Personal computing discussed

Moderator: Hoser

 
Topinio
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:28 am
Location: London

Re: DOOOOOOM

Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:09 am

Krogoth wrote:
techguy wrote:
Also, according to this http://steamspy.com/app/379720

there's WAY more people running FSX (just FSX, not even talking about P3D or X-Plane) than there are running Doom.

this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... g_PC_games plus this http://steamspy.com/app/314160 equals about twice the user base, and the first number is an extremely conservative estimate as it's based on a quote from 2009.


Current FSX community is much smaller then the current Doom 2016 base. It is one of the classic examples of a vocal, but tiny niches. They both pale in comparison to MOBAs like DOTA2 and LOL.

Doom is being played by 4 times as many players as FSX on Steam atm and is owned by a third more people on Steam. Many more bought Flight Simulator outside Steam, this version was out for 8 years before being distributed that way, but they are broadly similar sized in install base at this point, ceratinly same order of magnitude.

I do think probably more people are playing Doom daily/weekly, but the play sessions will be shorter. Which one seems vocal is subjective, depends where on the internet one hangs out...

To this issue, seems to me a key difference is Doom is DX12 and FSX is DX9, so tech sites don't care. I own both, but have not played FSX in years and only this thread nudged me to register my Steam key from GMG and actually install the (released version of) new Doom :wink:
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX Vega 56, 250GB BX100, 2TB Ultrastar, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + G2420HDB
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030 SC, 250GB BX100, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
techguy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:12 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:35 am

Krogoth wrote:
techguy wrote:
Also, according to this http://steamspy.com/app/379720

there's WAY more people running FSX (just FSX, not even talking about P3D or X-Plane) than there are running Doom.

this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... g_PC_games plus this http://steamspy.com/app/314160 equals about twice the user base, and the first number is an extremely conservative estimate as it's based on a quote from 2009.


Current FSX community is much smaller then the current Doom 2016 base. It is one of the classic examples of a vocal, but tiny niches. They both pale in comparison to MOBAs like DOTA2 and LOL.


As Topinio stated, (and I before him) FSX sales were not limited to Steam. In fact, the version of FSX being sold on Steam is a special version known as the "Steam Edition". The difference being this new version has re-integrated multi-player support into the sim due to MS killing the MP servers when they abandoned the sim. As I stated in my previous post, at least 1 million copies of FSX were sold via traditional retail sources (there was no digitally distributed version of the game prior to the Steam Edition). Add 1 million + 600,000 and by the absolutely most conservative estimate possible you have 1.6 million copies sold.

Besides, your assertion that these games pale in comparison to MOBAs doesn't matter, we're not talking about a user base of 5 people, we're talking about well over a million (at least).
 
Frugal
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:38 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:55 pm

I am still struggling to figure out why a thread about Doom has anything to do with flight simulators.
 
Concupiscence
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:58 am
Location: Dallas area, Texas, USA

Re: DOOOOOOM

Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:58 pm

Frugal wrote:
I am still struggling to figure out why a thread about Doom has anything to do with flight simulators.


Something about driver optimization and one lovable, somewhat irascible flight simulator cultist arguing for greater representation, I think. My hat's off to him; I thought most of the FS junkies petered out a long time ago.
Workstation: Ryzen 1700, 16 gigs RAM, GTX 1070 Ti, Win10 Pro x64
Plaything: 2008 Mac Pro, 14 gigs RAM, Radeon 7850, El Capitan + Win10 Pro x64
 
Topinio
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:28 am
Location: London

Re: DOOOOOOM

Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:17 pm

biffzinker wrote:
Core i7 4790K overclocked to 4.6 GHz
16 GB of DDR3 overclocked to 2200 MHz
Windows 10 x64 Professional
Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB (Windows 10)
2x 120 GB SSDs in RAID-0 (this is where DOOM Lives)
R9 280/7950 GPU overclocked to 1100 MHz, and GDDR5 overclocked to 1725 MHz (6900 MHz effective) voltage is at 1.231 for VDDC

DOOM at Ultra Presetting with film grain turned off
Screen resolution is 1920x1080 with the refresh rate at 80 Hz

OpenGL 4.5
120 FPS Max
66/72 FPS averaging

Vulkan
165 FPS Max
89/95 FPS averaging

Back on topic ...

E3-1270 v5 stock
32 GB of DDR4 2133
Windows 10 x64 Professional
Crucial BX100 250 GB boot, Doom on the 2 TB Ultrastar
R9 290X stock

DOOM at Ultra with film grain off
Screen resolution is 2560x1440 at 144 Hz

OpenGL Vulkan
Max. 122 122
Min. 29 16
Mean 60 80


Image
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX Vega 56, 250GB BX100, 2TB Ultrastar, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + G2420HDB
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030 SC, 250GB BX100, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
techguy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:12 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:30 pm

Frugal wrote:
I am still struggling to figure out why a thread about Doom has anything to do with flight simulators.


And I'm struggling to determine why you're even posting here. How's that super awesome $200 "almost as fast as a GTX 1080" RX 480 working out for you?
 
Concupiscence
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:58 am
Location: Dallas area, Texas, USA

Re: DOOOOOOM

Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:45 pm

techguy wrote:
Frugal wrote:
I am still struggling to figure out why a thread about Doom has anything to do with flight simulators.


And I'm struggling to determine why you're even posting here. How's that super awesome $200 "almost as fast as a GTX 1080" RX 480 working out for you?


Such useful contributions you've made to a thread about Doom. Why not scamper off and talk about flight simulators in another thread, instead of picking fights in this one?
Workstation: Ryzen 1700, 16 gigs RAM, GTX 1070 Ti, Win10 Pro x64
Plaything: 2008 Mac Pro, 14 gigs RAM, Radeon 7850, El Capitan + Win10 Pro x64
 
techguy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:12 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:29 pm

Concupiscence wrote:
techguy wrote:
Frugal wrote:
I am still struggling to figure out why a thread about Doom has anything to do with flight simulators.


And I'm struggling to determine why you're even posting here. How's that super awesome $200 "almost as fast as a GTX 1080" RX 480 working out for you?


Such useful contributions you've made to a thread about Doom. Why not scamper off and talk about flight simulators in another thread, instead of picking fights in this one?


Flight simulator was used to illustrate a point that it's too early to be making broad proclamations of AMD's superiority when it comes to performance in any given API. I'm done talking about it. Also, I don't see you making any contributions in this thread so that makes you a hypocrite.
 
Frugal
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:38 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:00 pm

techguy wrote:
If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

Well I'm glad that's over.
 
Airmantharp
Emperor Gerbilius I
Posts: 6121
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: DOOOOOOM

Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:28 pm

Frugal wrote:
techguy wrote:
If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

Well I'm glad that's over.


What you post when you want everyone to know they're talking to a child.

(not that your previous posts had left anyone guessing)
Canon 6D|24-105/4L |70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|50/1.4 USM|50/2.5 CM|50/1.8 STM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8|24/2.8 IS|Sigma 150-600 | C
Canon EOS-M|11-22 IS|22/2|EF-M 18-55
 
techguy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:12 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:44 pm

So speaking of Doom, I just got it on sale from Amazon the other day, total price was something like $25 after discounts for Prime Day. Installing now, super stoked!
 
Concupiscence
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:58 am
Location: Dallas area, Texas, USA

Re: DOOOOOOM

Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:19 am

techguy wrote:
Flight simulator was used to illustrate a point that it's too early to be making broad proclamations of AMD's superiority when it comes to performance in any given API. I'm done talking about it. Also, I don't see you making any contributions in this thread so that makes you a hypocrite.


It's not my fault that you waddled into this thread late, didn't bother to read as far back as page 2 (where I started posting in earnest about, you know, the Doom game released in 2016), and then started using it as personal therapy for your abiding grievances against AMD for not supporting an aging flight simulator that has nothing to do with Doom. If you're going to call someone names, you'd do well to bother figuring out whether your accusation's merited. Good luck with your future adventures in flight - just keep it to the right spaces, OK?
Workstation: Ryzen 1700, 16 gigs RAM, GTX 1070 Ti, Win10 Pro x64
Plaything: 2008 Mac Pro, 14 gigs RAM, Radeon 7850, El Capitan + Win10 Pro x64
 
kvndoom
Silver subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:47 pm
Location: Communistwealth of Virginia

Re: DOOOOOOM

Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:35 am

Back on subject, the crashes are really annoying me. Lazarus Labs is the worst offender so far. Under normal play it doesn't bother me that much, since I can restart the game and resume from the checkpoint. But when replaying a level (I missed a secret :( ) a game crash means you have to start back at the beginning AGAIN.

The big firefight where you drop down into a lab and there's a Mancubus on the operating table, is really problematic. I tried 3 or 4 times last night and always either died (my fault) or crashed to desktop when I was about to clear the area (not my fault). ugh...!
An unenforced law is nothing more than a suggestion.
 
techguy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:12 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:49 am

Concupiscence wrote:
techguy wrote:
Flight simulator was used to illustrate a point that it's too early to be making broad proclamations of AMD's superiority when it comes to performance in any given API. I'm done talking about it. Also, I don't see you making any contributions in this thread so that makes you a hypocrite.


It's not my fault that you waddled into this thread late, didn't bother to read as far back as page 2 (where I started posting in earnest about, you know, the Doom game released in 2016), and then started using it as personal therapy for your abiding grievances against AMD for not supporting an aging flight simulator that has nothing to do with Doom. If you're going to call someone names, you'd do well to bother figuring out whether your accusation's merited. Good luck with your future adventures in flight - just keep it to the right spaces, OK?


And you're STILL going on about it. I'm actually talking about Doom now, how about you? Your hypocrisy is astounding. Speaking of Doom, I found the installation method to be rather unique as I had a physical copy on DVD. The game clearly installed and used the disc for the first 8GBs or so of the installation routine and then downloaded the rest via Steam.

Anyway, I'll post some results in OGL and Vulkan @ 1080p later today once I get my OC sorted. Downshift on results I might throw in some SSAA via NV Inspector
 
Ryu Connor
Gold subscriber
Global Moderator
Posts: 4285
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Marietta, GA
Contact:

Re: DOOOOOOM

Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:11 pm

Doom Vulkan doesn't work with custom AA methods unfortunately. It's TSAA or nothing at all.
All of my written content here on TR does not represent or reflect the views of my employer or any reasonable human being. All content and actions are my own.
 
techguy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:12 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:55 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:
Doom Vulkan doesn't work with custom AA methods unfortunately. It's TSAA or nothing at all.


:(

Also I obviously haven't gotten around to benching yet. Very frustrated with my X99 system right now, temps are way too high for the ridiculous amount of heat dissipation I have in my loop. Stupid modern CPUs with their thermal density and poor thermal transfer. I think I'm going to go a different direction with that system and leave it as a dedicated Plex server, I'll just build another machine with Skylake for Flight sim.
 
Ryu Connor
Gold subscriber
Global Moderator
Posts: 4285
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Marietta, GA
Contact:

Re: DOOOOOOM

Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:37 pm

As a fellow X99 user. You definitely shouldn't be seeing crazy temps.

My 5930K barely pushes my Corsair H110.
All of my written content here on TR does not represent or reflect the views of my employer or any reasonable human being. All content and actions are my own.
 
techguy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:12 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:09 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:
As a fellow X99 user. You definitely shouldn't be seeing crazy temps.

My 5930K barely pushes my Corsair H110.


Well, it's all a matter of perspective. For me, having temps hit the low 80's C on the hottest core @ 4.5GHz during Intel Burn Test is unacceptable with the amount of cooling that I have. It's definitely better than what I was seeing before on an NZXT Kraken X41 with 2x140mm fans.

It's not a problem with my loop either, my 1070 hits a laughable 34 degrees C during Furmark :lol:
 
biffzinker
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1963
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:53 pm
Location: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: DOOOOOOM

Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:34 pm

techguy wrote:
Ryu Connor wrote:
As a fellow X99 user. You definitely shouldn't be seeing crazy temps.

My 5930K barely pushes my Corsair H110.


Well, it's all a matter of perspective. For me, having temps hit the low 80's C on the hottest core @ 4.5GHz during Intel Burn Test is unacceptable with the amount of cooling that I have.

Well nothing to alarming for me with a Scythe Kotetsu
Image
It would take you... 2233 continuous hours or 93 days, 1 hour, and 20 minutes of gameplay to complete your Steam library.
In this time you could... Speed run Super Mario Bros (NES) 26,800 times.
 
techguy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:12 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:37 pm

You have a 4790k, I have a 5820k in the system I'm talking about. I have another machine with a 4790k @ 4.8GHz and I couldn't even tell you what temps are in IBT because that chip puts out maybe half the heat the 5820 does so I don't even bother checking.
 
biffzinker
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1963
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:53 pm
Location: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: DOOOOOOM

Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:11 pm

Ah but your forgetting your 5820K has a larger surface area plus the die is soldered to the heatspreader. Consider the 4790K has a smaller (die) surface area for heat to spread out in comparison to your 5820K. I'm running at 4.7 Ghz with the vcore at 1.271 but it managed to stay at or under 80c while generating 145.654 watts of waste heat.
It would take you... 2233 continuous hours or 93 days, 1 hour, and 20 minutes of gameplay to complete your Steam library.
In this time you could... Speed run Super Mario Bros (NES) 26,800 times.
 
techguy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:12 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:19 pm

biffzinker wrote:
Ah but your forgetting your 5820K has a larger surface area plus the die is soldered to the heatspreader. Consider the 4790K has a smaller (die) surface area for heat to spread out in comparison to your 5820K. I'm running at 4.7 Ghz with the vcore at 1.271 but it managed to stay at or under 80c while generating 145.654 watts of waste heat.


I've been overclocking since the 486 days and de-lidding with liquid metal TIM since Ivy Bridge launched. I can assure you I'm not forgetting anything ;) The indium solder used in HEDT CPUs doesn't conduct heat as well as liquid metal TIM does, and that is proven by the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf8V_Uu ... WL&index=1 Greater surface area of the CPU die and the IHS is nice, but when the TIM isn't doing the job of evacuating heat out of the die as well as it could be, this benefit is mitigated.

My 4790k has been de-lidded, and that is the only reason I can hit 5GHz with non-sub-ambient cooling and not hit Tj Max running IBT. So, my 4790k gets up to 85C on the hottest core @ 5GHz 1.4V under water (80C @ 4.8GHz 1.34V 24x7 setting) and my 5820k gets up to 88C on the hottest core @ only 4.5GHz 1.35V also under water but *not* delidded, both running IBT. My 4790k @ 4.8GHz has a TDP of 143.6W. The 5820k @ 4.375GHz has a TDP of 283.1W! You have to remember, HEDT CPUs have much higher TDPs than mainstream K series chips. 4790k is only 88W TDP @ stock and 5820k is 140W. 4.375GHz 1.3V = 80C on 5820k IBT also. Look how much faster the temps go up with 5820k. 4.375/1.3V = 80C and 4.5/1.35V = 88C. 10% temp increase for 3.8% voltage and 2.8% clock increases, that's quadratic scaling. Compare the 4790k data, 4.2% clock & 4.5% voltage bumps for 6.3% temp increase is much closer to linear scaling. That tells me the heat is getting trapped under that IHS. I was tempted to de-lid my 5820k but I figure I'll just go 8 or 10 core instead and not rely on clock speed so much. After all, this is primarily a Plex server/rendering machine so more cores is always good.
 
Concupiscence
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:58 am
Location: Dallas area, Texas, USA

Re: DOOOOOOM

Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:21 am

Ryu Connor wrote:
Doom Vulkan doesn't work with custom AA methods unfortunately. It's TSAA or nothing at all.


Correction: Vulkan doesn't work with custom AA methods when async compute is enabled. Nvidia users should feel free to keep on truckin' with FXAA, MLAA, or whatever other method sparks their fancy, but Radeon owners are stuck with TSSAA for now.
Workstation: Ryzen 1700, 16 gigs RAM, GTX 1070 Ti, Win10 Pro x64
Plaything: 2008 Mac Pro, 14 gigs RAM, Radeon 7850, El Capitan + Win10 Pro x64
 
Ryu Connor
Gold subscriber
Global Moderator
Posts: 4285
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Marietta, GA
Contact:

Re: DOOOOOOM

Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:00 am

Good to know! :)

Thanks for the clarification.
All of my written content here on TR does not represent or reflect the views of my employer or any reasonable human being. All content and actions are my own.
 
deruberhanyok
Gerbil XP
Posts: 490
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:30 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:17 am

techguy wrote:
So speaking of Doom, I just got it on sale from Amazon the other day, total price was something like $25 after discounts for Prime Day. Installing now, super stoked!


I bought a copy on Prime Day, too! I only got around to kicking off the install late last night but hoping I'll have some time to try it out this evening. All of the reviews made it seem like so much fun, I couldn't resist at only $30.
<3 TR
 
kvndoom
Silver subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:47 pm
Location: Communistwealth of Virginia

Re: DOOOOOOM

Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:05 pm

Killing all 3 Hell Guardians with only the super shotgun... PRICELESS.

I'm just sad that I'm almost at the end. :cry:
An unenforced law is nothing more than a suggestion.
 
deruberhanyok
Gerbil XP
Posts: 490
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:30 am

Re: DOOOOOOM

Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:29 pm

So far, it's hilarious. I cracked up a more than a few times blasting stuff. The "glory kills" are a nice way to keep momentum going, they don't bring the game to a halt like the chainsaw stuff in gears of war. I also dig how fast it feels - I remember Doom 3 having this slow, floaty sort of feeling to it, and I didn't really dig it, but this feels a lot like Quake 3 Arena. Which has me hoping for a Quake 5 Arena.

Anyways, I'm only about half an hour in, but glad I picked it up. I also like that they clearly went to some effort to throw extra plot and story into it, and then went to further effort to make it really easy to ignore all of it and just shoot a bunch of demons.
<3 TR
 
Captain Ned
Gold subscriber
Global Moderator
Posts: 26934
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: DOOOOOOM

Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:41 pm

kvndoom wrote:
Killing all 3 Hell Guardians with only the super shotgun... PRICELESS.

The only proper weapon of a Doom Marine. Unless, of course, one needs the BFG. :wink:
Death is a side effect of birth.
 
Krogoth
Gerbil Elder
Posts: 5388
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:20 pm
Location: somewhere on Core Prime
Contact:

Re: DOOOOOOM

Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:20 am

kvndoom wrote:
Killing all 3 Hell Guardians with only the super shotgun... PRICELESS.

I'm just sad that I'm almost at the end. :cry:



Hell Guardians are easy mode. Just circle-strafe and bunny hop around and your are golden.

FYI, they are supposed to be a mixed between the Guardian of Hell from Doom 3 and "Bruiser Brothers" at end of E1M8 in Classic Doom.

Gauss Cannon + Rich Get Richer Rune = hilariously OP combo.
Ivy Bridge i5-3570K@4.0Ghz, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, 2x4GiB of PC3-12800, Sapphire RX Vega 64, Corsair CX-600 and Fractal Refined R4 (W). Kentsfield Q6600@3Ghz, HD 4850 2x2GiB PC2-6400, Gigabyte EP45-DS4P, OCZ Modstream 700W, and PC-7B.
 
kvndoom
Silver subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:47 pm
Location: Communistwealth of Virginia

Re: DOOOOOOM

Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:03 am

Krogoth wrote:
kvndoom wrote:
Killing all 3 Hell Guardians with only the super shotgun... PRICELESS.

I'm just sad that I'm almost at the end. :cry:



Hell Guardians are easy mode. Just circle-strafe and bunny hop around and your are golden.

FYI, they are supposed to be a mixed between the Guardian of Hell from Doom 3 and "Bruiser Brothers" at end of E1M8 in Classic Doom.

Gauss Cannon + Rich Get Richer Rune = hilariously OP combo.

Gauss Cannon recharges too slow for my tastes. The SSG fully upgraded is a pure death cannon. I took the solo Guardian down with the double barrel in half the time it was taking with any other weapon. Blasting him when he was charging the 3-projectile shot stuns him for a few seconds, so I got 4 or 5 more blasts in at close range. Sucka just melted right before my eyes. The twins were cake since they didn't have force fields.
An unenforced law is nothing more than a suggestion.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest