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redeye
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:50 am

Can anyone suggest a good frost mage build. I recently respecced from arcane to frost but I'm not entirely happy with the way some of my talent points are spent.
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MarshaLaw
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:17 am

This is my current build since the patch (7/0/44). It is very heavy frost. The only small issue I have had with this build is when I am AoE farming with Blizzard. Frostbite will proc on 1 mob, leaving the others to come running, and thus breaking up the group a little. I don't do much AoE farming, so this doesn't really bother me much.

I <3 winter's chill, I think this was a great enhancement with the patch. The other mages in my guild love it too :lol: (only one mage in the group has to have it). It is awesome on elite mobs. Another plus is Ice Barrier now on a 30 sec cooldown. Saves my butt quite often.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=RbxZZVAGcRftAo
 
tanker27
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:45 pm

From gamespot:

Blizzard Entertainment has revealed a very significant development that will accompany its upcoming World of Warcraft expansion pack, The Burning Crusade. Blizzard has also outlined the reasoning for the changes, which are founded in the game's fantasy lore.

As announced previously, the expansion will add two new playable races, the Alliance's pale-skinned Draenai and the Horde's Blood Elves, who originally appeared in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne. The additional lore that Blizzard has released explains key characters from each race's past have affected their societies--and these effects will translate into a considerable shift in gameplay.

Specifically, a key figure from the Draenei's past, the priest Nobundo, apparently drew inspiration from the vision of one of his race's noble leaders. According to the Warcraft universe's lore, the Draenei suffered attacks by the orcs. Some, like Nobundo, fled, and abandoned their priesthood to study the primal forces of nature in Outland, the new otherworldly realm that is part of the expansion pack.

Likewise, the cruel Blood Elves will find new opportunities, thanks to their forebears, including the fanatical Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider and the wizard Astalor Bloodsworn. These key figures used a captured Naaru, one of the ethereal beings that infused the Draenei with "the Light"--the Warcraft universe's version of priestly power that infuses priests and paladins--and conducted various magical experiments on it. As a result, the Blood Elves were able to manipulate the creature's essence so that the fanatical warriors of their own ranks, known as the Blood Knights, were able to wield the same sort of holy power.

So what does all this background mean in terms of gameplay? Simply put: In The Burning Crusade, Alliance players can play as Draenei shamans, while Horde players can play as Blood Elf paladins. Previously, players on either side weren't able to access those character classes: paladins were exclusive to the Alliance, while shamans were exclusive to the Horde. According to Blizzard, Horde paladins and Alliance shamans will have many of the same talents of their traditional counterparts, though they "will also enjoy some unique abilities to themselves, similar to the priest class' racial specialties." Since this new feature will fundamentally change the asymmetry between the game's two factions, it will presumably have a significant impact on the way the game is played, especially in competitive player-versus-player combat.

The Burning Crusade is the highly anticipated expansion pack for Blizzard Entertainment's critically acclaimed 2004 massively multiplayer role-playing game, World of Warcraft. Blizzard hasn't confirmed a final release date for the expansion, though representatives have suggested that the studio is aiming to release it this year. For more information, consult GameSpot's previous coverage.
[/quote]
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Hawkwing74
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:00 pm

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tanker27
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:12 pm

from eyonix:

In terms of game design, one of the options it opens up is for specific classes in dungeon encounters. We already have several encounters that highlight the abilities of a single class or make use of a classes specific abilities. Shaman and Paladins in the previous design could not participate in such encounters. If killing a creature required a Shaman, the Alliance could never beat the encounter and vice versa. This change allows the two classes to bring their own abilities into a situation which may highlight their class as an integral part of the encounter.


Bastards Blizz are bastards! Its what I always suspected.
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Hawkwing74
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:37 pm

tanker27 wrote:

Bastards Blizz are bastards! Its what I always suspected.

Agreed. My guild is shaman-heavy, that will have to change by level 70. It will suck to kick out certain long time members. I could very well be one of them.
 
tanker27
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:44 pm

Hawkwing74 wrote:
tanker27 wrote:

Bastards Blizz are bastards! Its what I always suspected.

Agreed. My guild is shaman-heavy, that will have to change by level 70. It will suck to kick out certain long time members. I could very well be one of them.


That sucks. The only way to ensure its not you is be at every raid be the best at what ever you trak on the DMG/healing meter, respec if need be.

But I can't help but wonder why Blizz is doing this. Why not just fix the disaprity? I think they took the easy way out IMHO.
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random gerbil
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:51 pm

redeye wrote:
Can anyone suggest a good frost mage build. I recently respecced from arcane to frost but I'm not entirely happy with the way some of my talent points are spent.


Well it will depend on what you want to do.

For the most part though, imp. frostbolt, elemental precision, imp. nova, iceshards, cold snap, shatter, cold snap, frost channeling, ice block, winter's chill, and ice barrier are a good foundation. This leaves you with 20 points free to fill in the gaps and tailor the build to your needs.

For mana conservation, i would throw 18 points into the arcane tree, grabbing arcane concentration and arcane meditation to help significantly, and use the remaining few points for your choice of piercing ice, arctic reach or imp. cone of cold.

For higher dps, look at spending points in piercing ice, imp cone of cold, and also the fire tree. If you group with a bunch of fire mages, imp. fireball, ignite, and incinerate can be handy. It also makes you more flexible particularly when dealing with frost resist/immunity...though its not yet as widespread as with fire. Harder to conserve mana, but if you plan ahead with respect to mana gems, evocation and pots, etc, you can last a long time.

For soloing/aoe grinding, spend extra points on piercing ice, imp. blizz, arctic reach, frostbite, imp. cone of cold, and permafrost. Even if its just 1 point in something like permafrost, you will notice a big difference in survivability.
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steelcity_ballin
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:57 pm

tanker27 wrote:
Hawkwing74 wrote:
tanker27 wrote:

Bastards Blizz are bastards! Its what I always suspected.

Agreed. My guild is shaman-heavy, that will have to change by level 70. It will suck to kick out certain long time members. I could very well be one of them.


That sucks. The only way to ensure its not you is be at every raid be the best at what ever you trak on the DMG/healing meter, respec if need be.

But I can't help but wonder why Blizz is doing this. Why not just fix the disaprity? I think they took the easy way out IMHO.


Or play with a group of people who are not so demanding as to make the game a job, instead of a fun activity.
 
PRIME1
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:00 pm

Great. I can just see the starting area for the new Blood Elves filled with naked female elf paladin jewlery makers. :evil:

Although I am thinking of ditching Alchemy for Jewlery.
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Hawkwing74
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:17 pm

pete_roth wrote:
Or play with a group of people who are not so demanding as to make the game a job, instead of a fun activity.

I can't advance any further with 5 man stuff until at least the expansion comes out.
 
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:50 pm

Hawkwing74 wrote:
pete_roth wrote:
Or play with a group of people who are not so demanding as to make the game a job, instead of a fun activity.

I can't advance any further with 5 man stuff until at least the expansion comes out.


You and Velvet Elvis could help me get my Epic Mount. :wink:
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:38 pm

You could play on Draenor!
 
Dizik
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:54 pm

Here's the link behind the lore of the Alliance getting Shamans, and the Horde getting Paladins.

It reads well, but I'm sure the Paladins and Shamans that play are going to feel less unique due to the opposing faction having access to their class. Though the term "Blood Knight" does sound better than Paladin, I hope they keep it. If they do, I wonder if they'll bother changing the name for the Alliance Shaman. Perhaps to something like Sage.
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StrangeDay
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:04 pm

PRIME1 wrote:
You and Velvet Elvis could help me get my Epic Mount. :wink:

I would love to, but ...

I pretty much have to quit over the next year. I'll be lucky if I ever get to log WoW again at this point. I'm going to have to cancel my account until well after BC at least. I'm not getting as much financial aid, so I'm working this semester on top of school & studying for the bar.

BTW: Action Jim called dibs on my leftover lootz.
 
StrangeDay
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:15 pm

tanker27 wrote:
But I can't help but wonder why Blizz is doing this. Why not just fix the disaprity? I think they took the easy way out IMHO.

They have proven time and again that they have no idea how to get the Faction/Class balance down right. This way they essentially render the two faction differences cosmetic, and fix the ability for Horde to progress (in general) in raid content.

I worry that Shaman players, deeply invested in their toons, will now be bumped from raid content. You've essentially getting 9 classes fighting for raid slots, where there used to be only 8. Bliz has shown that they basically have no interest in any endgame other than PvE raids, and Pallies are generally viewed as having a much better endgame raid support set of abilities.

I'd hate to see all those toons get forced into PvP/Farmer Toon roles, while those players twink out and powerlevel BE Pallies. Lately, I've even read of Horde guilds making do with only two or three Shamans in the entire raid, and boosting the slots for Druids and Priests to make up the difference.
 
random gerbil
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:50 pm

Velvet Elvis wrote:
I worry that Shaman players, deeply invested in their toons, will now be bumped from raid content. You've essentially getting 9 classes fighting for raid slots, where there used to be only 8. Bliz has shown that they basically have no interest in any endgame other than PvE raids, and Pallies are generally viewed as having a much better endgame raid support set of abilities.


I think your worry is unfounded. Pally cant replace shaman, shaman cant replace pally. Yes there will be more classes, but the addition of pallies wont come at the exclusive expense of shaman...instead of loading up on extra druids/priests, add a couple of pallies. Or rather than bring 8-9 mages (as my guild seems to have every night) swap in a couple shamans/pallies for them. Yes shamans have to compete with another class, but so will everyone else.
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RoninGyrbill
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Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:41 pm

shadowpriests rejoice, let the pallies do the work
 
StrangeDay
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Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:55 am

random gerbil wrote:
I think your worry is unfounded. Pally cant replace shaman, shaman cant replace pally. Yes there will be more classes, but the addition of pallies wont come at the exclusive expense of shaman...instead of loading up on extra druids/priests, add a couple of pallies. Or rather than bring 8-9 mages (as my guild seems to have every night) swap in a couple shamans/pallies for them. Yes shamans have to compete with another class, but so will everyone else.

Unfounded? I don't think so.

Shaman players (esp the ones I've talked to) are very frustrated with their role in endgame. Pigeon-holing Shamans into a strict healing role takes a huge investment in talent points and a lot of fighting over healer gear to make up for the shortcomings of a shallow mana pool an inefficient spells. It's gotten so tedious that many Shaman players are re-rolling now.

This largely stems from the fact that Shaman is constructed as an Elemental Nuker/Melee hybrid, with a portfolio of talents that are much better for PvP than PvE. When a Shaman is forced into an endgame deep healing role, the abilities do not support the role the same way that a Priest's or a Druid's will ... the design just doesn't match up.

I'm also saying that Horde guilds are souring to the Shaman as a support class alltogether, and right now. When they can (Windrunner doesn't have the luxury) they are filling support slots with more efficient healers.

Paladin is a much better constructed PvE raid support class (much to Paladins' chagrin). Shaman is a much better constructed PvP/PvE Solo class. Especially in an endgame raid environment, Shaman has only a couple things over Palladin (DPS [if a DPS slot is even available] and a couple totem effects). This is greatly outweighed by the abilities a Paladin brings to a raid. The totem design is extremely taxing on a Shaman's mana pool, Shamans lack a true "raid" buff, and their heals are not as efficient as Druid or Priest.

I see Shaman becoming the next Warrior and Rogue. Horde on Windrunner seems clogged with Warriors, Shaman, and Rogues in that order. It just seems that everyone's little brother rolled one up during the big PvP push. If you have one at 60 ... good luck getting into a guild.

Bliz had shown time and again a commitment to endgame raiding as their only real endgame concept. Once you introduce an arguably better desinged endgame raiding support class to Horde, limiting slots available to Shamans is going to be the natural result. I think the only factor that will diminish this effect in the long run, is that fact that Paladin seems an absolute chore to level.
 
redeye
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Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:25 am

I just see the possibility of the combinations. Pally and shaman together would be uber powerful. Windfury totem + seal of command + judgement of wisdom + shocks. The shaman would never run out of mana and the paladins attack power would be phenominal.

I do think they need to do something for raiding for the shamans though. I single totem like buff that effects the entire raid.
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StrangeDay
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Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:43 am

redeye wrote:
I just see the possibility of the combinations. Pally and shaman together would be uber powerful. Windfury totem + seal of command + judgement of wisdom + shocks. The shaman would never run out of mana and the paladins attack power would be phenominal.

I do think they need to do something for raiding for the shamans though. I single totem like buff that effects the entire raid.

I know, there's a lot of possibility for synergy between the two.

I've been saying the same thing about a raid totem for ages, especially in light of Druids getting Innervate trainable. If Blue deigns to respond, it's usually to say that such a creation would make the Shaman too powerful. I say so what. The only way it would be too powerful, is if it made them even more powerful in PvP. Blue has been saying for ages that the game isn't balanced around PvP (while at the same time keeping quiet about thier PvE raid fixation). How hard would it be to make Tranquil Air Totem a raid buff? It would have zero effect on PvP.
 
random gerbil
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Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:28 am

Velvet Elvis wrote:
Shaman players (esp the ones I've talked to) are very frustrated with their role in endgame. Pigeon-holing Shamans into a strict healing role takes a huge investment in talent points and a lot of fighting over healer gear to make up for the shortcomings of a shallow mana pool an inefficient spells. It's gotten so tedious that many Shaman players are re-rolling now.


The same goes for paladin. They are and have always been healbots in endgame, not nearly as good as priests and druids, and MANY have rerolled for that reason. The server used to be flooded with them, and then everyone realized how gimp they are.

You guys are trivializing shamans roll in endgame needlessly. How many top alliance raid guilds wish they could add shamans?? Everyone one. Patchwerk and Gluth in Naxx, Vaelastraz and Razorgore in BWL, for example, will all become ezmode with totems.
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Hawkwing74
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Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:36 pm

Lol Vael and Razor are like the only fights where totems are actually required. And that one poison boss in AQ40. (Not in Naxx yet) And in Razor, they don't work on dragonkin or mages so it's not that much of an ezmode.
 
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Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:06 pm

Hawkwing74 wrote:
Lol Vael and Razor are like the only fights where totems are actually required. And that one poison boss in AQ40. (Not in Naxx yet) And in Razor, they don't work on dragonkin or mages so it's not that much of an ezmode.

So is it mostly just a waste of mana for you? I've been reading that some Shaman don't even drop them, saving the mana for healing their designated targets.
 
Hawkwing74
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Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:01 pm

I guess I drop one in MC based on what group I'm in, but they are hardly required.
 
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Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:18 pm

The guild I used to raid nightly with (now mostly inactive, I delinked my DKP until Xpack) is going absolutely ape**** over this news.

Maybe 5% are whining about it, 95% think its going to be so nice. Just windfury on melee DPS with -threat blessings seals the deal for me.
 
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Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:20 pm

I just noticed that Taurens dance like the "peanutbutter-jelly" banana

They also need to label the zepplin master outside of Orgrimmar better...I wanted a ride to Tirsfal Glades and ended up in Stranglethorn Vale.
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Severus
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Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:48 am

Wheeeee....

So, somewhat late to the party here, but what the hell - I was bought a copy for Christmas but only just installed for the first time last night - using my free 30 days. Downloading 454MB of patches on first start sounded like a nightmare but my average transfer rate was 2.05MB/s - <3 22Mbps DSL :D

Partly delayed it because I used to have a massive, chronic, addiction to UO... anyway, I'm much older and wiser now and have a day job and a life and am fairly sure I can manage my addictive tendencies :)

So, anyway, I'm basically here to say "Hey, I'm new!" I'm based in Aus so will likely spend a lot of time on the Oceanic servers, but if I wanted to play with some TR types then which servers are you guys on these days? I've read the first 30 pages of this thread but now my eyes are bleeding :)

Do you still have a guild? Anyone got any advice for a total newbie?

I used to have a miner/blacksmith/tank in UO who kicked ass in a big way, so I figured I might craft a similar character in WoW initially. Or am I missing out by bypassing magic, etc? Also, what's a reasonable amount of game time to get a character up to the "no longer gets whooped whenever he steps outside" level?

Its all a lot more complex than UO, but I guess that's to be expected since UO is what, 10 years old now?! Anyway... help, help, help!
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tanker27
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Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:13 am

random gerbil wrote:
Velvet Elvis wrote:
I worry that Shaman players, deeply invested in their toons, will now be bumped from raid content. You've essentially getting 9 classes fighting for raid slots, where there used to be only 8. Bliz has shown that they basically have no interest in any endgame other than PvE raids, and Pallies are generally viewed as having a much better endgame raid support set of abilities.


I think your worry is unfounded. Pally cant replace shaman, shaman cant replace pally. Yes there will be more classes, but the addition of pallies wont come at the exclusive expense of shaman...instead of loading up on extra druids/priests, add a couple of pallies. Or rather than bring 8-9 mages (as my guild seems to have every night) swap in a couple shamans/pallies for them. Yes shamans have to compete with another class, but so will everyone else.


We usually raid with 1 or 2 pallys, sometimes 3, rarely 4 or more. Pally's use to be a huge population on Lothar but it seems they all have rerolled. So we have a shortage.

I relish the thought of a Shaman in Raid but realisically when x-Pac is released it going to be hard to get them up to speed where the guild is. Even if they skip T1 and T2 stuff.

Now on the flip side, Horde may see a influx on Pallies. And remember they get a free horse. :wink:
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Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:22 am

tanker27 wrote:
but realisically when x-Pac is released


X-Pac?

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