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pikaporeon
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Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:35 pm

K so I bought a Mazda 3... or SO I WAS LED TO BELIEVE

They didn't approve my financing.
I payed my deposit ($500) on my visa.
Erin Mills Mazda says "Because of all the paperwork, you lose half of that. Also you need to bring that in cash."

I have a few issues with this
1: They said my financing would be no problem [$300/week is my pay - not great but they said it wouldn't be a problem]. After recieving pay information [stating I make that; though my boss signed off for my pay per 4 weeks - $1244] I was rejected. I was never under the impression if financing wouldn't work I'd be out some pay.

2: I signed nothing until AFTER my deposit was already payed. Even then i dont recall signing anything about forfeiting any of that deposit. And lets face it, I'm not going out of pocket $250 for not receiving anything. Especially as I was supposedly going to get my deposit fully back after I recieved my vehicle. Did the paperwork not matter once they make their profit off me?




Any tips?
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:39 pm

Hmm... Screwed out of $250? Maybe get your credit card company involved.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:40 pm

Call your credit card company and dispute the charge.
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pikaporeon
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:41 pm

Thats been the advice I've been getting fairly uniformly.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:43 pm

You cannot pay a down payment if the car isn't delivered. Man, I'd find a nice hungry lawyer. Sounds like easy pickins.
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pikaporeon
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:45 pm

its not a down payment, its a deposit to secure the car for me.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:47 pm

I don't know enough about Canadian/Ontario law, so make the credit card company do your dirty work. Formally dispute the charge, as doing so will force the dealership to legally justify why it's keeping $250. Tell us what they say and an army of jailhouse lawyers will start working on Ontario law.

EDIT: Keeping half of a deposit because the financing fell through?? You need copies of every document you signed while you were there. Dispute the charge now.

EDIT 2: FInd out what you can from CA- or ON-based sites about the legality of what's known as "spot delivery".

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pikaporeon
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:58 pm

This isn't even spot delivery as I haven't recieved an automobile.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:17 pm

The fact they're asking for the amount as cash says to me they're not confident of getting the money from your credit card company if you dispute the charge.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:18 pm

That's what I was thinking. It's very shady / underthetable-esque.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:27 pm

I'm actually really interested in this as well. I just moved to Ontario last summer and all though I have a car, it'd be good to know.

But yeah, get your credit card company involved. They want to have a monopoly on being the only ones that can screw you :)
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:30 pm

I think you should get LOUD with them, so that other customers hear (if there are any :roll: ). Threaten legal action, tell them what they are doing is criminal, ask to speak to the manager, tell them they are a f'ing joke and a bunch of criminals. Until you get your money back, picket their side walk with signs that say "Criminal Enterprise At Work", "Con-Men Work here" etc.

edit: tell the manager that you will have to speak with his supervision and discuss the illegal activites going on there.
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pikaporeon
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:37 pm

I've been told it may be relevant that i was never given any copies of paperwork; aside from the $500 reciept form y deposit.
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pikaporeon
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:52 pm

This stuff may be relevant, from the ontario Consumer Protection Act

Ambiguities to benefit consumer

11. Any ambiguity that allows for more than one reasonable interpretation of a consumer agreement provided by the supplier to the consumer or of any information that must be disclosed under this Act shall be interpreted to the benefit of the consumer. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 11.

Charging consumers for assistance

12. No person shall charge a consumer for assisting the consumer to obtain any benefit, right or protection to which the consumer is entitled under this Act, unless, before the consumer agrees to pay the charge, the person discloses the entitlement’s existence and direct availability to the consumer and the cost, if any, the consumer would be required to pay for the entitlement if the consumer obtained the entitlement directly. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 12.

Unsolicited goods or services: relief from legal obligations

13. (1) Except as provided in this section, a recipient of unsolicited goods or services has no legal obligation in respect of their use or disposal. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 13 (1).


Refund

(7) A supplier who receives a demand for a refund under subsection (6) shall refund the payment within the prescribed period of time. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 13 (7).

Consumer may commence action

(8) The consumer who made the payment may commence an action to recover the payment in accordance with section 100. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 13 (8).


Rescinding agreement

18. (1) Any agreement, whether written, oral or implied, entered into by a consumer after or while a person has engaged in an unfair practice may be rescinded by the consumer and the consumer is entitled to any remedy that is available in law, including damages. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 18 (1).


Requirements for future performance agreements

22. Every future performance agreement shall be in writing, shall be delivered to the consumer and shall be made in accordance with the prescribed requirements. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 22.

Cancelling future performance agreements

23. A consumer may cancel a future performance agreement within one year after the date of entering into the agreement if the consumer does not receive a copy of the agreement that meets the requirements required by section 22. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 23.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:55 pm

eric93se wrote:
I think you should get LOUD with them, so that other customers hear (if there are any :roll: ). Threaten legal action, tell them what they are doing is criminal, ask to speak to the manager, tell them they are a f'ing joke and a bunch of criminals. Until you get your money back, picket their side walk with signs that say "Criminal Enterprise At Work", "Con-Men Work here" etc.

edit: tell the manager that you will have to speak with his supervision and discuss the illegal activites going on there.

I wouldn't. Given the current economy and credit contraction, it's entirely possible a given car dealership won't even be open next week regardless of what you do, and then your $250 is as gone as if you had lit it on fire. As others have indicated, document everything and dispute the credit charge. If you want to take it a step further, go to the Better Business Bureau (they have a Canadian presence although I don't know how much weight it carries, having never lived there).

If you want to keep going after that, report the business practice to your town/city's chamber of commerce, if they have one, or discuss it with your local city councilman. Have your documentation handy as evidence, including proof of a disputed charge. Local businesses require municipal sales tax licenses and other niceties in order to operate, and evidence of shaky financial practices could very quickly turn into a nice fat tax audit.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:47 pm

Additionally, you may want to try going back to the dealership and demanding copy of every document you signed. What are they going to say? "No, you can't have a copy of our agreement?"
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:23 pm

Sometimes there's a non-refundable credit check fee (it can cost the dealer/seller to check your credit), but it should have been made very clear to you that it was non-refundable, and it never should have cost $250. At most it should have been around $30 or $50, something like that.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:56 pm

Rakhmaninov3 wrote:
Sometimes there's a non-refundable credit check fee (it can cost the dealer/seller to check your credit), but it should have been made very clear to you that it was non-refundable, and it never should have cost $250. At most it should have been around $30 or $50, something like that.

Onyl time its refundable status was mentioenmd was "Dont worry about it, it'll be right back to you when you get your car"
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:03 am

pikaporeon wrote:
Onyl time its refundable status was mentioenmd was "Dont worry about it, it'll be right back to you when you get your car"

For me the deposit got returned in the way of a reduced final balance.

Is Silverman still helping people? A little media attention will definitely help speed things along.
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pikaporeon
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:51 am

Flying Fox wrote:
pikaporeon wrote:
Onyl time its refundable status was mentioenmd was "Dont worry about it, it'll be right back to you when you get your car"

For me the deposit got returned in the way of a reduced final balance.

Is Silverman still helping people? A little media attention will definitely help speed things along.

I was actually told they could do that but dont regularly do that when they return deposits. I had asked "can't I just put the $500 towards the first payment when I get it back?"
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:00 am

pikaporeon wrote:
K so I bought a Mazda 3... or SO I WAS LED TO BELIEVE

They didn't approve my financing.
I payed my deposit ($500) on my visa.
Erin Mills Mazda says "Because of all the paperwork, you lose half of that. Also you need to bring that in cash."

I have a few issues with this
1: They said my financing would be no problem [$300/week is my pay - not great but they said it wouldn't be a problem]. After recieving pay information [stating I make that; though my boss signed off for my pay per 4 weeks - $1244] I was rejected. I was never under the impression if financing wouldn't work I'd be out some pay.

2: I signed nothing until AFTER my deposit was already payed. Even then i dont recall signing anything about forfeiting any of that deposit. And lets face it, I'm not going out of pocket $250 for not receiving anything. Especially as I was supposedly going to get my deposit fully back after I recieved my vehicle. Did the paperwork not matter once they make their profit off me?




Any tips?


In the States I would have called the Attorney Generals office. Do you have a similar construct in Canada? Do you have a Better Business Bureau? Does your local TV station have an investigative reporter? (setup a sting operation man!)
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:03 am

pikaporeon wrote:
Rakhmaninov3 wrote:
Sometimes there's a non-refundable credit check fee (it can cost the dealer/seller to check your credit), but it should have been made very clear to you that it was non-refundable, and it never should have cost $250. At most it should have been around $30 or $50, something like that.

Onyl time its refundable status was mentioenmd was "Dont worry about it, it'll be right back to you when you get your car"


Which I read to be: If you don't get the car, you won't get the money. Plain as day...
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pikaporeon
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:49 am

Went in today, they claimed as I signed to purchase the car I'm listed as the first owner and its now "used" - I dont see HOW as that should be a voided contract as I never recieved vehicle (as I never paid for it either)..

that said they're desperate to retain my business so they are supposedly crediting my account at 3 pm [Their accounting dept wasnt around and I had to go to class].

If I dont see +500 to my account by 6 tonight I'll be calling my card company.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:52 pm

If you never took delivery, I don't see how it can possibly be considered "used". Sounds like they're a bunch of scam artists.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:59 pm

Yup, these guys sound like liars and cheats. They'll say anything to get money out of you. Once you get your refund back, go anywhere BUT that place when it comes time to buy a car.

On a different note, why finance? Getting yourself buried in debt is not the only way to buy a car. Instead, you could buy a cheap car with cash, save the car payment you would have paid, a year later buy a better car with cash, keep saving the car payment you would have made, a year later buy an even better car with cash, etc.

And in that entire period, you will be driving a car with absolutely no debt attached to it. Also keep in mind that a new car loses 70% of its value in the first four years. Buying a nice used car is a much smarter financial decision.
 
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:10 pm

This dealership sounds like an even bigger scam job than the place my family used to buy Toyotas here in NYC. Once you get your money back, never go near there again, and make sure they're not associated with other dealerships in the area where you might also go (the Toyota dealership that we try to avoid not only owns Toyota dealerships, but Nissan as well, so beware).
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:14 pm

You wouldn't have this problem if you hadn't tried to buy a car you couldn't afford.
 
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:23 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
You wouldn't have this problem if you hadn't tried to buy a car you couldn't afford.


Comments like yours and jinjuku's bring about complete rage within me. It is so smug and self-righteous.
 
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:25 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
You wouldn't have this problem if you hadn't tried to buy a car you couldn't afford.


Who said he couldn't? We don't know what the terms of the financing were. Mazda 3s start at 15k according to their website, I recall buying my first new vehicle making the same amount of cash he is and the sticker was 19k for mine.

There is also the issue of a company not seeing a credit history even though the individual makes enough to afford the payment.

I'm guessing he knew what the payment was, how much he makes and knew he could afford it. Obviously someone else didn't agree or is just trying to scam him.

Nice belittling comment when you don't know all the details.
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Re: Being Fleeced by my local Mazda dealer?

Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:29 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
You wouldn't have this problem if you hadn't tried to buy a car you couldn't afford.

Now is not the time to be quoting Polonius.
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