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derFunkenstein
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StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:51 pm

I've made no secret of the fact that StarCraft has had a profound impact in my life. So when Blizzard officially announced a remastered version of StarCraft, I was stoked.

And apparently they're keeping all the quirks that make StarCraft kind of weird. Path finding was always a little strange in that game, even when it was new. Sometimes Reaver shots are duds. Stuff like that is apparently being retained, which makes me smile.

So who's as excited to play a nearly-twenty-year-old game as I am?
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:06 pm

I'm pretty excited about it. I have fond memories playing it at LAN parties and with my brother - though mostly we played original Starcraft w/o Brood War. Coincidentally, I just finished playing through the Starcraft 2 campaigns again yesterday. And I caught myself drinking SURGE! and eating Pizza Bagel Bites while I played like it was 1999.

There are already a few Blizzard responses on the forum, and it looks like they're keeping the gameplay almost completely unchanged - right down to the maximum 12 units selected at a time. It looks like play will be interoperable between old Starcraft and this remaster.
*EDIT*
I don't know if they mean old Starcraft or if there's a new release with HD and non-HD versions.
Quotes from Blizzard on the official forums:
"HD and non-HD users will be able to play with each other."
"The original game will be free. The HD version will be an upgrade you can buy."

Also from Bliizzard:
"As referenced, a core part of the development of StarCraft: Remastered has been to maintain the "Classic StarCraft Gameplay". Changing the number of units one can select in StarCraft: Remastered would be a significant change to the gameplay."
Last edited by Cannonaire on Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:13 pm

That's the kind of thing that makes me happy. The "quirks" link in the OP is a link to an interview on the Team Liquid forums between TL guys and Blizzard developers. Pros have had a chance to play it and are happy. If Flash, Jaedong, Stork, and Bisu are happy, then I'm happy. Those guys know. It's apparently the same gameplay engine and from that interview it sounds like OG BW and Remastered will be able to play together and share replays and stuff.

Also something I missed until just now: apparently the OG version will get patch 1.18 this week to finally make it less of a pain in the ass to play on Win10 and then be totally 100% free.

The new Hydralisk design looks amazing, btw.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:24 pm

Only things I wish for to be changed is building control groups to be added.

And it is more clear when there are movable gaps between buildings.

Work rally changes would be nice, but I don't mind them that much
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:30 pm

I love StarCraft, but am absolutely horrible at playing multiplayer, I have ZERO micro skills. Single player was where it was at for me.

And yes, I still do get excited about 20 year old games. Every 4-5 years I'll fire up HL1 and play through (sometimes the original, sometimes the Source or even the Black Mesa mod).
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Kinda nice of Blizzard, I'll certainly install it and will buy the HD pack if it keeps me interested for 5-10 hours. Not too hopeful, though, as I got StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty for free with my second GTX 470 and it didn't grab me.
Last edited by Topinio on Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:06 pm

NoOne ButMe wrote:
Only things I wish for to be changed is building control groups to be added.

And it is more clear when there are movable gaps between buildings.

Work rally changes would be nice, but I don't mind them that much

I don't think you're going to get any of that (other than possibly building gaps, depending on the artwork). That Team Liquid link says they were very careful to keep the game playing like it does, because it would affect balance otherwise. It's pretty crazy to think that 19 years later the metagame is still changing, but it's still changing. Even in the last few months you can see a shift in ZvT in pro matches, where now the Zerg is getting Defilers for Dark Swarm and Plague, and the Terrans have started responding to that with Science Vessels for Irradiate and EMP.

Topinio wrote:
Kinda nice of Blizzard, I'll certainly install it and will buy the HD pack if it keeps me interested for 5-10 hours. Not too hopeful, though, as I got StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty for free with my second GTX 470 and it didn't grab me.

It's not everyone's cup of tea, for certain. And depending on why SC2 didn't get you, BW might be what you didn't like to an extreme, or it might be what you did like, so it's hard to say. The freebie status is awesome, though. I definitely got my $90 of late-90s cash for SC2 and BW, so I ain't even mad.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:27 pm

Bringing the old SC up to modern resolutions is certainly cool.

Though I'm not sure whether I'd be interested in essentially buying the same game again.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:32 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
NoOne ButMe wrote:
Only things I wish for to be changed is building control groups to be added.

I don't think you're going to get any of that (other than possibly building gaps, depending on the artwork). That Team Liquid link says they were very careful to keep the game playing like it does, because it would affect balance otherwise.

It is not happening. Just the biggest thing I found was a problem.

I think the "ideal" updates to make if they make any is basically to add the stuff WC3 had.

Building queues, multiple building selection. It won't happen, and that is fine. Merely it would take away what a lot of us find as "busy work" the issue is it would both raise the skill floor and lower the skill ceiling.

Not what you want in a hyper-competitive game.


Regarding cost... I think Bliz should make the update free to everyone who bought a digital copy of SC1+BW or has CD keys for both SC1+BW
 
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:51 pm

It's a little troubling that Blizzard hasn't announced a price yet. Activision's remastered games (CoD MW for instance) is $40. I hope it's not any more than that. Frankly I think they'll have a hard time selling it outside of the hardcore since they're giving away the original game and making the two cross-play compatible. They're going to have to introduce valuable things things outside of the core gameplay.

One of the announced things is they've completely re-built the original story, and that's cool. I hope they've added a lot of detail to interpersonal relationships. Unless you've read the novels, Jim Raynor's actions after New Gettysburg don't seem to make a ton of sense. And frankly Wings of Liberty's entire final act hinges on a deep understanding of their past that's not actually presented in any of the games.

It'll also give them a chance to fix some of the things they had to retcon. In the Terran campaign of BW, Stukov blew up with the science facility, and then in Heart of the Swarm he just shows up as an infested Terran.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:44 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
It'll also give them a chance to fix some of the things they had to retcon. In the Terran campaign of BW, Stukov blew up with the science facility, and then in Heart of the Swarm he just shows up as an infested Terran.

Huh? Stukov is infested in Starcaft 64. Not much of a retcon.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:47 pm

In the PC version he's assassinated. StarCraft 64 is burdensome to play, so I didn't know that. :lol:

edit: looks like you're talking about this bonus level.

Also I see now that it wasn't a science facility, but in the Psi Disrupter raid. Derp on me.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:09 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
In the PC version he's assassinated. StarCraft 64 is burdensome to play, so I didn't know that. :lol:


Kinda hoping Starcraft 64 gets a rerelease on Switch. Just for the lolz
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:55 pm

No reason not to include that map on the PC version of the remaster, if nothing else. It's be cool to see extra single-player content covering the time between BW and WoL, some backstory, much more of Tychus Findlay, or whatever else they could come up with.

Also guessing that re-recorded audio means Tricia Helfer as Kerrigan.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:35 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Also guessing that re-recorded audio means Tricia Helfer as Kerrigan.

And probably Michael Dorn as Tassadar.
 
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:56 pm

I don't know that I'll pick up the HD version when it ships since I've already got the original and played through it a few times. I'm not nearly good enough to play MP in either Starcraft 1 or 2, but I think it is great they've maintained the same rules and quirks with the updated version.
 
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:40 pm

This, I could do. I never got as far into the game as some of the hardcore players in my social group but it was still a great LAN party game years after the original release. Be nice to have something I can fire up on the road using a 3yo+ laptop.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:35 am

Cannonaire wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
Also guessing that re-recorded audio means Tricia Helfer as Kerrigan.

And probably Michael Dorn as Tassadar.


That would give a whole new meaning to ramming speed. ;)

Referring to Tassadar's final run into the Overmind at the end of Starcraft 1
Last edited by Krogoth on Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:44 am

I'm excited as well! Just finished Legacy of the Void campaign last year and was a little bit sad that the StarCraft story is practically over.

After they revealed this though, I was super excited. Now I can get around to replay SC and maybe understand the story better. I played the original around 1999 (or maybe 2000) and was really just a kid then and didn't really understood the story much. I was actually hoping they would use the engines and assets from SC2 for the remastered version but I understand how it would be a massive work and they'd probably need to create new cutscenes/FMVs to match the look too. Still, the original was pretty good looking and probably aged better than Age of Empires 2 did (graphics wise at least).
 
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:11 am

Cannonaire wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
Also guessing that re-recorded audio means Tricia Helfer as Kerrigan.

And probably Michael Dorn as Tassadar.

Holy crap! I didn't realize that was him.

I love that Blizzard goes all out on voice talent (they did in Diablo III, too), but there's something distinctive about the voices in StarCraft and Brood War. You knew it was a Blizzard game, because the voice of Fenix was also an Orc in Warcraft II. The voice of Aldaris is the same voice reading "All praises to Diablo, Lord of Terror and survivor of the Dark Exile" in one of the tomes of the first Diablo. Kerrigan and the Rogue leader in Diablo II's first act? Same voice.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:15 am

EzioAs wrote:
I'm excited as well! Just finished Legacy of the Void campaign last year and was a little bit sad that the StarCraft story is practically over.

I was pleasantly surprised to find that the Nova: Covert Ops missions were a lot of fun, if you want more. I'm always hungry for more RTS, and it did not disappoint.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:29 pm

$15, out 8/14:

https://twitter.com/StarCraft/status/880591840944070656

https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/s ... remastered

That price is a steal, honestly. I'll gladly buy it again. It's evident this isn't a cash grab; it's a love letter to all the people who have kept it alive for nearly 20 years. I mean, sure, it's not free. But it's not the $40 I was expecting, either.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:06 pm

It's too bad Blizzard doesn't price their games based on region. With the exchange rate nowadays, $15 is a bit more than I would like. If there's a sale that drops it to $10 or below, I would gladly pay it.

I'm not really complaining about the price here (or maybe I am), I can understand for US citizens, $15 might not be a lot. I just wished we can get regional pricing. It's kinda like the early Windows Store tbh. I avoided purchasing from the store because all apps/games were in USD but now that it's priced based on local currency, I've bought apps/games now and then,
 
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:51 am

I can't wait. Hopefully they get as many engine bugs out of the way as they can because the new classic patch had quite it's share of quirks.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/06/ ... ch-for-15/
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:20 am

Nope, the bugs and quarks are going to remain intact because Blizzard doesn't want to hurt competitive community feelings on "MAH BALANCE!"

SC2 is a superior game from a mechanical stand-point. SC1 just has nostalgia, presentation and art direction going for it.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:25 am

I doubt there are any quarks in it tbh.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:32 am

SuperSpy wrote:
I can't wait. Hopefully they get as many engine bugs out of the way as they can because the new classic patch had quite it's share of quirks.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/06/ ... ch-for-15/

That article you linked explicitly says the opposite.

Of course, the same article also says they lost all the original code (along with assets, which is believable) and then made mention of what interesting tricks the original code had. So did they lose it or did they have it available? So maybe by saying they won't change any gameplay they're saying they'll change gameplay.

Brood War offers technical challenges that SC2 just doesn't. It's not nostalgia, exactly. Sure, it's game design that wouldn't fly today. Auto-mining workers, queueing up endless commands, weird pathfinding that could (and should) have been fixed 15 years ago and smaller control groups are just realities you have to deal with.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:45 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
SuperSpy wrote:
I can't wait. Hopefully they get as many engine bugs out of the way as they can because the new classic patch had quite it's share of quirks.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/06/ ... ch-for-15/

That article you linked explicitly says the opposite.

Of course, the same article also says they lost all the original code (along with assets, which is believable) and then made mention of what interesting tricks the original code had. So did they lose it or did they have it available? So maybe by saying they won't change any gameplay they're saying they'll change gameplay.

Brood War offers technical challenges that SC2 just doesn't. It's not nostalgia, exactly. Sure, it's game design that wouldn't fly today. Auto-mining workers, queueing up endless commands, weird pathfinding that could (and should) have been fixed 15 years ago and smaller control groups are just realities you have to deal with.


Technical challenges from broken or poor implementation =! better. SC2 is a superior game than SC1. The only reasons that South Korean pro community is going back to SC1 is because of elitism, internet cafes and there's no middle men involved in the competitive scene.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:28 am

I think you're wandering into the land of "Presenting Fact as Opinion-stan". Some of us still like our games like we like our women - fast and hard. Err...something.

OTOH, I love both games equally for different reasons. There's not a bad choice, and I say that as someone who bought both Retribution and Insurrection.
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Re: StarCraft: Remastered

Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:48 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
I think you're wandering into the land of "Presenting Fact as Opinion-stan". Some of us still like our games like we like our women - fast and hard. Err...something.

OTOH, I love both games equally for different reasons. There's not a bad choice, and I say that as someone who bought both Retribution and Insurrection.


Starcraft 1 isn't that fast though nor it is that hard either. SC2 is much faster-pace game then SC1 especially LoV. The difficulty from SC1 comes entirely from its clunky and awkward UI that is a direct hold-over from Warcraft II.

SC1's its real appeal as gameplay is concerned is its simplicity. The maps, army sizes and unit types are small/few so it prevents match-ups from dragging on. The unit balance is built around Rock-Paper-Scissors in effectiveness so you don't have invest a lot of time to understand and grasp the game. It can play on ancient hardware without an issue and predates being "online" as a requirement for MP and SP mode.
Last edited by Krogoth on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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