. Not a whole lot to get my hopes up over.
 
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Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:13 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Well I went to Blockbuster and Rented Alien3 and Alien: Resurrection. We'll see if they are any good :D

Sorry, but you rented the wrong 2 Alien movies.

I've already seen the first 2. I figured I'd enjoy them at least. I'm pretty easy to entertain. If only I'd remember to get Predator 2 instead of "Astronaut Farmer", alas.
Alien3 had potential, but in the end it felt like a cross between Alien and Aliens. It's a classic example of how you can have too much of a good thing. I don't think it was nearly as horrible as some people made it out to me (except for the ending, which sucks) but it just feels tired.
 
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Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:20 pm

I'm totally sold on the Alien series.

I really don't think any one of them is bad, or worse than the other, they're all good in their own way. They cover a spectra of styles; Alien is more horror, Aliens more action, Alien3 a lovely post-apocalyptic piece and Alien:Resurrection the more lighthearted. They all rule.
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Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:28 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Well I went to Blockbuster and Rented Alien3 and Alien: Resurrection. We'll see if they are any good :D

Sorry, but you rented the wrong 2 Alien movies.


Sorry, but the real Alien movies are in another castle.
 
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Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:49 pm

I may be synthetic... but I'm not stupid.
 
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Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:18 pm

Vrock wrote:
Alien3 had potential, but in the end it felt like a cross between Alien and Aliens. It's a classic example of how you can have too much of a good thing. I don't think it was nearly as horrible as some people made it out to me (except for the ending, which sucks) but it just feels tired.


Spoilers for Alien 3 below

My biggest issue with Alien 3 were characters. There was nobody I cared about. The marine and Newt (both of who the audience came to care about at the end of Aliens) were killed off. That leaves a bunch of criminals. The one guy who I actually start caring about (the medical guy), and who starts having a relationship with Ripley, is the first to get killed off. So, this leaves a bunch of guys getting picked off one-by-one, who the audience doesn't care about. There is no character building, and I really don't care about the criminals. Ripley can't get hurt, so she's never threatened.

Hero who can't die + characters nobody cares about + no character development = bad movie. It wasn't even all that suspenseful
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Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:02 am

Well I personally enjoyed these 2 as well. It wasn't quite as corny as the second one, IMHO. In my mind, all 4 of them flow decently well, and I wouldn't, based on seeing each one once, think of them as all that different from each other.

That said, I thought it was cool that Joss Whedon was involved in it. 8)
 
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Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:31 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
That said, I thought it was cool that Joss Whedon was involved in it. 8)
He was? That explains why it sucked.
 
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Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:09 am

Vrock wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
That said, I thought it was cool that Joss Whedon was involved in it. 8)
He was? That explains why it sucked.


Yeah, he helped write the story for Aliens 4:Resurrection
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Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:58 pm

Vrock wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
That said, I thought it was cool that Joss Whedon was involved in it. 8)
He was? That explains why it sucked.


heretic :)

on the plus side, avp had the best/most baffling quote in all of cinematic history:

"What if we show you pictures of other peoples' kids?"

I mean, seriously? what the christ?

I had an avp marathon 2 weeks ago (ie, every alien/pred film (director's cuts) in chronological order) - it's easy to forget how face-meltingly awesome alien and aliens are. it's a shame that the marathon reached it's peak (Aliens) when there were still 2 films to go... made the last 4/5 hours quite grueling!
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Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:06 pm

Aliens is a masterpiece.
 
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Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:08 pm

jiminyjetson wrote:
Vrock wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
That said, I thought it was cool that Joss Whedon was involved in it. 8)
He was? That explains why it sucked.


heretic :)

on the plus side, avp had the best/most baffling quote in all of cinematic history:

"What if we show you pictures of other peoples' kids?"

I mean, seriously? what the christ?


I don't think Whedon sucks, but I do think Firefly and Buffy the Emo Vampire Slayer were a bit overrated. I'm curious what parts he wrote in Aliens IV. I'm sure it wasn't "the good part" because there was no good part.
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jiminyjetson
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Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:32 pm

I am going to sulk until that comment about Firefly is taken back.
.......


.........

...........

No? fine then...
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Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:43 pm

pyrodeus wrote:
jiminyjetson wrote:
Vrock wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
That said, I thought it was cool that Joss Whedon was involved in it. 8)

I don't think Whedon sucks, but I do think Firefly and Buffy the Emo Vampire Slayer were a bit overrated.

2 things:
Don't judge Firefly by Serenity, because it was a way better TV show than movie.
Don't judge Buffy by, well, Buffy. :lol:

If you still think they were overrated, you are a bad person.
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jiminyjetson
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Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm

thread derail train! choooo choooo! :)

Buffy did have its moments of brilliance - generally due to snippets of very clever scripting, but on average, it's just 'good', rather than excellent, imo. i found a lot of the content to be Joss Whedon clinging to the dream that he's not a balding middle-aged geek, but instead 'in touch' with 'the kids', as it were.
Firefly however, was a masterpiece. there is not one episode which isn't downright excellent. There's never a bad line, a poorly-conceived scene, an out-of character moment. the casting, acting, scripting and effects are all superb. I can't ever see myself stopping watching it. Those 14 episodes are something special. This was Joss Whedon's dream - and it shows in every single scene.

And that'll conclude today's episode of 'Jiminy Jetson: Firefly fanboi'
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maxxcool wrote:
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pyrodeus
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Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:10 pm

jiminyjetson wrote:
thread derail train! choooo choooo! :)

Buffy did have its moments of brilliance - generally due to snippets of very clever scripting, but on average, it's just 'good', rather than excellent, imo. i found a lot of the content to be Joss Whedon clinging to the dream that he's not a balding middle-aged geek, but instead 'in touch' with 'the kids', as it were.
Firefly however, was a masterpiece. there is not one episode which isn't downright excellent. There's never a bad line, a poorly-conceived scene, an out-of character moment. the casting, acting, scripting and effects are all superb. I can't ever see myself stopping watching it. Those 14 episodes are something special. This was Joss Whedon's dream - and it shows in every single scene.

And that'll conclude today's episode of 'Jiminy Jetson: Firefly fanboi'


It was entertaining, for the most part, and I though there were a few excellent episodes (the one where they stole the early model laser and that one with the bounty hunter Jubal Early were among those, though with the latter in part I was tickled by the civil war reference of his name), but there were also a few that were just "okay" imo. Not to knock the show entirely. It was probably the best sci-fi on at the time (when it was sci-fi...sometimes Whedon seemed to forget he wasn't making a western), but I can't agree that every episode was excellent, let alone praise every single scene.

The one where they rip off medicine from the space train was not excellent. It was kind of dull. The one where they have to deliver their old war buddy's "body" to his family had plenty of moments of sappy sentimentality apart from its silly premise. The one where they had to save the whore house from the local bully was another dull one (not to mention not especially original). There's a scene where the space hooker, Inara, sobs uncontrollable after Captain Solo...whoops! I mean Reynolds (how on earth could I make that silly mistake?) has sex with another woman. It was plainly designed to make you feel bad for her, but my friends and I laughed. I reiterate, the space hooker is upset that the man she has an unexpressed thing for has sex with another person...and Whedon was apparently serious.

The Han Solo thing really did get to me after a while too. I often felt like writing Whedon to say "I GET IT! That captain has a heart of gold but hides it under his gruff and world-weary exterior. Also, I understand that he and the space hooker are in love but hide that behind a veneer of low grade hostility and petty bickering. I got it when I saw it in Star Wars too!" The main difference between Solo and Reynolds is that Reynold's beloved rebellion lost and he's still nursing the wounds.

The dialogue in Firefly was clever (as it often was on Buffy the Vampire Slayer), and unlike the West Wing (where the dialogue was I think more clever) each bit of dialogue did seem to match the character speaking it for the most part (on the West Wing, all the characters often sounded the same).

Why was space in the future always like the Old West (with a smattering of Chinese curse words thrown in)? I recognize that Han Solo was essentially a western character (right down to his clothes), but was there any more sensible reason given? Take the train robbery episode. Laying track to operate a train is very expensive and laborious...why would they do it in a world with inexpensive interplanetary travel? Just to slow things down? Goods and people were making it to the next town too quickly? So they smelted tons of iron, made creosote, cut tens of thousands of wooden railway ties and sent thousands of men out to lay down railroad tracks? It seemed to me that the sole reason for the railroad was to make things seem "westernish", and it left me a bit unsatisfied.

Then there were the episodes where I didn't see much scifi being involved (like "Jaynestown") they land in a space ship, then they hold a old fashioned 1950's era western (albeit an very implausible one), and then they fly away in a spaceship at the end. Perhaps the western thing was an homage to the original Star Trek (where they often just inserted obviously unrealistic genres into episodes--like the Nazi planet, the Prohibition planet, the Native American planet, the planet that somehow happened to look just like Earth, but where the communists took over after a nuclear war, etc.) Still, the show needed more variety. The mythic Old West only existed (to the extent it did at all) in one region of North America and only for about 40 years or so, it's hard to see why it would be the one and only model every planetary society would adopt 500 years from now.

So, good show, but I think it had its flaws. If I had my choice between bringing Firefly back to the air or keeping Battlestar Galactica on the air, I'd have to side with BSG.
For a moment of night we have a glimpse of ourselves and of our world islanded in its stream of stars—pilgrims of mortality, voyaging between horizons across eternal seas of space and time.
--Henry Beston, The Outermost House
 
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Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:34 pm

AvP fails terrible even at trying to be what it is.

I knew it was going to be terrible, so my friends and I waited until it came out on DVD, and rented it. We were expecting a mindless action movie, with two key elements (1) Good action, (2) lots of explosions. AvP failed terribly at the first one.

First off two of the three Aliens die in about 2 minutes of action. Well great, now the whole movie is about killing one creature, two of which died in minutes.

Secondly how does some random woman even survive the encounter? She isn't Arnold Schwarzenegger, she doesn't outsmart anything, she doesn't have an android helping her.

Also the CGI sucked, the Aliens looked better in the first two movies.

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