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TheRazorsEdge
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:30 pm

strangequark18 wrote:
I'd almost prefer if they (quest givers) would just say hey, if you get a bunch of the pelt from this deer I will make you a piece of gear, and that's it - no continuation.

The profession quests are kind of like this. You go to a trainer in Dalaran, they teach you a bit then point you to someone out in the world. If you do quests for that "expert", you learn new skills or patterns.

They are not really involved in the Legion invasion, artifact hunt, Pillars of Creation story, or anything like that. They're just doing their jobs.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:16 am

TheRazorsEdge wrote:
strangequark18 wrote:
I'd almost prefer if they (quest givers) would just say hey, if you get a bunch of the pelt from this deer I will make you a piece of gear, and that's it - no continuation.

The profession quests are kind of like this. You go to a trainer in Dalaran, they teach you a bit then point you to someone out in the world. If you do quests for that "expert", you learn new skills or patterns.

They are not really involved in the Legion invasion, artifact hunt, Pillars of Creation story, or anything like that. They're just doing their jobs.

Cool, I'm excited to try those. I've done just the 4 zones and some class hall stuff so far. The class hall stuff seems pretty neat, especially as an alternative to garrisons.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:58 pm

strangequark18 wrote:
Cool, I'm excited to try those. I've done just the 4 zones and some class hall stuff so far. The class hall stuff seems pretty neat, especially as an alternative to garrisons.

I think the class halls are better overall.

The garrison system basically isolated you from the rest of the game. If you did garrison things, it was instead of going out into the world or running dungeons/raids. And you could get anything you wanted from garrisons---gold, crafting materials, gear.

The class hall is more of a hub, and the quest line repeatedly sends you outside. I've completed one class campaign and maybe 1/3 of another, and there are interesting/unique quests and story developments in each. It will make alts more interesting---unlike garrisons, which were essentially the same thing every time.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:46 pm

I just finished my rogue class hall quest, have to say it was very well done and I enjoyed it a lot. Plus blizz has said they will add more things to it as the expansion moves on. I have been spending a ton of time out in the world doing stuff, with just short periods of time back to town to do a few things. The have really made it so you go out int he world and do not sit in town being bored. Very pleased with this expansion so far, guildies very pleased also.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:18 am

So Metzen announced he is retiring (No he's not going to start up another studio or work on something without Blizzard)....Jesus the guy is a year younger than me. I have mixed feelings about it. He may not have been the best story teller ever but damn if the guy didn't have a passion for his games. Who is going to voice Thrall now???

Happy trails to him, for better or worse he gave me games that I could escape in.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:05 pm

Whether or not his story telling is great, I have a lot of respect for people who contributed to the gaming industry as early as Chris. I'm sure it seemed like a big risk at the time. He and few others helped satisfy a huge demand that the market otherwise failed to.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:13 pm

Ifalna wrote:
Talent trees were pointless for many classes.
As an SPriest I had one raiding spec. Everything else was essentially gimping myself.

I spent the points once and forget about them trees until the next expansion launched or Blizzard changed sth. major in a patch.

I vastly prefer the current ability selection where you vary playstyles on a "per encounter" basis.

PS: Elitistjerks already existed in 2006 when I started. I'm sure similar pages existed back in 2004 too. The knowledge was always public and people always ranted ingame if you deviated from cookie cutter.

I liked the old talent trees. But not because of any balance issues, or the fact that there was indeed the "known best build" for every spec as you mention.

SPriest... spec.

You know, in the good old days of late BC / early Wrath, I never had a spec. I didn't need to have a spec because you could do this thing where you made your own by going down multiple trees at once (YMMV). 

The major disadvantage of the current system is that you can't blend specs.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:21 pm

strangequark18 wrote:
Whether or not his story telling is great, I have a lot of respect for people who contributed to the gaming industry as early as Chris. I'm sure it seemed like a big risk at the time. He and few others helped satisfy a huge demand that the market otherwise failed to.

You're right, he was a pioneer in the sense that it was something of a risk for Blizzard.

Major MMOs that predate WOW include:
Everquest 1 (this does things that WOW never did, like side-switching a character in-game using faction gains/losses, and language learning).
Asheron's Call 
Anarchy Online
Dark Age of Camelot
Earth and Beyond (Easy for new players to learn)
EVE Online (WOW is finally approaching a single-instance design)
Star Wars: Galaxies (debatable how popular this was at the time)
City of Heroes (Allowed massive character customization, something WOW still doesn't have)
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:33 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
You know, in the good old days of late BC / early Wrath, I never had a spec. I didn't need to have a spec because you could do this thing where you made your own by going down multiple trees at once (YMMV). 

The major disadvantage of the current system is that you can't blend specs.

++, there's fewer viable builds, and the decline in subscribers from the peak seems to have reduced the web ecosystem and means less published info on the actually viable builds :-?

On the plus side, I'm typing this while in a login server queue so something is on the up.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:16 pm

Starfalcon wrote:
I just finished my rogue class hall quest, have to say it was very well done and I enjoyed it a lot.  Plus blizz has said they will add more things to it as the expansion moves on.  I have been spending a ton of time out in the world doing stuff, with just short periods of time back to town to do a few things.  The have really made it so you go out int he world and do not sit in town being bored.   Very pleased with this expansion so far, guildies very pleased also.

This, I actually just noticed that yesterday and I'm level 107, its been a very nice change of pace. 
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:53 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
SPriest... spec.

You know, in the good old days of late BC / early Wrath, I never had a spec. I didn't need to have a spec because you could do this thing where you made your own by going down multiple trees at once (YMMV). 

The major disadvantage of the current system is that you can't blend specs.

No you could not. 
At least not if you expected to raid on a competitive level. SPriest was supposed to regen Mana/HP, our DPS was pitiful back in TBC (around half of what a sunwell rogue could do). 
Mana regen was the only reason why we were allowed to come along. Since VT was all the way down in our talent tee, we were very limited in which way we could spend points into other trees.
People look back at these talent trees with a ridiculous degree of romanticization and always forget about one thing: while the game allowed you to do all kinds of gimp builds, ultimately you needed to play with others and that mandates their acceptance of your practices. If you gimped you char to be "special snowflake player" the other players simply would not take you along. And that was that.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:31 am

Ifalna wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
SPriest... spec.

You know, in the good old days of late BC / early Wrath, I never had a spec. I didn't need to have a spec because you could do this thing where you made your own by going down multiple trees at once (YMMV). 

The major disadvantage of the current system is that you can't blend specs.

No you could not. 
At least not if you expected to raid on a competitive level. SPriest was supposed to regen Mana/HP, our DPS was pitiful back in TBC (around half of what a sunwell rogue could do). 
Mana regen was the only reason why we were allowed to come along. Since VT was all the way down in our talent tee, we were very limited in which way we could spend points into other trees.
People look back at these talent trees with a ridiculous degree of romanticization and always forget about one thing: while the game allowed you to do all kinds of gimp builds, ultimately you needed to play with others and that mandates their acceptance of your practices. If you gimped you char to be "special snowflake player" the other players simply would not take you along. And that was that.


This is what caused Blizzard's most recent mantra, "Bring the player not the class." I have mixed feelings about it. But in the end I feel it shakes out for the good. Making a lot of those talents from the trees inherent to the class and spec makes the class/spec stronger. But yes there is some homogenization to it. The Artifact Weapon brings this back in a tempered way. Even though you'll eventually fill out the AW it brings back talent trees in a way that's both interesting and a goal to work toward. I for one hope they continue to expand the AW.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:48 pm

Ifalna wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
SPriest... spec.

You know, in the good old days of late BC / early Wrath, I never had a spec. I didn't need to have a spec because you could do this thing where you made your own by going down multiple trees at once (YMMV). 

The major disadvantage of the current system is that you can't blend specs.

No you could not. 
At least not if you expected to raid on a competitive level. SPriest was supposed to regen Mana/HP, our DPS was pitiful back in TBC (around half of what a sunwell rogue could do). 
Mana regen was the only reason why we were allowed to come along. Since VT was all the way down in our talent tee, we were very limited in which way we could spend points into other trees.
People look back at these talent trees with a ridiculous degree of romanticization and always forget about one thing: while the game allowed you to do all kinds of gimp builds, ultimately you needed to play with others and that mandates their acceptance of your practices. If you gimped you char to be "special snowflake player" the other players simply would not take you along. And that was that.

My Special Snowflake Warrior has never gone on a Raid and has never entered a PVP battle intentionally (Ah, the joys of your friends playing on a world PVP server!). It's a moot point now, because since around the middle of Wrath I haven't played him. 

There hasn't been any point, anything he could do a Paladin or DK did better. I believe as of right now that's still the case, although I haven't checked out the talent list for Arms yet.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:52 pm

tanker27 wrote:
This is what caused Blizzard's most recent mantra, "Bring the player not the class." I have mixed feelings about it. But in the end I feel it shakes out for the good. Making a lot of those talents from the trees inherent to the class and spec makes the class/spec stronger. But yes there is some homogenization to it. The Artifact Weapon brings this back in a tempered way. Even though you'll eventually fill out the AW it brings back talent trees in a way that's both interesting and a goal to work toward. I for one hope they continue to expand the AW.

"Bring the Player, not the Class" sounds good, but isn't good for the game. Aside from the homogenization inherent in that statement, it's a manifesto to devalue Alting. Which is one of the things that keeps players, well, playing.

On that note, remember targeting random people and casting Buffs? What happened to all those skills? Anyone know?
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:20 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
On that note, remember targeting random people and casting Buffs? What happened to all those skills? Anyone know?


Buffs are mostly gone. They are inherent to the class and you get them when grouped with a class that provides said buff. The Paladin, Ret to be specific, still has some personal buffs.

Does anyone remember the 5 min pally buffs of vanilla.....what a pain to keep up.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:42 am

tanker27 wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
On that note, remember targeting random people and casting Buffs? What happened to all those skills? Anyone know?


Buffs are mostly gone. They are inherent to the class and you get them when grouped with a class that provides said buff. The Paladin, Ret to be specific, still has some personal buffs.

Does anyone remember the 5 min pally buffs of vanilla.....what a pain to keep up.

Nope, but I remember hating Alliance players for being able to have pally buffs in raid. Shaman totems just weren't the same.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:15 am

Yeah but remember when Shaman were Horde only and they were the only ones that had Bloodlust! There's a reason that 95% of all the top guilds are Horde.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
On that note, remember targeting random people and casting Buffs? What happened to all those skills? Anyone know?

Gone, obviously, as most castable buffs were simplified in Cata/MoP and removed in Legion.

Now you have to focus on the mechanics of the fight more.

In Mythic raids in particular, failing mechanics is either instadeath or very punishing on the healers. Rather than micromanaging buffs for a few percent improvement, everyone focuses on mechanics to survive. This has the benefit of being different for each fight, so it feels less monotonous.

After that, they worry about strategic movement to optimize their play---current raids have a lot more movement than older content, so healers and DPS need to use their kit wisely over the course of the fight.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:48 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
"Bring the Player, not the Class" sounds good, but isn't good for the game. Aside from the homogenization inherent in that statement...
Being an altoholic, I strongly disagree with this assessment. The most homogenization I've seen has been within the same class (rogue, warlock, and maybe mage). In general, I think Blizzard have done a pretty good job of maintaining different "feels" for each class.

...it's a manifesto to devalue Alting. Which is one of the things that keeps players, well, playing.
And Blizzard seem fairly resistant to the idea of alts. Perhaps later patches will help catch-up, but they never seem to embrace the reality of alt-ing.

On that note, remember targeting random people and casting Buffs? What happened to all those skills? Anyone know?
Basically gone since Cata...maybe even Wrath? I remember casting greater blessings (which translated to a 60min buff on the entire raid) using reagents. Cata removed the "lesser" buffs and the reagent cost of greater ones, just allowing classes to blanket buff the entire group.

The only exception now is Ret paladins. We get three buffs that we can put on a single target.
On second thought, let's not go to TechReport. Tis a silly place.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:45 am

Blizzard is resistant to alts? I must have imagined how they basically eliminated the grind of leveling in multiple ways including not even making you collect gear. Get the heirloom on main and not worry about it. Likewise in Legion your alts will have bonuses that make gaining artifact power faster and/or reducing the research times associated with the class hall.

I already leveled an alt in Legion. Have a 110 Monk and a 110 Shaman. If you have a char at 100 already its only a day or too of hard grind to go from 100 to 110 once you know the routes to take for max XP. Monk was first 110, Shaman second. I haven't been on the Shaman in a couple days now as I just manage the order hall stuff via the Legion Companion app on my phone.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:44 am

tanker27 wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
On that note, remember targeting random people and casting Buffs? What happened to all those skills? Anyone know?


Buffs are mostly gone. They are inherent to the class and you get them when grouped with a class that provides said buff. The Paladin, Ret to be specific, still has some personal buffs.

Does anyone remember the 5 min pally buffs of vanilla.....what a pain to keep up.

I get it, but it's still funny to me. 

When I first started playing WOW seriously in late BC buffs were amazing to me. They did almost nothing and lasted so long I'd forget to re-apply them.

Coming from City of Heroes, most buffs lasted 15-30 seconds, and only a few lasted 4 minutes. Of course, those buffs were meaningful. 

Speed Boost was, what,  +175% to run speed and +50% to ability recharge? But only for 2 minutes.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:07 pm

WoW has always had short duration buffs too. Even current specs like Enhancement Shaman are about keeping self buffs applied. Boulderfist, Frostbrand, and Flametongue each apply damage to your weapon for a short duration that you much keep refreshed while also using your main damage dealing attacks like Stormstrike, Crash Lightning (which is an AoE attack that buffs other attacks with cleave damage in its area) and Lava Lash.
 
tanker27
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:13 am

Yeah they are "buffs"...but not the buffs the OP was talking about. These types of buffs are personal and integral to spec and rotation. Mostly used to get advantageous procs or to up damage.

The OP was asking about those big buffs that get cast: Gift of the Wild, Kings, Might, Amplify Magic, Divine Spirit, etc...etc...
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:57 am

Battle or commanding shout was on a 2 min CD for warriors... such an awkward amount of time - very annoying to keep up. Then DKs came along with their horn thing lasting for 5 min, even though warriors were still for 2, and DKs could cast it without rage. Lol. Really odd design choices back then.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:26 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
"Bring the Player, not the Class" sounds good, but isn't good for the game. Aside from the homogenization inherent in that statement, it's a manifesto to devalue Alting. Which is one of the things that keeps players, well, playing.

On that note, remember targeting random people and casting Buffs? What happened to all those skills? Anyone know?

It's actually VERY good for the game that some tools have been shared. W/o that, 10man H / M raids would not have been possible or popular.
I do agree on the point that Blizz way overshot the mark when it came to class hom. though.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:14 pm

So, what do you guys think of emerald nightmare?

As a raid I thought the design was great and the fights fairly unique and engaging enough. As a huge warcraft lore nerd though I hated this. It felt to me either lazy or just defeatist from a story telling perspective to just say "oh by the way this elder god and this brood mother dragon deeply engrossed in the canon are now bad so you should go in and just kill them for a shiny new pair of gloves."   Maybe I missed something and need to go back and read the war of the ancients, but last I checked, Cenarius and Ysera mopped the floor during the initial legion invasion, not sure how some blighted toothpick in her side was enough turn her evil and not even merit so much as a followup or post battle cinematic. The emerald nightmare raid was one that most of us have anticipated since the corrupted world dragons launched in vanilla, this just feels so anti-climatic a way to end these pivotal characters to the saga, especially after having waiting for so long a time to step into the emerald dream.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:04 pm

I don't Raid, but if what you're saying is true, that's the final nail in the coffin of the dreams all of the players had for lore expansion.

Remember when the Emerald Dream was going to be the first expansion?

At this point I've given up hope that WOW will be good for more than checking out all the new Quests and completing them. Hopefully Bobby Kotick will come out of his coma and demand World of Starcraft. I'd play that regardless of how horrible the story or game mechanics are.
 
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:36 am

Anovoca wrote:
So, what do you guys think of emerald nightmare?

As a raid I thought the design was great and the fights fairly unique and engaging enough. As a huge warcraft lore nerd though I hated this. It felt to me either lazy or just defeatist from a story telling perspective to just say "oh by the way this elder god and this brood mother dragon deeply engrossed in the canon are now bad so you should go in and just kill them for a shiny new pair of gloves."   Maybe I missed something and need to go back and read the war of the ancients, but last I checked, Cenarius and Ysera mopped the floor during the initial legion invasion, not sure how some blighted toothpick in her side was enough turn her evil and not even merit so much as a followup or post battle cinematic. The emerald nightmare raid was one that most of us have anticipated since the corrupted world dragons launched in vanilla, this just feels so anti-climatic a way to end these pivotal characters to the saga, especially after having waiting for so long a time to step into the emerald dream.



While disappointing Lore wise. I think they are laying the ground work for something bigger....larger....Research what Illygoth whispers to players. (and to that end research what the Shadow Priests Artifact Weapon whispers to the player.) There is more to it than just a casual meaningless wrap up. (I have to admit that it is a quick and poorly done wrap up)

For the first time in a long time I finally feel that the "story" is progressing. There are a ton of little 'hints' all around. There is one in particular that stands out, when you do the Fallen star quest. Once you complete and you start to hearth, you'll see some people run up. Cancel the hearth quickly and read what is being said. Velen says they are leaving Azeroth. By ship! This points toward Argus.

On the flip side old gods have been twisting and weaving in and out in Legion. Remember there is a whole other side to Azeroth we have yet to see. A vast sea on the other side of the map and is noted in the globes in Ulduar.

there are questions abound with clues:

Is Khadgar corrupted?
Is the boy king being played by an old god?
Did an old god have something to do with Magni being returned from diamond to being mortal?
etc...
etc...
Where is Wrathion??? We now know he has a brother whom is alive in Highmountain....what does he have to do with the overall story??


It certainly is an interesting time lore wise.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 am

tanker27 wrote:
Is Khadgar corrupted?

There is a hidden cinematic on Khadgar if you go spelunking in the caves under Karazahn that gives you a fairly good answer to that question. It is part of an achievment along with finding a scroll on Guldan in shadowmoon valley. If you aren't aware of this and need help finding it let me know I can go look up some more specifics for you. The Khadgar scroll is located where you had to quest for the Karazahn attunment key in TBC.
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Re: World Of Warcraft

Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:40 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
I don't Raid, but if what you're saying is true, that's the final nail in the coffin of the dreams all of the players had for lore expansion.

Remember when the Emerald Dream was going to be the first expansion?

At this point I've given up hope that WOW will be good for more than checking out all the new Quests and completing them. Hopefully Bobby Kotick will come out of his coma and demand World of Starcraft. I'd play that regardless of how horrible the story or game mechanics are.

I wouldn't say this isn't a good lore expansion, I just feel they tried to shift the narritive too sharply and caused undue casualties. I actually love a lot of the new storylines they are painting I was just sad to see some old ones killed off a bit too quickly without so much as a cutscene of Malfuion weeping or paying homage. I mean look at the wrap up for Arthus and he was arguably less relevant to Azeroth lore than Cenarius.

All-in-all though, I love how they painted the picture in Suramar and it really reminds me of some of my favorite fiction. I get a feeling like I'm playing out some of the better motifs from Steven Erikson's Malazan Series as a marine trying to root out the assassins guilds that control the city of Darujhistan through fear and political favor. There is so much story going on there they could have written a few novels on Suramar but instead they are letting it all play out through quests and putting you at the center. It is probably one of the best jobs WOW has ever done with storytelling through the quest/rep system.
Dying doesn't make this world dead to us
Breathing doesn't keep the flame alive in us
Dreaming doesn't make time less real for us
One life, one chance, all ephemeral

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