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whm1974
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Console peasants....

Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:07 pm

OK I've been watching this guy on YouTube for a few days, and boy is he funny. He rips apart console peasants who lie about how much PC gaming sucks and why consoles are better.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGLTvO ... BtX0Rou2gw
Example video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lnXAFX ... freload=10

He has debunked serval claims made by these peasants in his videos like:

Need a $2000+ PC to play PC games.
PC gaming is too hard to deal with.
PC games are buggy and don't work.
You have to spend a lot of time to make PC games work.
Etc.

Now don't get me wrong, PC gaming could be improved in a lot of ways, but I rather game on a PC with all of it flaws instead of doing so on a very limited console. This reminds of a remark I made about the best gaming PC is one you build yourself to a person who asked me about getting a gaming rig. He looked shocked and said that is too hard for him to do and cost too much.... This is from a guy who brought both the PS3 and XB360 when they came out.

Personally, I'm thinking gaming would be greatly improved if consoles went away... But that is just me.
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:00 pm

Serval, ocelot, margay...all very very cool.
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:34 pm

Why not both? There are types of games I prefer to play on PC and kinds I prefer to play on console, I own a PC and several consoles and I game on each and I enjoy their respective exclusives as well. Each platform has its pros and cons, and the most egregious sins come from trying to force porting from one platform to another in a lazy way or in a way that doesn't make sense.
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:59 pm

I love my Xbox One for games that DON'T need the power (and for videos.) It's very quiet, has great audio, and does what it needs to do without messing with anything.

I much prefer my PC for everything else.

I will love my Switch for not being tethered to the monitor but also having that capability, when I get it.

Honestly, anyone who spends their time looking to insult people based on their gaming platforms needs a better hobby.

(Some people even game on phones! Terrifying, I know. Some people even do it on TABLES! Ahhh!)

(Also, I think those claims have been gone for a good decade now, though they might've been more relevant then.)
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I.S.T.
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:16 am

Referring to people who prefer consoles as "peasants" is real mature, dude. Realllllllllllllllllllllllll mature.

For the record, I generally only play consoles for exclusives or the rare instance when there's a significant difference(I played X-Men Origins Wolverine on PC... and I had to remap keyboard controls to a controller. X360/PS3 are superior just because that's not a concern. Other examples exist, I'm sure).
 
NTMBK
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:21 am

Some of my best gaming memories are on console. :\ A game is a game. If people have fun playing a game, then that's all that matters.

You know what? Yeah, sometimes PC gaming is a hassle. Oh look I need to update my graphics driver again, oh look this game has DirectInput support but not XInput support, oh look this game has XInput support but not DirectInput support, oh look this game runs like ass if you have less than 4GB VRAM (and runs smoothly on console), oh look this game hasn't implemented controller support despite it being available on console (looking at you Mass Effect).

I love PC gaming, but a console has plenty of value too. I just wish that they were less PC-like these days; too many updates to install, too many games that ship broken and need patching, too many games with mandatory installs. Not like the old days when you would just slap in a cartridge and play.
 
whm1974
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:27 am

LostCat wrote:
I love my Xbox One for games that DON'T need the power (and for videos.) It's very quiet, has great audio, and does what it needs to do without messing with anything.

I much prefer my PC for everything else.

I will love my Switch for not being tethered to the monitor but also having that capability, when I get it.

Honestly, anyone who spends their time looking to insult people based on their gaming platforms needs a better hobby.

(Some people even game on phones! Terrifying, I know. Some people even do it on TABLES! Ahhh!)

(Also, I think those claims have been gone for a good decade now, though they might've been more relevant then.)

OK I can see getting the Switch and other mobile gaming platforms or playing causal games on your phone, even tabletop gaming. But why limit yourself to a crippled console with overpriced games?

BTW, has anyone here have ever sold their PC games after finishing them? I never did, but I suppose a few folks do or have.
 
whm1974
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:32 am

NTMBK wrote:
Some of my best gaming memories are on console. :\ A game is a game. If people have fun playing a game, then that's all that matters.

You know what? Yeah, sometimes PC gaming is a hassle. Oh look I need to update my graphics driver again, oh look this game has DirectInput support but not XInput support, oh look this game has XInput support but not DirectInput support, oh look this game runs like ass if you have less than 4GB VRAM (and runs smoothly on console), oh look this game hasn't implemented controller support despite it being available on console (looking at you Mass Effect).

I love PC gaming, but a console has plenty of value too. I just wish that they were less PC-like these days; too many updates to install, too many games that ship broken and need patching, too many games with mandatory installs. Not like the old days when you would just slap in a cartridge and play.

Well I didn't say that PC gaming is perfect, as there is room for improvement. And yes I think that more PC games should implement controller support.
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:02 am

whm1974 wrote:
OK I can see getting the Switch and other mobile gaming platforms or playing causal games on your phone, even tabletop gaming. But why limit yourself to a crippled console with overpriced games?

Once I find a crippled console with overpriced games I'll let you know. Sales on consoles are frequent as well, they're just from one vendor so you don't hear about them unless you're already inclined to.

Hell, some of my favorite games from the last year (D4, Hand of Fate at least) I only played in the first place because of them coming with my Xbox Live sub. And some (Destiny) I can't even play on PC.
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whm1974
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:42 am

LostCat wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
OK I can see getting the Switch and other mobile gaming platforms or playing causal games on your phone, even tabletop gaming. But why limit yourself to a crippled console with overpriced games?

Once I find a crippled console with overpriced games I'll let you know. Sales on consoles are frequent as well, they're just from one vendor so you don't hear about them unless you're already inclined to.

Hell, some of my favorite games from the last year (D4, Hand of Fate at least) I only played in the first place because of them coming with my Xbox Live sub. And some (Destiny) I can't even play on PC.

Beg your pardon, but since most console games are limited to 720p@30fps, that is being crippled. And there is no good reason why Destiny(and other console exclusives) is not on the PC.
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:02 am

whm1974 wrote:
Beg your pardon, but since most console games are limited to 720p@30fps, that is being [i]crippled[./i] And there is no good reason why Destiny(and other console exclusives) is not on the PC.

Such comments make me miss the the PSX 240p era - and earlier - when games were either fun or not fun.
 
NTMBK
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:11 am

nico1982 wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Beg your pardon, but since most console games are limited to 720p@30fps, that is being [i]crippled[./i] And there is no good reason why Destiny(and other console exclusives) is not on the PC.

Such comments make me miss the the PSX 240p era - and earlier - when games were either fun or not fun.


This, so much. This week my PC game of choice has been Grim Fandango, a game from 1998. Is it state of the art 1080p60fps? No. Is it damn fun? Yeah!
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:20 am

whm1974 wrote:
Beg your pardon, but since most console games are limited to 720p@30fps, that is being crippled

Kid*, you don't know how good you have it. Back in the day we needed to play video games in the driving snow, uphill, both ways!
* Note: I have no idea whether I'm actually older than you.

More pertinent to the topic, I find the whole idea of a "console vs. PC" conflict to be infantile, always have. Good games are good games, regardless of where they're played and on what hardware.

I haven't bought any new console of any kind since the Nintendo DS Lite. I still play console games often, mostly with my son (Wind Waker is what we're on now), because they're fun and it's a lot easier to involve multiple people in a game on the living room television as opposed to my office computer monitor.

Were I to buy a new console, it would be a Nintendo Switch, or even a Wii U if they start going for fire sale prices. Nintendo always has the weakest hardware, but that's proven to be completely irrelevant. Their consoles have the console games I most want to play, the Mario Karts, Mario Galaxies, Metroids, Zeldas etc. If I want the highest resolutions and graphics, I have a Geforce 1060 and a 2560x1440 monitor for that. But I also can have a fun game experience, with exquisite design and attention to detail, from a Nintendo game.

If you're not familiar with the game series I've mentioned here, what you should try are:

Mario Kart Wii/7/8
Super Mario Galaxy and Galaxy 2
Metroid Prime (sequels are excellent, but first is mind-blowing) - PC Gamer just revisited it in VR, which I would love to try some day.
Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Breath of the Wild (haven't actually played that last, reviews have been very good)
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:31 am

whm1974 wrote:
Beg your pardon, but since most console games are limited to 720p@30fps, that is being crippled.

Crippled, eh? You must be old enough to remember when Doom v1 fanatics ran at 512x384 just to get to 30FPS for that edge in deathmatches.
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:51 am

Captain Ned wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Beg your pardon, but since most console games are limited to 720p@30fps, that is being crippled.

Crippled, eh? You must be old enough to remember when Doom v1 fanatics ran at 512x384 just to get to 30FPS for that edge in deathmatches.

Hah! When Doom came out, my family had a 386 SX/16. Doom only ran smoothly if you reduced the render window down to the smallest possible setting, at which point it was unplayable anyway because you couldn't make out a thing. I had to play Doom on other peoples' computers for a few years.
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:09 am

whm1974 wrote:
Beg your pardon, but since most console games are limited to 720p@30fps, that is being crippled.

You're playing games wrong if that's a show-stopper for you, IMO.

How old are you? And no, I'm not a "console peasant", but I have no problems playing old/retro games at 800x600 (scaled) on my 4K screen. The graphics in a game are rarely so bad that it breaks a good game.

I remember playing many games at 320x240, reduced colors, just to get some reasonable amount of FPS out of my crap machine. My first PC game was Alone in the Dark (the first one). At the time, the graphics were stunning. Sure, they're ugly now, but that doesn't mean they're suddenly less fun.
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:27 am

NTMBK wrote:
nico1982 wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Beg your pardon, but since most console games are limited to 720p@30fps, that is being [i]crippled[./i] And there is no good reason why Destiny(and other console exclusives) is not on the PC.

Such comments make me miss the the PSX 240p era - and earlier - when games were either fun or not fun.


This, so much. This week my PC game of choice has been Grim Fandango, a game from 1998. Is it state of the art 1080p60fps? No. Is it damn fun? Yeah!


A person after my own heart, I spent the last 4 days enjoying a deal I just got. I snagged 5 of the Splinter Cell games for $15.00. Yes Splinter Cell from 2002. The only problem I had was "Sticky Keys" wanted to ruin my bliss, hopefully it's gone now.
I like these old games, as I also play alot of Enemy Territory QUAKE Wars. Are they ultra-modern marvels of amazing graphical properties, Lord No, nor do I want them to be. I like them just the way they are. My 36in monitor doesn't like them so much but I just tell it to behave itself or I'll hook it up with the VGA cable as punishment...
"If you take up a starving dog and feed it, it will not bite you. This is the primary difference between a man and a dog." Mark Twain
 
cynan
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:44 am

A couple have mentioned enthusiasm for the Nintendo Switch. I guess you're right. It's the game experience that matters.

However, there's just something that bothers the hardware enthusiast in me about buying a "state-of-the-art" console in 2017 powered by a 2-year old mobile chip.
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:08 am

cynan wrote:
A couple have mentioned enthusiasm for the Nintendo Switch. I guess you're right. It's the game experience that matters.

However, there's just something that bothers the hardware enthusiast in me about buying a "state-of-the-art" console in 2017 powered by a 2-year old mobile chip.

It's not a state of the art console at all. It's a hybrid mobile/console platform that does things nobody else has done.

Worse than a console if you only intend to use it as a console, sure, but far better than a phone or tablet and you don't have to pick seperate games for each mode like before.
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whm1974
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:20 am

OK guys I do agree that good games matter more then what platform they run on, and yes I do play older games every now and then because they are fun as well.
But....
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:27 am

Maybe it's just where I hang out, but I have seen a lot of talk of "console peasants" and "PC master race" on forums and not a whole lot of talk about how terrible PC gaming is. Looks to me like a very one-sided rivalry. I grew up a console gamer who got into PC gaming in high school when we finally got a PC that could play DOOM Shareware. I'm fluent in both languages. I've owned every Sega console (including the 32X and Sega CD add-ons) and every version of the Playstation, and I have a relatively capable PC. There are good things about both experiences, and if you write off one or the other the only person you're hurting is yourself.
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:19 pm

Having been a "console peasant", I have some observations...

1. For the most part, talk of the "PC Master Race" and "console peasants" seems to be tongue-in-cheek >90% of the time. Anyone who seriously treats their status as a PC Gamer as some sort of superiority is just an A-hole, and we can all call them an A-hole.

2. PC gamers do have legitimate (albeit indirect) complaints about console gaming. Some games are designed for the limitations of consoles, and we (PC gamers) can end up with the same arbitrary restrictions on things like frame rate (I think The Evil Within did this), resulting in a poorer experience for no real reason. One of the biggest benefits of PC gaming is the ability to upgrade hardware to improve the experience, and it's not fun when that benefit is hobbled by the console version of the game.
On second thought, let's not go to TechReport. Tis a silly place.
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:52 pm

On point #2, that's not the console's fault and it shouldn't be a complaint about console gaming; it's a lazy port. It's easier to blame Microsoft and Sony for making their machines they way they did. The responsibility is on the developer, though, to deliver a top-notch experience regardless of the platform.
"And and if you start to bleed, stop wiping." -whm1974
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:05 pm

superjawes wrote:
Having been a "console peasant", I have some observations...

1. For the most part, talk of the "PC Master Race" and "console peasants" seems to be tongue-in-cheek >90% of the time. Anyone who seriously treats their status as a PC Gamer as some sort of superiority is just an A-hole, and we can all call them an A-hole.

2. PC gamers do have legitimate (albeit indirect) complaints about console gaming. Some games are designed for the limitations of consoles, and we (PC gamers) can end up with the same arbitrary restrictions on things like frame rate (I think The Evil Within did this), resulting in a poorer experience for no real reason. One of the biggest benefits of PC gaming is the ability to upgrade hardware to improve the experience, and it's not fun when that benefit is hobbled by the console version of the game.


On #2, a big pet peeve for me is when a game's complexity and/or UI are dumbed down to work with a controller. But a lot of those games wouldn't be published at all if all of those console-wielding purchasers weren't available to defray development costs.

While the types of games I enjoy generally don't lend themselves to consoles and I'm willing to pay much, much more to enjoy games in greater fidelity, enjoyment is subjective and life is too short to care. Unless you make me FPS on a controller; then I die inside.

/me sips on his Coke, rolling his eyes at all those Pepsi peasants.
 
whm1974
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:08 pm

superjawes wrote:
Having been a "console peasant", I have some observations...

1. For the most part, talk of the "PC Master Race" and "console peasants" seems to be tongue-in-cheek >90% of the time. Anyone who seriously treats their status as a PC Gamer as some sort of superiority is just an A-hole, and we can all call them an A-hole.

2. PC gamers do have legitimate (albeit indirect) complaints about console gaming. Some games are designed for the limitations of consoles, and we (PC gamers) can end up with the same arbitrary restrictions on things like frame rate (I think The Evil Within did this), resulting in a poorer experience for no real reason. One of the biggest benefits of PC gaming is the ability to upgrade hardware to improve the experience, and it's not fun when that benefit is hobbled by the console version of the game.

1. OK I'll try not to be an A-hole.

2. And yes I do hate it when PC versions have arbitrary restrictions like frame caps and save points.

3. Crappy games occur on both PCs and consoles, as well as complete turds.

4. Exclusives, I can see when the console vendors owns the game, but barring platform limitations, shouldn't the vast majority of games be on every platform?
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:28 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Console Peasants.......


You just love to insult and condescend everyone don't you?

/sigh
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superjawes
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:56 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
On point #2, that's not the console's fault and it shouldn't be a complaint about console gaming; it's a lazy port. It's easier to blame Microsoft and Sony for making their machines they way they did. The responsibility is on the developer, though, to deliver a top-notch experience regardless of the platform.

True, the frustration should go back to the developers. I only meant to point out that the cross-platform development CAN negatively affect PC gamers when silly things like that happen.

Kretschmer wrote:
On #2, a big pet peeve for me is when a game's complexity and/or UI are dumbed down to work with a controller. But a lot of those games wouldn't be published at all if all of those console-wielding purchasers weren't available to defray development costs.
This is another thing that can happen. The distinction I would look for is what the recommended control scheme is. If a game tries to let me use a mouse + keyboard, but I won't let me click through menus, that is a bad design. If the game says "using a controller is recommended", then I should suck it up and use my controller, and I can forgive some limited mouse controls.
On second thought, let's not go to TechReport. Tis a silly place.
 
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:08 pm

superjawes wrote:
True, the frustration should go back to the developers. I only meant to point out that the cross-platform development CAN negatively affect PC gamers when silly things like that happen.

To that end, sure, I'd agree with that.
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:46 pm

whm1974 wrote:
4. Exclusives, I can see when the console vendors owns the game, but barring platform limitations, shouldn't the vast majority of games be on every platform?


In an ideal world, perhaps, but the reality of business is that developers need money to make games, and console makers are willing to fund development of exclusives because it furthers their own business (eg Bayonetta 2, ZombiU on WiiU, various PS and xbox exclusives). PC being an open platform tends to have fewer businesses proselytizing for it, and the ones that do are just as bad as the console makers (Microsoft with Windows Store, EA and Origin, etc).

And then, there's the Japanese developers to consider. PC as a gaming platform is almost dead in Japan, relegated to a few dedicated fps players and the visual novel players (most of whom are using extremely outdated hardware). PC ports of Japanese games are almost universally shoddy (Dark Souls, DOA3, Metal Gear Revengeance, Transformers: Devastation), with the rare good port (Lightning Returns, great port of a 'meh' game). So while I complain loudly about lousy Japanese PC ports, it's frankly a miracle that we get them at all (fingers crossed for Nier: Automata).

I do think that many PC games suffer from 'consolitis', not just in execution, but down to fundamental game design. Things like an over-reliance on voice acting (because reading text on a TV-screen can be hit-or-miss), pared-down mechanics (Fallout 4), obnoxiously oversized inventory and UI elements (every Bethesda game since Oblivion). But I bet console gamers complain about shoddy PC ports onto console, too (XCOM, 3DO Wing Commander and Star Control 2, etc).
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Re: Console peasants....

Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:03 pm

Voldenuit wrote:
But I bet console gamers complain about shoddy PC ports onto console, too (XCOM, 3DO Wing Commander and Star Control 2, etc).

I've played some really great ports of PC games on console (Diablo and Diablo 3, in particular) and some really lousy ones (StarCraft 64, Supreme Commander). It all comes down to how the keyboard translates to the controller.

For the good ports, the controller is a natural extension of what the game is trying to do. You have 6 active skills in D3 at any given time, and 4 face buttons plus two of the shoulder buttons. It's an outstanding fit. Targeting and movement feel natural.

For the bad ports, both RTSes, the analog stick is a poor replacement for a mouse pointer and there are so many hotkeys on a keyboard they don't all fit on a controller. Both of those games were mapped very poorly. RTS can be done right. Command and Conquer 3 did it very well on Xbox 360 (same console as SupCom).
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