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Gandolf
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Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:39 am

I know this is a tech site, but I was hoping some people here may have some knowledge on this subject.
Ok so here is the deal, for the past 3 years I have pretty much become nothing. I lost my drive to do anything, sex, working out, going out. And it isn't lazyness, as it is literally 0 energy. I still play basketball or racquetball once or twice a week, but even doing that my energy level is barely there anymore. I am not a fat slob or anything and it isn't my cholesterol lvls. I am only 30 years old and my testerone level was 350. Now from what I have read this falls in the "acceptable" range, and my doctor told me it was ok to be that. But just ok when it comes to my quality of life seems dissapointing to say the least. I have tried other ways to up my energy, eating healthier and trying to work out but nothing works, and my lack of sex drive makes my girlfriend none to pleased. Apparently the 350 is the average Test level of a 75 year old man. The average for my age is 669.

Does anyone know if I actually goto a endocrinologist if they would do anything to help, or am I going to be stuck suffering because I am in what they may consider an acceptable range?
 
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:47 am

I would broaden the search. It could be testosterone level, but there are a lot of things that can cause a decrease in testosterone level. Are you on any sort of vitamin or supplement or prescription? How about depression or emotions? Flat affect can be a symptom of things, with physiological indicators you have mentioned.
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Gandolf
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:54 am

TheEmrys wrote:
I would broaden the search. It could be testosterone level, but there are a lot of things that can cause a decrease in testosterone level. Are you on any sort of vitamin or supplement or prescription? How about depression or emotions? Flat affect can be a symptom of things, with physiological indicators you have mentioned.


I don't have depression. I do have thalassemia which can cause tiredness, but the changes in how exhausted I have been in the last few years seem to point that this is no longer the cause. It may be aiding to why I feel so groggy though.
 
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:00 am

The only person qualified to read the results of a blood panel to determine if you have low testosterone is an endocrinologist. Even general practice / PCP are known to get it wrong. The test i'm told is not something that is as black and white as the results may seem to suggest. Further, it's rather common now to see commercials for "Low-T" in order to push a pharacuetical agenda, but I digress.

The first thing I would do is schedule an endocrinologist appointment - they are specialized to work with this sort of thing. I would not trust the results interpreted by your gen practitioner for something like this. It's the same reason I go to an ENT when I get a sinus infection instead of my PCP. Your number cannot be directly compared to a 75 year old man in any case. Yes Test levels do drop with age, but it's not as significant as most would have you believe. The take home should be that your levels are your levels, they cannot be compared apples to apples to anyone else or any age group. That's what a endocrinologist will bring to the table that a gen practitioner will not.

The second thing I would do be real with yourself. Chances are that your T levels are in fact normal and fine. Can you supplement test? Sure. Just know the risks are that the possibility exists that your body stops producing its own. There are also risks of enlarged organ size, Gynecomastia, atrophy of the testicles and more. I personally don't subscribe to roid-rage, but it does have an affect on your mood. If you're already an unhappy and angry person, it could amplify that.

Lastly, you mentioned attempting to fix diet and exercise, both of which are so key to looking and feeling good. I just turned 30 myself and I'm stronger and better looking now than at 18. Never had my levels checked or anything but I feel great.

My advice as a non-medical professional is this:

Make small, gradual changes to diet and exercise. Don't try to start hitting the gym every day for 2 hours and eating everything that tastes new or bad to you. It'll never work, you will fail and hate yourself. Start slow. Hit the gym 3 times a week for 1-1.5 hours. Set specific goals (ie I want to add X lbs to my bench, I want to run this much, etc). Log your meals with something like myfitnesspal. Don't set any caloric restrictions, just log what you eat every day so you know what you want to change. This will break down your calories, sugar, protein, carbs etc so you can tailor your shopping list to whatever your goals are. If you like weight training, choose a beginner routine and stick to the program 100%, don't change anything.

It takes time to build a habit to the point where it's not work but something you look forward to. Love yourself, accept your failures, and struggle for the person you want to be tomorrow. Diet and Exercise, specifically weight training helped me more than anything to feel better and break out of my funk. If that doesn't do it for you, perhaps you could talk to mental health professional which is usually the flip side of people who believe they have low-T. Displeasure with one's self, appearance, job outlook, finance, relationships, etc are all ways to bring yourself down if they aren't up the some pristine standard you believe you have to achieve. My personal guess is that your T levels are probably fine, if you're convinced otherwise I would really talk to an endocrinologist as they are highly specialized in this field. Good luck, and if you want some tough love stop back and fill your inbox with some Sgt. Hartman-typed insults. Take care.
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:01 am

I'm no doctor, but I have a good friend who is in her third year studying to be one. She says:
Could be anything - hypothyroid, anemia (he already has thalassemia), maybe he doesn't have enough cholesterol to make testosterone. Who knows? Smoking?
 
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:03 am

Gandolf wrote:
TheEmrys wrote:
I would broaden the search. It could be testosterone level, but there are a lot of things that can cause a decrease in testosterone level. Are you on any sort of vitamin or supplement or prescription? How about depression or emotions? Flat affect can be a symptom of things, with physiological indicators you have mentioned.


I don't have depression. I do have thalassemia which can cause tiredness, but the changes in how exhausted I have been in the last few years seem to point that this is no longer the cause. It may be aiding to why I feel so groggy though.


I should have asked outright - How many hours of sleep do you get? I can't do the 5-6 hours anymore. 8+ for me makes a world of difference.
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:12 am

I'm with steelcity_ballin on the sleep thing. As soon as I turned 30 I started needing more than the typical 6+ I was getting. I don't go 8+, but a solid 7-7.5 is necessary for me to feel normal now.
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Gandolf
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:25 am

Duct Tape Dude wrote:
I'm no doctor, but I have a good friend who is in her third year studying to be one. She says:
Could be anything - hypothyroid, anemia (he already has thalassemia), maybe he doesn't have enough cholesterol to make testosterone. Who knows? Smoking?

Yes I do have anemia. Sad. But like I said this has gotten considerably worse during the last few years.
I don't smoke, and I had my cholesterol and thyroid checked last time I went to get my testosterone test..

As far as sleep per night it varys but normally around 7-8. I will say I do not sleep solid through the night, I do turn back and forth a lot.
 
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:31 am

Hi,
Just an opinion, but talk to your doctor as well. In general, low T (aka hypogonadism) is a common question general practioners face in their office. The patient has some variety of symptoms and wonders if its due to lack of testosterone. In general the symptoms are loss of libido, erectile dysfunction, depression and fatigue. However, these symptoms overlap with a lot of other much more common conditions particularly run of the mill depression. The more specific signs of low T are the signs of essentially having an unbalanced amount of estrogen. Such signs are hot flashes, muscle wasting, shrinking testicles, hair loss, development of breasts, and osteoporosis. Labs tests will often pick up anemia and borderline diabetes, but these are non-specific and are associated with a lot of other disorders. Often there are other associated endocrinologic disorders as low T may be a problem with the part of the brain that makes a lot of other hormones as well.

A total testosterone >350 essentially rules out hypogonadism. For borderline values, it is recommended to measure a free testosterone level (total T measures the useable and unuseable testosterone, whilst the free measures the useable testosterone).

Its probably reasonable to talk to your doctor about checking a free testosterone. I'd also probably ask him to check a prolactin level (it goes back to the what I said about low T being a problem with the part of your brain that makes a lot of other hormones. If that part of the brain makes too much of a hormone called prolactin, it can cause low libido, erectile dysfunction, and etc). If those tests come back normal, you should probably look elsewhere for the cause of your fatigue. Complications of thalassemia would be a good place to start. And I hope you're not holding out good medical history on us like a prior history of chest radiation or that you're taking a ton of beta blockers or something.
Last edited by Sunburn74 on Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:37 am

Gandolf wrote:
I know this is a tech site, but I was hoping some people here may have some knowledge on this subject.
Ok so here is the deal, for the past 3 years I have pretty much become nothing. I lost my drive to do anything, sex, working out, going out. And it isn't lazyness, as it is literally 0 energy. I still play basketball or racquetball once or twice a week, but even doing that my energy level is barely there anymore. I am not a fat slob or anything and it isn't my cholesterol lvls. I am only 30 years old and my testerone level was 350. Now from what I have read this falls in the "acceptable" range, and my doctor told me it was ok to be that. But just ok when it comes to my quality of life seems dissapointing to say the least. I have tried other ways to up my energy, eating healthier and trying to work out but nothing works, and my lack of sex drive makes my girlfriend none to pleased. Apparently the 350 is the average Test level of a 75 year old man. The average for my age is 669.

Does anyone know if I actually goto a endocrinologist if they would do anything to help, or am I going to be stuck suffering because I am in what they may consider an acceptable range?


This may be your lucky day friend, first and foremost make sure you have had all your blood work and whatnot done first, to rule out anything more serious, perhaps something could be wrong with your kidneys, many kidney issues also lead to variations of Anemia, perhaps its even Anemia by itself.

How is your urine, is bubbly or foamy after you go to the washroom, that is just 2 signs to look for.

Why I said it could be your lucky day is because of these, I know 6 people taking them that swear by them, they have reduced stress they fell, along with boosting up their overall morale, for lack of a better explanation.

Do some goggling for yourself as well, they are also quite inexpensive.


http://www.walmart.com/ip/Stress-Tabs-Energy/10324884#Product+Reviews
 
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:38 am

Another thing to investigate as well;l would be your Thyroid glands, very similar symptoms as well.
 
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:49 am

Well I am going back to my primary care doctor on Wednesday. They are going to run some more test and see if they can figure anything out.
 
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:51 am

Gandolf wrote:
Duct Tape Dude wrote:
I'm no doctor, but I have a good friend who is in her third year studying to be one. She says:
Could be anything - hypothyroid, anemia (he already has thalassemia), maybe he doesn't have enough cholesterol to make testosterone. Who knows? Smoking?

Yes I do have anemia. Sad. But like I said this has gotten considerably worse during the last few years.
I don't smoke, and I had my cholesterol and thyroid checked last time I went to get my testosterone test..

As far as sleep per night it varys but normally around 7-8. I will say I do not sleep solid through the night, I do turn back and forth a lot.



This was me, turned out I had restless leg syndrome, I then found out from my mother, who I don't see or talk to often had it as well.

I never had it when I was younger, or noticed it lets say, wifey confirmed how I was driving her nuts,lol.

Long story short, I remembered for the longest time in my life I had a joint an hour or two before bed, we had stopped after purchasing our home, that was about 8 years ago, works like a charm, the joint that is,lol.
 
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:18 pm

Also, I'd recommend getting your thyroid checked.

But yes, great base to work from for sleep: 7+ hours per night, and get to bed by 10pm at the latest, so you get at least 2 hours of sleep before midnight. This allows you to get sleep during the patterns when the rest of the world (light, sound, nature, etc.) are in the right cycle.
 
paulWTAMU
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:29 pm

Further, it's rather common now to see commercials for "Low-T" in order to push a pharacuetical agenda, but I digress.


and to market to people like me that ar emad that our recovery capacity isn't what it was a decade ago.
I miss being able to squat heavy 3-4x/week :X but I just can't anymore. Gimmie d-bol plz?
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:04 pm

paulWTAMU wrote:
Further, it's rather common now to see commercials for "Low-T" in order to push a pharacuetical agenda, but I digress.


and to market to people like me that ar emad that our recovery capacity isn't what it was a decade ago.
I miss being able to squat heavy 3-4x/week :X but I just can't anymore. Gimmie d-bol plz?

OK but you're going to get man-boobs along with it.
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steelcity_ballin
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Re: Low testosterone?

Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:05 pm

Honestly when I'm around 45+ I'm hoping there are even better, legal steroids. If not, D-bol for me. You know what they say, "Tren hard, eat Clen".
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paulWTAMU
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Re: Low testosterone?

Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:29 am

:lol:
That or HGH. Honestly that's been a real adjustment for me--getting used to diminished recovery capacity took some doing. :? I know it's normal but damnit i do not like
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Re: Low testosterone?

Fri May 26, 2017 4:55 am

Maybe you're just longing for love. Try to live a more active life and go out more often. Here's a list of to dos:

1. Wake up early to exercise. This will make you feel great.
2. Eat healthy food. Stay away from those containing MSGs and anything diet as those are artificial sugar.
3. Keep yourself clean and well groomed. This will help you a lot in meeting new people.

Hope this helps.
 
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Re: Low testosterone?

Fri May 26, 2017 5:05 am

Gandolf wrote:
Duct Tape Dude wrote:
As far as sleep per night it varys but normally around 7-8. I will say I do not sleep solid through the night, I do turn back and forth a lot.


How old is your mattress? If you're feeling tired and not sleeping well then it may be worn out and need replacing.
 
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Re: Low testosterone?

Fri May 26, 2017 5:56 am

A good endocrinologist will do all the blood work needed and then make suggestions. Finding one is your first step. I had the same symptoms as you and it turned out to be my thyroid and PVCs (Preventricular contractions of my heart). Get a second opinion if you aren't satisfied. I didn't do this and it cost me 6 years of feeling like crap.
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Re: Low testosterone?

Fri May 26, 2017 6:42 am

I had/have low T also, but I'm 53. My level was below 300 so my Urologist prescribed injections of Testosterone CYP 2,000 mg every 30 days. I've been on it for about 5 months and there's a significant difference in the way I feel and my energy level. My wife and I typically have sex 3 times a week, sometimes more - sometimes less, but on average 3 per week. (and it's fantastic) :)

Doc told me about several options of creams to rub on you body that absorb the T through your skin, but they are kinda messy and really expensive. He said the things you hear on the radio like Andro 400 and the stuff from GNC is all junk. Don't waste your time or money.

You should try lifting weights a few times a week. Not body building, but some good upper body strength building will do wonders for your T levels as well as make you feel better about yourself overall. Works for me.

Best of luck.
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Re: Low testosterone?

Fri May 26, 2017 7:19 am

Gandolf wrote:
Ok so here is the deal, for the past 3 years I have pretty much become nothing. I lost my drive to do anything, sex, working out, going out. And it isn't lazyness, as it is literally 0 energy. I still play basketball or racquetball once or twice a week, but even doing that my energy level is barely there anymore. I am not a fat slob or anything and it isn't my cholesterol lvls. I am only 30 years old and my testerone level was 350.


You're describing me six months ago. 31-years old. Tested my levels twice in the same month: 214-ng/dl on the first, and 340-ng/dl on the second test. Zero sex drive, difficulty physically "getting it up" during sex, lost an interest in weight training, and seemed to be adding body fat despite keeping calories in check.

My GP was a **** asshat who told me the 340-ng/dl was "completely acceptable" and that all of my other symptoms should be treated separately. Basically, he wanted to put me on Viagra for the sex, Zoloft or some such **** for the "depression" and Adderall or Ritalin for the energy. I was appalled. He also drew about five vials of my blood and put me through a battery of clinical tests to try and find another cause for my symptoms.

I ended up having to go to a private, men's clinic. Unfortunately, insurance doesn't cover treatments like this as its considered "fertility" or "anti-aging" treatments and thus non-essential. As such, it's not cheap. But the difference is I walked in, and the doc instantly knew what I was describing. The first thing he did was put me on clomiphene citrate. Clomid is typically used to increase sex drive in women, but it has an off-label use in men as a trigger to cue your testicles to "wake up." After 50-mg a day for six weeks, my T-levels had gone from 340-ng/dl to 1236-ng/dl.

Now, in my case, the clomid did wonders for my T and I felt the results elsewhere (lost body fat, increased muscle mass, better weight training sessions). However, the sex drive/hardness issues are only about 60% better, so I'm probably going to come off the clomid, let my levels come down a bit, and start a low-dose of testosterone cypionate.

Sorry, I know that's a lot, but here are my takeaways:

1- Find a doc who specializes in this ****. Most docs are terrified of test, ignorant of it (my GP tried to tell me my symptoms were not the result of low-T despite being TEXTBOOK), and don't want to touch the issue. Find a doc who actually gets it, that you can talk to, and that's responsive.

2- No, it's not normal to have no sex drive as a man. It's not normal to wake up and want to stay in bed because you just don't see the point. Don't let anyone tell you it is, and know you're not the only one.

3- Don't waste your money on anything other than Rx test. All of the other "boosters" are ****.

4- Eat more saturated fat, cholesterol. Whole milk, eggs, bacon.

5- Lift heavy ****.

Not sure where you are geographically, but PM me and I can send you the name of my doc.
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Re: Low testosterone?

Fri May 26, 2017 7:27 am

Gotta love a 3+ year necro due to bots.

Any doctor (PCP) can order a blood panel for checking your Test levels among other indicators, but in my experience only specialists can interpret the results correctly. The T range can vary wildly from person to person, and you can still have a 'normal' reading at the low end of the range that is many times lower than the peak of another person with similar factors.

Before you buy into the 'Low T' commercials that are actively marketing on behalf of the pharmacology industry to get you to ask about these things, I would investigate your Diet, sleep habits/patterns, and stress levels. I'm 33 and generally have a lot of work stress (programmer) on my mind. I also tend to sleep under 6 hours a night which is far from ideal. My diet is trash at times too. In the last month I recognized these things and especially my lack of working out (lifting) I took action. I went to bed earlier, cooked more meals, and was back in the gym. The male T range does dip as life goes on, but we're talking mostly after 30, and even then it doesn't just drop off suddenly or disappear.

I would look into lifestyle changes first, primarily food and sleep. When you've eaten well and slept ~ 8 a night for a week, see how that goes.
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Re: Low testosterone?

Fri May 26, 2017 7:33 am

steelcity_ballin wrote:
Gotta love a 3+ year necro due to bots.


Crap!! Totally missed the bot. Grrrrr
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Re: Low testosterone?

Fri May 26, 2017 7:34 am

RickyTick wrote:
Crap!! Totally missed the bot. Grrrrr

Bot has met the HoB and is gone now.
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