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superjawes
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Re: Retro console gaming

Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:51 am

We don't have kids running around...but we did pick up the clumsiest kitten of the litter :lol:

And thanks for the recommendations, derFunk. I'll probably just get the 8bitdo one from Amazon.
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Chuckaluphagus
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Re: Retro console gaming

Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:56 pm

I've had a Bluetooth 8bitdo SN30 (this one) for a couple of years now, and it's worked very well. I've used it with Windows and Linux computers as well as various Android devices, and it never gives any trouble with pairing and performs quite nicely. Also has the advantage that, for a few dollars more, you can skip the dongle of the 2.4 Ghz model.

I also have a wired Buffalo controller - works well, but obviously not wireless, and doesn't quite have the same feel as the 8bitdo. Obviously significantly cheaper, though, and it does work fine.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Retro console gaming

Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:44 pm

Chuckaluphagus wrote:
I've had a Bluetooth 8bitdo SN30 (this one) for a couple of years now, and it's worked very well. I've used it with Windows and Linux computers as well as various Android devices, and it never gives any trouble with pairing and performs quite nicely. Also has the advantage that, for a few dollars more, you can skip the dongle of the 2.4 Ghz model.

Not on an SNES Classic, which was superjawes' use case. There's no bluetooth so you have to dongle it up.
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Chuckaluphagus
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Re: Retro console gaming

Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:09 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Chuckaluphagus wrote:
I've had a Bluetooth 8bitdo SN30 (this one) for a couple of years now, and it's worked very well. I've used it with Windows and Linux computers as well as various Android devices, and it never gives any trouble with pairing and performs quite nicely. Also has the advantage that, for a few dollars more, you can skip the dongle of the 2.4 Ghz model.

Not on an SNES Classic, which was superjawes' use case. There's no bluetooth so you have to dongle it up.

Whoops. Sorry, then, for some reason I thought the Nintendo Classic consoles supported Bluetooth controllers.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Retro console gaming

Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:29 am

That would have added a whole dollar to the BoM, though. :lol:
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Re: Retro console gaming

Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:30 pm

Last Christmas there where not any big ticket items I was interested in so my wife suggested an SNES Classic so the wife and kids had something to give me. I did the bios flash and loaded it with about 75 games, it runs pretty well overall. I've mostly played F-Zero and Punchout for myself, Mario Kart and Street Fighter 2 with my daughter, and a bit of Mario 3 and World with my wife and son. It was a pretty good purchase for the $70ish dollars we paid.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Retro console gaming

Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:33 pm

Not exactly retro, but the last Streets of Rage to come out was like 20-something years ago. But now Streets of Rage 4 has been announced. Dot Emu will publish the Lizardcube production. Lizardcube made a really excellent Monster World remaster, but this is apparently an all-new entry into the series. I'm psyched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_bgPefCyfA
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Retro console gaming

Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:57 pm

Here's something weird: a guy created an app to play Atari 2600 ROMs from QR codes. The ROM data is encoded in a QR code, and then the code is read by an app on a Raspberry Pi and converted to a ROM for use with an emulator.

https://www.codedojo.com/?p=2251
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bthylafh
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Re: Retro console gaming

Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:51 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Here's something weird: a guy created an app to play Atari 2600 ROMs from QR codes. The ROM data is encoded in a QR code, and then the code is read by an app on a Raspberry Pi and converted to a ROM for use with an emulator.

https://www.codedojo.com/?p=2251


Now that's pretty cool.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Retro console gaming

Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:33 pm

Good news for Sega fans is that the Mega Drive Mini has been delayed because Sega dumped AtGames.

https://twitter.com/SEGA_OFFICIAL/statu ... 0049753090

Google Translate of the tweet wrote:
【Notice】 We will change the release of "MegaDrive Mini (tentative name)" announced at SegaFe's 2018 to 2019. We had been developing for the launch this year, especially the response from overseas customers is great, again we will prepare a model that reproduces "GENESIS" in North America and European version "Mega Drive" in Europe, It is scheduled to be released at the same time in.


But it gets better: https://twitter.com/SEGA_OFFICIAL/statu ... 8645804032

Moreover, in order to achieve the quality which can satisfy all of Sega fans more, we reviewed the design centering on the original members of MegaDrive and took a system to cooperate with domestic developers with proven software development. I'm sorry for all the fans. Please wait for a while with expectation.


Since that's a Japanese account, domestic means a Japanese developer. AtGames has deleted its tweet from April claiming to be the company powering the Mega Drive Mini, and there was much rejoicing.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Retro console gaming

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:01 am

Analogue has announced the Mega Sg:

https://twitter.com/analogue/status/1052212620705509376

[Introducing Mega Sg. A reimagining of the underdog that led a 16-bit revolution. Engineered completely in FPGA. Compatible with the 2,180+ Sega Genesis, Mega Drive and Master System game cartridge library.

Pre-order yours now at http://www.analogue.co


It's also compatible with the Sega CD: https://twitter.com/analogue/status/1052212961786224641

Crazy-looking Saturn-style controller in that render. I want to lick it. Made by 8bitdo, the M30. Available for preorder on Amazon at a price of $24.99 with a Genesis-style adapter, shipping Feb 28, 2019.

Their site is down but I'm such a Sega homer that I'll preorder as soon as I see it's back up.
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Re: Retro console gaming

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:26 am

I noticed Walmart had the Arcade1Up cabinet when i was there Tuesday. $299 for the Atari one with Centipede, Missile Command, Millipede, & Crystal Castles. They also have a whole section dedicated to knock-off retro games.
 
superjawes
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Re: Retro console gaming

Mon May 06, 2019 10:02 am

Bumping this for 2 reasons:

1. Has anyone experienced D-pad issues with an 8bitdo controller? I picked up an SN30 and it was WAY to sensitive to the left (and only the left). I would have asked for a replacement, but it seems somewhat common, and also...

2. I stumbled on raphnet technologies during that process, and they make adapters for just about anything. I wanted a SNES-style controller to use on PC, and they make this, which worked perfectly for my needs (the SNES classic controllers use that connector).
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Retro console gaming

Tue May 07, 2019 10:07 am

superjawes wrote:
1. Has anyone experienced D-pad issues with an 8bitdo controller? I picked up an SN30 and it was WAY to sensitive to the left (and only the left). I would have asked for a replacement, but it seems somewhat common


Check out the tape mod: https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/171 ... -d-pad-mod

It makes the contact area smaller and as a result it reduces the sensitivity. You may not need to do all four directions, so you might want to experiment. It just depends on your preferences and the specific controller, probably.

I've looked at raphnet adapters before but I never bought one. The one I was interested in connected original Sega controllers to the Wiimote for Virtual Console stuff. And then I dumped the Wii and it no longer mattered.
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superjawes
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Re: Retro console gaming

Tue May 07, 2019 10:35 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
superjawes wrote:
1. Has anyone experienced D-pad issues with an 8bitdo controller? I picked up an SN30 and it was WAY to sensitive to the left (and only the left). I would have asked for a replacement, but it seems somewhat common


Check out the tape mod: https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/171 ... -d-pad-mod

It makes the contact area smaller and as a result it reduces the sensitivity. You may not need to do all four directions, so you might want to experiment. It just depends on your preferences and the specific controller, probably.
I did see the tape mod. Not something I want(ed) to do, and on top that, there was a clear, tactile difference in that direction (little resistance vs. slight bump for others). So the controller got returned last week.
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Re: Retro console gaming

Tue May 07, 2019 10:40 am

I hook a wii or a genesis up to an old commodore monitor for proper 4:3 no-input lag retro fun times. Usually just playing sonic badly or speedrunning Final Fantasy IV
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Retro console gaming

Tue May 07, 2019 10:59 am

superjawes wrote:
I did see the tape mod. Not something I want(ed) to do, and on top that, there was a clear, tactile difference in that direction (little resistance vs. slight bump for others). So the controller got returned last week.


That's fair. I wish 8bitdo would do more than just release additional colors of the SN30. Their take on Sega controllers is SO GOOD and SO CLOSE to the original that I wish they'd go back and update the SNES design to more closely match that original, too.
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Re: Retro console gaming

Sat May 11, 2019 8:57 pm

Been playing around with a PlayStation Classic this weekend. I tried Autobleem, but it feels limited. I have images of multi-disc games that aren't actually multi-disc games, and it does weird stuff. For example, Final Fantasy Chronicles or Anthology, or Arc the Lad Collection. Even games that have two separate experiences like Resident Evil 2 are strange. Dealing with that means you ahve two games with the same name and no way to customize that I can find.

So then I tried Bleemsync. Using it is more involved, but customization is super simple. If I want different covers for Arc the Lad, Arc the Lad II, Arc the Lad III, and Arc Arena, I can have those very easily. Now I just need a bigger thumb drive. 32 GB spare I have is not enough.

BTW I learned you can get around the voltage limiter that prevents a lot of USB drives from getting enough power. Just use conductive ink to bypass a pair of resistors. Gotta be careful about what you plug in so it doesn't draw too much power, but the typical USB 3.0 thumb drive is not going to be a problem.
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The Egg
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Re: Retro console gaming

Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:20 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Yeah, I built one last year and I've been put off by the input lag. I tried RetroPie and Lakka (which is basically RetroArch-as-a-shell) and neither one of them gave me that instantaneous feeling, even when plugged into my PC monitor. Emulators on a proper PC or an OG Xbox are the only things that have come close. I have some jumps in different Mario and Sonic games forever burned into my brain. I can make them on a real console or on the Xbox. I can't make them on a RetroPie - I fall off the edge.

So I mean, it's fine, but it's not a plug-and-play thing and it's not well-suited to action games. If you want to play some Final Fantasy it's sufficient, though. People don't put up with latency in their PC gaming. There's no reason they should put up with it in a small retro box, either.


*UPDATE*

Earlier this year I grabbed the newer, higher-clocked Pi 3B+, and an outstanding 5/5 case (has an on/off switch, reset button, breakout board for front USB ports, heatsinks included, and very high build-quality). As professional procrastinators do, I sat on the hardware for a while, and finally got off my butt this past week......just a few months shy of 2 years after posting about it in this thread, and just in time for them to release a vastly superior Pi 4. :lol:

That's only mildly annoying though, as my main interest is limited to 8 and 16-bit gaming consoles, which the Pi3 seems to handle fine when correctly configured. Like any proper encounter with Linux, RetroPie 4.4 doesn't work well out of the box, and doesn't give any obvious indication as to where the problem (input lag) lies. You would think that emulating a handful of very well known 30+ year old machines on a single, ubiquitous unchanging system (Pi 4 doesn't come into play yet), and running the most common type of display/resolution by far and wide (1080p) would be the perfect scenario for something to "just work" in its default out-of-the-box config. Apparently not.

Anyhow, after several hours of jacking around (testing on a known-fast TN monitor first, then transferring to the TV), the most important thing appears to be resolution, particularly "rendering resolution" (the res the emulator is running under the hood before it outputs to display). The default for all emulators seems to be to "render at the current display setting", which in this case is 1080p, and is excessive to the extreme. The NES for example, runs native at 256x240, and if it was default-rendering at 1080p (I'm pretty sure it was) then that's something like 34x the number of pixels for zero benefit. Choosing something much lower which is evenly divisible by the native res (say 640x480 or 800x600) yields tremendous improvement. It goes from unplayable to quite decent.

My experience with wireless controllers (8Bitdo in this case) is that you don't want to use the baked-in Bluetooth chip on the Pi3. A separate bluetooth receiver via USB performs substantially better, both in regards to lag, and ease of paring/configuring. A wired controller might be a tiny amount better, but felt lag using a separate receiver is minimal to imperceptible, and probably low enough to be concealed within the envelope of the display's input lag.

Output resolution also seems to matter, though to a lesser degree, and somewhat harder to measure by eye, except when you get two which are completely incompatible. I've been running the "DMT" version of 1280x720p @60hz with good results, as this is a resolution my TV can recognize, and also fits any rendering choice I might want to use. "DMT" is supposedly geared more towards monitors, and seems a touch faster (CEA is supposed to be more for consumer TVs, but mine handles both). There's also a myriad of other settings, VSync being notable among them, as it's Enabled by default, and a setting which is known to universally cause input lag on any system. Unfortunately, disabling it causes horrific tearing, so I guess it'll need to be tweaked to run as best as possible.

And on that note......does anyone know of a quick and dirty method for measuring input lag?? Perhaps slow-motion video on an iPhone? I'm not looking for professional accuracy, but some method of quantifying it rather than just seat-of-the-pants.
 
NTMBK
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Re: Retro console gaming

Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:57 am

The Egg wrote:
And on that note......does anyone know of a quick and dirty method for measuring input lag?? Perhaps slow-motion video on an iPhone? I'm not looking for professional accuracy, but some method of quantifying it rather than just seat-of-the-pants.


The absolute best way to check is to mod your controller. Solder in LEDs that light up the instant you press a button. Then use high frame rate camera to film both the controller and your display. Then it's a matter of timing difference between LED lighting up and action happening on screen.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Retro console gaming

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:59 am

NTMBK wrote:
The Egg wrote:
And on that note......does anyone know of a quick and dirty method for measuring input lag?? Perhaps slow-motion video on an iPhone? I'm not looking for professional accuracy, but some method of quantifying it rather than just seat-of-the-pants.


The absolute best way to check is to mod your controller. Solder in LEDs that light up the instant you press a button. Then use high frame rate camera to film both the controller and your display. Then it's a matter of timing difference between LED lighting up and action happening on screen.


Yep, this is the best way to do it. You can also make a quick-and-dirty input lag test that works on PCs by using the gamepad control panel, since it has virtual buttons that light up when it detects a button being pressed on the controller. You can't use that with a Pi, though.

Bear in mind that both of these methods are going to include whatever latency your TV adds. You can use a Time Sleuth to figure out what your TV's latency is; the remainder will be whatever is caused by the emulator. Not sure that's worth $85, though.
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The Egg
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Re: Retro console gaming

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:53 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
NTMBK wrote:
The absolute best way to check is to mod your controller. Solder in LEDs that light up the instant you press a button. Then use high frame rate camera to film both the controller and your display. Then it's a matter of timing difference between LED lighting up and action happening on screen.


Yep, this is the best way to do it. You can also make a quick-and-dirty input lag test that works on PCs by using the gamepad control panel, since it has virtual buttons that light up when it detects a button being pressed on the controller. You can't use that with a Pi, though.

Bear in mind that both of these methods are going to include whatever latency your TV adds. You can use a Time Sleuth to figure out what your TV's latency is; the remainder will be whatever is caused by the emulator. Not sure that's worth $85, though.

Thanks for the info guys. I'll dig around on Amazon and see if there's anything with an LED. If not, it looks like there's a ton of cheap hardwired controllers in the $5 range that I wouldn't have any issues sacrificing to the cause.

That little $85 device is pretty cool. I'd buy one for sure if I were doing display reviews, but it would be otherwise hard to justify. I can connect a PC and use the gamepad control panel method you mentioned to get a rough idea of the baseline display lag, and then just work to get the overall number as low as possible.
 
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Re: Retro console gaming

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:54 am

Sadly I got rid of my consoles long ago, the nes, snes, and n64 along with all the games. Didn't play them in ages, now with kids, it would have been great to have them. :(
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