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Prospero424
Gerbil
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 5:03 pm
Location: Texas

Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:58 am

I'm Prospero424 on Steam and in TF2. When I play, it's in the late evening anywhere from 10PM-1AM.

I usually play on "TheVille.Org VIII - Team Fortress 2" (63.210.145.203:27015) because I get a phenomenal ping (usually less than 15; they're close to me) and they normally have good players.

Feel free to add me to friends; it'd be nice to have some fellow gerbils on my side and all the better to get the "With Friends Like These..." achievement with ;)
 
tanker27
Gerbil Khan
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:11 am

BUMP FOR RELEASE :wink:
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LowFreq
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:25 am

I play as "aztec447". If you see a fearless, bad-ass Heavy coming at ya, bring your Demomen coz it's probably me. 8^ ]
E6600 > Noctua NH-U12F | Abit IP35 Pro | Ballistix 2x1 PC2-8500 | Asus HD2900XT | Raptor 150 ADFD & WD1600YS | TrippLite SU1000XLa > Enermax Infiniti 720 | Samsung SH-S183L | CM Stacker 810 | NEC 20WMGX2 | AKG K701 | Logitech G5 | Saitek Eclipse | WinXP
 
derFunkenstein
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:53 am

how many maps does the PC version have? I read somewhere that the console release only has like 6-8 maps for TF2. But from what I've read, it looks really f'ing cool.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
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mongoosesRawesome
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Location: Maryland, USA

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:57 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
how many maps does the PC version have? I read somewhere that the console release only has like 6-8 maps for TF2. But from what I've read, it looks really f'ing cool.


There are 6 maps:

2Fort, a capture the flag map.
Dustbowl, a control point map.
Granary, a control point map.
Gravel Pit, a control point map.
Hydro, a territorial control map.
Well, a control point map
 
tanker27
Gerbil Khan
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:29 am

More maps are forth coming.
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SNM
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:44 am

Also, saying there are 6 maps is kinda a lie. Dust Bowl and Well both have multiple maps within them that you run in rounds.
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mongoosesRawesome
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:46 am

SNM wrote:
Also, saying there are 6 maps is kinda a lie. Dust Bowl and Well both have multiple maps within them that you run in rounds.


this is true. i find it actually kind of disorienting.
 
LowFreq
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:26 pm

SNM wrote:
Also, saying there are 6 maps is kinda a lie. Dust Bowl and Well both have multiple maps within them that you run in rounds.


Well, yes there are the Offense and Defense parts, but basically they're the same maps.

This is the one major gripe I have about TF2 at this time: the lack of variety/not enough different maps. Doing only 1 CTF and 5 CP scenarios gets boring after a couple dozen hours of gameplay.
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Krogoth
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:30 pm

Nice throwback to the original.

The lack of grenades is dishearting, but I can understand why they were removed. Grenades in TFC had far too many exploits.

It seems the ubercharger for the Medic was done to encourage usage of the class. The medic in TFC was only useful when you team actually worked together instead of being a chaotic mob.

BTW, TF2 pwns DNF!
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SNM
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:36 pm

Krogoth wrote:
It seems the ubercharger for the Medic was done to encourage usage of the class. The medic in TFC was only useful when you team actually worked together instead of being a chaotic mob.

Huh? The ubercharge is critical to the medic-heavy save-the-offense playbook. The capture games would all be seriously unbalanced without it -- defense would just go all-engy and build sentry guns at choke points, and there'd be no getting through even with the whole offense team on one point.
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mongoosesRawesome
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:03 pm

LowFreq wrote:
SNM wrote:
Also, saying there are 6 maps is kinda a lie. Dust Bowl and Well both have multiple maps within them that you run in rounds.


Well, yes there are the Offense and Defense parts, but basically they're the same maps.

This is the one major gripe I have about TF2 at this time: the lack of variety/not enough different maps. Doing only 1 CTF and 5 CP scenarios gets boring after a couple dozen hours of gameplay.


Isn't there more to it than just offense defense parts? I had the impression that the CP's actually move around.
 
SNM
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:38 pm

mongoosesRawesome wrote:
LowFreq wrote:
SNM wrote:
Also, saying there are 6 maps is kinda a lie. Dust Bowl and Well both have multiple maps within them that you run in rounds.


Well, yes there are the Offense and Defense parts, but basically they're the same maps.

This is the one major gripe I have about TF2 at this time: the lack of variety/not enough different maps. Doing only 1 CTF and 5 CP scenarios gets boring after a couple dozen hours of gameplay.


Isn't there more to it than just offense defense parts? I had the impression that the CP's actually move around.

They do. Dust Bowl has 3 completely separate maps that you play back and forth as offense and defense; the maps change depending on which side wins. Well is a gigantic map separated into 6 pieces (each with one control point), and each round is between a different set of 2 control points until one team captures all of them (or the server's map time limit kicks in).
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LowFreq
Gerbil
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Location: NY

Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:12 am

Yeah, Dustbowl is fun. I like Hydro too. Those are my 2 faves of the bunch. But I just want MORE maps! :o
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Prospero424
Gerbil
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Location: Texas

Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:49 am

More maps and game modes are coming from Valve, and third-party maps will flow once the SDK is released later this month (I think).

Two third-party maps are already floating around out there; Lazytown and Mach.
 
Pax-UX
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Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:59 am

I was disappointed when it got released without additional maps, I'd expected that there would be another 4 to 6 maps released once the game went live. Only hope more will come some.
"What luck for rulers, that men do not think"
 
Plinth
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Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:33 am

The lack of maps doesn't bother me. I usually end up playing only two or three regularly anyway.
 
roont
Graphmaster Gerbil
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Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:41 am

i know you can go console and type setinfo name *** but is there way to change it perminantly? it didnt even use my steam user name it used my email address name... i thought that was kinda strange
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mongoosesRawesome
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Location: Maryland, USA

Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:15 am

go to your steam profile (in community tab within steam) and change your steam_id to whatever you want.
 
Spotpuff
Gerbil
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:07 am

Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:16 pm

Since TF1 is my favourite FPS of all time, I'm disappointed with TF2.

There is definitely more work that needs to be done on balance. Sentries are too powerful, heavy classes don't have enough survivability (other than the heavy with a medic). A scout should not be able to two shot a soldier with his scattergun or 3 shot you with his bat from behind before you even know you're being attacked. It seems like there's too much luck as opposed to skill involved due to the low survivability. In TF1 if you were skilled with a soldier a scout could never take you out, nor an engineer with his... shotgun :(

It's still fun, but a bit of a let down coming from TF1 which had some of the best gameplay ever imo.
 
SNM
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Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:03 pm

Spotpuff wrote:
Since TF1 is my favourite FPS of all time, I'm disappointed with TF2.

There is definitely more work that needs to be done on balance. Sentries are too powerful, heavy classes don't have enough survivability (other than the heavy with a medic). A scout should not be able to two shot a soldier with his scattergun or 3 shot you with his bat from behind before you even know you're being attacked. It seems like there's too much luck as opposed to skill involved due to the low survivability. In TF1 if you were skilled with a soldier a scout could never take you out, nor an engineer with his... shotgun :(

It's still fun, but a bit of a let down coming from TF1 which had some of the best gameplay ever imo.

You clearly haven't played enough. Sentries are extremely vulnerable to an ubered heavy, and to demomen and soldiers if you just pop around a corner and let off a shot before ducking back. Besides that they have a limited range, so you can only use them effectively in chokepoints. Scouts can't take you out "before you know you're being attacked" unless you're already low on health -- and as it stands scouts are only good for 1) rushing, and 2) attacking isolated units. It's all about the team play -- scouts can't do anything against groups, and sentries are much weaker against multiple opponents.
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LowFreq
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:48 pm
Location: NY

Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:18 pm

SNM wrote:
You clearly haven't played enough. Sentries are extremely vulnerable to an ubered heavy, and to demomen and soldiers if you just pop around a corner and let off a shot before ducking back. Besides that they have a limited range, so you can only use them effectively in chokepoints. Scouts can't take you out "before you know you're being attacked" unless you're already low on health -- and as it stands scouts are only good for 1) rushing, and 2) attacking isolated units. It's all about the team play -- scouts can't do anything against groups, and sentries are much weaker against multiple opponents.


Exactly. Not to mention Spies can get to a sentry and quickly bork it. I think the Heavy though could use some adjustment on his firing pattern at medium to longer ranges, where the shots are too far spread out to be of great effect.

Valve did balance the Pyro so he has more hitting damage now, and the Demo has slightly less advantage. All good.
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SNM
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Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:14 am

LowFreq wrote:
I think the Heavy though could use some adjustment on his firing pattern at medium to longer ranges, where the shots are too far spread out to be of great effect.

That's true -- heavies seem next-to-useless without a good healer. I like to play them, but when doing so I generally just act like a portable sentry gun -- wade into close-quarters fighting with a medic and hope to blow them to bits before my health runs out. :lol:
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Pax-UX
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Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:39 am

You need a dispenser beside you when using a heavy, get infinite healing & ammo! Well not quite, but very useful for laying down covering fire on open spaces or stopping people come out passages. Obviously you're stuck to that point but it can be worth it while engineer sets up centuries (e.g. in the sewers on ctf_2fort).
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Spotpuff
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Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:44 am

SNM wrote:
You clearly haven't played enough. Sentries are extremely vulnerable to an ubered heavy, and to demomen and soldiers if you just pop around a corner and let off a shot before ducking back. Besides that they have a limited range, so you can only use them effectively in chokepoints. Scouts can't take you out "before you know you're being attacked" unless you're already low on health -- and as it stands scouts are only good for 1) rushing, and 2) attacking isolated units. It's all about the team play -- scouts can't do anything against groups, and sentries are much weaker against multiple opponents.


Everything is extremely vulnerable to an ubered heavy. Heavies are supposed to be for defense, though, so don't you think there's anything wrong with the fact that a defensive + support class can take out a sentry gun in the other team's base? The class roles don't seem to fit. I'm all for thinking outside the box, but a soldier as the primary "heavy" ranged class should be able to take out a sentry which currently isn't possible if the engineer is there (which they should be).

In terms of ducking around corners, sentries lock instantly now. So if you are going to try to take out a sentry without a medic and the engineer is next to his gun with a dispenser, you won't take it out. Engineer heals 1/2 the sentry hp per swing at a cost of like 20 metal or something. Meanwhile you are taking damage and without a medic you are going to die first. The other big change to sentries other than instant target lock is they completely block all damage to any targets behind them, so as an engineer you can now duck behind them and receive 0 damage from a rocket that hits the sentry (TF1 the rocket would damage you and push you away).

Not to mention, at certain choke points (say the ramp room) range is not an issue.

In terms of a spy sapping the sentry, again, put the sentry near a wall, throw a dispenser up, then camp it with your back to the wall. A spy can't sap it to death and you can shotgun him/repair your sentry if he tries, and with your back to a wall you won't get backstabbed.

Demomen are more of a problem at close range (long distance sticky bombs are not frequent enough to kill you or your sentry if you're repairing) but again certain places like the ramp room in 2fort are not conducive to the demo taking a sentry out from any of the possible entrances.

Yes, teamplay can counter a single sentry gun but then if you add another person on defense the teamplay is outnumbered again; my point is it shouldn't take 2 people to take out a sentry gun.

And yes if you get shot point blank by the scattergun by a scout, you will go down in 2 hits. Baseball bat is about 3-4 swings or less if they get crits, not to mention past 2 or 3 hits you can't do much against them with the rocket launcher without hurting yourself.

In general, not just with the scout, the lethality of all classes has been increased especially at close range. The scattergun is more brutal than the shotgun but they're both capable of taking out the heavier classes in a few shots, which IMO doesn't seem very balanced.
 
LowFreq
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Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:46 am

Spotpuff wrote:

In terms of a spy sapping the sentry, again, put the sentry near a wall, throw a dispenser up, then camp it with your back to the wall. A spy can't sap it to death and you can shotgun him/repair your sentry if he tries, and with your back to a wall you won't get backstabbed.



I've done that in ctf-mach2 and had 23 sentry kills in one match. lol The opponents tried Soldiers, Demos, Scouts and Spies, but the only thing that took me out was an ubered Heavy, and even then they had a hard time about it. But the uber outlasted just enough whatever healing I could do on the sentry.
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Spotpuff
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Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:14 am

LowFreq wrote:
I've done that in ctf-mach2 and had 23 sentry kills in one match. lol The opponents tried Soldiers, Demos, Scouts and Spies, but the only thing that took me out was an ubered Heavy, and even then they had a hard time about it. But the uber outlasted just enough whatever healing I could do on the sentry.


I've done the same, and like I said, it leads me to believe sentries are overpowered.

Yes, an ubered heavy can take it down, but if your team lets a heavy with a medic get into your base, then they let it happen. Under normal conditions (sniper, pyro, soldier, scout running around) a heavy and medic should not make it to your base.

When I talked about imbalance, I meant that:
1. The primary ranged offensive class, the soldier, cannot solo a well placed sentry gun especially when the engineer is present. In fact if the engineer is present, the soldier cannot kill the sentry at all if you have a dispenser nearby to recharge your metal supply.

2. It should not take 2 people to take out the sentry gun, as this is a number imbalance. If teams are even, then it is reasonable to expect the sentry will be paired with another support class, say a soldier or a pyro on defense in the ramp room. This means not only do the 2 people have to take out the sentry, they have to take out that other defensive person as well. If that defensive person is stationed slightly further out than the sentry, they can force a medic/heavy or medic/soldier pair to go uber early, thus negating their effectiveness against the sentry gun.

Evidently I need to play more than 20 hours in 3 days though, since ubered heavy is win.
 
mikehodges2
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Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:56 am

They had better release Avanti soon..that was my fav map by far. When that comes out, i'll probably bite the bullet and buy the game :)
 
LowFreq
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Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:10 am

Yeah, there's still some balance issues to be worked out IMO, Spotpuff. It's hard to get everything exactly perfect tho' - so many variables.
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Spotpuff
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Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:13 am

The best thing about the original TF was that it was so fine tuned and balanced.

The removal of grenades (not sure why that was done... they made the game a lot more fun) and some of the other changes need to be tweaked.

For example, to fix the sentry issue, they should just make the sentry not block splash damage, so a soldier's rockets can kill the engineer if he stays behind it to repair it. Shotgun shells/bullets still won't hurt him, but a soldier should be able to take a sentry gun out on his own.

Re: survivability, soldier health should be increased a bit I feel and some weapons need their damage lowered.

Scattergun damage: http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Scattergun
average is 95 damage per shot point blank, so I'd still argue they can kill a soldier (with their speed they can catch you) before you can respond, basically 2 shots and you're dead (200 max hp for soldier). Their swing speed for melee is higher than normal as well IIRC.
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