Personal computing discussed

Moderator: Hoser

 
PerfectCr
Gold subscriber
Darth Gerbil
Posts: 7958
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:02 am

Re: Xbox One X

Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:42 pm

adampk17 wrote:
LostCat wrote:
I'm too busy playing on this thing to talk about it much. It's fantastic in nearly every way.


I have to agree with you. I have a 4K HDR TV and the couple X1X enhanced games that I have, Shadow of War, Diablo 3, and Killer Instinct look amazing. It even looked a lot better on my friends 1080P TV. Worth every penny in my opinion.

Same here! Really loving the X! What's really impressive is now nice the old original Xbox games look. KOTOR and Ninja Gaiden look great. The native improvements made to those games and 360 games is really impressive. Of course as a PC gamer I've enjoyed improvements to old game since forever, but it's nice to have those improvements just baked in and done for you, without needing mods and such.

I have the TCL P605 4K HDR TV (very affordable and great picture!) and all the Xbox One X Enhanced games look amazing. Been playing Assassins Creed Origins a lot lately. Diablo III is also impressive on the X. Overall, it's amazing this $500 box is now challenging PC gaming graphics wise!
Intel Core i5-8400 | MSI Z370M Gaming PRO | EVGA GTX 1070 Ti FTW | 16GB Corsair DDR4 3000 LPX | Corsair RM750x | Fractal Design Meshify C Mini | ASUS PG279Q
 
PerfectCr
Gold subscriber
Darth Gerbil
Posts: 7958
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:02 am

Re: Xbox One X

Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:44 pm

LostCat wrote:
The amusing part is I love this machine so much my gaming PC decided to die on me! hah

I'm sure that's totally related.

Can't wait for Divisions X1X patch. That game looked OK on X1 and better on X1X but it's still pretty weak compared with the PC ver obviously.

As someone who has built PC's since the mid-90's (and I still enjoy it!), I am really loving the X. It's basically getting near PC level graphics (in some cases equaling them) without the cost. Very impressive to say the least.
Intel Core i5-8400 | MSI Z370M Gaming PRO | EVGA GTX 1070 Ti FTW | 16GB Corsair DDR4 3000 LPX | Corsair RM750x | Fractal Design Meshify C Mini | ASUS PG279Q
 
tanker27
Gerbil Khan
Posts: 9126
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:25 am

Nice to see you still lurking PerfectCr! :D
(\_/)
(O.o)
(''')(''')
Watch out for evil Terra-Tron; He Does not like you!
 
Usacomp2k3
Gerbil God
Posts: 21998
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:53 pm
Location: Orlando, FL
Contact:

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:46 am

I was very tempted to get the X last week when we bought the S. I've been rocking the 360 Elite since launch day (it was the first version that had HDMI back in April 2007). Paid $480 for it at the time. It has lasted me over 10 years, which is a great ROI. I couldn't quite justify the price difference between the S & the X this time around, as I don't have an UltraHD display (and probably won't for awhile as projector prices have not come down nearly as much as flat panel displays have for UltraHD). From my limited research, it appears that the extra horsepower isn't used for anything else really, so I wouldn't see the difference.
 
Chrispy_
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4313
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: Europe, most frequently London.

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:44 am

I'm curious how many "4K" games will run at native 4K.

I was playing H:ZD on the PS4Pro last week and it's definitely a step up from 1080p but nowhere near the graphical improvement I was expecting compared to 4K on PC. After some investigative searching, my suspicions were confirmed; It's upscaled from 1920x2160 and this "half-res" is stretched out like a horizontally-interlaced* image along with a previous-frame temporal filter to remove the shimmering that interlacing causes.

In short, the image quality is better than 1080p but it's a little blurrier than I was expecting. Sharper than 1440p in static images but less crisp and detailed in motion. It's also laggy! Given that TV's have more input lag than monitors, and given that this is running with a previous-frame temporal filter to add another 16.7ms delay to the existing vsync delay, it all feels like elastic-banded controls. I'm not sure how much lag was caused by the LG TV, but if the temporal rendering and fixed-refresh vsync experiences on PC are anything to go by, a good chunk of that lag was the upscaling/rendering-hack's fault :(

This fits the thoughts of others in this thread - in that Polaris isn't a 4K card. Even the slightly-wider (40CU) GPU in the OneX is still slower than an RX 580 because of the low clock speed and slower GDDR5. Anyone running games at 4K on Polaris cards will know that 4K60 is only going to work in older/simpler games at reduced settings. Take any of the AAA games that Microsoft and Sony are pushing and you will be looking at 4K30.

* - not scanline interlacing, rendered camera position interlacing; It's like blinking out of sequence 30 times a second - left eye, right eye, left eye etc and then blurring the difference....
Congratulations, you've noticed that this year's signature is based on outdated internet memes; CLICK HERE NOW to experience this unforgettable phenomenon. This sentence is just filler and as irrelevant as my signature.
 
adampk17
Gerbil XP
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Seattle Metro Area

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:32 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
I was very tempted to get the X last week when we bought the S. I've been rocking the 360 Elite since launch day (it was the first version that had HDMI back in April 2007). Paid $480 for it at the time. It has lasted me over 10 years, which is a great ROI. I couldn't quite justify the price difference between the S & the X this time around, as I don't have an UltraHD display (and probably won't for awhile as projector prices have not come down nearly as much as flat panel displays have for UltraHD). From my limited research, it appears that the extra horsepower isn't used for anything else really, so I wouldn't see the difference.


The picture quality difference on regular 1080P TVs is VERY noticeable.
Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost.

Core i7-4790K | Asus Z97-A | Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) PC16000 DDR3 | Samsung 830 256GB, WD 1TB Black | EVGA GTX 970| Corsair CX750M PSU
 
Vhalidictes
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1775
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: Paragon City, RI

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:53 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
I'm curious how many "4K" games will run at native 4K.


Most likely? None, at least none the way a PC graphics card would display them.

The current crop of consoles don't have the grunt for 4K@60-FPS. All games so far are either upscaled or missing various graphical features.
 
techguy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:12 am

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:03 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
Chrispy_ wrote:
I'm curious how many "4K" games will run at native 4K.


Most likely? None, at least none the way a PC graphics card would display them.

The current crop of consoles don't have the grunt for 4K@60-FPS. All games so far are either upscaled or missing various graphical features.


Forza 7 is native 4k - 60 FPS too.
 
Vhalidictes
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1775
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: Paragon City, RI

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:11 pm

techguy wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
Chrispy_ wrote:
I'm curious how many "4K" games will run at native 4K.


Most likely? None, at least none the way a PC graphics card would display them.

The current crop of consoles don't have the grunt for 4K@60-FPS. All games so far are either upscaled or missing various graphical features.


Forza 7 is native 4k - 60 FPS too.


Techguy, looks like that's true. It also looks like they cut down the settings to achieve that, see here: http://4k.com/news/these-are-forza-moto ... als-21050/

Vega 64 or GeForce 1080+ required for all the eye candy. No way in hell a console can replicate that without the setting being altered in some way. Which brings us back to the "or missing various graphical features" part of my post.
 
Usacomp2k3
Gerbil God
Posts: 21998
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:53 pm
Location: Orlando, FL
Contact:

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:28 pm

Don't forget, optimization for an exactly known hardware configuration can get more performance out of the same hardware versus a 'have to fit every hardware possibility' that PC gaming offers.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:42 pm

I may or may not have expected more than it can reasonably do in the 4K arena, but in 4K with enhanced titles it still looks amazing (especially compared to the original Xbox One and PS4, but even PS4 Pros enhanced titles look weak.)

I don't think anyone on the planet is actually unhappy with this box...well, Eastern gamers perhaps since obviously that market is a little thinner on X.

The Destiny 2 update just now was fantastic. I can't wait to see more enhanced titles.

(I should probably get my gaming PC fixed some month heh. Three year warranty on the mobo so eh. I'm a bit busy with the X. :) )
Meow.
 
Vhalidictes
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1775
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: Paragon City, RI

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:02 pm

I'd probably be more excited about Destiny 2 if I could have played Destiny 1. Then again from what I hear it had major issues.

I'm in a similar place, Lostcat. My AMD 390 is dying, so for the sixth? seventh? time my console budget is being redirected to a new video card.

I'm sure I'll get a new console someday (hopefully before mobile devices make them irrelevant), but for now I'm PC gaming by default.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:16 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
I'd probably be more excited about Destiny 2 if I could have played Destiny 1. Then again from what I hear it had major issues.

Before The Taken King? Yeah possibly. After? It had more content than you could even dream of finishing in a reasonable timeframe if you got it all at the same time, and was a great game.

And Rise of Iron was similar, if you're only doing the main plot missions and ignoring the rest it probably wasn't that hard to finish up eventually but there's a lot of other content to enjoy.

Destiny 2s issues so far seem to be that people really like complaining about dumb stuff.
Meow.
 
PerfectCr
Gold subscriber
Darth Gerbil
Posts: 7958
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:02 am

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:48 pm

tanker27 wrote:
Nice to see you still lurking PerfectCr! :D

Thanks! Been a busy couple of years at work (move across the country 3 times!). Taking some more time to catch up on the discussions :D
Intel Core i5-8400 | MSI Z370M Gaming PRO | EVGA GTX 1070 Ti FTW | 16GB Corsair DDR4 3000 LPX | Corsair RM750x | Fractal Design Meshify C Mini | ASUS PG279Q
 
PerfectCr
Gold subscriber
Darth Gerbil
Posts: 7958
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:02 am

Re: Xbox One X

Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:50 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
techguy wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:

Most likely? None, at least none the way a PC graphics card would display them.

The current crop of consoles don't have the grunt for 4K@60-FPS. All games so far are either upscaled or missing various graphical features.


Forza 7 is native 4k - 60 FPS too.


Techguy, looks like that's true. It also looks like they cut down the settings to achieve that, see here: http://4k.com/news/these-are-forza-moto ... als-21050/

Vega 64 or GeForce 1080+ required for all the eye candy. No way in hell a console can replicate that without the setting being altered in some way. Which brings us back to the "or missing various graphical features" part of my post.

I don't think there is any claim that the X will achieve "Ultra" quality settings like a PC will with those $700 - $800 GPUs. The entire console costs US$500, so the fact that it performs as it does for that price point is rather amazing.
Intel Core i5-8400 | MSI Z370M Gaming PRO | EVGA GTX 1070 Ti FTW | 16GB Corsair DDR4 3000 LPX | Corsair RM750x | Fractal Design Meshify C Mini | ASUS PG279Q
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Xbox One X

Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:56 pm

1440p support on consoles in April. About friggin time.
https://www.neowin.net/news/heres-how-1 ... xbox-one-x
But the Xbox One S and the One X handle content differently on each. When the One S launched, its major new feature was the ability to stream video content at 4K UHD, while the Xbox One X was able to actually play games at native 4K. The One S was still capped at rendering games at 1080p, and that is not changing. Games rendered at 1080p will be upscaled to 1440p, in the same way that they're upscaled to 4K if you have a display to support it.

The Xbox One X will have select games that render at native 1440p. It's not clear how popular support for this will be. Otherwise, if the game has been enhanced with 4K UHD support, then that will be supersampled down to 1440p. And of course, games that still render at 1080p will be upscaled on the Xbox One X as well.

The X1X does handle 4K great mind you. I just don't feel like I actually need 4K over 1440p.

Apparently the video support is still only 1080p or 4K for now.
Meow.
 
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Posts: 24339
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Xbox One X

Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:16 am

Some PS4 Pro games have a 1440p mode that runs at a higher frame rate. MLB the Show did last year for example. If there are games on the X1X that could run faster at lower res (say 4K 30 or 1440p 60) I'd go lower resolution every time, even with a 4K TV.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Xbox One X

Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Some PS4 Pro games have a 1440p mode that runs at a higher frame rate. MLB the Show did last year for example. If there are games on the X1X that could run faster at lower res (say 4K 30 or 1440p 60) I'd go lower resolution every time, even with a 4K TV.

It's still upscaled to 4K though so not what I'm talking about.

Most everything PS4P does from what I've seen is around 1440p unless they use that checkerboarding tech, then upscaled to 4K and sent to the display.
Meow.
 
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Posts: 24339
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Xbox One X

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:36 pm

well yeah because TVs don't natively support 2560x1440. The idea though is that the game gives options and you can natively render at whatever you want. I don't play on 4K because I like the added performance...most of the time I play at 1080p anyway, partly because of how far I am from the TV but mostly because I like a smooth 60fps in a baseball sim.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
EzioAs
Silver subscriber
Gerbil
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 9:50 am

Re: Xbox One X

Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:58 pm

Xbox One family (original, S & X) now officially supports FreeSync.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevang ... a5b60948f8
Intel Core i5-3570K | MSI Z77A-GD65 | 16GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Palit Jetstream GTX 1060 6GB | Corsair HX750i | Corsair Obsidian 750D | 320GB WD Blue | 1TB Samsung F3 | 2TB WD Black
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Xbox One X

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:06 pm

EzioAs wrote:
Xbox One family (original, S & X) now officially supports FreeSync.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevang ... a5b60948f8

I think that's with the update this month though, not immediately? But yeah.

Sucks that I don't think Freesync would work through my Dolby Atmos receiver tho...so I'd have to pick one feature or the other anyway

Fortunately, it's usually pretty steady framerate anyway so I'm not that concerned.
Meow.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Xbox One X

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:12 pm

Weird. They're adding 120hz output as well. Huh.
https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-a ... rsion-1805
Never expected to see that or 1440p on a console.
Meow.
 
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Posts: 24339
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Xbox One X

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:59 pm

LostCat wrote:
I think that's with the update this month though, not immediately? But yeah.

Sucks that I don't think Freesync would work through my Dolby Atmos receiver tho...so I'd have to pick one feature or the other anyway

Fortunately, it's usually pretty steady framerate anyway so I'm not that concerned.

Does the XboneX have optical output? And I guess more importantly, does your receiver have optical input? That might be a way to weasel around those problems.

Or if your TV/monitor and receiver support ARC you can go direct into the TV and output through the receiver. I do that with the PS4 Pro and my TCL 55p605 since my receiver only supports 4K at 30Hz.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Xbox One X

Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:01 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Does the XboneX have optical output? And I guess more importantly, does your receiver have optical input? That might be a way to weasel around those problems.

Or if your TV/monitor and receiver support ARC you can go direct into the TV and output through the receiver. I do that with the PS4 Pro and my TCL 55p605 since my receiver only supports 4K at 30Hz.

ARC and optical don't support Dolby TrueHD or Atmos, so no multichannel uncompressed audio. It's awkward to use with higher end gear.

eARC in the future is supposed to support them fine.

With all this and the lag of my TV, I'll probably want to merge the X1X+PC+receiver+CHG70 and give up on Freesync for the moment. I don't really play action games (or much of anything) on the PS4P much.
Meow.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Xbox One X

Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:18 am

Monitor works damn well for shooting games, wow. I like my new setup. :)

I still find it funny after constant Digital Foundry articles many saying the same thing (large improvements on the X1X) people still pretend the PS4P is as capable heh.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digi ... xbox-one-x
Moving onto the enhanced consoles, a good presentation for 4K displays is the target, and it's Xbox One X that is the star of the show here. The Scorpio Engine delivers a full, native 4K presentation - 3840x2160 - while retaining the TAA for an almost flawless, virtually jaggy-free experience. It's an impressive achievement, with a 5.3x boost to resolution over the standard Xbox One. By comparison, PlayStation 4 Pro delivers 2880x1620, a 2.25x improvement over the base model and almost entirely in line with the GPU compute power increase available to developers. This is pretty impressive bearing in mind that there's only a small memory bandwidth boost over the older PS4, and just a small amount of additional memory.

I had more quotes but I guess I'd rather people actually read the source article.
Meow.
 
DancinJack
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Xbox One X

Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:23 am

I don't even understand why there is an argument. It's the same situation as original PS4 vs Xbone. The PS4 OG had a slightly better GPU, end of story. Now, the XboneX has the better GPU and gives better visuals. End of story. Haters always gonna hate, I guess.
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Posts: 24339
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Xbox One X

Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:27 am

DancinJack wrote:
I don't even understand why there is an argument. It's the same situation as original PS4 vs Xbone. The PS4 OG had a slightly better GPU, end of story. Now, the XboneX has the better GPU and gives better visuals. End of story. Haters always gonna hate, I guess.

This. The argument gets old because, as always, people with unlimited funds can build a PC that puts both consoles to shame. It's always been and will always be about the games you want to play. If they're on a given platform, then that's the platform upon which you will play them. Or not play them.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Xbox One X

Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:32 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
This. The argument gets old because, as always, people with unlimited funds can build a PC that puts both consoles to shame. It's always been and will always be about the games you want to play. If they're on a given platform, then that's the platform upon which you will play them. Or not play them.

This is the first time I remember a console puts many gaming PCs to shame though. It's a really odd time to be a PC gamer (with all this GPU nonsense especially, but still.)

Even with my Ryzen coming back I still plan to do most of my gaming on the X1X.

(RAM still seems kind of pricy too, though I don't buy it often enough to notice much.)
Meow.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Xbox One X

Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:43 am

Only thing I don't like is if you play shooters on it the controllers tend to wear out much quicker than a good mouse does :/
Meow.
 
DancinJack
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Xbox One X

Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:48 am

LostCat wrote:
Only thing I don't like is if you play shooters on it the controllers tend to wear out much quicker than a good mouse does :/

Also I don't care what anyone, literally ANYONE, says, a joystick (even on the wonderful (seriously) X1X/Xbone controller) isn't as accurate as a mouse/kb. :)

Sidenote - I use my Xbone Elite controller with my W10 PC all the time and it is seriously wonderful. Great controller, no fuss with W10. Love it.
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests