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It's ok auxy, just remember, it's only a game, maybe you can get a refund?

Get Dungeon Defenders it's a great game and then I would have someone to play with!!

Arvald wrote:

Ever been attacked by 1? I have twice for no reason in my control over the course of my life.
Once the dog got excited at having a few kids around and started biting people.
Second was the dog just bit my hand for no reason (I had spilled beer on my hand a while earlier though) and the owner had a very restrictive muzzle in his pocket so this was not an unexpected thing.

Issue is not usually the dogs but how well adjusted they are.
Doesn't matter how I treat them... I don't own them so I cannot influence that.
I have had a girlfriend with a dog move in for a few months and that was a good dog.

Not to thread jack, but yes I have and it was my fault.

The dog isn't the problem 99.9% of the time its the owner. (both incidences you described are a owner issue)Like I said, treat a dog right and you will have a loyal lifelong companion.

Captain Ned wrote:

Savyg wrote:

The fact that anyone likes dogs is bizarre to me.

¿Qué?

[/Manuel]

Having to walk them and pick up their poop is just a nightmare.

Having to deal with dog owners that assume everyone loves dogs is another pain in the ass.

Oh, and shedding. Absolutely disgusting.

End User wrote:

Having to deal with dog owners that assume everyone loves dogs is another pain in the ass.

That's pretty much why I'm trying not to bother elaborating.

anotherengineer wrote:

It's ok auxy, just remember, it's only a game, maybe you can get a refund?

Auxy's sole purpose in life is to rage. Why would she return it?

anotherengineer wrote:

It's ok auxy, just remember, it's only a game, maybe you can get a refund?

I got over 50 hours in it, so I can't. I don't want to refund it anyway, I'm sure the mods will be good. And maybe Bethesda will fix their stupid design decisions in DLC like they did with FO3.

anotherengineer wrote:

Get Dungeon Defenders it's a great game and then I would have someone to play with!!

Ehh... not my style of game, sorry.

Savyg wrote:

The fact that anyone likes dogs is bizarre to me.

End User wrote:

Having to deal with dog owners that assume everyone loves dogs is another pain in the ass.

Eh, dog discussion is better left for another thread. I'll make a thread in the offtopic forum about it.

End User wrote:

Auxy's sole purpose in life is to rage. Why would she return it?

What are you saying?!（;≧皿≦）Are you implying I'm an angry person?!

auxy wrote:

Fast-forward over fifty hours (I don't use fast travel) and I'm making progress in the main quest, totally by accident; I walked into the detective office in Diamond City just exploring and apparently I purposefully went in there looking for my lost son? (Don't get me started about how irritating it is that there's no option for my character to not be a retard and think "hey, maybe I was frozen for more than a few years after they took Shaun" so instead she has to be a crying woman stereotype going around tearing up and wailing MY BABYYY THEY TOOK MY BABYYYY!)

I haven't played Fallout 4, nor do I intend to, after my experience with some of the essential-plot-nonsense of Fallout 3. I stuck with it and then the ending came along, with the BS about the radiation - if you've played it you'll know what I mean, and I was like, "well that's a slap in the face".

But this put such a hilarious image in my head I'm tempted to pick it up sometime in the future, on the cheaps, specifically for the purpose of a wailing protagonist cliche. I can see the conversation tree now, and every single response available is just "THEY TOOK MY BABBBYYYYYYY!"

Hehehe. Someone needs to make that mod.

@Auxy

I can only agree, extremely disappointed with Fallout 4. I can easily deal with the graphics which seem to be from 2008, what I can't deal with is the stupidity of the writing and removal of RPG elements. I don't even think Fallout 4 is an RPG anymore, it's more like borderlands with some "yes, no, sarcastic" cut scenes added in. So dissapointed. I honestly don't know how they could screw it up this badly. I mean Skyrim is a great game and that's from the same team (at least it appears to be) and mostly running the same engine. So it seems Bethesda can write "high and mighty fantasy RPG" with dragons and what not just fine, but for some reason they just can't do Fallout justice. At this point Bethesda should just give up on making Fallout games. Let Obsidian do it instead, they did a stellar job with Fallout NV.

Have you played Witcher 3? Now that is a good game. I also recommend Divinity Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity for a that old-school RPG feel.

anotherengineer wrote:

It's ok auxy, just remember, it's only a game, maybe you can get a refund?

Get Dungeon Defenders it's a great game and then I would have someone to play with!!

I'M NEVER ONLINE I LOVE YOU

Honestly, I think they signaled their intent to murder immersion the moment they went with a voiced protagonist.

I men, I still really like the game, but it isn't the same franchise anymore and the complaints auxy have resonance with me.

SSK wrote:

I'M NEVER ONLIN

what you think of the game SSK?

auxy wrote:

implying

Observing.

sweatshopking wrote:

anotherengineer wrote:

It's ok auxy, just remember, it's only a game, maybe you can get a refund?

Get Dungeon Defenders it's a great game and then I would have someone to play with!!

I'M NEVER ONLINE I LOVE YOU

I know, I am keeping 2 low levels to play with you too Got my Ultimate Defender Achievement the other day!! 600 item box wooooo lol

The wife is night-shift tonight and next weekend might have some time lol

auxy wrote:

anotherengineer wrote:

It's ok auxy, just remember, it's only a game, maybe you can get a refund?

I got over 50 hours in it, so I can't. I don't want to refund it anyway, I'm sure the mods will be good. And maybe Bethesda will fix their stupid design decisions in DLC like they did with FO3.

anotherengineer wrote:

Get Dungeon Defenders it's a great game and then I would have someone to play with!!

Ehh... not my style of game, sorry.

Don't lie, you haven't really tried it until you at least beat it on easy. Try the demo, I have a spare key for the game including all DLC, if you like it

Dismissed Dogmeat for Cogsworth as a companion til I might Piper then I switched to her.
Instead of lock picking the door to Kellogg's house I bribed what's her name in the Mayor's office for the key.
So the same about Kellogg's house with Nick inside and he suggests using Dogmeat for the cigar scent trail. I liked how Dogmeat spawns out of no where in Diamond City. That sorta of ruined it for me as well auxy.

Don't stop playing yet auxy if you haven't made it to the Institute and the reveal about your son Shaun. I was happy the search for your son in the story ends when you make inside the Institute.

Was anyone really expecting Bethesda to turn in an A+ plot? It's not really what they're known for, sure they did Morrowind but that was one game out of seven or eight.

In defense of the essential-NPC mechanic they use though, NPC AI has a strong enough tendency toward terminal stupidity that not using it is likely to anger even more folks by messing up their game world through not fault of their own. Oldschool RPGs had less of an issue because NPCs usually stood in one place and had no natural predators on the local map.

Glorious wrote:

SSK wrote:

I'M NEVER ONLIN

what you think of the game SSK?

Fallout or dungeon defenders? Fallout is ok. Not witcher 3 good, but ok. I don't care about game stories, and only play them to win. I generally skip all cutscenes and dialogue in all games. Immersion isn't a thing I worry about or care about. I'm never "immersed" and not really sure what that means.
It's ok, and basically the same game as the last 4 games they made. Provided you like them, you're fine.

Convert wrote:

auxy wrote:

BobbinThreadbare wrote:

If you expect good writing from Bethesda you only have yourself to blame.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchw ... l_time.php

They make worlds where it's interesting to run around and find stuff, the rest is pretty much crap.

Hahaha, thanks for that link. I guess I haven't played any Fallout games but FONV recently, so I was spoiled to the quality of Obsidian's writing. Sigh...

It's easy to settle with information that matches your view on things but the rebuttals do a pretty good job at explaining. I'm sure there's more loop holes and I'm not advocating it was a good story (I didn't really care for it).

Fun thread, I agree about the rebuttals. FO3's plot wasn't phenomenal but it was decent, and I only had two main issues:
1. Too linear, not typical of either Bethesda or the franchise. Very little player choice, and some glaringly obvious paths were left out.
2. Enclave was handled badly, though this is as much a Fallout problem as a Bethesda one. FO:NV's heavies made sense logically, Enclave is just Obviously Evil even at the expense of their own plans.

biffzinker wrote:

Dismissed Dogmeat for Cogsworth as a companion til I might Piper then I switched to her.
Instead of lock picking the door to Kellogg's house I bribed what's her name in the Mayor's office for the key.
So the same about Kellogg's house with Nick inside and he suggests using Dogmeat for the cigar scent trail. I liked how Dogmeat spawns out of no where in Diamond City. That sorta of ruined it for me as well auxy.

I'm running around with Strong a super mutant as my companion now. gave him Grognak the Barbarians axe... he runs up and smashes stuff good.

NovusBogus wrote:

Fun thread, I agree about the rebuttals. FO3's plot wasn't phenomenal but it was decent, and I only had two main issues:
1. Too linear, not typical of either Bethesda or the franchise. Very little player choice, and some glaringly obvious paths were left out.
2. Enclave was handled badly, though this is as much a Fallout problem as a Bethesda one. FO:NV's heavies made sense logically, Enclave is just Obviously Evil even at the expense of their own plans.

Enclave was supposed to be massive take-that with MacCartyism/Red Scare taken to its logical extreme. Just replace Communists with Mutants. They fit right in with retro-50's feel of Fallout franchise like a glove. Vaults being "insane" social experiments was lightly foreshadowed in FO1 (it was incomplete). FO2 would have foreshadowed it prior to the big reveal at the end, but FO2 was rush to meet 97' Holiday season. Fan-made FO2 restoration pack (based on developer notes) fixes it though. They were supposed have been destroyed with the conclusion of FO2.

Enclave in FO3 made very little sense. You could have thrown in genetic badguys in their place.

I know where they were originally going with it, my point was merely that the Enclave's backstory and prior activities made it a target of opportunity for a new developer seeking a generic omnicidal turbonazi antagonist.

That dog thing is nothing compared to what else Betsheda has pulled of.

I tried to like their games, since everyone is always raving about them.

So, I installed Oblivion.


OK, I start on in a town, so I go into peoples houses and take their stuff, which they don't mind. Except, sometimes they'll randomly know because they're telepathic. OK, that feature they tried to copy from Gothic didn't work. Gave that up.

I wander out of town and see a stable with horses, and a stableman. AHA, I'll just forward time and take one of the horses when then stablekeeper goes to bed. Except he never goes to sleep, ever. He stood there staring at me for a week. Another feature they tried to copy from Gothic, fail again.

So I knock him out (because he can't be killed!?), and take a horse. Woohoo, I have a horse.

So, I ride a long way away, and encounter a group of men standing near a portal. I get of my horse, and they blather on about ages about this portal. And apparently I'm now destined to save the world from this portal. Thanks for that guys.

OK, back on my horse. The men scream "horse thief!" and kill me on the spot. The same men that saw me comming riding in on the very same horse, and just wasted 30 minutes of my time blathering about this portal.

/uninstall Oblivion.

This sort of thing is pretty much standard for such an open world RPG with so many choices. It's very hard if not impossible to make everything you encounter story/lore-wise match up with your experience and how you play the game. Taking every single choice into account would basically grow the game/dialogue/story-branches exponentially. I do think they probably could have done things a bit better though.

I agree with NovusBogus too. A great plot really isn't something I would ever expect from a Bethesda game. They are more about the huge game world and variety of stuff you can do in that world, and just messing around. Skyrim's plot was basically "you are the savior of this world" which is extremely cliche, and most of the NPCs in that world STILL didn't seem to know who you were somehow. Even Mass Effect (from the supposedly great RPG story writers at Bioware) has some of these issues too and that is a much more focused and "on rails" RPG than any Bethesda game.


SPOILERS!


I dismissed dogmeat right away too and Piper became my companion. By the time I got to that part of the story she was "in love" with me or whatever (extra XP!). There is a part of the story where Nick says "Piper probably knows how to find The Institute, talk to her". Since my whole purpose has clearly been trying to find my son and The Institute, and the person who is "in love" with me knows how to find them why didn't she say something sooner? That's a lot more incongruous than Nick knowing I have a dog.

travbrad wrote:

I dismissed dogmeat right away too and Piper became my companion. By the time I got to that part of the story she was "in love" with me or whatever (extra XP!). There is a part of the story where Nick says "Piper probably knows how to find The Institute, talk to her". Since my whole purpose has clearly been trying to find my son and The Institute, and the person who is "in love" with me knows how to find them why didn't she say something sooner? :lol: That's a lot more incongruous than Nick knowing I have a dog.

No it isn't. Are you serious? Maybe she didn't think about it. Maybe she didn't and Nick was wrong. Maybe she didn't want you to get hurt. Maybe she had some other personal reason. Her not telling you about the Institute is something that literally could happen. Nick magically knowing I have a dog and his name is not something that could happen. I didn't even really know I had a dog.

That's such a stupid comparison I feel completely justified in discarding the rest of your post. This kind of thing does NOT happen in "every other open world game". Sure, the writing in Bethesda games has never been GOOD, but it's never been this bad before.

NovusBogus wrote:

FO3's plot wasn't phenomenal but it was decent

I've been playing RPG's for 20 years and FO3 has probably the most idiotic, convoluted and incoherent main story I've ever come across. I know Call of Duty games with better and more coherent story telling. The FO3 writing is like a caricature of itself, it would be funny if the tone wasn't so serious.

I recommend you read all the parts: http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27085

Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 has the same lead writer, that guy needs to go.

auxy wrote:

That's such a stupid comparison I feel completely justified in discarding the rest of your post. This kind of thing does NOT happen in "every other open world game". Sure, the writing in Bethesda games has never been GOOD, but it's never been this bad before.

I didn't say it happens in "every other open world game". I said it's inevitable for this type of thing to happen in a game with as many choices as a Bethesda game has. I also said I still think they could have done a better job with the story, but apparently you missed that part. I think that about every Bethesda game though, and have just accepted that their storylines will be utter nonsense.

I can't think of any open world games with as many choices as Bethesda games. Can you? I can think of games that are just as open in terms of gameplay mechanics and exploration, but none with so many character/story choices. MGSV for example is very open in how you approach it but the story part of the game is very linear. Same goes for the GTA games, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, etc. In some ways it would be better if Bethesda just didn't even try to have a main story in their games and just made it a series of side quest storylines instead, or maybe even scrap the quests altogether.

I've never played a videogame that I thought had a great story though, even the ones that are totally scripted and linear. I just think novels and films have done that so much better than any videogame so far has. On the other hand I think videogames are vastly better at action.

auxy wrote:

No it isn't. Are you serious? Maybe she didn't think about it. Maybe she didn't and Nick was wrong. Maybe she didn't want you to get hurt. Maybe she had some other personal reason. Her not telling you about the Institute is something that literally could happen. Nick magically knowing I have a dog and his name is not something that could happen. I didn't even really know I had a dog.

The person who loves my character didn't think about having a lead on where to find my character's kidnapped son? Really? Maybe one of your other companions visited Nick while you were away and introduced him to Dogmeat. Seems just as likely to me. As far as I'm concerned they are both examples of the same thing. The main story doesn't recognize your relationship with your companions whatsoever.

If you paid attention when you first came across the dog you would have seen he already had the name Dogmeat. You never had the option of naming him.

Nick Valentine is a private detective. You never stopped to think that it wouldn't be hard for him to find out your dogs name when you were not around? Finding things out is his job after all. You rescue him and then want him to help find your lost child. I think I would do some behind the scenes checking up on you myself before I got to involved with you.

I agree, having Dogmeat just magically appear in Diamond City was lame. They could have had you go pick him up before you go off tracking the bad guy.

If a little thing like this has you in a rage I hate to be around when something seriously wrong happens to you. There are other things in the game that would justify a rant (crappy UI, keys clogging up the Misc inventory, settlement system not reporting settlement status correctly on the Pipboy, lack of detail when dealing with settlers, etc) and this isn't one of them.

Much ado about nothing much.

Khali wrote:

If you paid attention when you first came across the dog you would have seen he already had the name Dogmeat. You never had the option of naming him.

Wrong. Load up a new save and go see. It just says "DOG".

Khali wrote:

Nick Valentine is a private detective. You never stopped to think that it wouldn't be hard for him to find out your dogs name when you were not around? Finding things out is his job after all. You rescue him and then want him to help find your lost child. I think I would do some behind the scenes checking up on you myself before I got to involved with you.

How would he know I met a dog on the side of the road one time? Furthermore, the event I'm complaining about literally happened a few hours (in game time, it was like 20 minutes in real time) after I rescued him and we were together the whole time. Why are you people rushing to defend this crappy design decision? It really makes me hate you.

Khali wrote:

If a little thing like this has you in a rage I hate to be around when something seriously wrong happens to you. There are other things in the game that would justify a rant (crappy UI, keys clogging up the Misc inventory, settlement system not reporting settlement status correctly on the Pipboy, lack of detail when dealing with settlers, etc) and this isn't one of them.

The UX issues are par for the course for a Bethesda game. Bad writing is too, to an extent, but never this bad.

There are certainly incongrous things like the abovementioned "everyone instantly knows you're a criminal" or the famously lampooned "everyone can recognize stolen objects" but these are mechanically incongrous as well and in general don't really affect the story progression of the game. The story in those games is internally consistent (at least within one game...) and it doesn't go out of its way to point out that you're "doing it wrong".

I agree with the other poster who said that this writer has to go. Send him off to go write fiction, since he clearly doesn't understand the point of a game story.

I'm not defending anything. Just suggesting you use your imagination to explain how Nick knew the dogs name. All games are inconsistent some where along the line about something. I really don't see whats to get this upset about. I just shrug my shoulders and softly curse the writers and move on.