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Glorious
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Re: MCU

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:43 pm

superjawes wrote:
Again, it's dumb. I think we agree it's dumb. Move on.


funny, I encouraged people to stop talking about this nonsense before we even had this debate.

Glorious wrote:
If we really want to talk about the "review bombing" there's always R & P, right?


But, no, you guys couldn't let go.

You just don't want to hear anyone that challenges your inaccurate depictions and baseless opinions. So long as you are all back-slapping yourselves, no problem, right?

superjawes wrote:
You've spent more brainpower responding to me than I ever gave to this nonsense.


Please.

superjawes wrote:
Wonder Woman was "spared" because part of the bombing is to prove a "Pro-Disney Conspiracy" (check audience/critic divides on BvS and Justice League). Dragging the scores of a DC film with solid critic scores doesn't fit the goal.


I actually don't even have enough brainpower to figure out WHAT THE HECK THAT IS.

You have an *extraordinarily* elaborate conception of "this" that I only dimly understand, but it seems to involve literal epi-conspiracies.
 
Glorious
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Re: MCU

Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:14 pm

I mean, leaving aside everything else, do you see what is happening here?

You can't just discuss a movie now, no, that now implicitly involve the concept not only of its fandom, but of it "anti-fandom" (!!!)

Like WHOA META: It's not just whether or not *YOU* liked the movie, but we're suddenly talking about whether or not everyone else likes the movie.

And not just that, but that there are people who seek to -destroy- that movie.

----

You are literally arguing with me with the premise that I must accept the existence of these secret destroyers, that everyone who reads about "this sort of news" just knows they exist. :o

Sorry that I have the audacity to any way question that, or draw attention to "WHAT THE HECK JUST HAPPENED HERE?!?!".

I mean, what do I know? I cited Rotten Tomatoes saying it was an "uptick" in "borderline trolling", not to mention the clear existence of serious (and fundamentally important---fake bad reviews are fraud, polls of "would you see it" are impotent and meaningless---yet they are being directly conflated :roll: ) confusion and misrepresentation.

---

So, you know what, I'm sorry if I don't like your narrative about another narrative that's ultimately, kindof/sortof about a -THIRD- narrative (you know, the actual movie itself!).

You're right. I gave it that meta-meta-narrative a bad "review"---and that's SERIOUS business!

(or maybe I'm just another person conspiring against the [non-existent? I'm not even sure from your statement!] "pro-disney Conspiracy" :P )
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: MCU

Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:21 pm

TurtlePerson2 wrote:
The early 2000s Hulk was pretty bad, but I remember the late 2000s Hulk with Edward Norton being pretty good. It has a very different feel than what has come to be an "MCU" film.


late 2000s Hulk is the same as MCU Hulk, but they re-cast with Bark Ruffalo (great dog's name, btw) because Ed Norton was supposedly difficult to work with. They wanted someoen who would go along with the story as-written, I guess. https://www.cbr.com/edward-norton-marve ... k-history/
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Redocbew
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Re: MCU

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:05 pm

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Captain Marvel, yay or nay? Me says kinda yay.


I'm saying yay. Now the Internet can spend the next six weeks or so crafting theories on the pivotal role Goose will play in saving the MCU.
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Redocbew
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Re: MCU

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:30 pm

New Endgame trailer has been posted. It went up 6 hours ago and has 10 million views. :o
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Usacomp2k3
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Re: MCU

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:45 pm

Redocbew wrote:
New Endgame trailer has been posted. It went up 6 hours ago and has 10 million views. :o

Up to 54 M now

https://youtu.be/TcMBFSGVi1c
 
G8torbyte
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Re: MCU

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:07 pm

Redocbew wrote:
Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Captain Marvel, yay or nay? Me says kinda yay.


I'm saying yay. Now the Internet can spend the next six weeks or so crafting theories on the pivotal role Goose will play in saving the MCU.


"Mutha-flerken" yay as Fury would say...anyway, just got back from seeing it with my daughters at a military base theater. I enjoyed it and it is fun following the MCU stories with my kids. Everyone clapped at the opening homage to Stan Lee. Brie Larson also did a quick introductory video thanking service members and for assisting her in the role of an Air Force pilot.
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kvndoom
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Re: MCU

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:41 am

superjawes wrote:
::deep, deep sigh::

Look. I'm not going to waste my day arguing with you, Glorious. There's a (vocal) minority of people who want to see the film fail, and they've used tools on sites like Rotten Tomatoes as part of their campaign. It doesn't matter if "want to see" isn't the technical, literal, dictionary definition of "review". This is a thing that's happening, it's not just on RT, and it's really dumb. You've spent more brainpower responding to me than I ever gave to this nonsense.

Again, it's dumb. I think we agree it's dumb. Move on.

Glorious is right. Even when he's not, he is right. Seldom is it worth replying, which is why I didn't bother. It wasn't just the thumbs up/thumbs down, it was the comments being left by people who hadn't even seen the film yet. A combination of many things. But whatever... Glorious is right. Half page dissertation by Glorious to explain why he's right I'm wrong incoming in 3... 2... 1... :roll:
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kvndoom
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Re: MCU

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:44 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Redocbew wrote:
New Endgame trailer has been posted. It went up 6 hours ago and has 10 million views. :o

Up to 54 M now

https://youtu.be/TcMBFSGVi1c

Can't wait for this movie! I haven't been so anxious to go see a film since Star Wars 7.
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Igor_Kavinski
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Re: MCU

Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:46 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Redocbew wrote:
New Endgame trailer has been posted. It went up 6 hours ago and has 10 million views. :o

Up to 54 M now

https://youtu.be/TcMBFSGVi1c


Based solely on CapMarv's slight smile at Thor in that trailer, does this mean these two are gonna be a "thing"? If so, I want them to have kids. Lots of 'em!
 
Glorious
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Re: MCU

Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:49 am

kvndoom wrote:
Glorious is right. Even when he's not, he is right. Seldom is it worth replying, which is why I didn't bother. It wasn't just the thumbs up/thumbs down, it was the comments being left by people who hadn't even seen the film yet. A combination of many things. But whatever... Glorious is right. Half page dissertation by Glorious to explain why he's right I'm wrong incoming in 3... 2... 1...


Comments left by people who hadn't seen the film, because it wasn't released yet. :roll:

Those, once again, are not "reviews".

This "thing", this "campaign" that is "happening" is apparently an article of faith with you two, and not only does it have nothing to with the actual movie itself as a movie, it also has very little to do with the FACTS.

There was self-admitted error by Rotten Tomatoes that lead to erroneous reporting that upon Captain Marvel's actual release an army of trolls bombed the audience reviews.

I proved this by Rotten Tomatoe's own words.

I also cited their words to show that you were falling for a false conflation, and it was *that* false conflation that led them to remove "want to see" etc...

Additionally, their own words once again simply say that there was an "uptick" of "borderline trolling", but yet *I* am being castigated for doubting, in any capacity, that there is some sort of meta-narrative about involving dueling worldviews, once is some sort of DCU-positive "pro-disney conspiracy" and another is .. I don't know. I guess they don't like Captain Marvel because she's a female MCU character?

---

Pro-tip: I have a deeply-seated personal antipathy for those "things" that "everyone knows" but literally no one can even remotely demonstrate let alone argue. Double-points when my interlocutors get mad because "Ok well you're right in regards to the facts but since you just *have* to be right you are therefore just wrong". :roll:

----

I thought this was about superhero chick and some dude and a cat?

What on earth are you two talking about?
 
TheRazorsEdge
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Re: MCU

Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:31 am

the wrote:
No Doubt's "About a girl" makes sense for the film but misplaced inside of it.


I agree with pretty much everything except this.

They queued it when she got boosted. The song is a counterpoint to the events on screen. It was timed so the line "I'm just a girl, little ol' me" is playing right when she starts kicking major ass. Exquisite timing, A+++, I had to swallow a laugh.

Nirvana's song, in contrast, was completely pointless. I remember hearing it but can't pair it with a scene---which means it didn't work with the scene at all. For me, anyway.
 
MileageMayVary
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Re: MCU

Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:41 pm

TheRazorsEdge wrote:
the wrote:
No Doubt's "About a girl" makes sense for the film but misplaced inside of it.


I agree with pretty much everything except this.

They queued it when she got boosted. The song is a counterpoint to the events on screen. It was timed so the line "I'm just a girl, little ol' me" is playing right when she starts kicking major ass. Exquisite timing, A+++, I had to swallow a laugh.

Nirvana's song, in contrast, was completely pointless. I remember hearing it but can't pair it with a scene---which means it didn't work with the scene at all. For me, anyway.


Come As You Are was playing on a record player in her head when she fights with the Supreme Intelligence in the scene just before I'm Just a Girl.
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TheRazorsEdge
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Re: MCU

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:17 pm

MileageMayVary wrote:
Come As You Are was playing on a record player in her head when she fights with the Supreme Intelligence in the scene just before I'm Just a Girl.


That's why it didn't work for me. "Come As You Are" doesn't really fit into a bizarre VR landscape. An outstanding soundtrack needs to mesh with both the visuals and the emotional tone.

Keeping it 90s-themed, I would have went with Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, or Crystal Method. Or maybe Daft Punk.
 
TheRazorsEdge
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Re: MCU

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:26 pm

Glorious wrote:
You are literally arguing with me with the premise that I must accept the existence of these secret destroyers, that everyone who reads about "this sort of news" just knows they exist. :o


This is why I pay more attention to people I know than reviews and aggregators. People try to game the sites (both haters and shills), and reviewers have biases just like everybody else.

Dumb asses will hype things they haven't even seen yet, and dumb asses will **** on things they haven't seen either. Forget that noise.

You know who usually has the most similar biases... which is actually helpful when choosing entertainment? Your friends most often, and sometimes your family.
 
superjawes
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Re: MCU

Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:52 pm

Well Endgame has already made more than a $billion in less than a week, so it's safe to assume that several of you saw it, and if you didn't, you probably will. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

Spoiler tag time? I think Marvel just set themselves up to do whatever they want in future films, crossovers, reboots, and TV/Streaming spin-offs. The obvious aspects are related to the time-travel related shennanigans that moved around a lot of things in the continuity. (Or alternate continuities?) Then Steve Rodgers decided to retire when putting Infinity Stones back, which opens a possibility for a timeline where he continues his work solo in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

However, I think the biggest thing to happen was the destruction of the Infinity Stones. When Banner acquires the Time Stone in 2012, the Ancient One tells him that removing just one of the stones would be bad for reality. Well...what happens when all six go away? This, I think, is going to be the thread for the next Avengers-level crossover, and it's going to spawn a Marvel Cinematic Multiverse. Maybe it will spell the end of the original MCU as we know/knew it, but I think it serve as the "blank check" to carry on whatever they want in parallel. If/when the Fantastic 4 and X-Men get rolled into the rotation, this will be their license.

Also:
superjawes wrote:
Anyone up for some crazier, just-for-fun predictions?

1. Doctor Strange didn't get wiped out. He simply made it look that way so he can take part in the next fight.
2. Clark Gregg shows up. Don't know how, don't know when, but he gets to wink at his Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. audience.
3. Playing off the "should he be worthy" angle from Mjolnir, someone who isn't Thor (probably Steve) picks up the Stormbreaker to smack down Thanos.
4. Whatever the heroes do to restore half the universe brings back more than just the good guys. Sure, we might see Quicksilver again, but bringing back some of the better villains could be a great setup for future Avengers films.

Two out of four ain't bad.
On second thought, let's not go to TechReport. Tis a silly place.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: MCU

Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:20 pm

That was freakin awesome. I have seen it twice now. My only regret is that I'm not on vacation all week long so that I can keep seeing it each day until I'm tired of it.

BTW, spent the weekend in St. Louis. Seeing a big movie is incredibly inconvenient there. Every theater within 10 miles of my hotel was sold out basically all weekend long. Meanwhile I'd check for tickets in Pekin/Peoria and every theater had some available. We made the most of it...finally saw Captain Marvel, and did a bunch of non-movie stuff all weekend, but my wife and I were both quite disappointed. So it's the first thing we did when we got home yesterday. :lol:
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:25 am

superjawes wrote:
Steve Rodgers decided to retire when putting Infinity Stones back, which opens a possibility for a timeline where he continues his work solo in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

Absolutely; Captain America + Agent Carter

superjawes wrote:
If/when the Fantastic 4 and X-Men get rolled into the rotation, this will be their license.

Well, if Deadpool was anything to go by, that's already happened. At the end of Deadpool 1 you have have one of S.H.I.E.L.D's scrapped heli-carriers from the MCU as the stage for the final conflict of the movie which is firmly in the X-Men universe ;)

I know Deadpool movies are designed to screw convention but that crossover has to be more than just Tim Miller messing with the audience.
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Usacomp2k3
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:22 am

Going to see it Thursday. Thank you for using the Spoiler tags. I'm going to stay out of there just in case.
 
Igor_Kavinski
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:24 am

The saddest thing,apart from the demise of Iron Man, has to be poor Star Lord having to win Gamora's heart all over again in GotG3. BUMMER! Though, that should guarantee plenty of laughs.
 
superjawes
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:06 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
Well, if Deadpool was anything to go by, that's already happened. At the end of Deadpool 1 you have have one of S.H.I.E.L.D's scrapped heli-carriers from the MCU as the stage for the final conflict of the movie which is firmly in the X-Men universe ;)

I know Deadpool movies are designed to screw convention but that crossover has to be more than just Tim Miller messing with the audience.
That's just Deadpool & co. being Deadpool & co. I think I said before that he will always be the exception, and as long as Reynolds is able, he'll be around as DP, probably taking place of one or more Stan Lee cameos.

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
The saddest thing,apart from the demise of Iron Man, has to be poor Star Lord having to win Gamora's heart all over again in GotG3. BUMMER! Though, that should guarantee plenty of laughs.
I'm actually fairly happy with that because it allows the weight of what happened in Infinity War to linger, much like Thor explicitly losing Loki and Heimdall (and his mother again). You keep the rules of the Soul Stone, but you also keep the entire Guardians team around (at least for now). As a bonus, Nebula has grown quite a bit, putting her in better position to contribute like TL1 Gamora did (and Karen Gillan is killing it these days).
On second thought, let's not go to TechReport. Tis a silly place.
 
TurtlePerson2
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:14 am

They did a great job of wrapping everything up and at the same time setting up for whatever they want to do next. By doing the alternate timeline thing, they've now set themselves up to bring back characters at whatever times they wish and have it still fit into the story. More importantly, by defining the rules of their time travel such that going "back in time" can only affect the future by bringing something with you, they've avoided the trap that to solve every big problem in the future they will go back in time.

It was a great ending for Infinity War, though I think it was probably one of the least accessible big budget blockbusters to every be released. Imagine watching that movie without seeing any other MCU film. You would be totally lost. I think that while there was a big rush opening weekend, I'll be surprised if it makes much more than its predecessor's $2B. It's hard to imagine people who didn't go see IW going to see EG.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:44 pm

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
The saddest thing,apart from the demise of Iron Man, has to be poor Star Lord having to win Gamora's heart all over again in GotG3. BUMMER! Though, that should guarantee plenty of laughs.

She did not appear to be on the ship when the Asgardians of the Galaxy took off, soooooo...?

BTW, Thor + GotG was my favorite part of Infinity War, so I'm happy that there's a chance he'll be with them in part 3.

@TurtlePerson2, I don't understand why that's a big deal. If someone hasn't invested at least SOME number of hours in the MCU, why would they go see the longest installment to date? There was a post on Deadspin that used more words to say what you did (which I won't link because it's full of spoilers). I have to admit that take has me scratching my head. Like, who cares about those people? They're not the target demographic. I go back to Frank Cifaldi's GDC presentation from March. Target the hardcore and you'll build an audience.
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TurtlePerson2
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:35 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
@TurtlePerson2, I don't understand why that's a big deal. If someone hasn't invested at least SOME number of hours in the MCU, why would they go see the longest installment to date? There was a post on Deadspin that used more words to say what you did (which I won't link because it's full of spoilers). I have to admit that take has me scratching my head. Like, who cares about those people? They're not the target demographic. I go back to Frank Cifaldi's GDC presentation from March. Target the hardcore and you'll build an audience.


There's nothing morally or ethically wrong with the decision, but it's an interesting one given the budget that went into this one. I don't think that there's a dichotomy of people who see every Marvel movie and people who see no Marvel movies. There's plenty of people who have seen a lot of Marvel movies, but not every one, or even a few of the Marvel movies, but not every one. Most of the Marvel movies are pretty accessible even if you've never read the comics or seen any of the other entries in the series because they want people to board the MCU bandwagon every time it makes a stop at the movie theater.

With Endgame, I would argue that they have, more than any other entry in the series, and maybe more than any other major blockbuster, chosen to not have it be accessible. I think I enjoyed the movie more because of decisions related to this, but it's a bold move for a movie that is probably trying to set all-time ticket sales records.
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dragontamer5788
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:06 pm

I've seen a lot of movies with the "Endgame mechanic"... here's what I have to say on the issue.

As far as time travel mechanics go, I'd rate this one rather low. First off, the McGuffins (aka: infinity stones) exist at the beginning of the movie. Its unnecessary to make this a time-travel movie, by the simple nature... Thanos didn't destroy the stones until maybe 10 to 15 minutes into the movie. So introducing a time-travel mechanic that is wrapped up in a single movie seems... a bit lazy to me. Other time-travel series have fun with loop logic (Bill and Ted's Adventure, Back to the Future, even Lego Movie 2). While others try to keep things consistent (Ex: Primer). As an excuse to visit earlier movies and recap on the last 10 years, I guess time-travel is always fun for that. But it would have been better if it were connected to the first movie better. Dr. Strange already setup a good "jumping point" for why the 14-million potential outcomes rested in this particular team... and making it more obvious how and why it was such a rare event would have been better.

With that being said, it was a fun movie. But in the great scheme of time-travel stories and creativity here... it was... dare I say it... bland and uncreative. Bill and Ted did Time Travel better. Red vs Blue did Time Travel better. Stein's Gate did Time Travel better. I can't think of a single time-travel movie which had a worse mechanic / plot than the Endgame time travel mechanic... aside from Primer (but Primer gets a pass for being super consistent. Its just a bad movie).

Fortunately, the Time-Travel mechanic isn't the end-all be-all of the movie. The overall fan-service moments of Capt. America vs Capt. America... rewatching Loki from Avengers 1... seeing Thor get a beer belly... etc. etc. The movie was awesome for its call-backs and leveraging the shared universe that has been created over the past 11 years (!!) by the studio. But as a plot device?

This is probably one of the worst time-travel plotlines I've ever seen. Time-travel to grab the McGuffin. Seriously bland, and very uncreative. I really wish they were more brave to make something bigger than that.

There are also some continuity errors potentially at play here.


The following contains Ant Man and Wasp + Captain Marvel + Endgame spoilers.

Capt. Marvel's powers originate from the Tesseract (blue infinity stone), according to her movie. Why does she still have super-powers after Thanos destroys the infinity stones? If Thanos (2014) went to the future, how does the first Infinity Wars movie work at all? Thanos isn't in the past anymore. If Ant-man's time is slowed while in the Quantum realm, why did Janet (Hank Pym's wife) age so much in Ant-Man and Wasp? 5-minutes == 5 years for Ant Man, but apparently 30+ years == 30+ years for Janet, who was also trapped in the quantum realm for an extended period of time.

Internal to the movie itself: the Sorcerer Supreme claims that removal of the infinity stones from any timeline will have grave consequences. But Thanos has destroyed all of the infinity stones in the main timeline, so... should we be worried about that? They can patch this one up with a future movie though, so maybe its not that big of a deal.


All in all, continuity errors have become more and more common as this 11-year extended movie universe continued to grow (and be written by different script writers and directors). I understand and recognize that. Still... its... annoying? I guess. Still a good movie, but I sorta wish the continuity errors were kept more minimal.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:34 pm

TurtlePerson2 wrote:
With Endgame, I would argue that they have, more than any other entry in the series, and maybe more than any other major blockbuster, chosen to not have it be accessible. I think I enjoyed the movie more because of decisions related to this, but it's a bold move for a movie that is probably trying to set all-time ticket sales records.

I agree with you that I enjoyed it more because of all of the inside references and callbacks. Continuity was so important.

The crazy thing is they did that and still set record after record. We've basically known they were going to do both of those things for a year or more. Disney had been been blaring it since Infinity War that Avengers 4 would bring this phase of the MCU to a close. The fact that all of the last 2-3 years of movies (except Captain Marvel) have been available to stream on Netflix probably helped people get caught up.

It's like, if I've never seen a Star Wars movie, I'd never want to start with Return of the Jedi. There's like 5 hours of stuff that happened and I know I have no desire to get into it. With the MCU there's around 10x that. Fifty hours of movies to watch. No way am I going to that movie, and that makes the directors' jobs easier. Make a movie for people who have been following along.

On the other hand, there are concluding movies that are meant to draw people in to get started. Serenity had no choice, for example. Fox had screwed Firefly up so badly that it didn't even get a full season run, so to see the movie you have to assume nobody's seen the show.

Regarding continuity issues (dragontamer's post) the only one they didn't effectively deal with is was Clint really paying for his wife's cell phone for five years after she got dusted? He had no hope of bringing everyone back, so why would you keep spending that money?

They were very clear that you can't change the past. The past for that instance of those characters was the past. You could only create alternative realities and timelines, and that could all be undone if they put the stones back at the right time - which Captain America did, and that means 2014 Thanos stayed in 2014.
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dragontamer5788
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:53 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
They were very clear that you can't change the past. The past for that instance of those characters was the past. You could only create alternative realities and timelines, and that could all be undone if they put the stones back at the right time - which Captain America did, and that means 2014 Thanos stayed in 2014.


The continuity problems don't necessarily have to do with that much. I understand that the movie sets its own rules for how things work... that's perfectly fine and acceptable.

Then again, the point of time travel in this movie wasn't to just lazily solve the plot problems for the main characters... but also to revisit the last 11 years of cinema history. And the film was extremely successful from that front. The movie really did feel like a great conclusion to this entire arc, and this huge chapter in my entertainment life. It was a fun movie for that and that alone. But the time travel plot itself? Kinda mediocre. Pretty much every movie they listed in the "time travel doesn't work like that" line was a better movie from a time-travel coolness perspective.

All in all, think of it this way:

Now that time-travel has been established as a consequence-free tactic in Avengers: Endgame, will future movies simply solve issues by time-traveling to grab the infinity stones, and snapping things back into place? I mean, all they have to do is put the stones back into place whenever they're done with them. Seems... pretty inconsequential to me.

What made other time travel movies good, is that the villains are able to fully manipulate time to the same degree as the main characters. The fight was "fair". Like "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure 2", where the villain can also arbitrarily set things up due to future-shenanigans with time machines. Its almost an ass-pull that (2019) Nebula loses her consciousness after War Machine teleports forward in time... when (2014) Nebula almost instantly goes paralyzed from the "grid system" or whatever was going on. If it weren't for that pretty arbitrary Deus-ex machina, 2014 Thanos wouldn't have even been able to travel back to the future for a 2nd fight.

I mean, the entire 2014 section was just Deus Ex Machina lazy writing. Kinda like "bombs" stopping on 0:01 or whatever, they wanted certain things to happen so... they happened without much explanation. Hawkeye having a strong-enough love for Black Widow was also kinda questionable (Thanos / Gamora had a father/daughter relationship... albeit foster relationship but a strong well developed relationship nonetheless. Hawkeye / Black Widow's relationship is far weaker in comparison, so it doesn't seem as impactful of a trade that Thanos made in the last movie for the soul stone). I dunno, Hulk / Black Widow had more chemistry and Hulk is also single (maybe getting shipped with Valkyrie right now though??). I mean, Hawkeye is a married man for goodness sake, and a mourning widower.

Ehhh, if I were to redo the 2014 section, I'd:

1. Have Thanos explicitly "time" the attack on Nebula, so that when Nebula short-circuits when War-machine time travels in the future, it is CLEAR that Thanos did that on purpose. This gives Thanos the ability to move the plot, and strengthens his role as a villain.

1.5: Make Warmachine not an idiot about it. First thing War Machine should do as he gets to the future should be "Nebula, I saw you kneeling over when we timewarped. Are you okay??". Give (2014) evil-Nebula a bit of villainy as she tricks the group into thinking she's 2019 Nebula.

2. Hulk / Black Widow come across the Soul Stone. And I mean HULK / Black Widow, not Bruce Banner. Remember that Black Widow knows the song that calms Hulk's anger, and that she's one of the few characters that angry-Hulk actually trusts. The Hawkeye chemistry for the soul stone straight up didn't work for me, because Hawkeye is a married man and already is mourning the loss of his wife and kids. His story is just too busy to be wrapped up in this Soul Stone business. Bonus badass points: have both Hulk and Black-Widow fall from the height, but have Hulk survive... because you know... he's the Hulk.

3. Have Hawkeye fight the Sorcerer Supreme in 2011 instead of Hulk to make room for this revamped 2014 scene.

All in all, it was a fine movie for pandering to the last 11 years of my nostalgia and cinema. But... it doesn't hold a candle to other time-travel plotlines I've seen or read. Its not just the time travel bits that felt like lazy writing to me, but also major plot points.


One more major problem.

The "woman" scene, where all the females line up in the final fight. I mean, I recognize that some "girl power" is necessary for representation. But could it be... I dunno... less cheesy? I'm no feminist, so my eyes were rolling at the scene. But I can't imagine any feminist actually liking that scene either. Actually, it was so obviously a pandered scene that I definitely "lost focus" and got pulled out of the final fight because of it. It was unnecessarily distracting and just poorly done.

Capt. Marvel is already blowing up ships and making an impact. Valkyrie is already on her Pegasus killing dudes. If they wanted to show women working together... there had to have been a way to do it better? I mean, I'm no writer, so I don't want to hate on it too much, but that scene really pulled me out of the movie and distracted me.
 
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:25 pm

dragontamer5788 wrote:
One more major problem.

The "woman" scene, where all the females line up in the final fight. I mean, I recognize that some "girl power" is necessary for representation. But could it be... I dunno... less cheesy? I'm no feminist, so my eyes were rolling at the scene. But I can't imagine any feminist actually liking that scene either. Actually, it was so obviously a pandered scene that I definitely "lost focus" and got pulled out of the final fight because of it. It was unnecessarily distracting and just poorly done.

Capt. Marvel is already blowing up ships and making an impact. Valkyrie is already on her Pegasus killing dudes. If they wanted to show women working together... there had to have been a way to do it better? I mean, I'm no writer, so I don't want to hate on it too much, but that scene really pulled me out of the movie and distracted me.

While I concede it was somewhat cheesy, the "girl power" scene didn't bother me nearly as much as old Steve handing off his shield - and, ostensibly, the Captain America mantle - to Sam/Falcon. That's nothing at all against Sam - he's a likable character - but unless he got his hands on some of Erskine's formula, he can't be Captain America. He doesn't have anywhere near Steve's strength, speed, or superior ability to recover from wounds/injuries. Bucky, on the other hand, does have those traits.

I can guess why they did it, but the whole suspension of disbelief thing felt like a big fat fail, and seemed more egregious to me than the girl power scene.

Maybe they're going to find a way to deal with that oversight? And work it so that Steve somehow knew that Sam would be acquiring much greater physical abilities? Seems like a pretty big stretch.
 
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Re: MCU

Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:10 pm

Lucky Jack Aubrey wrote:
While I concede it was somewhat cheesy, the "girl power" scene didn't bother me nearly as much as old Steve handing off his shield - and, ostensibly, the Captain America mantle - to Sam/Falcon. That's nothing at all against Sam - he's a likable character - but unless he got his hands on some of Erskine's formula, he can't be Captain America. He doesn't have anywhere near Steve's strength, speed, or superior ability to recover from wounds/injuries. Bucky, on the other hand, does have those traits.


As far as I'm concerned, this is just the movies following the comics.

Current Capt. America IS Sam / Falcon in the comics.

EDIT: Holy crap, spoiler tags don't work for urls or images. Sorry to anybody who saw the spoiler unnecessarily. I thought spoiler tags would hide something like that... anyway, links removed / images removed.

I can guess why they did it, but the whole suspension of disbelief thing felt like a big fat fail, and seemed more egregious to me than the girl power scene.

Maybe they're going to find a way to deal with that oversight? And work it so that Steve somehow knew that Sam would be acquiring much greater physical abilities? Seems like a pretty big stretch.


In the comics, there's a learning period. No one can properly replace Capt. America. Its a passing of the mantle and responsibilities, and its a growth arc for Sam / Falcon to grow into his new role. If it makes you feel any better, Falcon is not a "powerhouse" hero in the comics, even as Capt. America. Its more about Sam Wilson being the only character who can properly take on Capt. America's responsibilities.

True, Bucky was the first "successor" to Capt. America (and indeed, was Capt. America for a short time in the comics). But all of the Hydra influence and brain-washing always made Bucky a high-risk for double-agent shenanigans. Falcon's record is clean, he's been with Capt. America since he came out of cryogenics. and Sam Wilson is up-to-speed on all issues Red Skull / Hydra / Avengers related. Overall, "someone" needs to play the role of Capt. America, and Sam is simply the best man to do so. Even more so than Bucky.


In any case, you can be happy that Jane Thor from the comics didn't happen. Just because cannonical in the current line of comics doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. But this particular thing from the comics you're complaining about... well... I dig it. I think its acceptable.

With regards to Thor's mantle passing... Thor -> Valkyrie just makes a ton more sense. Valkyrie is an established heroic character, is a true Asguardian, and kicks major ass. Valkyrie's development was rushed (she only had one movie before this one), but she's a fan favorite, and has demonstrated power more so than Jane ever did. Furthermore, Thor never was a good king, so it makes a lot of sense for him to give the title up.

IMO, it doesn't make sense for Thor to pass on his title. Even if other people become worthy to lift the hammer... Thor passing on his name to Jane never sat well with me. Capt. America (in the movies at least) is just WW2 American Propaganda about punching Nazis. Anyone can take on the mantle (but not his powers).


As far as I'm concerned, the movies did the job better than the comics did. The movie writers are playing it safer compared to the comics, but still taking bits and pieces from the original comic storyline that make the most sense.
 
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Re: MCU

Wed May 01, 2019 6:19 am

Spoiler tags for the offended ;)

Time travel is rarely a good plot device or even good story telling, its the easy way out. However it works in this case. Dumbed down for the masses. It created the multiverse that the comics have had for decades. It also explains away those awful Fox X-men movies. In the comics time travel brought us great stories and great teams that we wouldn't have otherwise seen if it was a single timeline.

Besides I'd give everything I own to see Chris Evans and Hayley Atwell signed to a ludicrous contract to bring us The Adventures of Captain America and Agent Carter, now that that has been established. Put it on Disney+
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