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Hi fellow Gerbils! My mother is seeking to get her own laptop and not use her work one. So I figured I slim ultrabook would be appropriate. She likes the Asus Zenbook UX305 Spec wise seems more than enough for email, ms office suite and everyday tasks. She has the majority of her data on either flash drives or an external hd, so the limited internal space is not of concern. She does like to use the laptop in sunlight and from the reviews I have read the screen should be more than bright. Anyone have first hand experience with similar devices? She does have a Samsung tablet that she also uses quite often so a Surface Pro 3 crossed my mind. Budget is $1000. Thanks in advance.

I like the 13.3" IPS 1080p screen in the Asus Zenbooks. I have the UX32VD.
If I were specifying my ideal ultrabook, it would probably have a Skylake Core i7-6650U or i7-6560U CPU, without any discrete GPU, but those are probably outside your budget range.

How slow is the Core M processor?

A Core M is slightly slower than an i3/i5 U-series--same silicon clocked down for ultra high efficiency. It'll struggle with demanding tasks, but will handle basic stuff fine and is vastly superior to an Atom.

Thanks. I wouldn't wish an Atom on my worst enemy...

whm1974 wrote:

Thanks. I wouldn't wish an Atom on my worst enemy...

Baytrail (and beyond) Atoms are not as bad as the older ones. It has come a long way.

whm1974 wrote:

How slow is the Core M processor?

Core M performance is excellent for general purpose computing.

I bought a Core M ultrabook for the following reasons:

- low weight
- thin
- silent (no fan)
- CPU power

You may wonder why I mentioned CPU power. I can run all my core apps (Office/browser/communication/remote tools) under OS X and then duplicate that by running Windows 10 Pro in a VM. I can even throw in Photoshop CC and Lightroom CC under OS X. My ultrabook is no render box but Core M has more than enough power for the basics.

GeForce6200's Mom will be very happy with her Core M ultrabook.

Thanks. I was thinking that the Core M was halfway between an Atom and an i3.

I recently got a Zenbook UX305 with the Core M (Broadwell) CPU. I don't do anything intense with it, mind you, but for everyday computing it handles everything with ease. I can't speak for the long-term durability of the Zenbook, of course, but it appears to be a solid piece of kit. If you keep an eye out, the Microsoft Store often has them for $599. The Core M variety has been $599 for some time there, and around Black Friday the Skylake version was also down to $599. We may see them that low again around Christmas, if they are not already.

We introduced (demoed) an Asus UX305 laptop into the office pool and people really really liked them (way more than the Yogas, Thinkpads, and Dell ultrabooks). Now we have five more.

The only drawback we've ever encountered is that you need a couple of adapters
1. HDMI is microHDMI which NOBODY ON THE PLANET USES. Adapters to normal HDMI are only a few bucks
2. Wired ethernet is a USB dongle

On the plus side it has 3x USB and even a card-reader, the battery lasts a good while, the screen is decent and the keyboard and clickpad are usable despite the limited travel. Performance is fine for its class and only really shows a lack of power if you fire up something 3D. That said, unless you mum is playing WoW or something I don't think you're looking for gaming laptops.

HP Stream 11 or 13.

cjcerny wrote:

HP Stream 11 or 13.

I tried a Stream 11, and even though I wanted to like it, the interrupt requests the wi-fi card generated made it USELESS for watching any video, whether Internet or LAN based. It was just horrible, unfortunately...so back to Wal Mart it went. Mine may have been a one-off thing, but something to keep in mind.

I feel like the CEO of MomCorp can afford her own laptop.

Pagey wrote:

cjcerny wrote:

HP Stream 11 or 13.

I tried a Stream 11, and even though I wanted to like it, the interrupt requests the wi-fi card generated made it USELESS for watching any video, whether Internet or LAN based. It was just horrible, unfortunately...so back to Wal Mart it went. Mine may have been a one-off thing, but something to keep in mind.

Hmm... my summer work (a high school district) deployed a bunch of 11's and 13's last summer, and they've been OK, from what I heard. Though I've seen plenty of issues with power management being enabled on Realtek cards - you get constant drops with Xirrus APs, for one.

The lenovo Yoga 3 Pro w 512 GB SSD is currently $849 with coupon USPYG3US1210.

I have the 256 GB version, and love it. The IPS screen is especially lovely, with pleasing color reproduction (96% sRGB) and is especially sharp at 3200x1800. I was a skeptic before - there was no way someone could tell the difference between 1080p and 1800p @ 13.3", I'd say, but now I've seen the light. Every other screen looks like it has visible dot spacing now. That's not to say it's perfect - it's a RGBW matrix and non-IGZO, so it sucks up a bit more power and is not quite as sharp as a true RGB 1800p screen would be, but it's still gorgeous.

The convertible modes on the y3p are really nice, too - I use it a lot to watch movies on the couch in tent mode.

The keyboard is probably the weakest part of the laptop, but since I came off a thinkpad and am using a chery MX red mechanical on my desktop, I might have high standards. The key action is quite shallow, but I've found I can type with good wpm on it if I concentrate on not 'mushing' my keystrokes. It would be a deal killer if your mom does a lot of typing.

Getting about 7 hrs of battery life with video playback; 7.5-8 of word processing (est.). Anything CPU intensive will eat up the battery like mad, though.

Voldenuit wrote:

but since I came off a thinkpad and am using a chery MX red mechanical on my desktop, I might have high standards.

You don't. All you have is a preference.

Milo Burke wrote:

I feel like the CEO of MomCorp can afford her own laptop.

Laptops are so 20th century. For the 31st century matriarch who already has it all, only an ULTRAbook or greater will do.

End User wrote:

You don't. All you have is a preference.

Someone get this guy 20cc's of holiday cheer, stat!

ludi wrote:

End User wrote:

You don't. All you have is a preference.

Someone get this guy 20cc's of holiday cheer, stat!

Will that be enough to make his heart grow three sizes?

Voldenuit wrote:

ludi wrote:

End User wrote:

You don't. All you have is a preference.

Someone get this guy 20cc's of holiday cheer, stat!

Will that be enough to make his heart grow three sizes?

I'm a jolly fellow unless I have to use a keyboard with the key travel of the Burj Khalifa.

End User wrote:

I'm a jolly fellow unless I have to use a keyboard with the key travel of the Burj Khalifa.

Ahh, so you prefer scissor switches, or even the "Chiclet" style keyboards that have become popular on laptops lately? To each their own I guess. A well-made scissor switch 'board is tolerable, but I much prefer a full-size, full-travel mechanical. I took a Rosewill RK-9000 to work, to use with my company-issued MacBook Pro.

just brew it! wrote:

or even the "Chiclet" style keyboards that have become popular on laptops lately?

I do like the keyboard on my 2015 MacBook. To push it even further I like touch typing on the virtual keyboard of my iPad Pro.

We have someone at work who likes the old school style keyboard. When I troubleshoot their workstation I feel as if my fingers are scaling Mount Everest.

The MacBook Pro keyboard would be tolerable if the layout was a little more sane. Given that I spend a lot of time in Linux VMs, I really need something that's closer to the standard, as opposed to Apple's "we know what's best for you" take.

just brew it! wrote:

The MacBook Pro keyboard would be tolerable if the layout was a little more sane. Given that I spend a lot of time in Linux VMs, I really need something that's closer to the standard, as opposed to Apple's "we know what's best for you" take.

I've been using Apple keyboards with Windows/Ubuntu for well over a decade so I had to go look at an image of a Rosewill RK-9000. Comparing the RK-9000 to both the Apple keyboard connected to my Ubuntu PC and to that of the keyboard of my work supplied MacBook Pro I see that they are very similar but there are (obviously) a few differences. To which are you referring to?

End User wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

or even the "Chiclet" style keyboards that have become popular on laptops lately?

I do like the keyboard on my 2015 MacBook. To push it even further I like touch typing on the virtual keyboard of my iPad Pro.

We have someone at work who likes the old school style keyboard. When I troubleshoot their workstation I feel as if my fingers are scaling Mount Everest.

Are you talking about the old buckling spring keyboards? The old IBM M keyboards had a high actuation force and travel, I find them tiring to use.

However, modern mechanical keyboards (such as, but not limited to the Cherry MX switches) have a range of actuation force and tactile bump to suit the user. Even on my 'bumpless' Reds, I find the tactile feedback on them superior to most dome keyboards, and much, much better than the cheap dome keyboards.

The thinkpad keyboards meanwhile have been widely acknowledged as some of the best laptop keyboards in the business, and for good reason. Good feedback, well shaped keys, and (usually) without much flex in the middle. While some may disagree, I feel that their quality has carried over even onto the newer, chiclet style keyboards on modern Thinkpads.

Apple's macbook keyboards are also highly regarded, some actually prefer them to the thinkpad keyboards.

Into this realm of high expectations, the keyboard on the Yoga 3 Pro falls short. Due to the thinness of the laptop, the keystroke is quite shallow, although I've read reviews that it is actually a deeper stroke than is average for ultrabooks. The keys are quite flat without much feedback for key separation, and even with the traditional nubs for the home keys, I find it easy to drift if I'm not paying attention. There also isn't much feedback when you've actuated a key, I can only really tell if a letter appears on my screen or if I bottom out on the key. The layout is quite good*, though, and it is backlit, and I also haven't found any "unresponsive" keys. It's definitely not the worst keyboard in the business (I'm looking at you, acer), and I actually found it better than the piss-poor keyboard in my old work Dell 4600 (it suffered from shallow stroke, sag in the middle and no feedback), but I also wouldn't want to type the Great American Novel on it. Compared to the keyboard in the macbook air, the MBA has more travel and more feedback.

* It has the oddity of missing the Function key row, a decision that was made to improve hand-holdability in tablet mode. I don't miss the missing row, as it's not hard to hit Fn-Alt-F4 to close programs. What I *do* miss however is dedicated 'Home' and 'End' keys, it's a bit awkward to hit the Fn-key combbinations from opposite ends of the keyboard.

End User wrote:

I've been using Apple keyboards with Windows/Ubuntu for well over a decade so I had to go look at an image of a Rosewill RK-9000. Comparing the RK-9000 to both the Apple keyboard connected to my Ubuntu PC and to that of the keyboard of my work supplied MacBook Pro I see that they are very similar but there are (obviously) a few differences. To which are you referring to?

OK, three pet peeves with the Mac keyboard:

1. I find the lack of a Right Control key to be infuriating. This is the default Host key for VirtualBox, and I've been using VirtualBox this way for many years so that's how my muscle memory wants to do it. In order for VirtualBox to be usable with the Mac keyboard I've set the Host key to be Right Alt instead. But this means that when I switch back to the PC-style keyboard (because I've got the Rosewill plugged in), the Host key is in the wrong place. To (somewhat) reduce the confusion, I've remapped the Host key on all the non-Apple systems I use as well, so at least it is always a consistent location whenever I'm on a "normal" keyboard. Needing to modify the way I do things on non-Apple systems to accommodate Apple's keyboard design is brain dead!

2. To simulate a right-click when using the Mac keyboard and trackpad, you need to hold Right Alt while simultaneously clicking the trackpad. This seems to have been designed for lefties; it's rather awkward if you're right-handed.

3. Lack of Insert/Delete/Home/End/PageUp/PageDown keys. Yes, I know you can simulate these with various combinations of modifier/arrow keys. This amounts to more finger gymnastics (see #2), and I get the combinations wrong half the time, which reduces my productivity when I'm using the Mac keyboard.

Voldenuit wrote:

End User wrote:

We have someone at work who likes the old school style keyboard. When I troubleshoot their workstation I feel as if my fingers are scaling Mount Everest.

Are you talking about the old buckling spring keyboards? The old IBM M keyboards had a high actuation force and travel, I find them tiring to use.

The main reason I ditched my Unicomps (Model M clones) was that *one* of them had very high actuation force, while the other did not. I had one at home and one at work; the inconsistency of actuation force really bugged me. I made more typing errors when switching from the one with lower actuation force to the stiffer one, and bottomed the keys out hard when switching back the other way. My solution was to buy twin RK-9000s, which I continue to use to this day.

Voldenuit wrote:

However, modern mechanical keyboards (such as, but not limited to the Cherry MX switches) have a range of actuation force and tactile bump to suit the user. Even on my 'bumpless' Reds, I find the tactile feedback on them superior to most dome keyboards, and much, much better than the cheap dome keyboards.

Only if you define "hard stop when you bottom out" to be equivalent to "tactile feedback". IMO tactile feedback really needs to occur at (or at least very close to) the point of the keystroke where the key actually registers. I do not consider MX Red/Black to be "tactile" at all; while I do understand the attraction of a linear switch for gaming, I find them to be non-ideal for typing.

FWIW my current preference is MX Blue with the thinner gauge O-rings (tactile/audible feedback with a little cushioning if you bottom out). Lower (and more consistent) actuation force than Model M style keyboards, key travel less than a Model M but more than scissor/chiclet.

just brew it! wrote:

Voldenuit wrote:

However, modern mechanical keyboards (such as, but not limited to the Cherry MX switches) have a range of actuation force and tactile bump to suit the user. Even on my 'bumpless' Reds, I find the tactile feedback on them superior to most dome keyboards, and much, much better than the cheap dome keyboards.

Only if you define "hard stop when you bottom out" to be equivalent to "tactile feedback". IMO tactile feedback really needs to occur at (or at least very close to) the point of the keystroke where the key actually registers. I do not consider MX Red/Black to be "tactile" at all; while I do understand the attraction of a linear switch for gaming, I find them to be non-ideal for typing.

FWIW my current preference is MX Blue with the thinner gauge O-rings (tactile/audible feedback with a little cushioning if you bottom out). Lower (and more consistent) actuation force than Model M style keyboards, key travel less than a Model M but more than scissor/chiclet.

I find I don't actually bottom out on the keys with my Red all the time, I like that I am able to glide my fingers over the keyboard to type, it's less work, and the subtle cup on the keycaps positions my fingers over them, something that is lacking on the Y3P (and most chiclets that I've used, although I strangely had no problem with the wife's X230T). I guess I'm not getting the feedback of the 'bump', unlike on Blues and Browns, but a combination of the noise, smooth key travel and consistent actuation force is enough to let me know that the key I'm pressing is registering. Again, something that is missing on the Y3P.

Yes, the "scooped" keycaps are another reason I vastly prefer full-height keys to "chiclet" style. I've never been particularly adept at sensing "home" position via the little bumps on the 'F' and 'J' keys (probably because I don't touch-type the "correct" way), but the contoured keycaps help keep my hands in the right place because I immediately sense whether I've hit each key dead-center or not.

I guess the MacBook keys do have a very subtle contour to them? Nowhere near enough to suit me though.

Bottom line is, keyboard preference is a very personal thing. I think many of us who came of (geek) age during the original Apple II and/or IBM PC era prefer full-travel mechanicals with the "scooped" style of keycap in part because that's what we grew up with.

I'm slowly getting used to my zbook's keyboard. Good, but somewhat shallow. And then I had to deal with a friend's Surface 3 (non-pro, the Atom one) with keyboard cover - how does anyone actually get work done on those awkward, really shallow things? Never thought about key contours too much, though I definitely use the f and j bumps.

Regardless, I'll take my blue K70 over a laptop keyboard any day of the week. Although sometimes I question the point of a desktop, nice keyboard, and huge monitor since I'm getting by just fine with only my laptop at my parents' house for break. Granted, I'm not getting any real work done at the moment.

localhostrulez wrote:

Regardless, I'll take my blue K70 over a laptop keyboard any day of the week. Although sometimes I question the point of a desktop, nice keyboard, and huge monitor since I'm getting by just fine with only my laptop at my parents' house for break. Granted, I'm not getting any real work done at the moment.

New employer offered me a 4K monitor to connect to my MacBook, and I took them up on that. Overall I'd say it has improved my productivity, and is less "fiddly" than dual monitors, especially when dealing with VMs. I wish KDE (in my Linux VMs) was better at dealing with high DPI displays though.