TR Forums

I am so angry. I can deal with the generic white girl voiceover, I can deal with the technical issues, I can deal with the forced-on-you backstory, I can deal with the crappy actually-worse-than-Mass-Effect conversation system, I can deal with everything so far up to this point (although doing Cait's story and having her mysteriously fall in love with me despite the fact that we've been together all of four in-game days and we've exchanged maybe 50 words was pretty eyeroll-y.) So far, I could deal with Bethesda's "our story is more important than your immersion" garbage.

But this? I cannot deal with.

Here's the thing: I don't really like dogs and I'm not particularly fond of companions in these kinds of games as I find they require more micromanagement than they are worth. As soon as I got to the Red Rocket Truck Stop for the first time, I dismissed the dog to Sanctuary Hills. I never named him, I never used him, I don't want him around; I don't even want him in the game. I'd have put a shotgun shell in his muzzle if he wasn't stupidly made essential before he becomes a companion.

Fast-forward over fifty hours (I don't use fast travel) and I'm making progress in the main quest, totally by accident; I walked into the detective office in Diamond City just exploring and apparently I purposefully went in there looking for my lost son? (Don't get me started about how irritating it is that there's no option for my character to not be a retard and think "hey, maybe I was frozen for more than a few years after they took Shaun" so instead she has to be a crying woman stereotype going around tearing up and wailing MY BABYYY THEY TOOK MY BABYYYY!)

So anyway I rescued Nick and he wants to help me look for Shaun. I don't really care about the dumb kid, but I guess that's my forced motivation in the game, so sure, why not, let's go? We go up to Kellogg's house -- I already picked the lock and explored the place -- and find the cigars. And then Nick turns around to me and says "what about DOGMEAT?" What in the HELL? Who the hell is Dogmeat?

OBVIOUSLY I as a player of all the Fallout games up to this point know who Dogmeat is, but how does Nick know I have a dog? And why did he just suddenly name my dog? In fact I don't even HAVE a dog so much as I randomly encountered a dog on the road one time and I guess he's still at Sanctuary Hills with that gang of losers (who I am not allowed to murder for some reason?)

This was already an egregious middle finger to my immersion (again, "our story is more important than your immersion"), but THEN, I step out of the building and LO AND BEHOLD, Dogmeat is magically waiting outside. This dog who I literally had one interaction with for thirty seconds was somehow able to intrinsically sense that I might want to make use of his services, track me all the way from Sanctuary Hills to Diamond City, and then patiently wait for me to come out and talk to him?

It just boggles the mind. This whole thing just blows my mind. It's so disappointing and, just, disgusting. If you were going to pull this crap, why am I allowed to dismiss him in the first place? Why give me the illusion of choice only to yank it away whenever it's convenient for you?

I have plenty of other complaints -- and a lot of praise, believe it or not -- reserved for other aspects of the game, but this is really terrible. It's so bad I don't even want to play the game anymore right now. Just disgusting.

auxy wrote:

Don't get me started about how irritating it is that there's no option for my character to not be a retard and think "hey, maybe I was frozen for more than a few years after they took Shaun

Yeah, I'm getting tired of saying I'm looking for my "one-year old" son.

Even though, of course, he could potentially be older than Abraham Lincoln.

They're just screaming that he's going to be significantly older by the time I find him by studiously avoiding such an utterly obvious possibility.

50 hours and you're mad because a quest requires a character?!?! I've got plenty of bones to pick with this game, but I don't get what you're mad about.

sweatshopking wrote:

50 hours and you're mad because a quest requires a character?!?! I've got plenty of bones to pick with this game, but I don't get what you're mad about.

Are you **** kidding me? Are you making an intentionally obtuse post just to aggravate me? R U HAVIN A GIGGLE THER M80?!（;≧皿≦）

Can't console, click, "kill", and move on? (I don't have fallout 4, not sure if this would work on the dog).

I too however do not like companions or "buddies" hanging out with you. A mission or two with an NPC is ok, but someone standing there, blocking your shots, getting in the way, getting stuck, ect is just...bleh. ~ + click + kill.

Though I just got the Witcher 3, so I'm well behind on my RPG game set. I might get Fallout 4, but around this time next year...you know, after about 5 patches minimum.

ClickClick5 wrote:

Can't console, click, "kill", and move on? (I don't have fallout 4, not sure if this would work on the dog).

I too however do not like companions or "buddies" hanging out with you. A mission or two with an NPC is ok, but someone standing there, blocking your shots, getting in the way, getting stuck, ect is just...bleh. ~ + click + kill.

Though I just got the Witcher 3, so I'm well behind on my RPG game set. I might get Fallout 4, but around this time next year...you know, after about 5 patches minimum.

No, he's essential. Virtually every single named NPC in this game is marked essential. It's terrible.

I wouldn't pay more than $20 for Fallout 4. It's really sad because you can tell a lot of work and a lot of love went into it. The ruins of Boston, Cambridge, Lexington, and more are unbelievably detailed and dense with encounters and content, and the game's visuals are stellar aside from the mediocre animations. Wait for the GOTY edition and get it on sale imo.

auxy wrote:

ClickClick5 wrote:

Can't console, click, "kill", and move on? (I don't have fallout 4, not sure if this would work on the dog).

I too however do not like companions or "buddies" hanging out with you. A mission or two with an NPC is ok, but someone standing there, blocking your shots, getting in the way, getting stuck, ect is just...bleh. ~ + click + kill.

Though I just got the Witcher 3, so I'm well behind on my RPG game set. I might get Fallout 4, but around this time next year...you know, after about 5 patches minimum.

No, he's essential. Virtually every single named NPC in this game is marked essential. It's terrible.

I wouldn't pay more than $20 for Fallout 4. It's really sad because you can tell a lot of work and a lot of love went into it. The ruins of Boston, Cambridge, Lexington, and more are unbelievably detailed and dense with encounters and content, and the game's visuals are stellar aside from the mediocre animations. Wait for the GOTY edition and get it on sale imo.

That's the plan.

True RPG's allow killing everyone in the game, take consequences that come.

Think Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1 and 2...ah the Golden Age.

Bethesda doesn't make those though

That's the plan.

ditto. I hope to catch it on maybe like, next winter's steam sale

Hawkwing74 wrote:

True RPG's allow killing everyone in the game, take consequences that come.

Think Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1 and 2...ah the Golden Age.

Bethesda doesn't make those though :P

They used to. TES3: Morrowind stands as their crowning achievement to this day. The funny thing is, as much as people roll their eyes at "PC Gaming Master Race" and similar things, it really is the attempt to reach a wider market and the console-ization that came with it that led to their decline in quality, starting with TES4: Oblivion. Sigh.

auxy wrote:

Hawkwing74 wrote:

True RPG's allow killing everyone in the game, take consequences that come.

Think Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1 and 2...ah the Golden Age.

Bethesda doesn't make those though

They used to. TES3: Morrowind stands as their crowning achievement to this day. The funny thing is, as much as people roll their eyes at "PC Gaming Master Race" and similar things, it really is the attempt to reach a wider market and the console-ization that came with it that led to their decline in quality, starting with TES4: Oblivion. Sigh.

To be fair they allowed it in Morrowind, but you received a message telling you that you cannot finish the game because you killed a required character. I don't like the new implementation of making essential NPC's not killable, but from a game design perspective it probably is a massive headache to deal with scripted sequences when NPC's are dead or missing. Especially now when the engine capabilities are much more robust than older games. That is my guess at least. I could be wrong.

SecretMaster wrote:

auxy wrote:

Hawkwing74 wrote:

True RPG's allow killing everyone in the game, take consequences that come.

Think Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1 and 2...ah the Golden Age.

Bethesda doesn't make those though :P

They used to. TES3: Morrowind stands as their crowning achievement to this day. The funny thing is, as much as people roll their eyes at "PC Gaming Master Race" and similar things, it really is the attempt to reach a wider market and the console-ization that came with it that led to their decline in quality, starting with TES4: Oblivion. Sigh.

To be fair they allowed it in Morrowind, but you received a message telling you that you cannot finish the game because you killed a required character. I don't like the new implementation of making essential NPC's not killable, but from a game design perspective it probably is a massive headache to deal with scripted sequences when NPC's are dead or missing. Especially now when the engine capabilities are much more robust than older games. That is my guess at least. I could be wrong.

Well, no, it was telling you that you broke the quest they were related to. You actually can murder literally everyone in the game and still complete it because there's a workaround in place just for such an eventuality! This is what Bethesda used to do.

Now, they do crap like have NPCs talk about characters you have never met as if they are old buddies for both of you. It's sad to see how the mighty have fallen.

From what I remember, part of the beauty of games Planescape: Torment and Fallout and others was that there were more than enough NPC's, and based on your actions you would get some of them or not. Added replayability and immersion for sure.

Seems like lazy scripting to me. Even Wasteland (recently) had a fair amount of NPC choices.

Ex:
Planescape: Torment had 7 possible NPCs. Any could be killed or not found and the story could continue. And Morte and Dak'kon were 2 of the best NPC's I've seen in any RPG ever.

auxy wrote:

Well, no, it was telling you that you broke the quest they were related to. You actually can murder literally everyone in the game and still complete it because there's a workaround in place just for such an eventuality! This is what Bethesda used to do..

You can permanently break the game. One NPC is mandatory for completing the game, even in the "back-path" way. If you kill him before reaching the appropriate point, you are SOL. As it stands the "back-path" would be really really really hard for players to figure out on their own. You don't find that level of detail in Bethesda's games anymore for sure.

The message you got when killing any essential NPC was something along of severing the thread of prophecy, and the world is now broken. It was an eloquent way of saying "you are probably boned for completing the game but that is your choice". I prefer this method, but I can also see the arguments for changing it.

Hawking wrote:

From what I remember, part of the beauty of games Planescape: Torment and Fallout and others was that there were more than enough NPC's, and based on your actions you would get some of them or not. Added replayability and immersion for sure.

Seems like lazy scripting to me. Even Wasteland (recently) had a fair amount of NPC choices.

That's very well possible. I don't know nearly enough about these things. But I could also see how Bethesda figured it wasn't worth it to implement work-arounds and deal with all the headaches, especially when designing the game is a mammoth undertaking given their staff size and prominence in the gaming market.

Hawkwing74 wrote:

From what I remember, part of the beauty of games Planescape: Torment and Fallout and others was that there were more than enough NPC's, and based on your actions you would get some of them or not. Added replayability and immersion for sure.

Seems like lazy scripting to me. Even Wasteland (recently) had a fair amount of NPC choices.

Ex:
Planescape: Torment had 7 possible NPCs. Any could be killed or not found and the story could continue. And Morte and Dak'kon were 2 of the best NPC's I've seen in any RPG ever.

I assume you're using "NPC" to refer more specifically to the companion characters/party members that you could acquire. "NPC" usually has a more general meaning to refer to any character in the game that is not the player avatar. (´・ω・｀) I was deeply confused by your posts at first.

If you expect good writing from Bethesda you only have yourself to blame.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchw ... l_time.php

They make worlds where it's interesting to run around and find stuff, the rest is pretty much crap.

The best part of this story is that I made this same post on the Bethesda official forums and they locked it. HEH.

BobbinThreadbare wrote:

If you expect good writing from Bethesda you only have yourself to blame.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchw ... l_time.php

They make worlds where it's interesting to run around and find stuff, the rest is pretty much crap.

Hahaha, thanks for that link. I guess I haven't played any Fallout games but FONV recently, so I was spoiled to the quality of Obsidian's writing. Sigh...

auxy wrote:

The best part of this story is that I made this same post on the Bethesda official forums and they locked it. HEH.

That's more disgusting than your actual issue.

auxy wrote:

I assume you're using "NPC" to refer more specifically to the companion characters/party members that you could acquire. "NPC" usually has a more general meaning to refer to any character in the game that is not the player avatar. (´・ω・｀) I was deeply confused by your posts at first.

Sorry for the ambiguity. You are correct. But in old Fallout games you pretty much could kill almost anyone, same with Baldur's Gate. You could depopulate whole maps and eventually guards would constantly attack you. If you went too evil your party would desert or even attack unless they were the same outlook. Planescape: Torment had a reset if you went on a killing spree, which matched the game world concept.

auxy wrote:

And then Nick turns around to me and says "what about DOGMEAT?

It's kinda of like reverse-Lassie. Instead of "What's that Dogmeat? Timmy the supermutant fell down the well, by Vault 7777, near the nuka-cola machine but before the flipped-over Corvega, below the Radiation-King?"

It is like this instead:

NPC: "What about Dogmeat(TM)? Your tireless canine companion, who faithfully fought rad-scorpions and Deathclaws throughout the commonwealth wastes with you, famously co-defeating the giant robo-brain in front of vault 9999, making its denizens forever your loyal admirers?"

Voiced Protagonist: "Yes. That. Is. Him. Dogmeat: the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful -DOG- I've ever known in my life. WHAT. A. GREAT. ADVENTURE. HAD. WE."

Me: WTH? Did I cloud-sync into someone else's save?

hawkwing74 wrote:

same with Baldur's Gate

Biff the -uh-uh- Understudy!

Glorious wrote:

Me: WTH? Did I cloud-sync into someone else's save?

Bahaha!

auxy wrote:

BobbinThreadbare wrote:

If you expect good writing from Bethesda you only have yourself to blame.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchw ... l_time.php

They make worlds where it's interesting to run around and find stuff, the rest is pretty much crap.

Hahaha, thanks for that link. I guess I haven't played any Fallout games but FONV recently, so I was spoiled to the quality of Obsidian's writing. Sigh...

It's easy to settle with information that matches your view on things but the rebuttals do a pretty good job at explaining. I'm sure there's more loop holes and I'm not advocating it was a good story (I didn't really care for it).

auxy wrote:

I am so angry.

When are you not?

I'm really sad to hear about the story on this one. I'm absolutely craving something that really immerses me. Sometimes I think maybe the only reason I liked gaming when I was younger is that I had more of an imagination? I don't know if that's it because now I seem to use my imagination to come up with things that would make a better story. Maybe I've just read all the scripts and everyone else is following the same predictable patterns.

I know I'm an old fart who's been gaming for 37 years but I have hopes for Planescape: Tides of Numenera...when it finally comes out.

Wasteland was good and Pillars of Eternity was decent. Go Go Kickstarter projects.

Huh...Biff the understudy
http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Biff_the_Understudy

I can't remember if I ever spawned him. Most of my games I loved my main companions like Minsc and didn't get them killed.

Hawkwing74 wrote:

I know I'm an old fart who's been gaming for 37 years but I have hopes for Planescape: Tides of Numenera...when it finally comes out.

Wasteland was good and Pillars of Eternity was decent. Go Go Kickstarter projects.

Hmm, maybe I need to take a break from mainstream releases and pay more attention to the indie/kickstarter stuff.

"Fast-forward over fifty hours"

That's more than I game in a month, sometimes 2 months!!! :O

auxy wrote:

Here's the thing: I don't really like dogs ........

How can you hate dogs? They are literally the most loyal domesticated animal ever if treated properly. /Mind blown

tanker27 wrote:

How can you hate dogs? They are literally the most loyal domesticated animal ever if treated properly. /Mind blown

I guess it's like how some people can't stand children, or have weird fetishes. You don't just explain it.

tanker27 wrote:

auxy wrote:

Here's the thing: I don't really like dogs ........

How can you hate dogs? They are literally the most loyal domesticated animal ever if treated properly. /Mind blown

Ever been attacked by 1? I have twice for no reason in my control over the course of my life.
Once the dog got excited at having a few kids around and started biting people.
Second was the dog just bit my hand for no reason (I had spilled beer on my hand a while earlier though) and the owner had a very restrictive muzzle in his pocket so this was not an unexpected thing.

Issue is not usually the dogs but how well adjusted they are.
Doesn't matter how I treat them... I don't own them so I cannot influence that.
I have had a girlfriend with a dog move in for a few months and that was a good dog.

The fact that anyone likes dogs is bizarre to me.

I'd definitely leave it somewhere also. Disappointed to hear about it magically appearing, but hardly surprised.

Savyg wrote:

The fact that anyone likes dogs is bizarre to me.

¿Qué?

[/Manuel]